PDA

View Full Version : Easy lessons. Hard lessons....



John Dykes
01-02-2008, 12:52 PM
In the last few months, I’ve used my 2 planes (4, 7) to essentially do final flattening and smoothing of panels and projects – nothing terribly sophisticated. In that time I’ve been working on my sharpening skills – learning, bit by bit. When I’m not “outside” in my 10 degree garage with hands on practice – I re-read articles and view my Charlesworth videos repeatedly - trying to figure out what I’m doing wrong, and how I can make my planes sing as his do.

I’ve learned something, or I think I have. Thus far, I’ve never “curved” my blade. I sharpen on stones, and while I’ve tried – this curving skill eluded me a bit (I also never took the time to work at it – “straight” was good enough). Yes, a straight blade leaves tracks in the wood, but I also have been learning about the card scraper (albeit slowly for some reason).

I’m in the process of working 6/4 rough lumber into a round table top. It’s been run through the jointer and planer “hit and miss” to this point. I’d like to depend more on my planes moving forward.

I’ve watched those Charlesworth videos to the point of memorization – much to my family’s confusion… Charlesworth always mentions you need a curved blade to edge joint stock – “I don’t have a spirit level built into my body.” This has always confused me – “Curved plane blade to “flatten” a glue line????” Yes, with previous projects I’ve run stock through the jointer, and run the straight bladed #7 across to “clean up the mill marks.”

But on my dining room tabletop, that isn’t good enough. I want to understand – I want to learn why the curved blade is needed to joint lumber accurately. So, I pull the portable DVD player next to the sink (again to my wife’s groans) and two hours later, I’ve got a new Hock blade curved quite nicely…

I have a practice piece of walnut – 4/4 rough, 20 inches long. Practice piece yes, but also my “go out after sitting in the office for 10 hrs wishing I was a woodworker and take a few shavings” piece. One face of the walnut is pretty flat. Not officially been “flattened,” but it’s pretty flat (the other side is still rough). I need to be able to joint edges square to a flat face for my table. I pull out my cheap square and notice how bad off my edge is – huge gap under the square. (For my evening “unwinding” shavings, I usually take cuts from the edge. Apparently, poor technique with a straight blade has really tilted this edge.) I grab the #7 with the straight blade and try to get a square edge. I hold it at a angle trying to shave down the high side. After 15 minutes, I can’t seem to get a straight square edge – trying to shave down just the “right spots.” I then try my newly refurbished #5 with the freshly curved Hock blade. As soon as I put the plane down on the edge of wood – the light bulb goes on. I can put the plane down “squarely” on the edge, and position the curved blade to cut only where I want it to. Within a minute, I’ve got a square edge to my flat face (with my cheap square).

I giggle – I beam with pride – and have another one of those moments where I feel like I “worked the wood.” Doing this on a 20” piece of wood is one thing – 42” board for a table top may be a whole different type of challenge….

That was the easy lesson. The hard lesson hasn’t been so pleasant…

In the last 2 weeks, I’ve taken the ebay route to build my plane collection. Every day, I’m out searching the same 850+ ads for the diamond in the rough. I hit gold on my first try – #5 type 13 that was rock solid and very rusty for $20 (Marcus’s advice of fuzzy pictures really paid off). It works better than I dreamed it could with the Hock blade.

In my euphoria – thinking I could find all the gems no one else could see – I won a $22 #5 that I thought was a 15, but is really a 19 with an old cap iron (And I learned what a “broad raised rib” is) – with broken wood. And worse - $25 #6 that has nearly been eaten away… With shipping, $70 worth of mistakes. I’ll probably practice my cleaning, tuning skills and put them back up – try to recoup a bit.

eBay is pure insanity…. Not sure I need a #2, or #3 (I have pretty big hands), or a Bedrock.

I’ve got a 4 (LN), 5, 7. Maybe find a 4 1/2c, and a 5 ˝ (ala D. Charlesworth) – and I’ll leave the madness to the collectors. (Maybe a scrub… and if a cheap #3 is out there…. Maybe a 6…)

Learning comes in many ways….

Better get to work ~

Regards,

-jbd in Denver

Marcus Ward
01-02-2008, 1:26 PM
Easy come, easy go. If you really know what you're looking for you can see it even with bad pictures, if you're new to it, you might not. How bad is that #6? Pitting is not a big deal depending on where it's at. Nothing wrong with a type 19, a lot of them are great planes. Don't get all caught up in the "old is gold" hype. There is plenty of old crap too. If you've got a 4,5,7, you don't really need a 4 1/2, 5 1/2, it's just one of those nice things. Keep at it. :)

mike holden
01-02-2008, 1:38 PM
jbd
You have got a complete set of bench planes already. Suggest you rent,borrow or buy Chris Schwarz's "Coarse, medium, fine" for a good explanation of what bench planes are necessary. He also has a good dvd on using scrapers. (skip the forgotten hand tools unless you are really into handwork)
Spend your money on a good set of sharpening stones and an inexpensive guide (see Charlesworth for what to look for, Woodcraft sells a good guide for about $12) and learn to sharpen what you have.

As regards the edge jointing. If you picture the bottom of your plane (flat surface) with a curved blade sticking out (half moon - exaggerated), then by placing either side of the half moon over the high edge of the non square board edge, you can remove more material on that side, thereby bring the edge surface square to the face. This may take several strokes. Then when it is square - flatten by using the center of the blade. Since the amount of curve is quite small (several thousandths of an inch) and essentially flat in the middle, it works!

When you get these planes working to your satisfaction, then get a rabbet and a router and start your next round in the journey.

Welcome to the slippery slope, you are going to enjoy the ride!
Mike

Marcus Ward
01-02-2008, 1:40 PM
Don't forget a shoulder plane! ;)

Tim Leo
01-02-2008, 2:58 PM
That was the easy lesson. The hard lesson hasn’t been so pleasant…

In my euphoria – thinking I could find all the gems I no one else could see – I won a ... $25 #6 that has nearly been eaten away…

eBay is pure insanity….

Learning comes in many ways….





I think I bought the #6's brother. It looked like the surface of the moon. I spent a couple of hours with a deburring wheel and some 60 grit sandpaper to clean it up. It's not beautiful, but it works well now. Anyway, don't give up on it just because it's not in excellent condition...it may work out for you after all. And what you learn during the cleanup and fettling will definitely help with finding the next gem you buy.

John Dykes
01-02-2008, 3:59 PM
Mike - where have you been? I could have used that lesson a few months ago! The problem with stumbling around as I do, I don't even realize the questions that I need to ask. (I'm tossing around the idea of creating a website about woodworking. Not to give advice, but to post pictures \ videos of things I can't describe or can't figure out \ do. Think of it as a jr. Neanderthal e-mentor program....)

But what you describe - is what finally clicked for me last night. Again, Charlesworth says: "I don't understand how people try to shape a square edge with a flat blade. I don't understand that at all." Then goes on talking about curving the blade! I never got why, until I tried it! So thanks for putting into words something that has eluded me for so long!

To be honest, once the usage of planes started sinking in - I asked my father if he had any planes that I could have. He offered a #78 (rabbet?) and a #71 (router) that he picked up in the mid 60's from "the hardware store down the street from Ft. Campbell." I've cleaned up the #78 and put a LN blade in it - and cut a little bit with it. It seems to work very well, but I have had no true application yet (or I don't think I do?). The 71 and the 3 cutters are still encased in rust. Taking Marcus's advice, I ran at lunch and picked up 2 lbs of citric acid - for the 71, and the rough looking #6 (I tried the electrolysis - and it worked; now I'll try acid. Learn by doing right??). I'll try to get some pictures posted - I think Comcast has an option for a website... And Marcus, I also have a medium LN shoulder plane from Woodcraft coming soon (was on sale!).

The problem with the #6 are the craters around the mouth... Which I understand to be critical. It was such a big letdown after my first win, so I didn't examine it too closely. I'll get it soaking in citric acid, and get some pictures.

Advice, feedback, criticism are all warmly welcomed...

My thanks -
jbd in Denver

Jim Holman
01-02-2008, 5:30 PM
There are any number of persons who regularly read and post at this site that will be happy to sell you a good user that you can return if not as described. Ebay in an excellent venue for buyers and sellers but there is always a reason when something sells for less than normal.

mike holden
01-02-2008, 8:06 PM
Jbd,
When you get that 71 cleaned up you will need to sharpen the blade so you can cut parallel to the base (the whole reason for a router plane)

This is the only plane I can think of where you have to sharpen the blade in the plane.
Why? Very few, perhaps none, had the blade holder at true right angles to the sole.

So, if you look at the back of plane, you will see two tabs or ears. These are the key to sharpening the blade. Start with the blade out of the plane and hone the upper edge till you are happy, then insert the blade into the plane and adjust the height until the plane sets on the two ears and the base of the blade is almost flat (if you are lucky and have one that is truly machined correctly, the blade will sit flat). You will probably find that it sits on one of the corners of the blade. You will place a sheet of sandpaper on a flat surface such as your tablesaw or jointer, place the plane so the blade is on the paper and the ears off the paper. Now sand till the entire front edge is in contact with the paper, move to finer grits till happy. Now your blade will cut a planar surface offset from the reference plane the plane body is on. (discussing planes and plane geometry is confusing because they use the same words with different meanings - so if this isnt clear, just ask more questions, mh)

This is different from every other plane blade that I am aware of, but it was how I was taught, and it works.

We can get into what a router plane is used for later, but this is enough to get you going.

Whoo Doggies! you is slidin down the slope fast Boy!
Mike

Mark Stutz
01-02-2008, 10:17 PM
Mike,
I've never heard (read) of sharpening a router plane blade. How critical is it for the entire sole of the cutter be on the wood? I just sharpen the edge and use it...seem to get acceptable results, though I've never actually seen anyone else use one, or even seen the end results of anyone's but mine.

Mark

Tim Leo
01-03-2008, 9:12 AM
Jbd,

This is the only plane I can think of where you have to sharpen the blade in the plane.

So, if you look at the back of plane, you will see two tabs or ears. These are the key to sharpening the blade.

Mike



Can you post a photo and point out the tabs?

Marcus Ward
01-03-2008, 9:44 AM
Wow, Mike, that is brilliant. Thanks for the instructions.

You guys can see pics of the planes here: http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan10.htm

And note the ears on the back edge just inside of the knob.

mike holden
01-03-2008, 1:18 PM
Okay, Here are some pics.
Mark Stutz, the back of the blade is not on the wood in use, only when the blade is lowered for sharpening.
Effectively you are sharpening the back of the blade. Only the sharp edge contacts the wood when routing.

78502

This is the underside, the two "ears" are at the top

78503

This is the blade lowered, and the plane resting on the two ears and the bottom of the blade for sharpening.

78504

This is from the other side, you can see the router resting on the "ears".

78505

This shot shows "Why?" you sharpen this way, note the angle of the sharpened area, this is because the shaft of the blade is not held truly 90 degrees to the base of the plane. I, personally, have seen 6 different stanley 71's and my instructor has surely seen many more than that, and none have ever been exactly 90. If you do not make the correction, then you get one edge of the blade digging in more than the other and a flat surface is nearly impossible to produce. Sharpening this way corrects for this condition.

One very important point that may not be clear from the pics, the "ears" are OFF the abrasive when sharpening, only the blade contacts the abrasive. (one of my pics shows one of the "ears" on the abrasive - my bad!)

Hopefully this makes things clearer,
Any more questions?
Mike

Mark Stutz
01-03-2008, 7:16 PM
Thanks, Mike. That makes perfect sense. Pictures are great. I was envisioning the entire bottom of the plane being "sharpened", though I reread the other description, and see that only the cutter is touching, i.e. extended below the base. Thanks. I'll have to try that.

Mark

Bill Brehme
01-03-2008, 8:07 PM
Wow Mike, thanks for the tutorial!!!:)

Now I finally know how to properly sharpen a router plane!

Damn...

...Now I'm going to 'HAVE TO' go out and buy one.:mad:

mike holden
01-04-2008, 10:31 AM
And another one approaches the slippery slope!

Now where did I put my grease?
(grin)

Mike

Bill Brehme
01-05-2008, 3:13 AM
Just like an ant to the pitcher plant!:eek:

Phillip Pattee
01-05-2008, 11:44 PM
It seems to me that this method only works one side of the blade. Wouldn't this leave a burr on the blade that would break off quickly in use leaving a dull edge? It also seems to me that this will create a cutting edge parallel to the plane sole only with the cutter held in that precise orientation in which it was sharpened. If you rotate it slightly or get it cocked when you adjust the depth in the collar, it will no longer be parallel with the sole. If you rotate the cutter 90 degrees it will be pretty far off wouldn't it? I'm guess I'm in the "it is only approximately parallel to the sole" camp. I don't own one. Bid many times on ebay but have never won. Gosh now I'll have to acquire one just to play around with it. Must resist... the slope... so steep...:eek: