Advice for building a new shop

[Andy Pratt]

I wanted to start a discussion on the major layout/design features of a medium sized cabinetry/furniture shop. I was wondering if anyone would be willing to chime in with their "top" lists of do's and don't do's when setting up this kind of shop.

Already planning on these as givens:
Separate finish room (not sure on size)
Separate enclosure for compressor and DC system (noise)
Radiant floor heating, plenty of wall/ceiling insulation (upstate NY)
Somewhere from 20'X20' to 30'X30' for overall size

I'm looking for any kind of advice you guys want to give on machine layout, workstations, floor construction, storage ideas, work flow considerations etc. If it's something you're thankful for every day, or something you kick yourself for not doing, please pass it along.

If I had to start it off with my limited experience I would say:
- Go to great lengths to get all machines/work surfaces at a common height. I don't have this now and it's continually inefficient and annoying.
- Run DC ducting along the ceiling or in a subfloor, it takes up a lot of useable space along walls
- Place outlets/power strips on the front of work surfaces so cords aren't over your work

These are probably really obvious to most of you but I'm learning them the hard way, so hopefully this thread keeps me and others like me from continuing on that trend.

Thanks in advance for the replies

Andy

[Jim Becker]

My additional thoughts:


Go as large as you physically can do and can afford
Windows! Natural light is nice to have. You don't have to fill your walls, either to do this...mount them up high on the wall in most places, but try to have an area, perhaps your bench/hand tool area, with "normal" windows with a nice view
Doors that open out or are roll-up do not take up and wall space or block overhead "utilities" when opened. Hinged doors should have security hinges, however, in that configuration
Consider a cleat system so things like cabinets and other storage accommodations on the walls can be moved and reconfigured as the shop evolves...as it will...over time
Wood floor if at all possible for comfort
Stay away from "cheap" lighting solutions. Put in good lighting up front as the investment will pay off in the long term
Position major power tools so that they are complimentary to the way your work and so that you can reduce the complexity and increase the performance of dust collection duct work
Tools that get used for special purposes or infrequently don't need a permanent spot...keep them mobile and put them in a "tool coral" to increase the space available in the shop for assembly of larger and multiple projects, as well as storing the same between completion and delivery
Assembly work surfaces should be height adjustable for comfort and access convenience. There are many ways to do this and many of those are "knock down" for minimal storage space
Tools you use to break down lumber should be positioned close to where the material arrives and is stored to reduce the amount of times you have to handle the material
Pipe in your compressed air with drops convenient to assembly areas...and do it during construction if you can
If there is any kind of available slope to the site, it may allow you to have a roll-up door with the floor surface at the same height as your typical delivery vehicle backed up to that door...a nice thing if you are going to be building for others and moving material in and finished goods out
Consider your potential future needs as you design and build the shop...it will change. Be sure you can be flexible and not lock yourself into "positional jail" (one of my major concerns with duct work in a slab, for example)

[Richard M. Wolfe]

I'm just going to post a few things that come to mind....that I did or wish I had done.

As Jim says....good lighting. Windows are a plus for lighting and use plenty of lights placed to illuminate as much of your workpiece in an assembly table or area as possible. So you can, for example, look around the corner of a cabinet you're building to see if the edge is flush. And as natural a light source as possible for staining and finishing.

When I built my shop I didn't ask or do reading on layout and consequently built it and wired it more or less like house construction. Never, ever put a wall plug 18 inches off the floor. I have several like that and it took about a week for all to get covered and unusable. Never below four feet, or better yet four and a half feet which is above a 4x8 panel against the wall.

Doors that hinge outside. If I had an entry that hinged inside there are times I would have trouble getting in or out, much less opening the door wide to move things in or out.:) And a ramp to ground level. I have only about a three inch stepdown to ground level but would probably have dumped more than one piece of unwieldy furniture I was taking out if the hand truck had made that three inch drop.

Inherit a bunch of money or win the lottery.:D :D :D

[Rob Bodenschatz]

Doors that hinge outside. If I had an entry that hinged inside there are times I would have trouble getting in or out, much less opening the door wide to move things in or out.

Warning! Warning! Warning!

If you do install outward-hinged doors, be sure to keep at least one snow shovel OUTSIDE of the shop. I'm sure you can figure out why.

[Art Mann]

Carefully consider your electrical needs. I would say 100A service minimum. Put in lots of branch circuits. Install wall outlets a little higher than 4' so that plywood propped against the wall will not obscure them. Don't run a bunch of outlets on the same circuit along the same wall. Alternate branch circuits on adjacent outlets. Put in at least 4 240V 20A circuits and at least 1 30A circuit. Do not assume a certain location for each stationary tool and run a wire to that location. Try to be more versatile. The arrangement will inevitably change. However much lighting you think is adequate, put twice that much. You will still wish you had more. These are the lessons I learned the hard way.

[Bert Johansen]

Put in the best dust collection system you can afford. Not less than a 5HP cyclone, vented outside. See other threads on this subject.

[Rob Will]

2x6 stud frame construction (not a pole barn).
1/2 plywood on interior walls - gloss latex house paint - a light color but not plain white.
White metal ceiling
Lumber storage
Sheet goods storage
More storage
Make it bigger
Make it bigger again
Build a 1/12 scale model of the shop floorplan and walls. Cut out blocks of wood on the bandsaw to represent major machine tools.
DC room w/ cyclone near the outside so chip removal is easy.
Big Jointer, Big Bandsaw, Big PlanerRob

[Andy Pratt]

Thanks for all of the great replies everone, lots of stuff in there that I wouldn't have thought of on my own until I'd made the wrong permanent decision. Having access to this site is probably the closest thing to apprenticeship that any of us who can't do that can hope for, so thanks again for the help. Hopefully more ideas keep coming, I'm learning a lot from this.

[Kent E. Matthew]

This is the one I just finished. Well, not completely finished. Complete metal construction. I am on a pie shaped lot so this structure is not square on the left side. There is a second front window that the door obscures when its open.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c56/Goose5/aftershop1.jpg

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Andy....I'm just completing my shop.....A couple of things to consider......

200 amp electrical service.....You'll have plenty of capability

Put you electrical outlets at least 50 inches off the floor......

Insulate.....Plywood on the walls and the ceilings....I put sheetrock on the ceiling...wished I hadn't!

[Declan James]

*sky lighting, too many windows take up valuable wall space
*use fiber cement siding [backerboard]
*corrugated metal roofing
*6" wall studs with plenty of insulation
*sheetrock the inside
*use insulated roll up doors

[keith ouellette]

There was a thread started here where someone had the duct work under the floor ( You mentioned that one) you might want to look for it, I think its biggest draw back is you can't change it.
when your planning things out don't forget to plan for proper wood storage and sheet goods storage. It will always be nice to have various veneered plywoods on hand.
If you can't build it really big from the start chose a plan that is easy to add on to and prepare for an ad on latter.
My shop is only 18 x 24 and I am glad I only put in one window. They take up to much wall.
I wish I would have used conduit for my 220 so I could move it around if I chose to.
Wish I had running water.
Build an attic you can store stuff in with thicker truss base. I built a small lift and put a generator, compressor, and wielder I wasn't using in my attic.

[Rob Will]

Thanks for all of the great replies everone, lots of stuff in there that I wouldn't have thought of on my own until I'd made the wrong permanent decision. Having access to this site is probably the closest thing to apprenticeship that any of us who can't do that can hope for, so thanks again for the help. Hopefully more ideas keep coming, I'm learning a lot from this.

We are all glad to do it. In my case I sometimes feel like I did EVERYTHING wrong - and you're right......hindsight will be 20/20.
From listening to most woodworkers talk about thier shops, it seems that most of us go through a conservative phase where we try to justify the size of the building. After it is all over, most of us underestimate how bulky ww tools and piles of wood really are. Most of us wish the building was bigger.

There are some super telented people who make things in a closet sized shop but if you have the space, a 40' x 48' x 12' high would be my pick.

Rob

[Aaron Beaver]

Insulate.....Plywood on the walls and the ceilings....I put sheetrock on the ceiling...wished I hadn't!

Why would you rather have plywood on the ceiling? Just curious.

Thanks

[William McFarland]

I have almost completed a 16'x24' wooden shop and the one thing that I made sure of was to put a lot of electric outlets in the floor of the shop. I ran two legs of 220 in the floor in case I wanted to move the table saw around. I don't really see how a 20'x20' shop will give you nearly enough room for what you are interested in doing I would go with a bigger shop at least 30'x20' but 30'x30' would be even better. Make sure that you put a high enough pitch on the roof for a good size attic if you are building a smaller shop since that is great storage space. Also consider putting in a loft in so that you can add more useable storage space. This is my first shop and I am so excited about finally finishing everything up and moving all the tools in!:D

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Why would you rather have plywood on the ceiling? Just curious.

Thanks

Well in the course of painting the shop I was moving some lumber around and "dinged" the ceiling.......small 3/4" gouge.....wouldn't have happened with plywood.:o

[Andy Pratt]

One of the biggest areas that I'm still unsure on is the overall size of the shop. While we can surely say that bigger is always nicer and more convenient with large assembly projects, it's not always better. I've read a lot of intelligent arguments for finding a good middle ground instead of giving yourself all the space you could want: amount of walking to get to tools/areas you need, cost of heating space that might not be necessary, initial cost of contruction, complexity of cleanup.

I'll be keeping my shop a one man operation and it's hard for me to imagine, right now, ever truly "needing" more than 30X30. My understanding was that a large percentage of successful one-man shops were in the 20X20 to 30X30 range, is this inaccurate?

I'd love to have a huge shop, but practicality dictates a middle ground. The suggestion to plan for an addition is definitely a great idea that I plan to do.

Thanks,
Andy

[Greg Sznajdruk]

Or you could go this route. $12.5 K completly installed. 24 by 30.

Greg

[Chris Padilla]

Well in the course of painting the shop I was moving some lumber around and "dinged" the ceiling.......small 3/4" gouge.....wouldn't have happened with plywood.:o

Well, good for you, Fitzgerald! Finally got some CHARACTER in that shop of yours. Now let's see your curtains!! hahahaha

[Victor Stearns]

Add a number of 220v outlets such that you have half as many 220 as 110. Sounds like alot, but when you realize that you have only 2-220v and need more you will understand. Use plywood wood painted a light color to cover walls and ceiling. Put this up with screws. This will allow you (me) to add more outlets later. Locate the DC outside. Why take up the floor space? Build it as big as you can afford without all the extras. My LOML told you can build it once so make sure to do it right. 26x36 sure is nice.
Good Luck
Victor

[Chris Padilla]

One of the biggest areas that I'm still unsure on is the overall size of the shop. While we can surely say that bigger is always nicer and more convenient with large assembly projects, it's not always better. I've read a lot of intelligent arguments for finding a good middle ground instead of giving yourself all the space you could want: amount of walking to get to tools/areas you need, cost of heating space that might not be necessary, initial cost of contruction, complexity of cleanup.

I'll be keeping my shop a one man operation and it's hard for me to imagine, right now, ever truly "needing" more than 30X30. My understanding was that a large percentage of successful one-man shops were in the 20X20 to 30X30 range, is this inaccurate?

I'd love to have a huge shop, but practicality dictates a middle ground. The suggestion to plan for an addition is definitely a great idea that I plan to do.

Thanks,
Andy


Andy,

Shop size is a tough one. We all have different reasons for having the size of a shop we have. Mine is a two-*cough, cough* car garage and that is that. I would almost die for a 3-*cough, cough, cough* car garage but that will happen in our next house (no clue when or where that will be) and I can guarantee that it will be at least a 3 horse but I'll go bigger if I can.

I'd say odds are decent that whatever size you choose, it will not change over time or in other words, you probably won't add on so push the numbers around carefully to decide what you need and want right now. You will not appreciate that bigger is better until you are a few months or maybe even years deep into ww'ing but space is something that is actually cheap at the start and expensive in the middle. The problem is, you won't know that until after the fact and we humans often learn things the hard way. So to echo most of the comments in this thread: Bigger is always better so make it as big as you can afford to...even it means cutting into your tool budget or some other budget that you can recover over time.

For lighting, go with T8 fluourescents and paint everything in your shop the most boring/cheapest semi-gloss white you can find. It helps spread the light around...it really, really does.

Good Luck

[Jeff Cybulski]

One thing I like about mine is the 10ft ceilings. Makes moving 8ft wood around easier

Jeff