Small gloat and plane tuning question

[Micah Carter]

Picked up a brand new No. 9-1/2 and No. 5 Bailey the other day, my x-mas present to myself. I'm in the process of tuning up the block plane now, and this is ridiculous! When I jointed the sole of my old 9-1/4 flat, it took about 5 minutes on some 150-grit paper stuck to plate glass. I'm about an hour and a half into the 9-1/2, and it is still slightly concave. There's an area about the size of two nickels just behind the throat that still shows factory grinder marks. Is this normal??? I can't imagine truing up the sole of the No. 5 if it is nearly as bad... it could take days. Is there a faster/better way to do this?

[Mark Stutz]

If eveything else is in plane, I would call it a day. I have a very obvious depression in the sole of my #5, but eveything else is good, and it has no effect. Can use it as a smoother if I wanted to.

Mark

[Danny Thompson]

I tried a lot of different abrasives and techniques on my #4 rehab and found the only one that worked aggressively enough was 120 grit automotive sandpaper (purple) from my local Autozone. The technique was to tape the paper to my substrate (granite slab for me, but I'm sure glass is fine) and turn it with it's side toward me, grab the plane by the knob and tote and push the plane directly away from me 5 strokes, flip the plane, then 5 more . . . After about an hour and a half of this, it was true and flat.

[Micah Carter]

Thanks for the advice... I'll try the automotive sandpaper. I'm sure the block plane would work fine with a slight depression, but it's kinda a personal preference... I'd like for the sole to be perfectly flat and polished even if it's just for aesthetic purposes.

Which brings me to another question: Will buffing the sole with some jeweler's rouge remove enough material to un-true it? I think it'd be nice to have a mirror polish if it's feasible.

[Marcus Ward]

Sometimes when you try to flatten a plane used abrasive and metal bits will build up under the plane in the center and cause it to not cut that part of the sole and make it look like it's concave when it's not, or can't be flattened because that stuff builds up. Frequently pick the plane up and vacuum the abrasive and waste off so you've got a clean sheet. I use a belt grinder to flatten block planes. :)

[John Dykes]

I'm working through my first rehab job on a #5. I'm using 60 and 100 grit Norton 3x to get the sole flat. It seems to me the cutting action of the sandpaper drops dramatically in the first 10 minutes of use.... I don't mind sweating - but having to refresh sandpaper every 15 minutes is adding up... thoughts?

jbd

[Jim Koepke]

Which brings me to another question: Will buffing the sole with some jeweler's rouge remove enough material to un-true it? I think it'd be nice to have a mirror polish if it's feasible.

Think about the reason plane makers gave us corrugated soles on planes.
If the surface is too smooth, it can increase the friction against the surface being planed.
Other than that, rouge should remove very little material. I was looking for my rouge a while back to do some stropping.

Besides, a mirror polish on the bottom would soon be scratched up by some hard wood. If it can dull a blade it can dull an iron mirror.

Jim

[Marcus Ward]

John - get some Zirconia Aluminia beltsander belts and cut them open into strips to flatten the sole with. However, did you use the plane before you started on it? Was the sole out of flat enough to affect the use? I don't mess with flattening anything anymore until I see if it works as is. Most of the time they do.

[Clint Jones]

I don't mess with flattening anything anymore until I see if it works as is. Most of the time they do.

BINGO! Very good advice. -Clint

[John Dykes]

Admittedly - I didn't use the plane first. While busting the rust off - I watched the David Charlesworth videos again and re-read some articles. This sole flattening business seems paramount. Perhaps I have the wrong goal in mind for my first rehab. But to watch Mr. Charlesworth push that plane across his sycamore and the sound it makes... holy smokes! He barely seems to push to get a cut. I'm getting there I think... I can take a shaving from a "stock" (I haven't touched it) Hock blade that I can read newsprint through in poplar.

To be honest, the sole was pretty dog-gone flat to begin with. There is a dime size area that is a bit shallow on the back left corner - but I figure it's ok.

This rehabbing stuff seems to be pretty easy outside of the lapping: checking for lost damaged parts, busting rust, flattening\smoothing the frog - and slapping in a new Hock blade \ chip breaker.

Pretty happy with it.... Check that - very happy with it.

Thanks fellas -

Respectfully,
- jbd in Denver

[Glenn Madsen]

Rehabs are fine, but now you can see why there is a market for LN and LV new, ready-to-go beauties. Some of us want to work with the wood.

When I want an oldie, I email one of the old-tool purveyors, and get something someone else has laid eyes on first. Life's too short for some things.

Have fun working on the tools!

[Marcus Ward]

I just realized you said these are brand new planes. You mean like new store bought new out of the box? If so yeah they're gonna be horrible to flatten. I bought my dad a new 60 1/2 and had to hang it on the belt sander for a while to get it flat. The sole was so effed up it was unusable.


Picked up a brand new No. 9-1/2 and No. 5 Bailey the other day, my x-mas present to myself. I'm in the process of tuning up the block plane now, and this is ridiculous! When I jointed the sole of my old 9-1/4 flat, it took about 5 minutes on some 150-grit paper stuck to plate glass. I'm about an hour and a half into the 9-1/2, and it is still slightly concave. There's an area about the size of two nickels just behind the throat that still shows factory grinder marks. Is this normal??? I can't imagine truing up the sole of the No. 5 if it is nearly as bad... it could take days. Is there a faster/better way to do this?

[Craig Che]

I just realized you said these are brand new planes. You mean like new store bought new out of the box? If so yeah they're gonna be horrible to flatten. I bought my dad a new 60 1/2 and had to hang it on the belt sander for a while to get it flat. The sole was so effed up it was unusable.

So is this why something like Groz planes, new for $30, aren't talked about on here? I am looking at getting a plane or two starting my collection but not sure if I want to spend my entire budget on a single plane (assuming I can't find a nice one used).

[Marcus Ward]

Yes, the Groz planes, and Anant too, suffer from poor machining and casting and require significant work, usually in excess of what a vintage stanley would require, to be used. There are plenty, tons, loads, of nice old planes for sale. No reason to buy new unless you can really afford it.

[Danny Thompson]

You will find a variety of opinions, but I believe most can agree on the following:

If you are buying your first real plane, there are two safe options, a risky option, and others that shouldn't be considered.

Two safe options:
- buy a high quality new plane (e.g., Veritas/Lee Valley or Lie-Nielsen [my preference]
cons: $$ initial cost
pros: get right to work, high resale value

- under the guidance of a knowledgable mentor/advisor or from a reputable dealer, buy and, if necessary, restore a common quality old plane (e.g., Stanley Bailey Type 11)
pros: get a great tool for less money
cons: requires you to find a mentor and may require some rehab before you can get to work

One risky option:
- buy a common quality old plane and rehab it on your own
pros: cheapest in the short run
cons: may be most expensive option in the long run, particularly if you end up with a lemon

Not an option:
- buy a new (< 50 years old) common quality plane (e.g., Stanley, Groz, Anant)
pros: your wife won't notice you bought it
cons: you will give up woodworking before you get it right
- buy a high-end, boutique, custom infill plane (e.g., Marcou, Hotley)
pros: beautiful piece of work
cons: you will be too scared to use it

[Zahid Naqvi]

Micah, the only three critical points on a plane that must be coplaner are: the front end of the sole(toe), the back end (heel) and the area just in front of the blade(mouth). The rest can be concave and it will not impact the performance of the plane.

If you really want to be agressive on abbrasives, try the drywall mesh screen. Be forewarned though it cuts very aggressively.

[Craig Che]

Ok, what are some vendors/people to buy older refabbed planes from? I don't know anyone around here that could mentor me (volunteers?? seattle or north of).

[Randal Stevenson]

Ok, what are some vendors/people to buy older refabbed planes from? I don't know anyone around here that could mentor me (volunteers?? seattle or north of).


From Woodnet, Rarebear or Lenard (spelling?) Bailey who is Clint Jones from here. If you search for Clint, he has also had some other people he said you could get some from (although I think he said some are good, just not finished).