Need help figuring out BF for project

[Greg McCallister]

OK, I am pretty new to woodworking. Have built a few things mostly with hardwood ply and such.
I want to build the kitchen cabinets for my home.
Small kitchen, U shaped which would contain 12 foot of upper cabinets above refrig and stove to a corner cabinet and an aditional corner on the other side of the sink (window in between).
Lower would be L shaped with sink and diswasher with an 8 foot section containing one row of drawers and another standard door cabinet.
Doors will be raised panel and faces will also be hardwood. Cases of course will be ply.
My question is: with your vast knowledge of wookworking experence, how many BF of hardwood should I purchase for this project.
I know without a sketch it may be difficult to estimate and depending on the grade but can you give me a somewhat of an idea on what you think would be needed?

[Michael McCoy]

I have an Excel spreadsheet calculator if you're interested. I'm not sure but I may have downloaded it from the Wood Central forum.

After posting the above, my curiosity got aroused so I did a Google and it turned out to be Woodbin. Search for "Woodbin cabinet calculator"

[frank shic]

greg, if you buy a program like cutlistpro or get a copy of ecabinets which is free from the developer, the board feet will be automatically determined by the program.

[Brodie Brickey]

The eCabinets software does help. Don't forget to put a dishwasher in the design.

[Greg Cole]

And whatever the program burps out add another 15% or so..... 'tis better to have it & not need it that the opposite. Making banks of cabinets with lumber from multiple purchases will make the finishing process tougher as most likely the secondary lumber purchase won't be from the same lot as the first purchase.
If you are like most of us, you wind up with more wood than time, so might as well get a start on the stash. :D Seriously, it's a a must to have the "SWAG" factor as it's referred to at the day job. Helps with grain matching, culling out defects (knots, checks etc)... and also in case you make a boo boo along the way.
My first real project was making new cabinet doors and drawer faces for my kitchen.... I borrowed a table saw and bought a router with no idea how to use it other than knowing it would shape the edge of a board.... I did full know what to expect from the ROS though :rolleyes:. Not so sure that project is looked at as "good old days", but I did a hell of a job with no knowledge (other than some NYY episodes under my belt)nor tools.
I did have the smarts to make a couple sample doors before deciding to dive in with both feet.
Cheers.
Greg

[Jim Becker]

And whatever the program burps out add another 15% or so

Minimum, depending on the species. Careful grain and color matching will require a lot more material. What's left becomes secondary wood for this or other projects. I typically buy 25-50% more material than I need in that respect, working primarily in cherry.

[Greg McCallister]

Ok I understand what you guys mean - if I start buying now, would 200 BF be average for a kitchen? I have no problem with too much stock as I have several other projects I would like to do.
Need to set up funds for purchase of the wood and as mentioned would prefer to get from the same lot - just trying to get an idea thats all. In your experence on average (I will not hold ya to it).

[Lee Schierer]

Need to set up funds for purchase of the wood and as mentioned would prefer to get from the same lot -

Most likely the wood will come from several different trees as most sawmills don't keep wood from each tree separated from all the other wood of the same species as it is cut, dried and milled. You might get all the wood from a single lot of kiln drying, but even that is no assurance the wood will all be the same color and grain.

Generally 10-15% overage is acceptable. Select the best pieces for the parts that show (panels and drawer fronts) and use the lesser pieces for rails, stiles and other areas that are less noticeable. Remember sapwood will never be the same color as the heart wood, even if dyed or stained.

[Greg Cole]

Too much stock???? What in the world are you talking about.....?:D
I used about 30 bf in just rail & stile material for I think 20 doors and 10 drawer fronts & the long skinny filler panel under the sink.
Straight grained material lends to less waste in the matching process, swirly or figured material is a craps shoot on waste factor.

Greg

[Joe Chritz]

I figure about 150-200 BF for a mid size kitchen with RP doors.

I generally make a cut list of all solid parts, add %20 and go from there. The last two kitchens and the one I am doing now are Oak so I generally add a bit extra since it is nice to have some on hand.

You also could do this.

36" base cab has roughly (very roughly) 7.8 BF of lumber with a face frame. 8 feet of bases would be 2.666 times that amount or about 20.75. 20 percent over would be 24.9 so I would plan on buying 25 BF minimum for the bases.

A 36" wide 36" tall upper has roughly 9.5 BF. 12 foot would be 4 times that so 38 BF + 7.6 B (%20) = 45.6 BF. I would round up to 50 and plan on using 75 BF.

Lots of places give a better deal on 100+ BF so that would be what I would buy.

Adjust the numbers for taller uppers, pantry cabs and the like and it is a simple way to figure BF. Essentially the same thing Ecabs and cutlist will do. Ecabs will do it for you automatically but I use Kitchendraw to draw the plans.

It is easier than tracking every piece every time since waste varies depending on the quality of the lumber.

Joe

Edit - for grammar and it appears you have more than 8 feet total in base cabs. Obviously just count up running feet and this works well.

[Jesse Cloud]

Don't forget to plan for hardware, too. Its shocking how much they charge these days. :eek: Allow plenty of time to shop around.

[Joe Chritz]

Don't forget to plan for hardware, too. Its shocking how much they charge these days. :eek: Allow plenty of time to shop around.

Thats no lie. It is amazing how much you can wrap up in hinges and runners. Not counting pulls, those are horrible.

I have been using some inexpensive full extension runners in place of better euro slides and they seem to be pretty good. Granted they aren't $25 slides but for $7-10 they seem pretty nice.

The hardwood for a full kitchen is only a small part of the cost by a long shot.

Joe

[Greg McCallister]

Thanks everyone for your expert advise.
As I can see, 200 bf should do the job. Now have to figure out were to store it :eek:.
Thanks again

Greg

PS - Just donated to this great forum.
Well worth it :D

[John-Paul Murphy]

Hi Greg,
Sounds like a fun project. Please post pics.
For me out side storage is not an option. Even with proper stacking I get a lot of warping. I live in Ga. With a lot of temp / humidity changes. I have a couple of bins inside off the concrete floor. They have solid surfaces that the wood rest on. I’m lucky I have a basement with HVAC and humidity control…just my .02

[Greg McCallister]

As cost is somewhat a factor but as I explained the the better half that the cost of custom made cabinets can run in the thousands and face it, most of the quality of work is pretty bad. Hardware is a concern and as it is my own kitchen, I do not plan on skimping on the hardware.
Do you have a good source for hardware? I have a Woodcraft a mile down the road and a Rockler 20 miles or so?
I thinking $2000-3000.00 for most everything is not much compared to the alternatives.

[Ted Jay]

As cost is somewhat a factor but as I explained the the better half that the cost of custom made cabinets can run in the thousands and face it, most of the quality of work is pretty bad. Hardware is a concern and as it is my own kitchen, I do not plan on skimping on the hardware.
Do you have a good source for hardware? I have a Woodcraft a mile down the road and a Rockler 20 miles or so?
I thinking $2000-3000.00 for most everything is not much compared to the alternatives.

Sources for hardware are easy. If you find some you like just compare prices online. I went to google and typed in kitchen cabinet hardware (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=opera&rls=en&hs=UsU&q=kitchen+cabinet+hardware&btnG=Search).
Be prepare... there's alot...:D

Good luck,
Ted

[Joe Chritz]

I generally use Woodworkers supply and Custom Service Hardware for almost everything cabinet related. Klingspor for abrasives, although I am thinking about trying the 6"x280" belts from Woodworkers for the new drum sander coming. (Nice hidden pre-gloat :))

There are a lot of distributors but those are the ones I go back to the most.

Joe

[Greg McCallister]

What brand of slides do you feel offer the best (longest lasting as the better half is murder on drawers)?

[Joe Chritz]

Just saw your from MI. HI!

I have used a few different brands and obviously Blum, KV and Accuride are a few of the really good ones.

I really like the side mount ball bearing slides and just got another 15 from Custom Service Hardware. I was about $80 with shipping for 15 of those but I don't know the brand. Very similar slides have been in my kitchen for 4 years, several have 30" wide maple drawers full of canned goods.

While my experience is by no means statistically valid it has been positive, especially for the price.

For Euro runners the Blum brand are cheap enough I just buy those and I haven't used undermounts.

If you ever get near Mt.Pleasant you are welcome to stop and check them out.

Also I tend to use euro hinges (35mm cup) and get Blum compact 33 with face frame hinge. Someday I will get smart and just order a few hundred from Woodworkers supply.

Joe

[Greg McCallister]

Hello fellow Michigander..:D
Thanks for the info on the slides.
Would love to drop by if I ever get in the area - were do you get your rough stock from?

[Dennis Peacock]

What brand of slides do you feel offer the best (longest lasting as the better half is murder on drawers)?

Greg,

I use the 75 pound rated ballbearing drawer slides from Custom Service Hardware. Prices are always good and I've used these slides for years without a single problem. I believe I paid something like $6 a pair on my last project...last year about this time.

[Greg McCallister]

Dennis those are quite reasonable in price - will surely check them out!!!

[Dave Falkenstein]

Full extension slides by the carton:

http://www.gliderite.com/

Quality hinges with discounts for volume:

http://www.cabinetparts.com/

[Greg McCallister]

Dave,
How are those Gliderite guides holding up - wow the price is very reasonable.

[Dave Falkenstein]

Dave,
How are those Gliderite guides holding up - wow the price is very reasonable.

I used GlideRite slides in a mobile tool cabinet with several sliding trays. Some of the tools are fairly heavy - like a big router and a circular saw. I built the cabinet about three years ago and have had no problem with the slides.

Even after you add shipping cost, the GlideRite pricing is very good.

[frank shic]

greg, if you want to go all out on building these kitchen cabinets with dovetail drawers, you owe it to yourself and your wife to check out either the epoxy coated undermount slides or the higher end blum tandems. nothing detracts more from the beauty of a drawer than the generic epoxy coated drawer slide or a shiny metal full extension slide. i bought everything from woodworkers hardware.

www.wwhardware.com