Do you really have a guard on your table saw?

[Scott Velie]

I admit it. My table saw guard is hanging on the wall. It has been there for a long time.
How about all of you?

Scott

[Robert Bassett]

Yes. I became a believer when I sliced y thumb pretty bad.

[Bill Lantry]

Mine's on the saw. For every cut. *EVERY* cut.

Others may pick and choose as they wish, but as for me, give me fingers, or let me find something else to do... ;)

Thanks,

Bill

[Greg Just]

My saw is 25 years old and i have no idea where the guard is. With that said, I am very careful operating the TS and have great respect for the blade.

[James Hart]

I use the POC original guard that came with my PM 66 on every cut except non-through cuts where I can't.

I have a guard on order from Lee Tyron, looks like it's much more user friendly.

Jim

[Scott Velie]

Bill,
Don't get me wrong I am not against guards. I make a lot of cuts that cannot be made with the guard on. I just got tired of removing and installing it.

Scott

[Charles Green]

I use a shark guard on every cut that I can. I try to avoid the cuts that require it to be removed. I like the protection and the dust collection is nice too.

[Nissim Avrahami]

Yeap, all the time except when I work with the crosscut sled.

I had only one time "occasional contact with the blade" but ah....the guard was on the way so I could not cut my hand....:)

Many people are not using the guard because they like to "see how the blade is cutting the wood" or something like that...When I'm cutting, I'm looking at the fence because I have a lot of confidence that the blade does cut the wood but for me it's mote important to see that the wood is always attached to the fence...

Saying that, I don't blame anyone that removes the guard because, the poor design is simply encouraging to remove it...

Here are 2 pics of my blade guard, you can see the notch...

Regards
niki


http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb151/matsukawa/Guard1.jpg


http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb151/matsukawa/Guard2.jpg

[Mark Carlson]

The guard that came with my cabinet saw is stored away somewhere. Never got installed. My shark guard on the other hand is used for almost every cut, rip and cross cut.

~mark

[Matt Bickford]

I love this question. I haven't been in too many shops, but I really don't think I have ever seen a guard on a table saw. I have personally never used one. I don't kid myself by believing that my level of awareness is high enough that I don't need one. I have just never used one or seen one in use, so I never put it on.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Mine stays on the saw EXCEPT for cuts that force me to remove it.

[Jim Becker]

Riving knife 100% of the time. Guard, rarely, but the one I have now is certainly more comfortable to use since it attaches to the top of the riving knife quickly and easily. The issue with the "stock" guards on way too many American design saws is that they are a pain in the you-know-what to take off and put back on...so many folks don't bother. And when you remove the guard (either forever or for a non-through cut), you also are removing the most important part of the assembly...the splitter. Fortunately, all new model saws are shortly going to have to be released with a true riving knife which follows the blade up and down and can stay on the machine for non-through cuts. That will solve a good part of the problem for at least the folks buying a new model machine.

[Richard Dragin]

No guard but I plan on ordering a Shark Guard soon.

I am sure this will sound shocking to many but in all the shops I have worked in (entertainment industry so I have worked in a LOT of differant shops) splitters are unheard of. Some of the studios have purchased Saw Stops and they have the knife/guard which stays on because of the dust collection not working without it. Because of OSHA there is a lot of harping to keep the guards on but that doesn't seem to keep guys from doing what they are accustomed to.

[Bruce Page]

Nope. Never even put it on when I was setting up my Unisaw.

I do use my snap in splitter faithfully.

[Mike Cutler]

The stock OEM Guard was never installed. I do have an overhead blade guard/ DC pickup that I use most of the time. I need to install a riving knife though.:o

[Dave Lehnert]

I use the guard on my Jet all the time. I never did understand why most don't.
Yes! PITA to take off and on but so is cutting your hand off.

[David G Baker]

I have an old Craftsman that was used when I bought it from an old carpenter that built houses. The first thing he did was toss the blade guard after buying the saw so it didn't come with a guard. After reading a few horror stories, if I buy a new saw it will have all of the safety equipment.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Nope.
SMC says that "nope" was too short a message so you are being afflicted with this.

[Rick Gifford]

I will be honest. I do not. I use push sticks and anything else I can think of like crazy though. I need the guard back on there and plan to do that. But... I usually take them off and hang the on the wall.

Shame on me for that.

[Rich Dorffer]

My father (70+ years young) working as a carpenter his entire life (both his profession and his hobby), I hate to think how many hours he has spent building and working in his shop. Never had a guard on his table saw....ever. He saw and heard all the horror stories of his peers, friends who cut off their hands, fingers, etc.

This month, he cut himself on his table saw for the first time ever. He was cutting some Plexiglas and was watching it on the fence side not minding his hands and he cut into the edge of his middle finger. The cut was pretty bad in that it sliced off the edge of his finger to the second knuckle and with all the silly cholesterol drugs they make him take (despite never having an issue with his cholesterol but I digress), he bleeds like a stuck pig any time he cuts himself.

I have a new Bosch 4100, I will always use the riving knife and will try to use the guard but old habits die hard, I learned on a saw that never had a guard.

Regards,

Rich

[Mike Marcade]

Splitter ... yes, Guard ... no (currently in the attic storage area)

[Frank Caponi]

I build doors and some of the time a Blade Guard is a genuine pain in the ... - When I do have to use one I like my HTC Brett Guard - It just floats above the work - I can see thru it without a problem (after I clean it - lol) Since it is over my work and mounted on the port side of the saw with no parts making contact with my table it serves me well - I never have to rip sheet goods so it is not an issue - But - It does unmount quickly if I ever need to


http://www.htcproductsinc.com/bgom.html

[Brian Penning]

Mine is still in it's original package.

[Christopher Pine]

Nope I think I know where it is though

[RickT Harding]

Got a shark guard a few months ago and using the TS is much more enjoyable. I think the key is getting a guard that's not a pita to use. Makes a huge difference.

[Dave Cav]

I have a Grizzly 1023 and I never installed the guard. I use a zero clearence insert, so I had to make a splitter that would work with it, and I always use the splitter unless I'm making a non-full depth cut. We have a Unisaw at work with an overarm guard and I always make the students use it, but I frequently move it out of the way when I am doing a demonstration so they can see what is going on. We always have plenty of big push sticks available, too, and when I am having the kids set the saw up I make a point to check (or have them check) to make sure there is room for the push stick next to the guard.

We have ordered 10" Safe Stop saws for all of our high school shops and I am REALLY looking forward to getting mine and getting rid of the Unisaw.

[David Tiell]

I bought my cabinet saw used, and they didn't give me the correct guard for it, so I ordered a shark guard from Lee. It got here a couple weeks ago, and while I have not installed the guard yet, I have at least installed the splitter. The guard will be installed this week.

[Brian Clevenger]

I've been using a Shark Guard for a couple of years now. I originally bought it for my Sears 22124 saw, then Lee swapped out the splitters to move it to my Powermatic 66.

[Robert Waddell]

I've got two TS's and no guard installed. I wish I could use one. 95% of the cuts I make won't allow guards. I rip small width pieces using a thin kerf blade on one saw. The other saw is set-up with a sled for crosscuts. I think if I was doing furniture or cabinets a guard would be in place.
rob

[Mike Henderson]

I don't use a blade guard on my table saw. I've been taking woodworking classes at Cerritos and they don't have blade guards on their saws either. They're very strict about using a splitter, however.

Mike

[Lance Norris]

Splitter ... yes, Guard ... no

Im the same.

[George Bregar]

Sometimes when possible.

[Ed Ditto]

I use a guard on every rip cut, and when I'm using a crosscut or miter sled I use a hold-down clamp. I accidentally brushed the back of my birdie finger across the bare tip of a spinning TS blade a couple of years ago. Just a cut and a tiny scar; no permanent damage. But it put The Fear in my soul, I'll tell you that for sure.

Ed

[Jon Lanier]

What's a guard? Is that the thing that comes with the saw that goes over the sawblade hole? I thought that was just for shipping protection. :rolleyes:

[Norman Pyles]

Not using it now, but I am going to get one in the future with dust collection. I do use the MJ pro splitter. If the gaurd that came with my saw was any good, I would have used it.

[Thomas Williams]

I use the guard occasionally but I do use a splitter for all through cuts.

[John Gornall]

I have used table saws continuously for over 45 years. I started working in a shop in my teens and was fortunate to have a shop boss that took safety seriously.

There are many cut situations on a table saw. No single safety setup is correct for all situations. Ripping thin strips, cross cutting hardwood boards, cutting full sheets of plywood, dadoing drawer sides, all need different approaches.

My boss in those days had seen his share of blood on saw tables and was determined there would be no more.

There were clear shop rules for each type of cut to ensure safety. There was a plywood box that clamped onto the table for ripping thin strips – it completely covered the blade and had featherboards built in. At times I ripped narrow strips all day and my hands couldn’t get near the blade and kickbacks were prevented.
If you were cutting a full sheet or large piece of plywood you called over another worker to be on the outfeed of the saw – a helper is a great piece of safety equipment. We had a number of shopmade blade guards that we were required to use.

Then as life moved on I got my own table saws and my experience on them made me overconfident and guards disappeared. A few years ago I thought back to those days in a safe shop and reworked my saw. I have a Delta Uniguard overarm guard and splitter. I’m happy with these – they suit most of my safety needs and I have no trouble working with them on the saw.

[Chuck Lenz]

My saw is 12 years old and the guard is still in the box under the work bench. Guard or no guard, you still have to pay attention and know the capabilities of your equipment. I allmost allways use a push stick. Just about any piece of machinery will bite you. One of the scariest things I seen was in high school wood shop, a guy was geting ready to drill out a turned piece of wood for a lamp base. He was useing a drill bit that was over a foot long in a drill press. When he started drilling the block all of a sudden the bit swung out at a 90 degee and came very close to opening up his stomach in a split second. Either he had the speed too high or was applying to much presure on the bit, or C: All of the above. I think maybe he should of used a regular length bit first for the first 3" or 4", then used the longer bit at a much slower speed. It was a lesson I'll never forget.

[Bob Genovesi]

Scott,

I do not use the guard / splitter that comes with most saws today. In fact, when I started using table saws, 1965 there were no guards. Back then "you" were responsible for your own actions even if it meant loosing your fingers due to inattention or carelessness.

When I bought my new table saw years ago the first thing that went was that little gem. It appears that most of these had to be designed by lawyers. They restrict ones vision and overall I find them to be more dangerous then not because a portion of your focus is spent trying to work around them.

I feel a lot of mishaps / accidents fall into 2 groups; carelessness and improperly tuned and adjusted machines. I always take the time to properly tune and adjust all of my stationary machines. While the user has full control over inattention, a machine that's not properly aligned and adjusted is an accident waiting to happen.

[Sue Wise]

I use a Shark Guard on my Grizzly.

[Fred Voorhees]

Nope, still have it.....but I haven't the foggiest where it's at.:eek:

[Chris Barnett]

Yes, still on TS...that I have not yet used. Even put the old guard back on my RAS and yes, it had been hanging on the wall for 25 years. Might just take it off again if I decide to keep the RAS after all, which is a good chance. I am more comfortable with it than the TS now :confused:.

[Scott Velie]

So Far the count is
24 do not
14 do

I counted people not saws (for those that have 2)

It would be interesting to have also asked years experience to equate that with guard use

Scott

[George Armstrong]

The guard on my Ridgid TS3650 is easy to remove. The alignment stays as initially set when it is replaced. Takes seconds to remove or replace. ALWAYS use it (Except when doing dados, etc.).

[Greg Cole]

I will when the Shark Guard I ordered back in October shows up.... I know Lee's known for being busy & I'm trying to be patient.:cool:

Cheers.

Greg

[Rob Bodenschatz]

I use mine.

[Steve Rowe]

Absolutely yes.

[Bob Feeser]

http://66.77.255.87/Images/VA%20Products/26778_VA/WEB_LG/26778_VA_lg.jpg
I have to agree with Bob G. "I feel a lot of mishaps / accidents fall into 2 groups; carelessness and improperly tuned and adjusted machines. I always take the time to properly tune and adjust all of my stationary machines. While the user has full control over inattention, a machine that's not properly aligned and adjusted is an accident waiting to happen."

In addition another critical factor is using an ingenious push stick. More about that in a minute. Pertaining to the post question about using a blade guard...

My PM66 came with a blade guard that will not work with an Incra TSIII-32 fence. So it is still in the wraps. I bought Board Buddies, which are round rubber rollers that only will roll one way to prevent the wood from moving backwards, and most importantly keep the board trapped between the fence and the blade FLAT on the table. I have not installed them, but plan to in the future.

Norm Abrams does not use a guard, claiming, "We do it so the camera can see the cut, but it is a personal decision"

I had a kickback from my old Sears contractors saw, then realized that the table is bowed in the center; it sags front to back. So that results in longer boards lifting off of the table in the center. The kickback was the result of the back end of the cut piece lifted slightly, then the blade contact edge, forced the workpiece down toward the table, with the fence guard edge of the workpiece stayed lifted, and that resulted in a twisted piece of wood. It tilted down, resulting in a wider workpiece dimension between fence and blade, and the blade was not going to put up with that. The piece fired back on my 1hp saw, slamming into my stomach. Fortunately it was a flat ended piece, otherwise I would have been impaled. As it was it created a bruise, that took a while to heal, and a small amount of blood was on the surface. I learned about staying clear of behind the workpiece, and keep the exiting end of the board flat on the table.

End result: I always use a push stick that has a long tail on it, so it is easy to control the workpiece as it exits the mid point of the blade. Also it has a little grip to it so I can place a little bit of effort at a 45 degree angle toward the fence. That has a double purpose, it keeps the workpiece tight to the fence, and if a slip or mistake should happen, my exerted pressure is pushing toward the fence, and not toward the blade. It takes a special push stick to be able to do that. One with a rubber type sticky on the front. Plus if you push stick is not tall enough, you are pushing toward the blade.

So I do not use one like this http://i18.ebayimg.com/04/i/07/7e/e2/b3_2.JPG because it has zero control on the back end of the workpiece and is slick to the workpiece which creates a sliding possible problem.

I highly highly highly recommend something I don't want to use a table saw without. That is the "Vermont American Push Shoe" which gives you complete control with a saw style handle. http://66.77.255.87/Images/VA%20Products/26778_VA/WEB_LG/26778_VA_lg.jpg
Notice how high this sits off of the table. That way your hand has plenty of clearance above the blade. If you slip you clear the blade.
Notice the red plastic/rubber type knob toward the front. That is sticky, which enables you to get a grip on the workpiece, that is what enables me to exert a little force at a 45 degree angle toward the fence, while I am pushing the workpiece through. (Something impossible to do with the tan colored push stick)
Also notice that with this kind of enclosed handle, you have total control of the angle of exertion, something impossible to do with a round push stick.
It is thin enough to cut all but the tiniest pieces of wood, yet wide enough to get a good grip.
If you Google it you can shop for the best price on it. It is clearly an inexpensive investment, and one of the best functionality award winners. Most importantly it prevents me from ever reaching over the blade, and keeping the workpiece down on the table as it leaves the back end of the blade, which is spinning upwards and trying to lift the workpiece from off of the table. That is where the kickbacks happen.
I can not emphasize enough what a difference in control this push "shoe" makes. I tried to explain it using words, but once you use it and see the total engineering including the sticky red knob toward the front, you will instantly know the difference.

[Carl Hill]

Absolutely not. I think another interesting question would be; How may accidents happen with the guard on or with the guard off? I just feel much safer being able to see the blade. But I sure understand the guard on argument also. Not trying to start a fight, just really curious what the actual numbers would be.

Carl

[Don Bullock]

I can say that prior to having the saw I have now I rarely used the guard because the splitter on my Craftsman was never lined up right. Wood would always get hung up on it. The guard was unsafe.

Now, my guard is on for every cut unless it is one where the guard/riving knife will get in the way, like the tenion jig cuts I recently made. On my saw (SawStop) the guard is very easy to remove and replace. It takes very little time. The riving knife, unlike many guards with splitters, lines up perfectly with the blade so it doesn't get in the way either.

[Bob Stegemann]

Guard is always on unless the cut won't permit it. It's rule #1 start with ten end with ten.:)

[Cary Falk]

I grew up never using a guard or splitter. The guards always seemed to get hung up on the wood and caused bigger problems. I restored a Unisaw that didn't come with a guard or splitter. I bought the snap in splitter from Beismeyer and love it. I use it regularly but not all the time. I don't think I will ever use a guard because I have never found one that does not get in the way. I am 37 and have been using a table saw as long as I can remember. I have never had a close call. I am always carefull. I do feel safer with the splitter.

[William Nimmo]

NEVER have, NEVER will.
Safety is important, hence I bought a Saw stop. Never plan on tripping the brake either.
Riving knife is great.
But No guard

[Brian Dormer]

Nope - it's still in the plastic wrap it was in when I purchased the saw a couple years ago. Removed the guard on the saw before that (my first TS) after only a brief trial. I have an MJ splitter waiting for installation - but so far haven't seen a burning need. I've looked at the shark guard and.... well, frankly I just don't see the need. My SOP is to keep my fingers at least 3-4 inches from the blade at all times - That means push sticks and Grrripers are always kept handy. And I keep the rip fence to blade aligned to less than .001" deviation to minimize the chance for kickback.

NYW/Norm did his "Table Saw 101" last season - he was a little vague as to why he doesn't use a guard (neither does Tom Silva) - but he did make a statement about "photographic clarity" and said that some woodworkers like to "clearly see where the blade meets the wood". He ended with "it's a personal choice".

[Rob Blaustein]

Excalibur overarm guard when possible. Pivots away easily when not. Aside from the protection from the blade, I like the added dust collection that an overarm blade affords.

[Phil Harding]

I tossed the OEM guard that came with my Grizzly cabinet saw. Replaced it with a Shark Guard on a overhead boom. When I can't use the Sharl Guard (like for ripping narrow pieces) then I always use a pair of GRRR-rippers from MicroJig. I also use the MicroJig splitter - not the best but certainly better than no splitter at all.

-- Phil

[Frank Orzehoski]

I admit it. My table saw guard is hanging on the wall. It has been there for a long time.
How about all of you?

Scott

No I do not use one. I bought a new Grizzly last summer and was going to put it on until I purchased a Grrper push block. When doing large rip's, ie plywood I am careful where my hands are. At a local wood working school I attended there were no guards on the saws.

[CPeter James]

Yes I do. This is a repost of a photo from another thread and shows the guard in place where it stays neigh on 100% of the time. I also use a splitter that is .005" thicker than the blade kerf. For a standard 1/8" blade the splitter is .130". This really works good for me. The splitter is mounted to a stud on the trunion and tilts with the blade. It is mounted very close the the back of the blade.

CPeter

The blade guard. Note the splitter in place.
http://home.metrocast.net/~cpjvkj/Slidingtable.jpg

The splitter
http://home.metrocast.net/~cpjvkj/splitter.jpg

[Al Willits]

When I ran the drag bike I probably made well over 2000 passes and never dumped the bike once, but I wore full leathers and a very expensive helmet, why...just because $hit happens.

I run the Shark guard when ever possible, its clear plastic material makes it easy to see what the blade is doing, and it only takes less than a minute to install or remove if need be, I also run the anti kick back rollers when I can.

Woodworking is a hobby for me, and losing a finger or worse just because it takes a little longer to be safer, just isn't worth it for me.

Al

[Robert Waddell]

I posted before regarding using a guard but just wanted to encourge everyone to use a "shoe" type push stick like the one Bob F. mentioned a few post back. The long plastic or wood stick type will get you hurt.
Rob

[Larry Conely]

My blade guard is always on. It raises or lowers with a light touch, but will stay in place. If for some reason I need to clear the support out of the way, the whole assembly easily rotates in an arc backwards until it is clear of the table plane.

Also note the riving knife behind the blade.

Larry

[Fred Childs]

Mine is also hanging on the wall. Maybe I should try it sometime.

[Jim Kountz]

Mine's on the saw. For every cut. *EVERY* cut.



Thanks,

Bill

So I assume you never use a tenon jig or a tapering jig or a crosscut sled? How about a miter sled? If so how does this work out with your guard?

[Paul Libby]

No, tried it for a short while......it was an awkward thing to use.

That said, the table saw has my full attention when I use it. I use push sticks, feather boards and jigs as appropriate to keep my fingers on my hands.

[Bill Lantry]

Hmmm... I wonder if some of our responses aren't dictated by our saws? Just went to the shark gaurd site, and the thing looks like an upgraded version of what came with my 3650 (way cooler, but still... ;)

It comes on and off in a few seconds... maybe that's why we use it, instead of coming up with all sorts of arguments for how to be safe, all along the lines of "I keep my motorcycle well maintained and I'm careful, so I don't need a helmet." Well, I fell off my motorcycle years ago, and was sure glad I had a helmet on. And when I carelessly dragged my hand across the blade plane last summer, I was sure glad that gaurd was there... ;) Of course, most people are way more experienced, way more careful, and way smarter than I am. If I were like them, I might not need one either.

thanks,

Bill

[Danny Thompson]

Nope. The one on my cheap ($99) Delta never would stay aligned with the blade, so I had to take it off just to use the saw. But I'm religious about using the crosscut sled for any crosscutting and push sticks for any ripping. I've also embedded it in a large worktable for stability and added table surface.

[Pete Stack]

First post in a great forum!

Never used the blade guard for a good 15 years. Was always "careful" and used pushsticks, including the aforementioned Vermont American Push Shoe Plus.

Then one day I was ripping poplar into 3/4" x 3/4" stock. I still do not know how it hit the blade, but a 6' long piece somehow popped on top of the blade. The piece of wood shot back through a double pane window and landed about 50 feet away from where it originally was launched. Thankfully I was not standing directly behind it, as I'm most certain I would have been impaled.

Blade guard is now on, thank you.

[Kevin Groenke]

Since I'm responsible for the physical well-being of others... Yes. Both of our tablesaws have their Beismeyer overheads in place over the blade whenever it doesn't interfere with an operation. If the bladeguard is in the way it takes 3 seconds to slide them out of your way. Riving knives are in place unless something other than a 10" blade is being used.

I have a thumb and finger which are shorter the their left-handed counterparts and have fused knuckles, so I try not to take these things for granted.

-kg

[Simon Dupay]

Nope, I feel that it's more dangerous to have it on because it gets in the way.

[Ron Bontz]

I tried the guard on my unisaw for awhile but found it to be more of a problem than safe. These days I use a beisemeyer splitter and take a defensive mode. My blade insert is the red zone and the blade a formidable defense I can never get passed. I just call out the special teams, (push sticks) for that and kick a field goal.. :)

[glenn bradley]

So I assume you never use a tenon jig or a tapering jig or a crosscut sled? How about a miter sled? If so how does this work out with your guard?

As Jim points out, the guard cannot be used for all types of cuts. With the tenon jig I keep both hands on the handles on the opposite side of a large chunk of cast iron. With a sled the hands are again, well out of the way. For thin cuts I use Grr-Rippers and for most other cuts the overarm guard is in play. A splitter is always present except when using the sled or cutting bevels.

For those that have a guard that is not easy-off / easy-on I would recommend making a modification a priority. If you use a guard without a splitter, please add one. When I get in a hurry (not often) I try to remember how much slower things would go with my hand all wrapped up or missing a digit.

Same goes for your circ-saw. Don't rig your guard to stay open. Don't buy the story that circ-saws aren't dangerous. A sharp awl is dangerous if we don't all take care.

[Steven Wilson]

The riving knife stays on my saw for every cut except when I use a dato. The guard, which provides overhead dust collection, stays on for all through cuts. I no longer have a miter guage, miter slot, tennoning jigs, or use for crosscut sleds. Instead I have a large sliding table with two decent sized clamps. For tennons I use a Felder adjustable tennon cutter on the shaper (which is well guarded) and clamp down my stock to the sliding table. Fingers are nowhere near the blade during this operation. Since the guard that attaches to my riving knife is well designed it doesn't interfere with thin stock operations, just change the rip fence to the low position, move it back, and carry on - a very simple change. The push stick has a great path for ripping thin stock.

[Bob Goldsmith]

I have the ultimate newbie TS, a Craftsman contractors saw, and I use the guard that came with it. I'm new to woodworking and that's how I'm learning...with the guard in place. When the guard is on, for me at least, I don't fear the saw I respect it. Granted it's a PITA to remove and align and I'm sometimes I think if I ditched it, I could take my projects to a whole new level, but I don't feel really comfortable using it without that extra insurance.

As I progress into more advanced projects, I have a feeling that I'll need to remove the guard on a more frequent basis to accomplish the cut correctly and put to use some of those cool jigs and sleds that others on this board have posted on how to create. Currently I try to plan my cuts so that the guard is off only for the minimal amount of time needed. For the bulk of rips and crosscuts I've done so far the guard has not been a limiting factor.

[Joe Mioux]

yes, i use the guard and splitter when cutting plywood or ripping long boards.

I do take it off for certain other cuts.

In addition to the guard, I have Board Buddies installed on my fence, two grippers, additional push sticks and a General Cast Iron tennoning jig.

When using the miter gauge and referencing off the fence, i will place a one inch block on the fence and then reference of that, ala Norm. As long as the fence isn't in play, I feel pretty safe not having the guard on.

joe

[Jason White]

I removed the guard on my RIDGID TS3650 but kept the splitter and pawls in place. As soon as I find a decent aftermarket splitter, I'll replace it. Too bad the Biesemeyer aftermarket splitter won't fit my saw (do they even make it anymore??).

I do wish the stock blade guard was better, as I'd love to have one with a dust collection port.

JW


I admit it. My table saw guard is hanging on the wall. It has been there for a long time.
How about all of you?

Scott

[Chuck Burns]

I've never used a guard on a TS. Always have the riving knifeinstalled onthe SS though. Always use push sticks. I ought to put the guard on just to see how it works. It's never been on my saw. But then I've seen very few TS that were actually used a lot with a guard.

[Eric DeSilva]

Hmm... I bought my unisaw used, and it didn't come with a blade guard. The splitter came w/it, and that gets used. In all my early days of working on a table saw (my Dad's saw and a HS shop), none of them had guards or splitters. The HS shop teacher did a little demo each year cutting a 2x4 or something with the fence and the miter gauge, launching a piece of wood backwards... Since there was a metal door behind the saw with substantial dents from years of "demonstrations," it was sort of a graphic reminder and people obeyed the rules pretty religiously.

I was actually searching posts on SMC the other day, thinking about a blade guard, but wanting one with a long arm, since I run sheet goods through my saw. Thought the Bies T Square system looked good, but then I discovered it would cost what I paid for the saw to begin with! Maybe I'll look into the Shark guard... That seems to be getting good reviews here.

[Matt Meiser]

I use a Biesemeyer overarm guard. They are expensive, but it is easy to use and doesn't get in the way, which means I actually use it. Same with the splitter, mine's the Delta Removable Splitter which stays in the saw unless I'm doing non-through cuts.

[Dave Falkenstein]

Ever since I cut the end of my thumb rather badly 14 years ago, using a saw with the guard removed, I use a guard and a splitter. I have an Excalibur overarm guard, with a Shark Guard clear plastic accessory and a Biesemeyer removeable splitter. Sometimes the guard gets in the way, but that's a whole lot better than spending six weeks sleeping in a recliner with your arm elevated so your thumb won't die!!!

[Steve Clardy]

I just use a splitter.

The guard that came with my saw in 1995, got thrown in the trash.
Never installed it.

[Bruce Volden]

???Hate to sound dumb...but what's a guard???;)

Bruce

[Lee Schierer]

I used the guard that came with my Craftsman when I first got it, but it isn't very effective and the splitter is a joke. Consequently it doesn't get used much anymore. I do know exacty where it is. I also have numerous pursh sticks and feather boards that are always handy and always used. I still have all parts of all fingers.

I agree with the previous posters that advocate tuning up your saw to rpevent kick backs is the best solution.

[Richard Dragin]

???Hate to sound dumb...but what's a guard???;)

Bruce

You must not hate it too much.

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Yep, my gaurd is on my saw unless I am using the tennoning jig, crosscut sled or dadoing. I timed how long it takes to remove it including walking over to the bench to get a screwdriver and a wrench. It was 50 seconds. It took slightly longer to put it back on including the same walk to the bench at 1min 10 seconds. I wasn't in a hurry and the rear bolt on my unisaw is under my outfeed table.

~1 min is well worth the safety it provides. I have never wished I didn't have the gaurd on that there have been times I wished it was.

[frank shic]

i've got the sharkguard mounted on mine and VERY RARELY ever remove it. the portable table saws that i purchase all have toolless bladeguard. why should i subject myself to unnecessary risk in a potentially dangeous hobby?

[Don Henthorn Smithville, TX]

I have been working wood for over seventy years. Like Bob G. said there were no guards on table saws back then. I worked in home shops and in commercial places and never had a guard and frequently worked without fences. Cut myself once while production cutting xylophone keys in a factory, but that was repetitious, hum drum, sleep inducing work. I worked in a house trailer factory in Indiana in the forties and cut mucho plywood panels without guards and without fences. I have done every dangerous thing there is on a table saw, just because that is how it was done then. I always use shoe type push sticks when needed and don't take what, for me, I consider chances. I learned to hear the saw, to feel the tensions and releases in the wood, and to handle the wood accordingly. I am much more uncomfortable with a guard than without, and so that is the way I work. BUT, given the situation today and the lack of real on the job training most new woodworkers get, I would encourage the use of guards for anyone who has the slightest doubt about his/her ability to work safely otherwise.

[Bob Feeser]

Same goes for your circ-saw. Don't rig your guard to stay open. Don't buy the story that circ-saws aren't dangerous. A sharp awl is dangerous if we don't all take care.

Glen,
I couldn't agree with you more. I have a friend who had a defective guard on his circular saw, and when done cutting a piece of wood in an odd position, gravity drew the saw down, and it glanced against his thigh. With the guard getting stuck, the blade was free to tear up his leg. I never thought about someone intentionally rigging their guard to stay open, that's even worse.
Personally I find a circular saw more danerous than a tablesaw. Why? Because oftentimes the wood is not secured, and a slight shift in a piece of plywood will kick the saw out of the slot, and go dancing backwards toward the operator. Also if the cut starts to go off the mark, correcting it binds the blade a little as well.
I always try to get behind the cut, and exert enough force on the circular saw so if it tries to kick, it jams. I have a Bosch gear driven with a rear handle that enables me to really get behind it. I know a full time framer would be laughing at what I have just said because they are up on a ladder sometimes, making all kinds of wierd cuts. I don't have that kind of experience with a circular saw.
If you read the Bosch web site, they instruct you to cut sheet goods down on the ground, resting between two 2x4's so you can prevent the workpiece from shifting.

[John Thompson]

29 years no... but after having stock launch rear-ward and penetrate two sheet rock walls 20' to the rear of my shop, I changed my tune. The last 6 years always with the exception of non-thru cuts which I try to avoid on the TS.

My Uni-saw guard has been modified to similar to Lee's excellent "Shark Guard". I'm just cheap and couldn't afford the down time it takes to get one. I run a Euro style home-made crown guard with a modified Penn State shield to catch over-head dust. Modified the Uni so the crown or entire guard comes off well under 30 seconds.

Also use a home-made short fence and have put Red-Lines on my saw that I do not allow my hands to go over. Push sticks take it from that point.

To each his own...

Sarge..

[glenn bradley]

When I ran the drag bike I probably made well over 2000 passes and never dumped the bike once, but I wore full leathers and a very expensive helmet, why...just because $hit happens.

Al offers an amazingly insightful and very correct statement. The powers that be have ordained that the time I don't take care is the time Murphy will strike. I have grown to accept this fate and live my life accordingly.

[Bill Ryall]

Nope.

Never on either one of my shop TS's. Don't have one for either as both are much older than I am. I have an overarm guard half built for when I overhaul my bigger saw in the spring.

My jobsite saw has one that sits on the saw until I need to use it...

I use push sticks and featherboards religiously however.

[Gary Keedwell]

No guard...not sure it came with one. Installed board buddies last year and installed homemade splitter.
Gary

[Bruce Benjamin]

I just feel much safer being able to see the blade. But I sure understand the guard on argument also.
Carl

:confused: MUCH safer? Hmmm...And it's much safer to ride a motorcycle without a helmet so you can get a better view of the pavement coming closer to your head.:rolleyes: The blade guard on my General Int. saw is made from clear plastic. I can see right through it. I'm pretty sure that pretty much all factory blade guards are made of clear plastic now days.

Bruce

[Bill Wyko]

At my business it's mandatory for my employees and myself. At my shop at home it gets in the way when I do segmenting. I've actually had pieces get caught between the gaurd and the blade and get ejected at me. I will say though, if it didn't get in the way when I'm segmenting, I'd use it. Without it, sawdust flys in the air and in a 12x20 shop, it fills the air in one cut. So If I had my druthers, I'd use it as much as possible.

[Bruce Benjamin]

First post in a great forum!

Never used the blade guard for a good 15 years. Was always "careful" and used pushsticks, including the aforementioned Vermont American Push Shoe Plus.

Then one day I was ripping poplar into 3/4" x 3/4" stock. I still do not know how it hit the blade, but a 6' long piece somehow popped on top of the blade. The piece of wood shot back through a double pane window and landed about 50 feet away from where it originally was launched. Thankfully I was not standing directly behind it, as I'm most certain I would have been impaled.

Blade guard is now on, thank you.

Great first post, Pete. Welcome to the forum. This post is a perfect answer to those who think that TS accidents are prevented by paying close attention and having a properly tuned saw. Those things help but it won't prevent all accidents. Sometimes the unexpected happens and you can't alway account for all possible scenarios.

Bruce

[Dave Falkenstein]

...This post is a perfect answer to those who think that TS accidents are prevented by paying close attention and having a properly tuned saw. Those things help but it won't prevent all accidents....Bruce

Unfortunately, NOTHING will prevent ALL accidents. Being safety conscious and using safety devices as they were intended sure helps.

[Jim Davenport]

Put me in the using the guard column. When I was young, I thought a guard was a pain. As I aged I got more careful. Two years ago, I had to replace the plastic part of the guard on my Jet contractors saw due to age.

[Thom Sturgill]

Put mine on after taking the pawls off ( I had a bad experience with similar pawls scoring soft woods). Then I had to take it off for the next series of cuts that I had to do, cutting some banding strips. I plan to keep it on or at least make a splitter/riving knife to mount in its place.

[josh bjork]

Like many, I got a used saw with parts missing. I use push sticks religiously. The ones most people use look very dangerous. I don't like the push shoe idea either, it looks like a good way to get your sleeve caught in the blade. I guess that could be avoided. Some of the safety setups look pretty wise but I haven't had the $ to look in on them yet. However, table saws are known to be dangerous. Watch out for that router or that jointer.

[Mark Gordon]

Three saws, 15 years and no guards no splitter. Used saws, either didn't come with it or the guard was horrible. I also saw Norm sawing without it. I felt very safe seeing the blade and had a very healthy respect (Fear) of getting near the blade with my hands. I also didn't rip very thin stock.

Recently bought a used PM66 with guard/splitter and I decided to leave it on. Primarily because I could get it out of the way simply. I like the metal sides that rotate up on top and out of the way. High quality materials.

Just put together an X5 unisaw for my sister and the guard/ splitter that came with the $1800 saw was horrible. First, the guard was lightweight and cheap and it was impossible to get out of the way. Manual said to rotate the plexiglass and use a slot in the back to prop it up. When we did this, the guard would stay up for 5 seconds and then slam down on our fingers. I don't see this guard ever being used. Shame on Delta.

The only other comment that I have on looking over the posts and recommended aftermarket guards/splitters is where did they get those prices??? $250-$500 is what I would pay for a saw, not an attachment.

For final statement, almost everyone's comments echoed the opinion that they would likely used guards and splitters if they were quick to remove, so why don't the saw makers provide one?

Happy new year.

[Dave Falkenstein]

...For final statement, almost everyone's comments echoed the opinion that they would likely used guards and splitters if they were quick to remove, so why don't the saw makers provide one?

Happy new year.

The newest saws by Jet and Powermatic (to name two) have a riving knife and guard assembly that is reportedly quick and easy to remove. They heard you.

[Don Ware]

I'm a beginner and not normally a 'safety' type. But I have great respect for, and fear of, the table saw blade. And I notice I'm getting just a bit clumsier and distracted in my old age. I've decided to use the guard as much as possible.

I was also the type to want to watch the blade cut but I've realized that a proper setup really makes this unnecessary.

Don

[Gary Herrmann]

Original version - no, but I do have a Bies splitter and an Excalibur overarm guard on my saw.

[M Toupin]

I don't like the push shoe idea either, it looks like a good way to get your sleeve caught in the blade.

Josh, if your wearing sleeves that loose and long, you really shouldn't be using a TS to begin with. The #1 safety device is between your ears. As several folks have said, you're responsible for your own safety.

Mike

[tim rowledge]

The minimax CU300 came with an entirely usable guard that aids greatly in dust collection and is removable in maybe 10 seconds - so why wouldn't I use it? I use seatbelts, crash helmets, ear defenders, flak jackets, when needed so why would I suddenly choose to avoid a safety device in my hobby?

[Al Willits]

"""""""""
Just put together an X5 unisaw for my sister and the guard/ splitter that came with the $1800 saw was horrible. First, the guard was lightweight and cheap and it was impossible to get out of the way. Manual said to rotate the plexiglass and use a slot in the back to prop it up. When we did this, the guard would stay up for 5 seconds and then slam down on our fingers. I don't see this guard ever being used. Shame on Delta.

The only other comment that I have on looking over the posts and recommended aftermarket guards/splitters is where did they get those prices??? $250-$500 is what I would pay for a saw, not an attachment.

For final statement, almost everyone's comments echoed the opinion that they would likely used guards and splitters if they were quick to remove, so why don't the saw makers provide one?
"""""""""""

The one that came on my Delta Hybrid sucked too, in fact it fell apart while I was using it.

fwiw the Sharkguard comes on and off fairly easy and runs about $135.

Al

[Don Stutsman]

I wish I could say 'yes' but alas, it is in a drawer somewhere. I know that is a bad thing but the darn thing never worked well and always seemed in the way. I am; however, very cautious around the saw.:(

[Nissim Avrahami]

"""""""""
For final statement, almost everyone's comments echoed the opinion that they would likely used guards and splitters if they were quick to remove, so why don't the saw makers provide one?
"""""""""""
Al
I think that the Splitter/guard looks like that because of the OSHA requirements...

The law requires the makers to equip the table saw (Hand-fed circular rip saw - as it's called by OSHA) with a Splitter (Spreader - as per OSHA) but, OSHA also demands the Anti-kickback pawls (Nonkickback fingers) that "Shall be designed to provide adequate holding power for all the thicknesses of materials being cut"
That means that the splitter must extend above the blade level to accommodate the Pawls hinge and it must be removed for non-through cuts.

The Guard (Hood)..."will automatically adjust itself to the thickness of and remain in contact with the material being cut"... so, it's a little bit complicated to remove it and that's the reason that most of the people just remove both of them (guard/splitter) forever...

The European law does not require the guard to "remain in contact with the material being cut" so it can move up/down with the riving knife.

Anti-kickback pawl are not required, so the Riving knife can sit just below the blade level and never interfere with non-through cuts.

The EU law also demands from the makers to make the guard removal/installation very easy (no tools) and quick, to encourage people to use it.

At the pic below you can see my TS that is typical EU...to install the guard, it's a matter of "click" and turn the wing nut...

The EU safety regulation makers are "pressed" all the times by the "Unions" that wants safer working environment for their members and the result is that also the amateurs like me are getting safer machines.

A "brand new" law is, from yesterday (1.1.2008), all the rotating machines with removable guards that are used for Woodworking and Metalworking, must stop rotation within 10 seconds or less...they discovered that many accidents happened during the long "run-down" of the cutter...my TS already complies with this law...

Regards
niki
78399

[Andrew Williams]

Even with a Sawstop I use the guard on every cut except when not possible. For those other cuts I use the riving knife.

Expediency does not trump safety in the case of tools which have the potential to create permanent damage to our precious hands.

[Tim Marks]

There was a plywood box that clamped onto the table for ripping thin strips – it completely covered the blade and had featherboards built in.
John, would you mind describing this a bit more. Did it only cover the left hand side of the blade to allow the fence to get closer to the blade?

I use a bladeguard as much as possible, but when cutting thin strips it sometimes gets in the way, and I would be interested in what other options might exist.

My new-years resolution? Use the benchdog push stick below, instead of using whatever stick was handy (or none if it wasn't).

[Rod Sheridan]

30 years of using a tablesaw, and I always use a guard.

My present saw (General 650) has an Excalibur overarm guard and Merlin splitter.

The overarm guard allows all operations except for tenon jig use.

I made a box guard for the tenoning jig out of 6mm birch plywood that covered the blade except for the opening where the workpiece was inserted. It worked great, however I now cut the tenons on the shaper in one pass using a stacked cutter. (With a guard of course).

When I was working in the wood industry, all machinery had guards, without exception, and most machines had metal guards. There wasn't any need to see the blade cutting the wood, and metal provided more protection from a flying knot or cutter than a piece of plexiglass.

My favourite machine to setup was the 40 HP gang rip saw, it could convert 12/4 oak into strips faster than two men could feed it. Watching the ammeter climb into the 30 + HP range during cutting, and listening to the occasional explosion of a piece with a knot, I was very happy to have replaced the heavy steel and chain mesh guards on the machine after setup.


I guess I've carried that safety focus into my hobby as well.

My Father-in-law is a retired cabinet maker, and he has many stories of experts who sawed, jointed or shaped their fingers by operating machinery without guards/splitters/jigs because they were in a hurry, or didn't want to build a guard or jig for the particular job.

He doesn't have any stories of people who mutilated themselves on machinery that was properly guarded however.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. I ride a motorcycle as basic personal transport for 8 months per year, always with a full helmet, full riding suit with armour, and gloves and boots. I've only needed all that gear once, however the bike and my protective clothing were destroyed in an accident, and I walked away with a lot of bruises, and a great deal of respect for body armour and riding suits with Kevlar material in them.

I didn't need the above experiment, however using the safety gear worked much better than riding while wearing a T shirt and shorts.

Something to think about the next time you operate your saw without a guard, make sure you leave instructions posted as to how to retrieve your fingers from the dust collector in case the emergency medical personnel aren't familiar with woodworking machinery.

[Bruce Benjamin]

30 years of using a tablesaw, and I always use a guard.

My present saw (General 650) has an Excalibur overarm guard and Merlin splitter.

The overarm guard allows all operations except for tenon jig use.

I made a box guard for the tenoning jig out of 6mm birch plywood that covered the blade except for the opening where the workpiece was inserted. It worked great, however I now cut the tenons on the shaper in one pass using a stacked cutter. (With a guard of course).

When I was working in the wood industry, all machinery had guards, without exception, and most machines had metal guards. There wasn't any need to see the blade cutting the wood, and metal provided more protection from a flying knot or cutter than a piece of plexiglass.

My favourite machine to setup was the 40 HP gang rip saw, it could convert 12/4 oak into strips faster than two men could feed it. Watching the ammeter climb into the 30 + HP range during cutting, and listening to the occasional explosion of a piece with a knot, I was very happy to have replaced the heavy steel and chain mesh guards on the machine after setup.


I guess I've carried that safety focus into my hobby as well.

My Father-in-law is a retired cabinet maker, and he has many stories of experts who sawed, jointed or shaped their fingers by operating machinery without guards/splitters/jigs because they were in a hurry, or didn't want to build a guard or jig for the particular job.

He doesn't have any stories of people who mutilated themselves on machinery that was properly guarded however.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. I ride a motorcycle as basic personal transport for 8 months per year, always with a full helmet, full riding suit with armour, and gloves and boots. I've only needed all that gear once, however the bike and my protective clothing were destroyed in an accident, and I walked away with a lot of bruises, and a great deal of respect for body armour and riding suits with Kevlar material in them.

I didn't need the above experiment, however using the safety gear worked much better than riding while wearing a T shirt and shorts.

Something to think about the next time you operate your saw without a guard, make sure you leave instructions posted as to how to retrieve your fingers from the dust collector in case the emergency medical personnel aren't familiar with woodworking machinery.

Yeah, yeah, right Rod. That's all well and good for you but you forget that there are some people on this forum who are experts with their equipment and don't need the guards because they pay extra close attention and use push sticks. They can't possibly hurt themselves if they pay close attention now can they? All of those other guys who have lost fingers or worse just weren't experienced enough and weren't paying close attention, right? ;):rolleyes:

Actually, great post and well said from what sounds like a voice of experience and wisdom. I decided that I guess I really don't care if the more experienced guys who don't use a guard get mutilated or whatever happens to them. They know the different arguments and choose to ignore what is obvious to others. But I appreciate posts like yours because hopefully there are some newbies reading this and choose to operate their equipment with the proper safety devices instead of using it in a more careless manner.

Bruce

[Denny Rice]

When I bought my new tablesaw a couple of yrs ago, I thought since I was getting older maybe I needed to try to use the guard. Soon after installing it I learned "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" I felt like it made my tablesaw more combersome and harder to get the job done. I soon removed it and put it back in the box. I've been doing this as a hobby since the early 80's and cannot get use to a guard. Sorry guys. My sawblade is never set any higher than 1/8 of an inch higher than the stock I am cutting.

[Al Willits]

Goes to show you anybody can rationize just about anything.

Like said, thank goodness it never happens to them that know what they're doing...uh huh....your choice, your fingers.

Just wondering, if your only a 1/8" above the work and your cutting a 2" board, doesn't that leave a 2 1/8" blade sticking up?

What ever works for ya I guess.

Al

[Rod Sheridan]

Yeah, yeah, right Rod. That's all well and good for you but you forget that there are some people on this forum who are experts with their equipment and don't need the guards because they pay extra close attention and use push sticks. They can't possibly hurt themselves if they pay close attention now can they? All of those other guys who have lost fingers or worse just weren't experienced enough and weren't paying close attention, right? ;):rolleyes:

Actually, great post and well said from what sounds like a voice of experience and wisdom. I decided that I guess I really don't care if the more experienced guys who don't use a guard get mutilated or whatever happens to them. They know the different arguments and choose to ignore what is obvious to others. But I appreciate posts like yours because hopefully there are some newbies reading this and choose to operate their equipment with the proper safety devices instead of using it in a more careless manner.

Bruce

Hi Bruce, yes people will rationalize all sorts of behaviour to avoid learning new ways of doing things.

In Canada we have universal health care, so the monetary cost of cutting off a finger could be lower than in America, however it's still far higher than even the most expensive guards available.

Although it's obvious, you don't need a guard for the 99.999% of the time you're paying attention, it's for the other 0.001% of the time.

I had one of those moments a few years ago when I squaring, then cutting to length some stiles for a cabinet door.

I was doing the square, flip, drop the flip stop down, cut to length routine. Yes routine, the most dangerous time at a machine.

I was flipping the stile and almost dropped it, which made me grab it with my right hand. Well almost grab it, I punched the overarm guard.

If the guard hadn't been there, my hand would been in the blade.

I shut off the saw, went upstairs for a mug of tea to settle my nerves.

It had been a nasty accident prevented by spending $400 on a guard, and using it every time.

Regards, Rod.

[Bruce Benjamin]

Hi Bruce, yes people will rationalize all sorts of behaviour to avoid learning new ways of doing things.

In Canada we have universal health care, so the monetary cost of cutting off a finger could be lower than in America, however it's still far higher than even the most expensive guards available.

Although it's obvious, you don't need a guard for the 99.999% of the time you're paying attention, it's for the other 0.001% of the time.

I had one of those moments a few years ago when I squaring, then cutting to length some stiles for a cabinet door.

I was doing the square, flip, drop the flip stop down, cut to length routine. Yes routine, the most dangerous time at a machine.

I was flipping the stile and almost dropped it, which made me grab it with my right hand. Well almost grab it, I punched the overarm guard.

If the guard hadn't been there, my hand would been in the blade.

I shut off the saw, went upstairs for a mug of tea to settle my nerves.

It had been a nasty accident prevented by spending $400 on a guard, and using it every time.

Regards, Rod.


I can see why it would mean something to some people but to me the cost of cutting off a finger(s) or a hand isn't really an issue. Yes, it would be better if after cutting off something I didn't have to deal with the bills but to me that's the least of my worries. Perhaps I'd feel different if it were to actually happen though. Hopefully I'll never find out.

Your near-miss example is an excellent one. Even with events other than woodworking this sort of automatic reaction happens. I have a collection of very sharp, high quality professional knives in my kitchen from when I was a chef years ago. If I happen to accidentally knock a glass off of the counter my initial response is to keep it from hitting the floor with full impact by sticking my foot underneath it to slow the fall. If I drop a heavy can I do this to keep from denting the floor. But If I accidentally bump or push one of my knives off of the counter I have to resist that automatic foot response and jump back. My normal response has been to clear a path to the floor for the knife. But sometimes things happen so fast and signals get crossed in the ol' brain. I'd rather stab the floor and possibly damage a blade than stab my foot. This isn't a common occurrence but it's happened a number of times over the years.

A few months ago I moved my cutting board and off goes my 10" razor sharp Henckels chef's knife. Not thinking, I stuck my foot under the blade to, "Cushion" the fall. As I was doing it I realized it was stupid but it happened so fast I couldn't stop myself. Fortunately the blade landed flat on top of my shoe and there was no harm done. But I sure felt stupid and my 9 year old son's eyes sure were wide.

I have pretty quick reflexes with my hands too and I usually catch something mid-air before it ever hits the floor. It's just a natural reflex. I've done this a few times with a knife too but for some reason I've been lucky and never cut myself. I need to work on suppressing that natural reflex I have to keep sharp things from falling to the floor. I've yet to grab anything falling near my TS though but if I do I'm smart enough to keep the blade guard in place.

I'm very experienced with knives in a professional and home environment. There are safety devices such as special cut resistant gloves that could be worn but they get in the way and really aren't practical for a fast paced kitchen environment. You could say the same thing about TS guards. There's a big difference between the two safety devices though. With a table saw we all know the very real potential for finger or hand amputation and possibly worse. But I've cut myself with a knife dozens of times and I've never required more than a bandage and some duct tape or even Crazy Glue. I've seen a few cuts that required a few stitches but there was practically no chance of an amputation or even bleeding to death. The cost of a mistake with a knife is a small amount of pain, some very annoying inconvenience, and another cool scar. We all know what the cost of a mistake on an unguarded table saw can be.

Bruce

[John Gornall]

Answer for Tim Marks:

The plywood box was a bridge over the fence. There were base plates flat on the table on each side of the fence - C-clamps held both base plates to the table. The fence, about 1.5 inches high, could move under this bridge box but an inch right of the blade was max - to the left of the blade was room for a board about 12 inches wide. On the front of the bridge was a plywood drop gate which could be adjusted according to the thickness of the board being cut. In the top and left side of the box were adjustable feather boards. It seems complicated but was actually quite simple. We had a customer that regularly ordered thousands of feet of strips of yellow cedar and walnut - we would rip all day long. I could push a board into the saw and when it got close to the box I would just push it through with the next board. On the outfeed the strip and the board would slide and drop into a hopper. After 100 boards or so I would go to the back of the saw, sort the finished strips, and take the boards fo the next cuts. The same customer would also order 1 x 2 pieces with a rabbet which we also cut with this safety box.

[Nate Folco]

When the cut allows for it, the guard is on. It's even the crappy OEM guard that came with my unisaw. I modified it a little bit by grinding a little channel so it stays up if needed. I also ground off part of the back to make a U rather than an O so I don't have to unscrew the back screw all the way to put it on and off. I also added a 4" dust collection port to the top.

May I'm just too inexperienced, but it has already prevented a possible injury.

[Eric Haycraft]

Short answer..
Splitter - yes
Guard - no

Experience - beginner
Time in ship/week - 8 hours

I use the VA pusher and MK Splitter whenever I can. Ever since I went to zero clearance inserts, the blade guard has been sitting in a box.

Personally, when I used the guard, it was usually in the way. I was typically cutting thinner strips and the guard made it nearly impossible to push the wood through. I almost wish that we had nice thin guards like the european one shown earlier in this thread. I would be much more inclined to use then because it wouldn't get in the way. I don't need to see the blade, but I need room for push sticks and such.

I have a dewalt table saw, have had it less than a year, and it is a PITA to get the guard on and off and it never seemed to line up correctly. I finally got fed up and found the MK splitter as an alternative and it would allow me to use zero clearance inserts easily. Had I known more when I was shopping for a saw, I would have gone with the sawstop or waited for more riving knife models to become available.

I do plan on getting an overhead dust extractor/guard, but for now I run the saw with just a splitter. I do realize that I am living dangerously right now, but am quite aware of the risks and try to avoid repetitive hypnosis by taking breaks and consciously thinking about every move both hands make when the blade is turning. Featherboards are always in place and I keep myself and my dog clear of the rear of the workpiece whenever possible.

[Dennis Peacock]

Nope...don't have one and haven't had one in the past 10 years of active woodworking.

[John Thompson]

When the cut allows for it, the guard is on. It's even the crappy OEM guard that came with my unisaw. I modified it a little bit by grinding a little channel so it stays up if needed. I also ground off part of the back to make a U rather than an O so I don't have to unscrew the back screw all the way to put it on and off. I also added a 4" dust collection port to the top.

May I'm just too inexperienced, but it has already prevented a possible injury.

If I may make a suggestion in regard to that back screw you refer too on your Uni-saw. I have no clue why a designeer would put a 5/16 screw that long on that position. As you know.. it take about 20 turns or more to unscrew it if you use a rachet. If you use and open end, it takes forever.

Suggestion.. get a 5/16" shorter hex bolt about 1 1/4" max lenght or better yet... get a 5/16" with T or Star handle attached. It then comes off with about 4 quick turns of that Star handle under 6 seconds.

Same senario on the front with the exception that the keeper bolt is attached and it has a Hex nut that is extremely difficult to get a wrench on with space alloted. Get a T handle ( I believe that one is 3/8") with receptive co-responding female threads and eliminate the Hex bolt. You will have to cut some of the length of the handle diameter to allow room to turn. But.. with two quick turns it will release tension so the splitter can be lifted off quickly.

Regards...

Sarge..

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost.php?p=647087&postcount=12

[Dave Cohen]

I was running without one for years, and then I got a dust collector and found that the only way to get efficient dust collection on the table saw was with an overarm guard.

Now that I have two reasons to have one in place (dust collection and safety) I am now very happy I have it. There was an article in PWW recently about machinery safety which stated that if your fingers get within 3 1/2 inches of the blade guard on the TS, then the operation you are doing is probably too dangerous.

So the guard helps you gauge how close you should be, and also is there in case you make a slip like the other poster above mentioned. It has actually increased my enjoyment of woodworking, knowing that I am doing something to take care of myself while working on the equipment, and that I am using the equipment thoughtfully and not frenetically - which can easily lead to an accident.

Its exciting to be new at woodworking, but sometimes that excitement can lead to reckless impulsiveness, which needs to be tempered with some patience and thoughtfulness around the tooling.

[Don Stanley]

I admit it. My table saw guard is hanging on the wall. It has been there for a long time.
How about all of you?

Scott

Never use it!

[Ryan Brucks]

I use mine 95% of the time.

I have a minimax cu300, and sometimes when making a super narrow rip using my parallel ripping jig, I need to remove the guard, otherwise I risk bumping the guard with one of the clamps during the cut. This can cause the riving knive to bump a little, which will cause the lumber to twist a bit. Thankfully when I did this, it only twisted enough to slightly burn the kerf. There was still no kickback so the riving knife did its job even bumped a little.

The only time I have removed the riving knife was to make a partial slot cut through some panels. riving knife won't let me do that...

So far the only "injury" I've had from this new combo machine was once my wife called me in the garage and I stood up halfway underneath the slider (was doing glue ups next to it), and got a good sized cut on my shoulder blade. Still getting used to the massive slider overhang but its worth it


I plan to make a new blade guard out of acrylic, something like the shark guard but suspended from the ceiling so its super easy to move out of the way (there are plans for it, just dont have the link at hand right now).

[frank shic]

mine has a DC port attached to it and i highly value my fingers so yes, i keep it on there always except for my portable dewalt which i keep a dado stack on

[Chris Padilla]

FYI, this thread is 4+ years old. :)

[Richard McComas]

No I don't have a guard on my saw, but I should.




http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/rmccomas0043/cutfingerLarge.jpg

[Dave Zellers]

FYI, this thread is 4+ years old. :)

I've never understood why that's a problem. What's wrong with old threads coming back to life?

[Sean Hughto]

Brett Guard is on for every rip - which is mostly what I use my TS for. I have to take it off for my sled - Dubby - but it's easy to stay well away from the blade with the sled.

[Steven Green]

Took it off the splitter the day I set the thing up. Installed the splitter only. Hasn't been on the saw since. Tradesman all my life and I honestly can't remember the last time I worked on a saw with a guard on it on the job or at home. I've never had an accident either. More than few kickbacks before splitters were around but body position kept me out of the line of fire. Simple as that

[lowell holmes]

That's sad. I almost cut my thumb off 12 years ago. I was fortunate and the ER doctor was able to sew it back on and I have no disability. I immediately ordered an aftermarket guard and installed it.
I also use zero clearance insert with a splitter.

I've had no mishap's since. Years experience is not an excuse to disregard safety rules. I had been using a table saw for over 20 years when it happened.

Carelessness brought on by fatigue was the root cause. The guard being in place reminds me and if I am tired, I quit. The Exactor clone gets my attention and was cheaper than a trip to the EM.

[Chris Padilla]

I've never understood why that's a problem. What's wrong with old threads coming back to life?

I didn't mean to imply it was a problem...hence the FYI. Some times people ask a question not realizing that so much time has elapsed on a thread and that the person may no longer be around.

[Ryan Brucks]

hehe... I didn't even notice it was 4 years old. for some reason this thread was showing on the 1st page of the general WW forum for me... I swear :) I automatically assumed that meant recent. weird. ah well always a good subject to be reminded of!

[Rod Sheridan]

No I don't have a guard on my saw, but I should.


Ow! Ow!

Glad that's as bad as it was, could have been much worse.

Regards, Rod.

[Bill White]

Guard, splitter, Board Buddies, etc. are my normal assistants. I'm even thinkin' about wearing my helmet. I'm too old to start loosin' body parts in the shop. Lost enough in operating rooms.
Bill

[Steve Marcq]

No guard for me. I've always found that a spinning blade focuses my mind wonderfully.

[Jim Andrew]

I keep my shark guard on for rips, the splitter avoids any kickback. And the shark catches the dust that flys in your face if you don't have one.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Unless I am making dado cuts.....I always use the guard and the splitter. If you use it habitually, it becomes part of the process and not an inconvenience.

[John A langley]

I have an overhead guard on my PM66. My slider has the factory guard on it. My Pm50 jointer has its guard. Both my shapers have power feeders on them. In other words all my tools have some form of barricade. And yes, I am missing a couple of digits. That happened in a shop that I was working in in 1994. Somebody noted that fatigues and lack of attention caused his accident and likewise with mine. And I agree with what Ken Fitzgerald said and no - I am not buying a Saw-Stop. I have working in this trade since 1960 and one of the things I've learned is that an accident can happen awfully fast. So those that don't use your guards, I would think twice about it.

[David Hostetler]

My TS did not come with the OEM blade guard, however it did come with an early Shark Guard. I have since upgraded to a SG-K1 Shark Guard with 4" port. I have been strict about using my SG on every single non through cut. I'm not sure how old some of the guys are that started using table saws prior to guards. My grandfather who passed away in 1978 had a guard on his table saw... I am all for personal responsibility, which is why I use my vast improvement guard. Things slip from time to time. Better to be safe than sorry, and THAT is the responsible thing to do...

[ed vitanovec]

I'm a little surprised at how many of you all that don't use the blade guard. I hated my stock guard because I could not see through it, worked with Shark guard to design one for my saw. Use it all the time except for dado cuts. I use to leave it off and once while working when I was a little tired and my finger tips just brushed against the blade, not worth taking that risk again. I have heard of people slipping or getting distracted and getting hurt.

[Richard Wagner]

An interesting mix of responses. Wish there was a tally of users and nonusers. I have guards and would have to say that I use them only when doing something that feels hazardous. I hardly ever use them for cross cuts and almost always use them when ripping (except for very thin cut offs).

Riving knife always; however, I have a riving knife that was designed for non-thru cuts that is always installed unless my upper saw is installed. The upper saw guards mounts where the non-thru cut riving knife would be.

I have been quite strict about this ever since (25+ years ago) I lost an encounter with a whirling cutter.

[howard s hanger]

don't have it on at the moment. However, I use my Grr-ripper all the time. I assures my hand is away from the blade.

[Ray Newman]

When I purchased my Uni-saw somen 25 years ago, I installed the Uni-guard with the disappearing splitter. Over the years, we have become old friends as it is always on the saw. For some cuts, I will utilize Board Buddies or feather boards.

The miter gauge has a MDF (or a scrap wood) subfence, extending approximately 4-5" to the right of the blade to sweep the cut offs away from the blade. The miter gauge fence is high enough that the Uni-guard rides over it. As I do not cut very thick stock, the kerf cut in the subfence is a reference to place work.

[Bob Reda]

Never really used one, had a few kick backs that caught me. They hurt. Now as I'm getting a little older and on some medications I sat down and had to deceide wheather to continue woodworking or shut it down, The shark guard is on its way. I will honestly say that those you do not use it are playing with fire. Not trying to start something just as observation on my park. You cannot watch all the ends on a 6 foot board,you cannot be extra careful with a table saw. Certain laws of physics comes into play on a table saw that do not come in play anywhere else. What other tool do you have that can shoot a board 50 feet back? It only takes once my friends.

Bob

[Kevin Gregoire]

im sorry to say i dont use it and i may someday regret it.

[ian maybury]

I'm expecting the riving knife and guard set up on the Hammer K3 just going into service will prove practicable. It looks a lot better than what I had on its predecessor, in that the knife is from a piece of very tough ground flat stock and now that it's set up seems much less likely to get knocked out of alignment.

It's very hard to argue against using a guard, in that sooner or later the law of averages has to get you. My one minor encounter with a saw blade happened when running without a guard - I reached around to clear away an offcut, and a finger tip brushed the top of the running blade on the way back.

No fuss, no pain - just an instant (and fortunately minor) cut and blood all over. The message was clear though. All it takes is a moment's loss of awareness and the damage is irreversibly done...

ian

[Tom Hammond]

35 years in the shop and have never used a guard. 2 years ago, was ripping 2" stock by hanging hand over the fence, caught board on far side, pulled it back and promptly stuck the end of my thumb right into the blade. Bifurcated the thumb, lost the last bone, split the nail completely in half. 19 stitches to close and 5 MONTHS out of the shop.

The problem was NOT the lack of a guard. 35 years shows that safe procedures trump safety accessories. What I did was get in a hurry, was thinking about the next measurement and how the joint was going to go together and generally didn't pay attention to that cut... and paid for it. STILL do not use it and haven't made the same mistake again. Work a little slower, pay a little better attention... no worries.

[Ole Anderson]

Used my grizz guard less than half of the time for the first 10 years of saw ownership, then I started reading of amputations and near misses. And I had a bad kickback. So when I installed my DC system I also got a 3" Shark Guard, which now gets used 90% of the time. Easy on and off.

Too bad this wasn't set up as a poll. It would be interesting to see if the numbers have changed with the increased awareness of blade safety, particularly since the SS became more widely used and blade safety has been ramped up.

I saw a stat not too long ago that stated that on-site contractors don't use the TS blade guard 99% of the time. I believe it if you just watch the home improvement shows, I've seen a guard only once.

[Matt Day]

I don't use a guard. I echo Tom H's comment that safe methods of work is the best policy, for me. And if you have that little voice in your head saying "this isn't a good idea", listen to it. A healthy respect for the equipment/tool is also necessary. I think experience & comfortablility plays a part in it too - lots of time with the tool, a properly maintained and calibrated machine, and knowing the dangers of what can happen.

Re: the home improvement shows - I can't believe how ignorant the majority of the people on DIY/HGTV are (the contractors on the show, the producers, editors, etc) when it comes to table saw safety. I've seen many shows where they're cutting freehand. Though I don't use a guard, I think they should be using best practice methods and use one since there are plenty of Joe Homeowners out there who do not have the experience and respect for the machine to operate it safely, and will just emulate what they doing on the show.

[ian maybury]

It's like in many activities in life I think Matt - it's the people with the money and the means and in the right place at the right time that get to strut their stuff. Not normally the truly capable. You see that in high rent sports like car racing too.

The one issue with relying on good working practices is that it is possible to get caught by the moment of inattention. Stay in one piece for long enough for the habits to become automatic and I guess it's less of a risk, but there's something to be said for a safety net in the meantime.

I'm firmly in the camp though that holds that if you remove all obvious risk with OTT guarding etc. that all that happens is that most of us just relax our vigilance accordingly and turn into morons. Overdoing the guarding (and/or the claims culture) in the meantime has a very real $ and productivity cost for all of us..

ian

[Lornie McCullough]

I never use the guard, but I have about 6 push sticks in different configurations within reach at all times, and I think in advance about which one I will use for each cut. I also put my beard inside my t-shirt, and am mindful at all times. I NEVER reach for an off cut until the blade stops. My last kickback was over 20 years ago. Being mindful of safety is my most important tool.

Lornie

[Matt McColley]

I used to be just like you Scott.

When I moved my Sears contractor TS into my new basement shop, I spent several hours tuning it up.

It took a while to get the guard just right....but once i had it right, I've used it ever since.

I only take it off now when I'm using my cross cut sled

[J.R. Rutter]

Biesemeyer overarm guard. Easy to get out of the way for special cuts. Dust collection spoils you. OSHA inspector loved it.

[Tom Cullom JR.]

My shark stays on for every cut that can be made with it on. If I have to take off to make the cut I will try to do it another way if possable.

[James White]

lowell,

Could you provide the name of the Exactor clone?

James

[James White]

After recently removing my right middle finger on my jointer (guard was on).

I am considering installing an after market guard on my table saw.
Is there any consensus on the least intrusive/affordable design out there? How are narrow (less than 1") pieces ripped? I guess my Grippers will be of no use with the guard in place. Unless the rip is wide enough to accommodate the gripper + guard. But then there would be no need for a push block. Since your hand would have plenty room to be safe.

What about when using a cross cut sled are miter gauge. Can you lift them to line up the cut.

I don't think I want one if I will not want to use it.

James

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi James, sorry to hear of your injury.

In my opinion the issue is twofold;

- a good guard like an Excalibur overarm will allow you to use it even when making non through cuts, something a splitter mounted guard can't do. I owned an Excalibur for years on a cabinet saw and it would allow a crosscut jig to be used without swinging it out of the way.

Make sure you get a guard that's easy to swing away, no tools, no fussing.

- the other issue is the poor North American fence design. Have a look at the Euro fences, then make a wood addition to your fence that allows you to use it as a low fence so push sticks fit in, as well as a short fence for ripping solid wood.

Have a look at the following videos for fence use................Rod.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bS5x0MT_VM&feature=relmfu

[Chris Kennedy]

My OEM guard was pretty useless. On two early occasions, as I pushed the stock toward the blade, the stock pushed the guard into the blade. I also had trouble getting the splitter lined up properly. I pulled it off and replaced it with an Excalibur. It stay in place for every cut except for thin rips where there isn't room for it, the push shoe and my hand. In that case, I view the push shoe as most important (and I use a gripper that will straddle the blade). I also have a micro-jig splitter, which is always in unless I am running a dado.

Cheers,

Chris