Hand Plane Question and Hartville Tool

[Matthew Poeller]

I was wondering if someone could give me some good advice. This is a two fold question, maybe threefold or fourfold by the time I am done.

I have amassed a number of handplanes in various states of disrepair. Everytime I am drive by and estate sale or garage sale I go in looking for hand tools.

I started to work on them before I bought "The Handplane Book" and never really seemed to get it right. Since I bought the book I have not had time to get down to mess with them.

So here goes the questions:
1. Is "The Handplane Book" one of the best sources for refurbing, tuning and understanding planes? Is there a better resource out there?
2. Should I purchase a couple new ones so I know how they SHOULD work? If so, are Hartville Planes (inexpensive) a good starting place?
3. Is there a compreshesive resource for identifying planes, their worth and what you can do to them without de-valueing them? I do not want to refurb one only to find out I dropped the value from $1K to $100. At that point I would sell it to someone who would appreciate more than me.

Thank you in advance.

Matt Poeller

[Zahid Naqvi]

Ok I'll take the first crack.

1. I have read that book, and in my opinion there are better. I think the Internet is the best resource for old tool refurb. Do a search here for hand plane refurbish restore etc. and you will see several threads. There is a guy who goes by the name rarebear on woodnet, he has a very detailed plane refurb procedure on his website (https://home.comcast.net/~stanleyplanes/). There are other sources too.

2. If all you want is to try out a well tuned plane there is no need to buy one. Find a creeker who lives near enough and willing to let you try his/her planes. Or you might want to visit a local woodcraft or rockler they might have some LN planes for demo, I know LN does demo days around the country look at their schedule.

3. You must be familiar with Patrick's site (http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0a.html). It is considered by many as the authentic resource for Stanley plane identification and typing. Other than that if you have a specific plane you are concerned about, just post a picture and some details here (before you clean it) and you will get an answer shortly.

[Hank Knight]

Matthew,

I agree completely with Zahid. I would add two things:

(1) If you want to purchase a plane to get a feel for how thay "should" work, don't buy a cheap one. Cheap modern planes do not work "out of the box" and many, perhaps most, can't be made to work properly at all. The only thing an inexpensive plane will do for you will be to convince you that planes are the work of the devil and are put on earth to frustrate mankind. After trying to use one, you may never want to pick up a plane again. If you decide to purchase a new plane, spend the money and buy a high end one, like a Lee Valley or a Lie-Nielsen. They are expensive, but they come very close to working properly "out of the box" and will give you an immediate understanding of how a good plane should perform. Plus you will have a quality tool that will last you a lifetime.

(2) Patrick Leach's "Blood and Gore" site has probably the best discussion of the various Stanley planes around, but it doesn't tell you how to value them. There are books written on "current" value of traditional tools, but the books are expensive and tend to overvalue many items. The best way to get a "ballpark" idea of what your planes are worth is to check them out on eBay to see what they fetch on the market. You can also look at what tool dealers are selling them for online. Rarebear, that Zahid mentioned in his post, sells planes at very reasonable prices and can give you an idea of what yours are worth. You can also check out other dealers like Bob Kaune's site at:
http://www.antique-used-tools.com/
or The Best Things at:
http://www.thebestthings.com/

Hank

[Danny Thompson]

I would add that Patrick Leach also sells vintage planes and other vintage woodworking tools, so if you sign up for his monthly for sale list--http://www.supertool.com/oldtools.htm--you will have a reference for current values.

Another option is to post descriptions and pix of your purchases here. Many of the "rub two stones together" types on this site would like nothing more than to help with the detective work and share their expertise with you.

[John Dykes]

Great advice thus far... and agreed wholeheartedly.

From my limited experience, rehabbing planes is easy - and can be learned quickly. Bust the rust, flatten sole\frog if needed, file a leading edge bevel, ensure good mating surfaces, etc, etc. Easy. Just do it. Take it slow - do a good job. I’m not a collector; I’m sure I devalued my planes in some way (by swapping blades at least!). Making money on planes isn’t my passion.

However, the key to using a plane (for me) and "refurbishing" planes that actually work - is learning to sharpen them… sharpen them well - and with confidence. This requires some... "touch” that is borne from considerable practice.

I am a "research-aholic" by necessity. Being an untalented, poor married man with 2 kids and a dog, I agonize over every purchase and approach as I want to "buy once" and \ or learn the "right way." It is almost paralyzing...

Years ago, I had the romantic notion of hand tools. I would hear of these talented folks who could make fluffy shavings - and how peaceful and "right" it was. That planes can slice fibers for a smooth surface, that you use planes to remove mill marks, that planes don’t scratch wood as a sander does… I wanted that; and committed myself to that notion.

I researched, I read, I watched, I re-read, I toiled, I shopped, I agonized... And went with the common advice - buy LN or LV. I try to buy the best - once; so I bought an iron #4 LN (I just learned a few weeks ago why I should have bought bronze (forgive me, I'm a recent "wrec" convert)).

When folks say, “LNs work right out of the box” – or are most likely to work right out of the box – that, for me, needed further clarification - and I needed further instruction. As my posting title indicates, I wasn't smart enough, or talented enough, or experienced enough "out of my box!" IF you know how planes work, IF you’ve used a plane before, IF you understand the pieces\parts, IF you understand what sharp is – yes, LNs will work pretty quickly out of the box. If, you, like me, have never touched a plane before, it might as well be a Buck Brothers from Home Depot.

I pulled my LN out of the box (Beautiful, it must work great!!) and I made dust, and gouges, and deep scores, and uncontrolled skewed cuts I could barely push over the wood. I tried, and I tried, but my $250 LN #4 smoother didn’t work right out of the box. Using planes – sucked! It was supposed to work right out of the box - it must be a piece of shit, or I don’t have this natural ability of others. So I gave up, and put my LN back in the dang box – for years. (Did I mention I didn’t own any sharpening method – in or out of a box??)

Point being – buying a plane, I don’t care if it’s a Home Depot or Norris, won’t do you any good unless you know it’s tuned, kinda know how it works, and it's SHARP. (Again, creative license.)

Fast forward a few years – I again get this urge for hand tools. I try the LN – it’s still “broken.” I try a different approach – people talk about old Stanleys. So I buy a Type 15 #7 from thebestthings.com. To me, this old plane was beautiful – who used it, where, on what? Now it’s mine. Can the ghost of its true master relay a thousandth of his skill to me? (“Gone with the Wind” was on last night…)

Rats – the blade is dull. This stupid Stanley won’t work out of the box either…

I'm smart enough to realize that it needs to be sharpened. Hmmm – how does this blade come out so I can sharpen it? What do all these levers, knobs, and screws do anyway?? I never wanted to touch (read: screw up) any of the settings “right out of the box” on my LN.

Next chapter: enter “Scary Sharp” (Not my current method however. I’ll let Marcus, who has a much better touch than I, school you in that). In a matter of minutes, I have a very sharp blade – my first. J Let’s see, how did this blade go in there again?? Bevel up? Down?? Rats!! Hmm seems like an awfully deep cut – wonder if I can back that blade out? Hmmm – I put in the blade a little crooked – how can I get it straight? Ok – I have a hair of a blade out, and it seems straight across the bottom – I’ll try to make a cut…

Holy smokes!!! A long, fluffy, full width shaving!! ½ hour later I’m standing in several inches of walnut and poplar shavings. Look Mom, I'm a woodworker! No, I'm a CRAFTSMAN - I'm using a PLANE!

Not sure if I addressed or answered anything to be honest. So, in short – I’d say don’t buy a LN (but again, most folks are smarter than I am) - you've already got plenty of great planes! Use the guidance of those here – and what you’ve been given. Rehab what you’ve got. I was scared to mess with my LN – to turn knobs, levers, and screws. It was supposed to be perfect out of the box; and at $250 I expect it to be! The Stanley I realized I had to futz with. I took it apart, cleaned it, oiled it, sharpened it… Got my hands in the guts. Learned it.

But, above all, LEARN TO SHARPEN. Try it, fail. Try it again, improve. Try it again, succeed. David Charlesworth DVDs helped me more than I can put in words in regards to sharpening and plane usage.

But you’re in the right place – another lesson I just learned in the last few weeks. Lurking is one thing – actively participating is another (be it questions, answers, or blind stumbling). If you want advice of the sages and craftsman, post to this group.

If you want the advice of a hack stumbling in the dark, ask me. I can’t tell you what’s right, only where I’ve been...

Good luck –

jbd in Denver

* For the record, my iron #4 LN works to perfection now (or I think it does! lol), as do my Stanleys (with Hock blades\breakers). I like the using the old Stanleys that I’ve pulled from a rusty grave more than using the LN (just for the mystique \ nostalgia of it). However, if someone offered me a complete set of LNs or a complete set of Stanley’s – I’d opt for the LNs every time. I’m a misty eyed dreamer yes, but I’m not a fool...

Well....

-j

[John Dykes]

By the way...

What are you not getting right?

I'm sure it's a path that I've trod.

- jbd

[Mike Cutler]

That post is priceless John. Very well written.

As someone that has espoused the "right out of the box" quality of a LN. I stand corrected.
Our definitions of "right out of the box" are a little different. I like yours, and I'll be sure to ammend my recomendation a little.;)

[JayStPeter]

So here goes the questions:
1. Is "The Handplane Book" one of the best sources for refurbing, tuning and understanding planes? Is there a better resource out there?
2. Should I purchase a couple new ones so I know how they SHOULD work? If so, are Hartville Planes (inexpensive) a good starting place?
3. Is there a compreshesive resource for identifying planes, their worth and what you can do to them without de-valueing them? I do not want to refurb one only to find out I dropped the value from $1K to $100. At that point I would sell it to someone who would appreciate more than me.


1. The web is probably the best resource, but I'm currently evaluating a DVD so I'll let you know. I think sometimes you need to see something to be able to duplicate it. Reading on the web, magazines, and books got me to a point. Now I'm in the school of hard knocks phase. What works on one type of wood or grain pattern doesn't universally work.
2. Yes, you should. Unlike John, the first used handplane I tried to use was jacked up. No amount of sharpening made it work better. In fact, now that I've rehabbed a few old planes and have made a couple that didn't work well work, that one is still a piece of junk. I spent many hours trying to tune that turd thinking it was me and that handplanes suck. I'm pretty sure I know what's wrong with it and could make it work OK now with some serious work, but I already have something nicer working. It was my grandfathers, so I'll try again someday.
The cheap new planes, including the ones you mentioned, won't work well out of the box and will require at least as much work as the old planes you already own. The LV and LN planes will work well out of the box with just minor sharpening. You can also track down some guys who sell used Stanleys that they have already done the refurbishing on and are ready to go.
My suggestion would be to start with a block plane, either LV LA block or LN 60.5. I think block planes are easier to get working than bench planes because they are smaller and easier to adjust. Especially the nicer new ones that have nice tight adjustment mechanisms. Once you learn what needs to happen to make nice shavings you can figure out how to make your sloppy older adjustment mechanisms do the same thing :cool:.
As John stated, you will not be able to use handplanes at all if you can't sharpen them. So, read about sharpening and get yourself setup for that before you do anything.
3. It's pretty doubtful that you have planes worth enough to avoid using. Just in case, post a picture of the planes you've got here and people will be able to tell you if any are collectable.

[Brian Kent]

Great post, John.

You just told the story of a lot of us trying out hand planes. I didn't start out with a LN, but with a "middle-size" Buck Brothers and a "little" Buck Brothers plane from Home Depot. I lusted after the "large" and "extra large" ones :rolleyes: (didn't know what those names meant - block, smoother, jack) but couldn't afford those big expensive planes.

I bought a "sharpening stone" set from Harbor Freight and rubbed (ground / scraped / hacked) the blades on the stones for a few seconds and put them back into the planes. I went for a "thin" shaving (started with the blade sticking out of the plane about 1/4"). Then I carved deep grooves and gouges into the old oak floor I was "refinishing". Took a lot of extra sanding to smooth those out:eek:.

I couldn't figure out why they didn't come with directions.:confused:

When I realized that maybe part of the problem was quality, I went for broke ($39) and bought an Anant 4-1/2. It only took about 4 hours of "fettling" on about $7 worth of sandpaper to get it flat. After discovering sawmill creek and a lot of online resources on fettling and sharpening, I had a usable plane.

Even though my one plane (Buck Brothers in the recycle bin) was barely adequate, I was hooked. I kept trying. Kept on learning to sharpen. Found a couple of old Stanleys on E-bay and got one as a gift. It was starting to pay off.

Now my users are the old Stanleys, some rosewood Mujingfangs, one LN block plane, and a Lee Valley Low Angle jack. Finally, planing is better than sanding, and they feel so good as I work. They are quieter than a sander so I can use them earlier in the morning without waking anybody up. They are good exercise instead of irritating vibration.

And most of all - coffee tastes much better with wood shavings than with sawdust:D!

[Dave Anderson NH]

In response to John Dykes' priceless post, I'll reitereate my oft stated stance on any hand tool. SEEK A MENTOR. Whether you are a power tool junkie who wants to learn hand tools, a woodworker wannabee, or a beginner at our wonderful obsession, take the time to get some help. If you are here, you have net access and the resources both on this website and on the net in general to find a club, guild, or collectors association. In any of these you can find someone willing to offer advice, a private session, or even access to classes. Going it alone can work, but it will cause you immense frustration and will seriously retard your progress. At the very least read some of the great web based resources on plane tuning. Reemember, this is supposed to be fun, not an irritating curse evoking exercise in futility. John's post expresses clearly the reasons you need a mentor. The quote from the quality guru Deming makes it very clear, "You don't know what you don't know."

[Matthew Poeller]

Thank you for all the great replies.

John, that, as poeple have stated, was priceless. I loved it. It looks as though as I should have known I stumbled into a nest of people that know more than I do and there is not really an "easy" answer. It reminds me of times when people ask me engineering questions and about half way through I realize they are lost. I have been a lurker since the Badger Pond (I think there are still a few around that remember Badger Pond well, besides Keith Outten) and yes, you are right asking is the best way. It seems as though I always search before I ask and many times the question has already been answered.

Another theme in everyone's replies was sharpening. Early in my woodworking days I realized that I liked my chisels razor sharp so I set myself up with a set of Japanese water stones and do really good with those. The plane blades are sharp before they go into the plane, it just seems that they are not so sharp once they are in there! I will caveat that last statement with my next paragraph though.

The first plane that I tried to refurb, and did a pretty good job at I think (maybe) worked fine for about the first 10 minutes or so. It was making wonderful fluffy shavings on the edge of a piece of oak. Then I went to the face, it did not work so well. Almost like what John describes the first time he took the LN our out of the box. Then I went back to the edge and it was totally screwed up by then and I was not able to get it dialed in again.

I do use a "brand new" stanley low angle block plane, that was given to me as a gift, often for fitting, chamfers and end grain and that works great. I have sharpened that one twice now with no incident. I cannot seem to get what I do there to transfer over to a bench plane though.

Dave, I think that you are right though. I have seen your post almost verbatim before. I am at fault there as I have not taken the time to look into this and get a mentor. I think that you are right though, I may be at the point where books are not longer a help. I did jsut e-mail my local Rockler to see if they are ever going to have a class like that.

Thank you all for the great advice and resources.

[Hank Knight]

John Dykes,

I was entertained by your post, but my expereince was quite different from yours.

My first planes were a shiny new Record #5 and a new Stanely 60 1/2. I knew enough to sharpen them, but I could never get the #5 to do anything like what I thought it was supposed to do. Your description of your tribulations with your LN #4 would as well describe mine with my #5. I had all but resigned myself to burning electrons and forgetting about hand tools - especially planes.

Then my wife gave me a Lie-Nielsen low angle smoother (#164) for Christmas. I took it to my shop and with a great deal of skepticism, I applied it to a large walnut crotch I had bought for a coffee table top. To my amazement and delight, it produced nice long, thin shavings with no tear out. Mind you, this was literally right out of the box - no honing of the iron or anything. I know now that this experience must have involved some kind of devine intervention because a low angle smoother is less than optimum for highly figured stock. Nevertheless, I was euphoric and the experience was sufficient to entice me to pursue hand planes further. In short order I took the plunge down the slope we have all taken.

I had a similar expereince with hand saws. I tried in vain to cut dovetails with a cheap back saw I inherited from my father. My efforts were frustrating in the extreme until someone let me use their really nice Lie-Nielsen dovetail saw. (This is not intended to be Lie-Nielsen testimonial) To my amazement, it cut straight and I could follow a line with it. Until that time I thought hand cut dovetails were a myth.

I am convinced that many would-be woodworkers are deterred from using hand tools by the very poor quality of the hand tools sold today, many of which cannot be made to perform properly at any cost or effort. If you have never had the experience of using a properly made and set-up hand tool, you will never know what one can do. Matthew's original question was whether he should buy an inexpensive new plane to get an idea how one should work. My advice was: No, do not waste your money on a cheap plane. If you want to know what a plane is supposed to do, buy a good one. A good one will come very close to working properly "out of the box."

It's true Matthew already owns what may be good Stanleys, but all of us know that it takes some work to get a "good Stanley" to produce wispy shavings. Matthew will almost certainly learn to fettle his Stanleys and get nice long wispy curls. But, in all likelihood, he can get a high quality modern plane to produce wispys with a lot less work - probably all he would need to do would be to hone the blade. My experience didn't even require that - mine worked right out of the box. If he's looking for some immediate baseline understranding of what he should be able to expect from a hand plane, he should be able to get it faster and with much less frustration with a quality modern plane, than he would starting from scratch and learning to fettle his Stanleys. If he spends his money on a cheap plane he may never get it and he could well lose his enthusiasm and abandon the effort in frustration.

Since I took my headlong plunge down the slope, I have acquired a number of Lie-Nielsen planes, one Lee Valley shoulder plane, a bunch of old Stanelys and one Norris infill. All of my Lie-Nielsens and the Lee Valley worked well "out of the box." I do hone the iron on a new plane now, which makes a lot of difference; but I consider that standard procedure for any new edge tool. I agree with you that there is no substitute for learning how planes work and how to set them up to perform properly. But I stand by my comment that the path to happiness with hand planes is shorter when you start with a quality tool. Had it not been for the thrill I got from my first experience with my Lie-Nielsen low angle smoother, right out of the box, I might never have been tempted to go beyond the unpleasant experience I had with my shiny blue Record #5. My Lie-Nielsen low angle smoother sings a sweeter song now that I now more about it, but it's siren song was sweet enough the first time to motivate me to go furhter.

Hank

[Marcus Ward]

So here goes the questions:
1. Is "The Handplane Book" one of the best sources for refurbing, tuning and understanding planes? Is there a better resource out there?


The internet. It's free and everything I know I learned from the internet or by trying and messing it up.


2. Should I purchase a couple new ones so I know how they SHOULD work? If so, are Hartville Planes (inexpensive) a good starting place?No, they're junk. You're going to have to spend significant amounts of jack to get a GOOD hand plane made these days. There are several people on this forum who sell refurbed planes for a fraction of the cost that will serve as a better example. Someone else will have to come up with the names, I'm drawing a blank.


3. Is there a compreshesive resource for identifying planes, their worth and what you can do to them without de-valueing them? I do not want to refurb one only to find out I dropped the value from $1K to $100. At that point I would sell it to someone who would appreciate more than me.Ebay, mostly. The only Stanley worth significant amounts of money is a #1. If you have one, sell it and buy all the rest of the planes with the proceeds. Screw collectors, they only serve to deprive real craftsmen of tools by either making tools too expensive to own or keeping them out of the hands of people who would use them as they were meant to be used.

I would look through the completed auctions for every plane you've got and identify the ones you can make money from - however, those are probably going to be very useful. Either you have to resign yourself to using them and possibly hurting their value or doing without, which in some cases makes it very difficult to do certain kinds of work properly.

Just my 2 cents.

Google "Scary Sharp" for a good way to sharpen blades. Cheap too.

[John Dykes]

Hank, pm sent.

I have a tendency to ramble on in my writing... In comparing our two posts, my usage of "out of the box" comes off as a bit combative or worse, sarcastic. For that I apologize, and on my word, I never had that intention.

If Matthew follows your post to the letter, he won't go wrong. I completely agree - LNs will get him up and running in short order. He's probably a bit more adept at such things that I was (am!)!! He's well ahead of me already -asking the right questions to the right people in the right place.

Again, no offense intended.

Respectfully,

John Dykes


Edit: My posts go through some rewording and revision to clarify my rambling - as the one above. I'm sure that I'd forgotten your points in the process. I re-read my post and found this gem:


When folks say, “LNs work right out of the box” – or are most likely to work right out of the box – that is woefully inaccurate

At that time, I realized this would generate some discussion - as was my purpose (Again, not remembering what you had posted). It was poorly done - and will be changed. My words did not mirror my intent.

- jbd

[Pam Niedermayer]

The first hand plane that worked for me was the LN LA jack. It worked perfectly right out of the box, no sharpening or tuning required. It also turned out to be a great first plane since it could do so many jobs, from jointing to smoothing. I moved to wooden planes not long after, but it was the LN's superior performance that convinced me I could possibly get a woody (HNT Gordon) to work.

I, too, went through several junk planes, wooden and metal, trying to get them to work, before I found the LN.

Pam

[Hank Knight]

John,

PM Sent.

No offense taken. No apology called for. All in the spirit of good debate. Everyone's experiences are different.

Hank

[Mike Cutler]

John

I have the following LN planes; 4 1/2, 5,6,7,9,042,60 1/2,85,
97 1/2,98,99,102,103,164 and all of their bevel edge chisel. I'm a fairly big fan of LN.
I found no offense with your initial wording concerning LN planes. It made me realize something I hadn't. I actually enjoyed the "gem" that you deleted.
I was one of those guys that took woodshop all through Jr. High,and part of High School. You know the type. Wore long sleeve Frank Zappa T-shirts and Do Rags to keep the woodshavings out of our hair, even though we were sitting in english class.:eek:,:o All of our projects were either stereo speakers, something that resmebled drug paraphanelia, or something to store stuff that resembled drug paraphanelia in. Cheeseboards were very popular,and those guys wouldn't have known the difference between a cheeseboard and a corkboard.:rolleyes:
I was 11 or 12 years old when I was taught, in a classroom setting, how to setup and use planes. We primarily used Stanley #5's,# 6's, Blocks, Scrubs and Shoulder planes. Sometimes the teacher would also bring in some of his own personal planes that were more purpose specific that we could play around with, under a very watchful eye I might add.;).
Point being. I had a very classical, rote, introduction to woodworking handtools at a very young age to fall back on. There are things that I take for granted because of that education that I never really think about any longer. To me adjusting the blade and throat of a plane is something I don't think about. I just do it based on the type of wood, and what I'm trying to achieve. I would have never thought to take a plane out of the box,and go for it, without adjusting it, only because I had been taught in a classroom to check the plane before every use, because you never knew who had it before you, or what it was used for. I still do this, and I'm the only one that uses my planes.
I don't consider myself to be any sort of an expert on handplanes though, just someone that benefitted from instruction in school.
There was a 20+ year gap from high school woodshop, to "rediscovering" woodworking so to speak. I'm not going to lie to you. I struggled for the first couple of years. It wasn't like riding a bike. It didn't all come back instantly. It took a few years to get my "chops back". Without the benefit of those years in a classroom enviorment. I'm not sure I would have had the initiative to take up woodworking. I knew how much work it could be.:eek:,;)

Rehabbing planes is fun,and the day job gives me access to a full machine shop, and machinists for advice. All of my flea market planes work well,and have benefitted from this advantage.
Blue checking frogs and soles and polishing all mating surfaces, refiling mouths, re-bending chip breakers, Flattening soles regrinding and establishing primary bevels, etc... These are the qualities, or lack of qualitites, that make a plane "not ready to use out of the box" to me.
For the record, none of my LN's have come out of the box not needing some adjustment prior to actual use. They all had to have the irons set, throats adjusted, and a little honing of the blade done.;)
I still prefer the LN's over the rehabs even though I use both. I like the feel and the weight of the LN's over the Stanleys. Someone else could easily have the opposite feeling though. It's an intangible thing.


I've always been impressed personally with folks that could use the woodies. Now those are a mystery to me. All the subtle taps at varying places on the body of the plane to adjust it. That's something. There is that certain mystique and pureness to them that Pam refers too. Some of them are truly beautiful also. Seemingly posessing a type of soul that cold metal doesn't.

Your post prompted dialog, and that's always a good thing.

[Marcus Ward]

I have the following LN planes; 4 1/2, 5,6,7,9,042,60 1/2,85,
97 1/2,98,99,102,103,164 and all of their bevel edge chisel. I'm a fairly big fan of LN.


I do believe this was a drive-by gloat! :D

[Mike Cutler]

I do believe this was a drive-by gloat! :D

No Penalty shot on goal here Marcus. I've posted pic's of all of them.:D,;)... I hope.
It's a taken a few years, christmas', birthdays and good bonuses to accumulate them. Hopefully I'll do them justice. I'm kinda moving away from machines.

I just like the feel of an LN. I kinda liken it to shotgunning . I love the big heavy over/unders, and side by sides. Give me one of those lightweight Italian models, or a Pump, and I can't hit the side of a barn, standing inside the barn, with the doors closed.:eek:

[Jerry Olexa]

This is a great thread.....IMHO, I believe sharpening and adjusting are the keys to getting most planes to work properly whether its a Stanley HD special or a LN. Its a very addictive and satisfying process....