HF Mini Dust Collector not too shabby

[Phil Thien]

After posting my thread about my new Thien Cyclone Separator Lid/Baffle design (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=69765), I got quite a few E-Mails from people asking whether anyone had scaled it up to 4" ports. I had made larger units but never for myself.

Some time ago I purchased one of those little Harbor Freight mini portable dust collectors. I got a helluva deal on it ($70 after stacking some discounts). But, it sat unused for a while because I was pretty happy with my Ridgid vac-based cyclone. Here is the HF collector I'm reffering to:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94029 (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94029)

HF claims 914-CFM and 9.4" of SP. We know that the CFM is nonsense, though. It has a single 4" inlet. According to BP a 4" pipe can carry (max.) about 400-CFM. My somewhat scientific testing (using two different anemometers) seems to indicate that this unit pulls about 370-CFM.

This unit is only twenty pounds but achieves some pretty impressive specs for its size by using a universal motor spinning a small airfoil type impeller at 6400-RPM (typical DC's use radial impellers spinning at half that speed).

So I decided I'd build a scaled-up Thien Separator Lid to keep as my own. I started w/ a 30-gallon can and an MDF top. Added 4" fittings and my baffle and did some additional testing. I was happy to discover that adding the cyclone lid only causes an 18% hit to my CFM (pretty spectacular by cyclone standards).

I also had a chance to try connecting the entire assembly to my router table's downdraft box. I had to do this with a 2.25" reducer to a 2.25" hose, so NOT optimum. I was stunned to discover that airflow through the tiny (1.5"?) aperture in my router lift was sucking plenty of air. I had always imagined that real dust collectors would have difficulty moving air through such small holes, but this clearly isn't so, plenty of SP here.

I did limited testing with actual dust because I only have the stock (30-micron) bag filter for the DC at this time. It was able to separate 98.7% (by weight) of the dust I fed it (mostly fines from machining MDF and hardboard). It was perhaps a little better but I did have difficulty gathering all the dust from the garbage can when I was done with the test.

I had previously posted that the DC is noisy. It still is. Part of that is the noise form the air movement, but certainly part of it is the universal motor, too. Still impressed with what a $70 machine can do, though. While this still doesn't provide the 600-800 CFM that some say is needed for fines collection, it is providing over twice the CFM of my current solution and is still compact enough to use, so it will become my new DC until I can make my giant separator lid with 6" outlet and twin 4" inlets, and run 6" PVC to my tools (yeah, right).

[Lance Norris]

Phil... I know you show the plans here at SMC so people can build your version of the separator lid, but are you offering or have any plans to offer the 4"in-4"out version of your separator lid for sale?

[Phil Thien]

Phil... I know you show the plans here at SMC so people can build your version of the separator lid, but are you offering or have any plans to offer the 4"in-4"out version of your separator lid for sale?

I've thought about having tops and baffles CNC cut and sold as a kit. The purchaser would have to supply their own fittings. Problem is, due to the way the tops and baffles fit, you'd have to use the exact same garbage can the design is intended for.

[Art Mann]

Hi Phil,

I have read your work on home made separators with great interest. This adaptation of the cheap HF dust collector looks particularly useful. I think you ought to write up your work and submit it to some of the woodworking magazines. I believe it is the kind of project that would go over pretty big. It would get you the recognition you deserve and maybe some financial rewards as well.

Art

[Phil Thien]

Hi Phil,

I have read your work on home made separators with great interest. This adaptation of the cheap HF dust collector looks particularly useful. I think you ought to write up your work and submit it to some of the woodworking magazines. I believe it is the kind of project that would go over pretty big. It would get you the recognition you deserve and maybe some financial rewards as well.

Art

I think the magazines frown on that as I'm attempting to achieve a patent and they want the rights to the article and ideas in the article.

[Jeff Sudmeier]

I think the magazines frown on that as I'm attempting to achieve a patent and they want the rights to the article and ideas in the article.

You're 100% correct :)

[Tim Marks]

This unit is only twenty pounds but achieves some pretty impressive specs for its size by using a universal motor spinning a small airfoil type impeller at 6400-RPM
I bet it is really impressive when you accidently suck up a loose nut or bolt (or crescent wrench)... oh wait, that is what your seperator is for.

[Jack Ganssle]

I think the magazines frown on that as I'm attempting to achieve a patent and they want the rights to the article and ideas in the article.

Phil,

Check the contract. I've written hundreds of articles (none on woodworking) and the mags I've worked with typically only want 1st North American rights. After a few months (specified in the contract) you own the work.

YMMV depending on the contract. But, some mags are pretty lenient in accepting changes to their standard terms and conditions.

Jack

[Chris Stolicky]

....so it will become my new DC until I can make my giant separator lid with 6" outlet and twin 4" inlets, and run 6" PVC to my tools (yeah, right).

Phil,

Thank very much for the effort and research you have put into the art of pre-separation.

I have a question that may belong as a new thread, but I will start it here. Have you looked into constructing a separating lid using 5" diameter inlet and outlet ports?

I recently purchased the 50-760 and will be running 6" metal ducts around my small shop, but I also want a separator right before the unit. Since it has a 5" inlet, the theory (in my mind) is that is would choke it less that 4" ports. Your insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again.

[Mike Goetzke]

Phil,

Thank very much for the effort and research you have put into the art of pre-separation.

I have a question that may belong as a new thread, but I will start it here. Have you looked into constructing a separating lid using 5" diameter inlet and outlet ports?

I recently purchased the 50-760 and will be running 6" metal ducts around my small shop, but I also want a separator right before the unit. Since it has a 5" inlet, the theory (in my mind) is that is would choke it less that 4" ports. Your insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again.

Chris - why not just put a baffle in your seperator? See my post:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=80701

I got the design details form someone on Phil's web page.


Mike

[Steve Sawyer]

Phil - I recently constructed a chip separator from a 30 gallon plastic barrel, and fitted the MDF top with 4" ports and a baffle of your design.

This is connected to a HF 2 HP DC unit equipped with a Wynn Environmental .5 micron cartridge through a short (about 12 feet) run of 4" ducting.

I have been absolutely amazed at how well this setup is working. So far everything is running through the chip separator, and I swear it'll be a year or more before the dust bag on the DC needs to be emptied, and I'm getting no dust build-up on the cartridge filter at all.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3201/2295500064_57834d133f.jpg

[Chris Stolicky]

Chris - why not just put a baffle in your seperator? See my post:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=80701

I got the design details form someone on Phil's web page.

Mike

I guess I am more willing to sacrifice some airflow for the convenience of not having to mess with the plastic bag as much. It would be much faster and easier to empty the garbage can.

It is certainly an idea that I had forgotten about.

Thanks.

[Dave MacArthur]

Steve Sawyer-- neat setup, but what I really want to know is what is that table saw extension top made out of ?

I read up above that the HF is pretty noisy, and thought I'd go on the record, since I've never really seen anyone highlight it, my Delta 50-760 is pretty quiet--much quieter than I expected! You can certainly have a conversation over it, which is about 65 db, and I would have no problem placing it outside my garage and just 5 feet away from neighbors--they wouldn't hear it with windows closed. Up above someone said it had a universal motor... I had assumed all of them had the same type.

[Mike Goetzke]

I guess I am more willing to sacrifice some airflow for the convenience of not having to mess with the plastic bag as much. It would be much faster and easier to empty the garbage can.

It is certainly an idea that I had forgotten about.

Thanks.

I currently have a Jet DC1100 w/ cartridge but used to have a HF. I agree with you on the bag being a pain to c/o on the HF but the Jet has a flex ring that snaps into the ID of the metal ring that makes life much easier.

[Steve Sawyer]

The table saw extensions are 1" thick MDF faced with some kind of hardwood veneer - looks like beech but I can't say exactly what it is - and edged with some 1x3 red oak. Much better than the stamped steel wings that originally came with the saw. I salvaged several panels of this stuff from my employer when we moved to new offices about a year ago. I have a 32x48 section of this stuff that I'm using for the top of an assembly bench.

As to noise, the HF is actually pretty quiet - you can talk easily while standing right in front of it, and it's quieter than the 1HP Delta that it replaces.

[Shawn Honeychurch]

I read up above that the HF is pretty noisy,

Why not build the HF into a small foam lined box with air inlets on the bottom, build the seperator can on top of it, with the baffle top on top, and then run run rigid PVC up the side of the can from the HF to the air inlet baffle?

That would quiet it down a lot, and maximize the air flow as the only flex piece would be to the tool itself.

Shawn

[Chris Stolicky]

I currently have a Jet DC1100 w/ cartridge but used to have a HF. I agree with you on the bag being a pain to c/o on the HF but the Jet has a flex ring that snaps into the ID of the metal ring that makes life much easier.

You know, its kind of funny that I am commenting on my 50-760 and have yet to actually put it together yet. Lot's of research though! :D If I remember correctly, the recent test in Wood mag. commented that the 50-760 is one of the easier bags to work with.

I do have the small HF discussed above run though a garbage can separator (woodcraft version) that I drag to each tool as I use it. I am tired of doing that, but keep finding other things to build rather than run the ducts for the DC.

[Phil Thien]

Phil - I recently constructed a chip separator from a 30 gallon plastic barrel, and fitted the MDF top with 4" ports and a baffle of your design.


Excellent job, Steve! Great attention to detail (like the hold-down clamps).

[Ray Schafer]

Can you tell me how much that setup cost? I need to start on some DC and don't know where to start. Your setup looks great if not too expensive.

[Steve Sawyer]

Excellent job, Steve! Great attention to detail (like the hold-down clamps).

Actually, those are turn-buckles. I thought of hold-down clamps of some kind but the turnbuckles were cheaper and available.:)

[Ken Ganshirt]

Actually, those are turn-buckles. I thought of hold-down clamps of some kind but the turnbuckles were cheaper and available.:)
Were you able to mount them with a bit of clearance? Or are they knuckle-busters? A close-up pic would be nice.

...ken...

[Steve Sawyer]

Were you able to mount them with a bit of clearance? Or are they knuckle-busters? A close-up pic would be nice.

There's enough clearance to get 'em finger-tight, which is all I bother with. The upper end is a hook that I disengage from the screw-eye after loosening.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3083/2384295550_c8d8dbf3f1_o.jpg

Here's a shot of the guts:

http://semiww.org/forum/download/file.php?id=22&t=1

[Steve Sawyer]

Lessee...the drum cost $5 from a place that takes 'em back from a customer after the customer empties the product from them (tomato paste in a plastic liner I think - the drum was clean). You can also get fiber drums that work just as well and are a bit lighter. They cost about $40 new but if you can find someone who discards them... The fiber drums also come with these nice metal lids that clamp onto the drum into which you can mount the nipples and to which you can mount the baffle.

The MDF was about $10 at the BORG (a 24" x 48" piece - there is a smaller disc inside just to make it sit on top of the drum nicely). $2 for the weatherstripping to form a gasket at the top of the drum adhered with some 3M super weatherstrip adhesive I had laying around. About $3 for the 5/16" threaded rod to mount the baffle, $5 apiece for the 4" nipples, maybe $15 for the turnbuckles, screws, nuts, fender washers (for the threaded rod) screw eyes, bolt eyes etc. $2-$3 for the melamine edge banding.

The baffle is laminated from two pieces of 1/8" particle board cut from a 24" x 48" sheet I had laying around, so that was "free".

[Ken Ganshirt]

Thanks for the pictures, Steve. That's perfect. I have one of those barrels sitting out behind the shop, just waiting for me to figure out how to do the top. Thanks to you and Phil for solving my problem of what to do with it. That should go very nicely with the shiny new Delta 50-760 I picked up a couple of weeks ago.

...ken...

[Ray Schafer]

There was an article in one of the recent Fine Woodworking magazines that showed how to make an acoustic batting lined box for a shop vac. You could do the same thing for the mini HF DC.

I am thinking about making one for my shop vac with a spot on the top for the trash-can separator with Phil's baffle.