HGTV disasters

[Chuck Lenz]

For the life of me I can't figure out where they find some of these carpenters at on HGTV. This morning I happened to be watching a little bit of one of their shows. The carpenter had a dado blade in the table saw but aparently didn't have a dado insert for it because the throat of the saw was wide open. If a carpenter wants to work that way it's their own bussiness. The next thing I know the carpenter has the home owner running a board through the saw. To set a saw up like that then have some home owner or stranger that obviously hasn't a clue about what he or she is doing, make the cut is just plain wrong and shows little regard for anyone else. Shows like this are promoteing more accidents in my opinion and it really needs to stop.

[Gary Keedwell]

For the life of me I can't figure out where they find some of these carpenters at on HGTV. This morning I happened to be watching a little bit of one of their shows. The carpenter had a dado blade in the table saw but aparently didn't have a dado insert for it because the throat of the saw was wide open. The next thing I know the carpenter has the home owner running a board through the saw. If anyone wants to do that it's their bussiness, but to set a saw up like that then have some home owner that obviously hasn't a clue about what he or she is doing, make the cut is just plain wrong. Shows like this are promoteing more accidents in my opinion and it really needs to stop.
That whole Network has been going downhill for a long time. LOML loves it...I won't watch it. _______ They ought to have a channel just for the serious hobbies and trades.

Gary

[Michael Merrill]

I agree about the constant safety issue, homeowners using nail guns without glasses, you name it. I also saw the missing throat plate and made a comment about the idiots.

They could teach a bit more "proper" technique.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

I'm not sure if it was HGTV, but I once saw some idiot freehanding on the table saw. It kicked back hard and slung the piece of plywood or MDF (can't remember which one) into whatever was behind him. Lucky for him, he wasn't standing directly behind it or he would have been hurting pretty badly.

Paul

[Jason Roehl]

Then again, had he been standing directly behind the plywood, he might have had enough control of the piece to not cause a kickback in the first place! :eek: Think about it--if you're standing off to the side of the plane of the blade, pushing a piece through straight is not a natural motion by any stretch of the imagination (think about trying to draw a straight line from the near-right corner of your desk to the far left if you're right-handed while sitting square to the desk). I've free-handed plenty of things on the tablesaw with nary a problem.

All that said, I think most of those DIY shows, whether on HGTV, TLC, DIYnetwork, etc. are a huge joke. They're like the TV version of fly-by-night contractors and just trying to ride the coattails of Norm's and Bob's successes.

[Eddie Darby]

I liked the one with the Budweiser commercial and a guy making a guitar. He cuts the 2" piece of wood free hand, and the wood doesn't even lay flat on the table saw top because it is so warped.

Should have been a warning posted saying don't operate tools under the influence of Bud or this guy!:D

[Ken Shoemaker]

Agree!!! HGTV is going down the "hopper" at a blistering pace....

[Randy Cohen]

so do they have a safety disclaimer on the show? i wonder what would happen if someone injured themselves and then said that they used a technique they saw on tv?

[Chuck Lenz]

Then again, had he been standing directly behind the plywood, he might have had enough control of the piece to not cause a kickback in the first place! :eek: Think about it--if you're standing off to the side of the plane of the blade, pushing a piece through straight is not a natural motion by any stretch of the imagination (think about trying to draw a straight line from the near-right corner of your desk to the far left if you're right-handed while sitting square to the desk). I've free-handed plenty of things on the tablesaw with nary a problem.


Jason, if I remember correctly, standing directly in the path of the stock isn't really recommended. I usualy try to avoid it if possible.

[Mark Patoka]

I get a kick out of them also. One time showing the homeowner how to use the nail gun, no safety glasses of course, explaining how it won't fire unless the tip is pushed in, then when she pulls the trigger she gets blasted by the air discharge right in the face. It may have been the same episode where the designers made a fancy room and put the pool table a foot away from the wall since that's the only place they could fit it in. I'd still like to know how they can paint something an hour before the homeowner arrives and it's already in place with stuff placed on it.

[John Hain]

Just this morning I saw some "host" on one of the networks "using" a card scraper while segmenting into a new portion of the show.

Of course, he was pulling the scraper back toward him like he was playing in a sandbox.

I actually stopped and hit rewind on the DVR to watch it again. It was clear the guy had no clue how to use the scraper.

[Tom Quatsoe]

First off, I agree with all on you. If the 'teachers' on TV are representative of even the top 25% of most informed about safety and tool use, then it is no wonder 10s of thousands of accidents occur each year. There are a few shows that demonstrate good techniques, but the trend is for shows doing a quick remodel. Not sure if this is due to production costs or the viewers requests, but it makes it all the more important that they demonstate proper technique on these types of shows.

You should also know that I sent a link to this thread to the head of Scripps Network, which runs HGTV, DIY, et al....I think... Hopefully he visits.

[Gary Keedwell]

Just this morning I saw some "host" on one of the networks "using" a card scraper while segmenting into a new portion of the show.

Of course, he was pulling the scraper back toward him like he was playing in a sandbox.

use the scraper

You mean that's wrong:confused::)
Gary

[Michael Gibbons]

After This Old House, New Yankee Workshop, American Woodshop and the Woodwrights Shop first aired, other less than adaquate shows started popping up like weeds on my lawn. None of them in my opinion have the real pro know-how like the previously mentioned shows. HGTV and DIY Network are really there to make money advertising-PERIOD. The producers could care less about the content. They are like companies waiting for certain patents to expire so they can benefit from someone else's work. Seriously though, How many home renovation shows do we need? It's too bad though that David Marks couldn't have struck a deal with PBS. I think he would have been better off and we wouldn't have to be subjected to the recap of what we accomplished so far after every commercial break :(. Russell Morash was and always will be the Guru of How-to television in my eyes.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

A lot of the "copy-cat" productions aren't nearly as good as the originals IMHO.

[Randal Stevenson]

Most shows (if not all, but I haven't seen all), have a disclaimer of some time. The channels legal department would require it.
This IS a pet peeve of mine, if they are going to use the table saw, use the guards. Let the homeowners and viewers learn there are reasons for it.

However, as a guide system user, this is a prime example to me, as to why they should be using one of the guide systems (or even sawboards). 90% of the ones I have seen were using sheet goods, which are hard enough on those portable saws, let alone an inexperienced user.

I'd like to see one complete unedited show, to see what training they give "harry homeowner" before using the equipment.

[Al Killian]

Just like when they say mdf is better then plywood for makeing shelfs.:confused: These shows need to start showing proper techniques and better materails for what they are doing. I wonder how many of these homeowners have to have the work redone a few month later due to lack of knowledge and quality materail.

I sent a leter to PBS once to request more "woodworking shows" . They said that they already had several on including, this old house, home time,etc...... . I treid telling them that there is a difference between woodworking and home improvment. Maybe one of these days the networks will get there act together.

[Fred Voorhees]

You mean that's wrong:confused::)
Gary

Yeah, I have to agree with Gary. I was always under the impression that you could pull or push a scraper. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[Paul Gatti]

Jason, if I remember correctly, standing directly in the path of the stock isn't really recommended. I usually try to avoid it if possible.

Agreed... I never stand directly behind the stock if I can help it and I've never had any problems pushing the stock through.

[Brian Kent]

Nearly all the home makeover shows have awful painting techniques. Almost never do they use a primer. Just brick red over navajo white (or vice versa) with nothing in between to make it stick.

[Chuck Lenz]

For whatever reason the shows are in a hurried fasion, even the home flips, maybe they are trying to convince people that anyone can remodel a kitchen in a hour and that it's easy. A good majority of us in this forum know better and we know that a hurried pace has no place around power tools. It's dangerous to you and anyone around you, and it makes for incredibly sloppy work. Patience is the name of this game, and ofcourse some common sense.

[Thomas Knighton]

These "home improvement" shows are set with the premise of doing a complete room makeover with X budget (something like $1000) and an extremely limited period of time. As a result, they take short cuts. The problem arises when people at home expect to be able to do this as well.

What you don't see is the team of people helping to make sure things are finished on time. Nor does Joe and Suzy Sixpack understand that MDF is cheap, and not the ideal material for their new entertainment center.

Of course, these shows probably have a worse impact on the professional contractors and furniture makers who have to deal with people who saw way to many episodes of Trading Spaces and can't understand why they can't redo their room, or build their dream bedroom suite for under a grand, because it happens on HGTV all the time.

Still, I watch it to get ideas for my own home only...I've already got enough bad habits to last a lifetime ;)

Tom

[Carroll Courtney]

I with you guys on this.There are only a couple of shows here in Houston's PBS that I watch.Norm,TOH,WW.I miss Modern Masters,and Wood sculpting.I would watch Woodwright,but we don't get that show.Like the other's said all there is now is people who don't look like they have ever done a days work at remodeling,building cabinets.Its the preatty boy and the pretty girl showing that domates the airwaves now.They never sweat,Tom Silva does!

[Chuck Lenz]

Modern Masters was one of my favorite shows, leting that show fade away was a huge mistake in my opinion.

[John Hain]

Yeah, I have to agree with Gary. I was always under the impression that you could pull or push a scraper. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I was commenting on the way he was pulling the scraper, not the direction. It's fine to push or pull. This guy was pulling the scraper like he was in a sandbox making a sand road for a Tonka truck while speaking at the camera. I guess you had to see it to "appreciate" it! High comedy for me, anyway.

[Chuck Tringo]

One show that I thought was rather interesting is the inside job. Its a DIY show filmed the same time as the HGTV Carter Can. The hosts arent even the ones who do most of the work. He has an entire crew including a forman and a crew chief behind them. funny. As for home improvement, my favorite is Holmes on Homes, its on Discovery home, but is a canadian show, he does a lot of work in Ontario believe. Hes one of the few I have seen who has anywhere near the knowlede and skill as Norm and Tommy on home improvement. And to add another Scripps rant, why have they been playing the same 4 seasons of TOH for the past year....over and over and over. Theres 27+ seasons to chose from, why do they play the same 4 ?

[Fred Voorhees]

One show that I thought was rather interesting is the inside job. Its a DIY show filmed the same time as the HGTV Carter Can. The hosts arent even the ones who do most of the work. He has an entire crew including a forman and a crew chief behind them. funny. As for home improvement, my favorite is Holmes on Homes, its on Discovery home, but is a canadian show, he does a lot of work in Ontario believe. Hes one of the few I have seen who has anywhere near the knowlede and skill as Norm and Tommy on home improvement. And to add another Scripps rant, why have they been playing the same 4 seasons of TOH for the past year....over and over and over. Theres 27+ seasons to chose from, why do they play the same 4 ?

Boy Chuck, you have hit a nerve with me on the This Old House rerun after rerun of the same darned shows. I have given up on watching TOH because, as you said, how many times can you watch the same houses being refurbished. Someone, PLEASE do something about this!

[Gary Keedwell]

I watched a This Old House yesterday on PBS that was made this year. It was real good.
Gary

[Rick Jeschke]

Watched TOH yesterday and saw a guy installing trim in a kitchen freehand a scribe cut for base on the table saw, with Norm watching. :eek: Not the best way to do it.

[Julian Wong]

For the life of me I can't figure out where they find some of these carpenters at on HGTV. This morning I happened to be watching a little bit of one of their shows. The carpenter had a dado blade in the table saw but aparently didn't have a dado insert for it because the throat of the saw was wide open. If a carpenter wants to work that way it's their own bussiness. The next thing I know the carpenter has the home owner running a board through the saw. To set a saw up like that then have some home owner or stranger that obviously hasn't a clue about what he or she is doing, make the cut is just plain wrong and shows little regard for anyone else. Shows like this are promoteing more accidents in my opinion and it really needs to stop.
I don't know if this was the same episode, but i also saw one where the carpenter/designer had used a dado blade to make a trench cut in a PT 2x4 (at least 6' length) to recess some pipe.

He did the dado freehanded (no gauge, no nothing) with two hands on the 2x4, one on each side of the blade! Also then proceeded to give it to the homeowner to dado it wider. Freehanded crosscut dado! My jaw almost dropped!

[Frank Orzehoski]

Then again, had he been standing directly behind the plywood, he might have had enough control of the piece to not cause a kickback in the first place! :eek: Think about it--if you're standing off to the side of the plane of the blade, pushing a piece through straight is not a natural motion by any stretch of the imagination (think about trying to draw a straight line from the near-right corner of your desk to the far left if you're right-handed while sitting square to the desk). I've free-handed plenty of things on the tablesaw with nary a problem.

All that said, I think most of those DIY shows, whether on HGTV, TLC, DIYnetwork, etc. are a huge joke. They're like the TV version of fly-by-night contractors and just trying to ride the coattails of Norm's and Bob's successes.

Jason - took a course here at the local community college here in Bucks County, Pa that has a wood working program and standing directly behind the blade was not an option. If you were using the saw during open shop time and you stood behind the blade and the teacher/assistants caught you, you were told about it. We were taught to stand to the left of the blade so if kickback occured you didn't get hit.

[Jim Becker]

Jason - took a course here at the local community college here in Bucks County, Pa that has a wood working program and standing directly behind the blade was not an option. If you were using the saw during open shop time and you stood behind the blade and the teacher/assistants caught you, you were told about it. We were taught to stand to the left of the blade so if kickback occured you didn't get hit.

Yea, Mark runs a ship-shape-shop!

[Chuck Lenz]

I don't know if this was the same episode, but i also saw one where the carpenter/designer had used a dado blade to make a trench cut in a PT 2x4 (at least 6' length) to recess some pipe.

He did the dado freehanded (no gauge, no nothing) with two hands on the 2x4, one on each side of the blade! Also then proceeded to give it to the homeowner to dado it wider. Freehanded crosscut dado! My jaw almost dropped!
Julian, I believe thats the episode.

[Greg Just]

another well done show that has been on for many years is Hometime. Dean Johnson is pretty good at the jobs they take on and they methods they use to complete a job are normally within the realm of the average homeowner. I'm looking forward to Norm and his 20th anniversary series. TIVO is already to go! :)

[Gary Keedwell]

Yea...I haven't seen it in awhile, but that was one of my favorite shows. Does he still have 1st run shows?
Gary

[Ron Dunn]

That story about freehand trench cutting sounds almost as bad as the most stupid thing I ever did with a tablesaw.

I had some tree branches I wanted to cut into foot-lengths for a small stove. I removed the blade guard to get some extra depth of cut, held each end of the branch segment, stood in front of the saw, and pushed into the blade.

I think you can imagine the result.

Actually, it wasn't as bad as it could have been. The wood got slammed into the table top, rather than flying into my body. My hands didn't get dragged into the blade.

I don't think I stopped shaking for about 30 minutes.

[Mark Ebert]

Watched TOH yesterday and saw a guy installing trim in a kitchen freehand a scribe cut for base on the table saw, with Norm watching. :eek: Not the best way to do it.

Did you happen to notice that the guy free-handing the trim was also missing most of his thumb? I wonder how that happened ;).

At least it won't get in the way of the blade while making those free-hand cuts:D

[Frank Orzehoski]

Yea, Mark runs a ship-shape-shop!


Hi Jim. Yes, Mark does do that plus his work, especially his turnings are something to see.

[Frank Orzehoski]

Just like when they say mdf is better then plywood for makeing shelfs.:confused: These shows need to start showing proper techniques and better materails for what they are doing. I wonder how many of these homeowners have to have the work redone a few month later due to lack of knowledge and quality materail.

I sent a leter to PBS once to request more "woodworking shows" . They said that they already had several on including, this old house, home time,etc...... . I treid telling them that there is a difference between woodworking and home improvment. Maybe one of these days the networks will get there act together.


Hi Al, tried to do the same thing here in Pa. A complete waste of my time. They lump anything with contracting as woodworking.

[Chuck Burns]

My gripe about these shows is that they make everyone think things are so easy and fast to do. My wife doesn't understand why I take so much longer to do things. She wants to redo the master bath and has threatened to tear everything out so I'd have to do it. But she thinks I'll be able to move the tub and shower, move walls, redo the closets, build new cabinets, tile everything, put radiant heat in the floor, do the elctrical and plumbing in three days.

I told her that there was a reason a contractor would want 20k to do it - it would be a lot of work!

[Steve Rayboy]

Watched TOH yesterday and saw a guy installing trim in a kitchen freehand a scribe cut for base on the table saw, with Norm watching. :eek: Not the best way to do it.

I saw that one too, and commented on it to my wife. In 30 years of using a table saw, I've never freehanded a cut. The installer did a good job, but sent the wrong message. Norm should have commented on it.

steve

[Rich Konopka]

No comment about HGTV other than I agree with what has been already said. My local PBS station in Springfield Mass is now showing a new woodworking show that is pretty good. It is call Woodsmith shop. It is from the publishers of Woodsmith, Workbench and Shopnotes magazines. Not bad, a little too basic but a welcome show. It airs right before Norm. I was amazed that it is on PBS because all that out PBS stations show now are the Doo Wap pandering specials.

[Curt Harms]

Just like when they say mdf is better then plywood for makeing shelfs.:confused: These shows need to start showing proper techniques and better materails for what they are doing. I wonder how many of these homeowners have to have the work redone a few month later due to lack of knowledge and quality materail.



Then a few months or years later can Mike Holmes come in and go on about what schmucks the original guys were.:D:D

[Christopher Pine]

I agree with you all. Like someone said earlier I love watching Mike Holmes. He indeed is out of Canada Eh! (I am not nor ever have been Canadian but I recon I like the way they talk...hmmmm...) :) He takes it to the other extreme of atomic bomb proof in what he builds. :)
I used to watch "Trading spaces" until the comedy of it wore off. These designers, some of them, have there noses so far up in the air if it rained they would drown. Then you see what they put together in someones home and how ridiculous it is! I remember different shows where it looked like the circus was going to perfrom in the living room. I did think Paige Davis was nice to watch however. :) :) She is a very attractive lady. (No offense intended to any ladies here, I just find her to be a pretty lady).
I know what you all also mean about the networks lumping anything that includes the use of a hammer,nails or screws to be "fine woodworking". It really is interesting how networks think they know somthing that they just throw it all together and see what happens.. I think David Marks woulld have shown them somthing! I understand he turned them down initially when they wanted him to make some "mission furniture" and call it good. He said you can get a lot of other folks to do that. He had his own ideas about creativity and design etc... that is a big part of woodworking as far as I am concerned.
On the other side of that coin I do not like it when some woodworkers put their noses into the air and say "That is not fine woodworking"... they may be correct it is just the snideness of it that bothers me. You have to start somwhere. So when someone does basic woodworking it should be encouraged not looked down ones nose at! (No one specific in mind here just a general comment)
I am stepping off the soap box.
I enjoy you alls observations of these shows scenerios... I don't think I have seen any of the ones mentioned so far.

[Peter Quinn]

HGTV---ugh..how much crap can you make from MDF. I had a request to make a platform bed based on a "design" on some "Junk to spruce up your home on a Dime" type show. Trying to explain that MDF simply can't make the span shown in the show for very long, finally told potential client "That show lasted 30min, bed might last 35 min Tops, and while that may be long enough for you that's not what I do!" Luckily I didn't get that job!

On other fronts, I saw a recent This Old House where a cabinet installer was scribing 6" base molding over very pitched floors around a kitchen island. He was free handing the scribe through a bench top TS with @ 12 degree bevel off the line and finishing with a block plane. He seemed happy as a clam working that way. He never asked the home owner to jump in!When it was ready he put it in place, the camera focused in and Norm exclaimed "Nice job Brian, beautiful!"

Problem is the inside corner miter was opened by at least 3/16"! I guess thats show biz! I'm sure he eventually corrected it because the rest of it looked great. Time is money with the camera rolling. Would have been refreshing if Norm said "Jesus Brian, thats a mess man. Where is your coping saw, your gonna cope that inside corner right? This is a $2mil house we're building here, get it right!"

[Eddie Darby]

If they made a show on safety with each tool, then it would be a valuable show, but i don't know if anyone would watch it.:cool:

[Chris Bruno]

Problem is the inside corner miter was opened by at least 3/16"! I guess thats show biz! I'm sure he eventually corrected it because the rest of it looked great. "

I saw that one Brian and wondered why the heck he wasn't coping an inside corner of a high end house like that.

Just last night I was watching a new show on DIY called 'Hammered' with these 2 guys in Brooklyn. Its entertaining, because one of the guys is funny and the other clearly has some skill, but last night they were cutting MDF. First, at the table saw he literally shoved/pushed the MDF through the table saw as he was ripping it.. Let me clarify - he pushed it hard enough that he let go and let its momentum carry it through the last few inches of cut!!!

Then, when they cross cut those same pieces to length at the Radial Arm Saw, the cross cut travel wasn't long enough so they PICKED UP the wood into the blade to get the extra few inches of cut that they needed.

I had to shut it off after that..

-Chris

[Rod Sheridan]

If they made a show on safety with each tool, then it would be a valuable show, but i don't know if anyone would watch it.:cool:


Hi Eddie, I just wish they would show people using tools and machinery being used safely, viewers would then think about what they do at home, and perhaps improve their own safety.

Regards, Rod.

[Gordon Harner]

My full time job is as a safety consultant. It shocks me to see some of the construction methods and tool usage on most of these shows.

My company participated in an extreme makeover home edition project. We had a representative at the project the entire week 24 hrs a day. You wouldn't believe the hazards we tried to correct. By the way, the hosts/designersdon't do any physical work.

I have just one funny story to illustrate how bogus the show is. On this project, on the Saturday morning of the reveal, a crew had a string line stretched accross the main entrance to the house so that they could install fence. I put yellow caution tape on the line to try to prevent any tripping accidents. You know who!!? the host tripped on the string line going into the house and did it again when he came out of the house.

It was a circus. We will never volunteer to do that again!!!

[Bill Wyko]

I know no one likes to hear the word O.S.H.A. But if it's going to be on TV it should at least meet the guidelines set by Them. Their not playing with toys. NTM if someone follows their lead, they can sue for something stupid like that. I could hear it now "Well that's how they do it on the TV show" Bad Idea on the networks side.

[Rod Upfold]

My gripe about these shows is that they make everyone think things are so easy and fast to do. My wife doesn't understand why I take so much longer to do things. She wants to redo the master bath and has threatened to tear everything out so I'd have to do it. But she thinks I'll be able to move the tub and shower, move walls, redo the closets, build new cabinets, tile everything, put radiant heat in the floor, do the elctrical and plumbing in three days.

I told her that there was a reason a contractor would want 20k to do it - it would be a lot of work!


I agree...my wife keeps saying its easy...and I say that half-hour show probably 2 week to tape - plus I have never done it before and they have done it 200 times.

[Dave Norris]

I say to my wife all the time when we watch... "Holy cow... that's dangerous" and "there's no way that would look ok". My personal favorites are when they take cabinet doors and staple mdf to it "to give it depth" or when you can see big gaps between drywall and trim and they say "wow, what a change in this room".... yeah, change from halfway normal looking to now looking like crap. And there is no safety, or even common sense... on the one show they were putting in french doors, and they knocked out a doorway in what was clearly a bearing wall, and then just tacked french doors into the whole AFTER removing the header "to make room"

[Thomas Knighton]

I really think the focus on those design shows is "how will this look on TV", rather than how it will look in real life. Stapling cloth to the ceiling looks cool on TV, but you'll see it if you look up in real life.

Unless you see something Mike Holmes does. Mike is the man! ;)

Tom

[Lee Koepke]

I really think the focus on those design shows is "how will this look on TV", rather than how it will look in real life. Stapling cloth to the ceiling looks cool on TV, but you'll see it if you look up in real life.

Unless you see something Mike Holmes does. Mike is the man! ;)

Tom
I would love to see a show where Mike Holmes goes into a home renovation shows house to fix what they did on TV ... :D