High Angle Smoothers

[Brian J. Williams]

Greetings and Happy New Year.


I've been considering building a krenov-style high-angle smoother. After conversing with Ron Hock, I'll probably use one of his irons to get sufficient rigidity in the iron. My question to the group is this- has anyone out there ever built a high-angle smoother out of lignum vitae? I've got a decent-size block, plus a small pile of maple. I know most folks might use other woods, but I've been considering building the entire plane body of the lignum just to get enough mass into the plane. I'm also considering using the maple, but partially hollowing out the maple and epoxying lead shot into the body to get the mass I want in the plane. In that case, I'd still use the lignum vitae for the sole. Any thoughts??

Thanks,

Brian

[mike holden]

Brian,
The lignum vitae sounds great.
The lead shot bothers me as I am not sure where you want the center of mass, you may wind up making things worse.
Still, try it, the blade will still be useful for another plane if the first one doesnt work.
Mike

[Dave Anderson NH]

I'd be concerned about the long term stability of large pieces of Lignum vitae since much of it is not properly aged and dried these days. Thick and large sections have a tendency to check and often will crack badly. As for using it as a sole, go for it. Some of the German wooden planes have used Lignum soles successfully for many years and they wear like iron. I often use Lignum inserts on the sole/throat of spokeshaves I make from wood.

[Tim Sproul]

I'm also considering using the maple, but partially hollowing out the maple and epoxying lead shot into the body to get the mass I want in the plane. In that case, I'd still use the lignum vitae for the sole. Any thoughts??



I would go this way. I haven't worked lignum vitae with hand tooling but based on it's properties would think it is difficult to work. For a really well performing hand plane, you'll be doing some fine tuning with chisels and/or floats and/or sandpaper and/or scrapers so I'd want the body made from a wood that is amenable to hand tooling. The sole is good...you might consider some mechanical means in addition to glue to join the lignum to the maple.

Take care where you put the lead shot....you want the plane to be well balanced. You might make several bodies and put the shot into different spots and see how they feel as you move the plane across wood. Pay particular attention to the beginning and to the end of the stroke as that is where you require finesse and control. Alternatively, contact Steve Knight and find out where he puts the lead into his planes.

[Brian Kent]

Brian,

My high angle smoother is a Mujingfang Rosewood Polish Plane. Although it is made of Rosewood, it still is not that massive. The magic is in the angle and the rock-solid set of the blade.

I think either of those woods would make a great plane. Go for the one that seems the most fun and that you can picture working with. Whatever the case, show us pictures any time, including now, if you have a digital camera!

And welcome to the Creek!

Brian

[Zahid Naqvi]

As Dave recommends I would use Lignum for the sole only. I have made a couple of high angle planes (Krenov style), but I noticed that I don't use them as much as I thought I would. A standard 45degree plane with a good Hock blade can tackle a lot of stuff. For anything beyond the capability of a standard smoother I go straight to scrapers.

As for adding extra weight, I don't like that either. For me the lower weight of wooden planes compared to equivalent iron planes is what adds to the charm of wood on wood.

But you can try it out both way, with and without added weight, and deiced for yourself. Just make two of each componant when you are making the plane.

[Brian J. Williams]

Thanks for all of the input. My current need is based on some gorgeous quarter-sawn white oak I'm working on (new Stickley sofa for the wife). My 4-1/2 with the standard Stanley iron just can't hack it on the very highly figured areas. (I haven't tried back-beveling yet, and I need to order another new stock iron to try that.) I have been considering a Hock iron for my current 4-!/2, but I'd almost like to find another 4-1/2 body in which to install the Hock iron and leave my current 4-1/2 set up as-is. I once tried a Norris A6 (owned by a friend) and I think that would be just the ticket, but the relative $$$$$ makes that not very likely.

Since I'm new to the forum (as of just the other day), I should introduce myself. I engineer by day and make fine shavings of wood at night. I really love to work in wood. I used to build custom gunstocks (including pillar bedding, checkering, silver inlays, etc.,etc.), but after getting married, I don't have sufficient time to meet my former client schedules/demand. So, I mostly build furniture for my wife and relatives (chests, desks, bookcases, coffee tables, simple chairs, and other odd little items).

In the last few years, I've focused on learning the old tools and the better way. I sold my Delta jointer this last Thanksgiving, but I've kept my table saw and my grandfather's 1940's vintage bench-top Craftsman lathe. As far as planes, I have two #3's (1 Stanley, 1 Millers-Falls), two #4's, a #4-1/2, two #5's, a #6, a #7, a #10, a #10-1/2, a complete 45, two 62-1/2's, and a 78 (all Stanley). The 4-1/2 works great on almost everything, but.... I also have a variety of older wood-body jack, rebate, and moulding planes. I really like my LV large shoulder plane, as it does plane with authority. I'm probably going to add the LV router plane soon, and I'm now looking around for better saws to add to the shop. My chisels are mostly Diefenbacher (they take and keep a nice edge), but I have a small assortment of old Buck-type mortising chisels (and will add more given the chance).

As far as the high-angle wood-body I discussed in my original post, and being the engineering type, I'm probably going to sit down and pencil out a couple of different designs of wooden bodies, and play around a little with paper designs (how much lead and where in the body) before I actually glue up the test beds. As I think about this now, this may be a several-month process. Ah, but the joy of taking thin slices.

Brian

[Pam Niedermayer]

Brian, you may want to take a look at the HNT Gordon smoothers (http://www.hntgordon.com.au/prodcatsmoother.htm ) for some design ideas. Terry's blades are bedded at 60° and can be reverse mounted for scraping duties. What's more, the blades are available. They work great, very close to my Japanese smoothers.

Pam

[Ken Werner]

Brian,
If you want to try a high angle plane, why not take one of your #4s and hone a 5 or 10 degree back bevel on it. You can hone just a very short area, 1/32" or so, that will give you the 50 or 55 degree pitch respectively, to experiment with. I did that recently and am pleased with the results.

[Ron Brese]

Brian,

To add mass you could just use a 1/2" thick brass lever cap in lieu of a wooden wedge to hold fast your iron in the wooden bodied plane. This would put the weight right over the business end of the iron and would not add additional parts to the plane.

Ron Brese

[josh bjork]

Brian,
If you want to try a high angle plane, why not take one of your #4s and hone a 5 or 10 degree back bevel on it. You can hone just a very short area, 1/32" or so, that will give you the 50 or 55 degree pitch respectively, to experiment with. I did that recently and am pleased with the results.

X2Brian, you are set to reinvent the wheel here but crank up a back bevel on one of the #4's and get the job done. Or on whatever kind of plane you prefer. I'd try 60 degrees because that is what the premium planes seem to offer anyway. I got the baby Hong Kong plane for Christmas and I'm eyeing the full sized one now. I don't think $50 is a lot of $ and I'm a tightwad. I tried to make a couple planes but they take time and mine all have some weird quirk.

[Glenn Madsen]

Take a look at www.knighttoolworks.com for what Steve does with high angle smoothers. Although last I saw, he may be changing his offers.

My high angle smoother is from him. Ipe sole, 55* iron, coffin shape, some Central American wood, I forget which, for the body. And it works well. Lighter than a 4.5 Bailey. Does a super job. And not too pricey. Steve sells too cheaply, IMO.

Best wishes with the white oak!

[Steve knight]

got to watch using lignum vitae. one problem is it dry? the stuff takes forever to dry. the second is how to glue it. glue does not really stick to it. I found hot melt poly did PUR but it is not practical building a plane with it. so even for sole material you really want some T&G's or such to make sure it stays put. it also moves differently so it could pop off that way too.
adding extra weight to high angle planes really makes them work better. I don't like a high angle plane without the added weight it just is too much work to use and it does not cut as cleanly I don't think.
I drill holes in the main body front and back and fill them with lead shot and epoxy. I balance them as much as I can.

[Marcus Ward]

If you're using QSWO the problem isn't so much figure, like planing burl, as it is just reversing grain. I tend to use a #80 scraper all the time for this stuff and it works great.

[Brian Kent]

I got the baby Hong Kong plane for Christmas and I'm eyeing the full sized one now. I don't think $50 is a lot of $ and I'm a tightwad.


That's the one I use. It works so well. Last night I was planing some walnut with really strange grain. None of the other planes worked. Everything caused tearout. The Hong Kong (Mujingfang) high angle polish plane came through again. At one point I reversed the blade and had a scraper plane.

They are solid, effective, beautiful, and come with A2 blades, for not much more than an A2 blade alone.

After they received very high reviews in a High Angle Smoother review a couple of years ago, I am pretty surprised that more people don't use them.