Time for a Dust Collector

[Brandon Shew]

So my planer is telling me that it's time for a Dust Collector for the new shop. My shop is very small (12' x 16'). I want to put the dust collector in a back corner and try to leave it as stationary as possible (read - I really don't want to have to move it around). I have toyed with the idea of building a small enclosed room off the back of the shed to house the unit to reduce the noise, but that would be later down the line.

Based on the size of my shop and the fact that I don't want to roll the collector from machine to machine, I figure that I need at least a 2 HP machine so I can have a few 10 foot runs of solid pipe w/ blast gates, and flex pipe to the machines. I was looking at the Griz G1029Z. It's on sale now for $259 & includes a free 2 stage separator (garbage can lid).

I'd be willing to consider a small cyclone, but I don't think that there's anything in the sub $500 range in the cyclone market. Thoughts or comments appreciated.

[Art Mann]

I just looked up the specs of that machine on the Grizzly website and was not impressed. First of all, 2 HP is a lie. you can't get that much power out of 12A @ 120V. Secondly, the filters are 2.5 micron, which isn't adequate. The fact is, that machine looks awfully similar to the Harbor Freight collector that can usually be bought for around $150. A lot of people have bought that one, upgraded the filters, and still had a good performing machine for around $200.

In that class of machine, I would suggest the Delta 50-760 (or something like that). It comes with 1 micron filters and has a true 15A, 1.5 hp rating. It was rated the best in class by some magazine, the name of which I can't remember. It can be bought for around $250 on sale. I bought one for $200 on closeout at Lowe's.

[Scott Velie]

I have the 1092 and I am verry happy with it. I have a .5 micron bag on it and I use the (mine was free) cyclone can lid which works well.
It is amazing how fast it fills.
By the way 12 amps @ 220v does produce 2 HP.

Scott

[Art Mann]

By the way 12 amps @ 220v does produce 2 HP.
Scott

Sorry, not true. 120V * 12A = 1440 watts

1440W/746W per hp = 1.93 hp

But that assumes a 100% efficient motor and a unity power factor, which isn't possible.

Based on what other 12A, 120V motors actually deliver, I would guess the motor puts out about 1.5 hp maximum.:rolleyes:

I frown on companies that lie about their horsepower ratings.:( I am just surprised that Grizzly is apparently doing it.

[Victor Stearns]

This unit seems a little small. I think that when you attach a planer and start to run wider boards you will want something larger. I used a plan that was in WOOD magazine sometime ago. I was able to utilize some heavy sheet metal that was being discarded at work. Here is a photo. I do not think that I have invested more than $500 and am very happy with the results. I can hook this to my 18-inch planer without any problem picking up 90% of the chips. I was able to locate the plan at Woodcraft for $14.00. This might be worth a look.
Victor

[Brandon Shew]

Art - The Griz is a 220V 2 HP rating @ 12 A. 2.5 microns is a lot smaller than the 30 micron bags that most 2 HP collectors come with and it is much better than the no filtration that I have now - plus I can upgrade the filter bag as with any collector. Whether or not they are lying about their HP - ???

FWW did an article in last year's Tools & Shops edition about dust collection. From what I have read in that article, a 1.5 HP collector doesn't have enough power to pull 800 CFM +/- (for adequate collection) from more than about 4'-6' of flex hose which means that your Delta dust collector recommendation must be rolled around to each machine (which I am trying to avoid.)

As I indicated - I am not opposed to a small cyclone either. What I am looking for is recommendations and input. What I am throwing around is:

A) Get a basic 2 HP now that would be adequate for now (and better than what I have now - nothing) and then upgrade to the cyclone in a few years.
or
B) Suffer now with the shop vac, wait 6-8 Months and then buy a small cyclone.

I know that if I do it right the first time(i.e. cyclone), I'll only have to do it once, but I am wondering how much my lungs will suffer between now and then.


Victor - How long is that flex hose hooked up to that machine? Any rigid ducting in place? Any idea about CFM draw?

[Tim Marks]

By the way 12 amps @ 220v does produce 2 HP.

Sorry, not true. 120V * 12A = 1440 watts
1440W/746W per hp = 1.93 hp

:D:D:D:D:D

Little math error there, art. He said 220V not 120V.

220V*12A= 2640 Watts
2640W/746W per Hp = 3.5 Hp

2 out/3.5 in = 56% efficiency (OUCH!)

Just because it LOOKS like the HFDC (with its 120V 14 amp "2 HP" motor) doesn't mean it has the same wimpy motor.... I can understand your confusion.

[Bart Leetch]

I know that if I do it right the first time(i.e. cyclone), I'll only have to do it once, but I am wondering how much my lungs will suffer between now and then.





Brandon get a Dustbee gone mask & wear it. They are washable to keep your lungs clean. This way you can wait I get the cyclone.

[Billy Chambless]

So... how does one really go about determining how much DC power one needs?

[Art Mann]

Yeah, I missed the part about 220V.:o In that case, the horsepower seems low for the amount of current. But, it should certainly do the job.

I would still budget for replacement filters immediately before using it. I would consider that more important to protecting my health than achieving 700 - 800 cfm at the machine. That performance level is by no means an accepted standard. It is a rule that has been promoted largely by one person.

[Jay Brewer]

Hi Brandon. I have had the Grizzly for 3 years now and it has preformed well. I had it piped through the shop with PVC. I just sold it and am waiting for the Oneida to arrive tomorrow. The top bag does alot better that the others with 30 micron bags. I did have it hooked up to the trash can separator, which made it easy to empty, but there was a loss in suction.

You mentioned in one of your post about needing 800 cfm at the planer. Im not an expert but that might be asking a little to much from it if you have long runs of pipe. Also take the manufactures CFM ratings on these with a grain of salt, kinda like a 6 hp shop vac:)

[Matt Day]

I've got the 1.5 HP Delta (probably same motor as the Griz when it comes down to it) with the 1 micron bag. I am in the same boat and have a pretty small shop and don't want (and can't) wheel around the DC, so I have a couple blast gates and am running the 4' (or is it 6') to my jointer, a 10' section to my TS, and a 10' section to my planer (all 4" diameter cheap stuff). I've had no problems with the power sucking all the chips from my planer.

I just ran about 40 bdft of wood through the jointer and planer with no problems, with boards up to 11" wide taking a decent cut too. I had three full bags of chips though!

I'd go with that Griz at that price.

[Tim Marks]

It is a rule that has been promoted largely by one person.
Yawn! Here we go again. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Brandon Shew]

You mentioned in one of your post about needing 800 cfm at the planer. Im not an expert but that might be asking a little to much from it if you have long runs of pipe. Also take the manufactures CFM ratings on these with a grain of salt, kinda like a 6 hp shop vac:)

I would have a max of 10' of pipe on any one run that was being used (my shop is only 12' x 16'). I know what you mean about the HP/CFM ratings. It tends to get a little frustrating. It would be nice to see the ratings across the board at a standardized static pressure to make it easier to compare.

[Charlie T. Bear]

So... how does one really go about determining how much DC power one needs?

I too would like to know this:confused:

[Joe Mioux]

how about a dust deputy from Oneida and your current vac.

this assumes that you will buy or build a cyclone down the road.

I am amazed what a cyclone does and how clean my filter has remained.

I have a Dust gorilla from Oneida and the filter is remarkably clean, even after two years.

just a bit of a different thought on this subject.

joe

[Brian Penning]

All this CFM stuff and specs...humbug! ;)
Does whatever DC unit one has do the job to one's satisfaction?
I have a General Int'l 1.5 HP unit that stays in place and have no problems sucking all the chips from whatever machine it's hooked up to. My planer & jointer are along the wall on the right and I simply connect the hose to whatever machine I need.
Shop is about 12 X 20
Awaiting the Sawstop

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f193/Bri68/Miscilaneous/IMG_2607.jpg?t=1199320144

[Bart Leetch]

[QUOTE=Brian Penning;734486]All this CFM stuff and specs...humbug! ;)
Does whatever DC unit one has do the job to one's satisfaction?
I have a General Int'l 1.5 HP unit that stays in place and have no problems sucking all the chips from whatever machine it's hooked up to. My planer & jointer are along the wall on the right and I simply connect the hose to whatever machine I need.
Shop is about 12 X 20
Awaiting the Sawstop

Its not the chips that do you physical harm its the fine dust. Your set up may get all the dust & chips but what others have may not. They need proper information so they can understand & make a proper decision to suit their needs or desires.

[Brian Penning]

[quote=Brian Penning;734486]All this CFM stuff and specs...humbug! ;)
Does whatever DC unit one has do the job to one's satisfaction?
I have a General Int'l 1.5 HP unit that stays in place and have no problems sucking all the chips from whatever machine it's hooked up to. My planer & jointer are along the wall on the right and I simply connect the hose to whatever machine I need.
Shop is about 12 X 20
Awaiting the Sawstop

Its not the chips that do you physical harm its the fine dust. Your set up may get all the dust & chips but what others have may not. They need proper information so they can understand & make a proper decision to suit their needs or desires.

Er...I think I get your point. Can't argue with it too much. But that being said imho I think there should be greater emphasis on getting the dust from sanding operations.
In comparison to the amount of fine dust that comes from running a jointer, planer, and TS the dust that comes from sanding(hand or machines) has got to be a heckuva lot more. When I'm finished squaring up stock on the above machines there's not all that much dust in the air. But you should see me after sanding..
Frankly, I've never really understand stressing huge honkin DC systems for these machines. Always felt the emphasis should be on things like downdraft tables or better connections to sanders.
Just my thoughts. (not in red or large type either)

[Joe Mioux]

All this CFM stuff and specs...humbug! ;)
Does whatever DC unit one has do the job to one's satisfaction?
I have a General Int'l 1.5 HP unit that stays in place and have no problems sucking all the chips from whatever machine it's hooked up to. My planer & jointer are along the wall on the right and I simply connect the hose to whatever machine I need.
Shop is about 12 X 20
Awaiting the Sawstop

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f193/Bri68/Miscilaneous/IMG_2607.jpg?t=1199320144

That is a nice clean shop, Brian. ;)

btw, nice chair!

joe

[Dwayne Watt]

The answer to "how big" when it comes to dust collection can only be answered by calculating the air flow requirements for the tools in a particular shop and the resulting necessary duct sizes. There are calculators and guidelines all over the internet to help answer the questions which must be asked to optimize the performance of any form of dust collection system. The rest of us used at least some of the following series of experiences before arriving at a system design that fully meets our particular needs and circumstances.

From a purely practical perspective, logic dictates that almost anything is better than nothing. One finds out very soon that a shop fills with dust and chips when no collection is used. The next step to overcome the mess factor is the shop vac which works so-so for some things and not good whatsoever for others. Dust still covers the flat surfaces but clean up is quicker. This must be good, right? The coughing and dirty nose clears up within a few hours. Have I ever had bronchitis (walking pneumonia) more than once in a year before taking up this hobby?

Then we step up to the dust collector (it's only $249 plus wiring, garbage can, separator lid, hose, fittings, collector hoods, duct pipe (PVC or metal, that's another thread)) with 30 micron filter bags which later are replaced with 0.5 micron bags or perhaps cartridge filter(s). This just might the end point in the odessey if used judiciously. Dust is reduced during most, if not all, shop operations and apparent respiratory distress is also reduced. BUT, emptying the garbage can separator and cleaning the filter bag produces concentrated dust clouds that take all afternoon to settle (even the air cleaner chokes on this dust). So much for working in the shop today and maybe tomorrow.

The last step is some form of a cyclone separator/filter system with properly sized duct work. We look all over the internet for advice on the "best system" and the proper type of duct work to use. We agonize over the cost since we already spent $700-800 or more trying to make the original $250 collector work acceptably, but eventually a system is designed and installed. After the first project is completed, we realize the shop remains much cleaner except for the mess thrown off by the table saw (still need that over arm collection) and we privately gloat over the wonderfully quiet system we have installed. Oh yeah, respiratory distress is virtually nonexistent now. The air cleaner filters still need to be cleaned (just not as often). The system filter cleaning problem is gone (unless you neglect to check and empty the barrel occasionally). Emptying the barrel is virtually dust free job as long as you use large bags that can be closed before disturbing the debris.

So, the answer to the question of "how big" is "big enough to protect your lungs". Unfortunately, there is no easy solution to the answer. :)