Ventilation & Compressor Recommendations - ULS Industrial Series

[Lou Anderson]

We have our first laser arriving early 2008 (universal industrial series machine). We receive some leads from our sales rep on recommended blowers/compressors. I'm looking for some more advice from people who have had the equipment in use. We're looking for a high-quality roof-mountable blower for the ventilation and a quiet compressor to keep indoors.

Quality is the biggest concern. We want good equipment that will last a long time. Does anyone have any particular preference or recommendation as to which brand/style blowers and compressor to use?

Below are the specifications from Universal:

High-pressure vacuum blower capable of
700 CFM (cubic feet per minute) @ 6 inches static pressure
Outside Ventilated
(1190m3/hr at 1.5kPa)

[Scott Shepherd]

Hi Lou, I can't give great advice on the roof mount, but one problem that's given us the run around are quiet compressors. We share the same office the compressor must be in, so the loud units don't work. We bought something that was supposed to be quiet, but it was far from it.

I have located this place http://www.silentaircompressor.com/ and specifically the Sil-Air systems. You can call and the guy will ask you all the right questions and recommend the unit for you. I have found him to be more helpful than anyone else I have spoken to.

We haven't bought one yet, but it's on the list of things to get soon.

I specifically asked about the noise levels and he told me that they made about the same noise as a refridgerator and that you really couldn't hear it from 15ft away.

I think the 1HP (two 1/2 HP units on a 13Gal tank) was $1600 and ships right away.

Give him a call and see if he can help you out.

[Lou Anderson]

Scott - thanks a bunch for the recommendations. I'm going to look into the SilAir recommendation.

..just talked to Ernesto. Here's some information:

Two recommendations as follows:

Carat 106/E ( approx 50db ) ~$2,400
Found at the bottom of this page:
http://www.silentaircompressor.com/panther.html

Dental-Air 1/24/57 (approx 70db) ~$1,800
Found at the top of this page:
http://www.silentaircompressor.com/dental_air.html

[Joe Pelonio]

How much pressure do you need for the compressor? I use an airbrush compressor for the air assist, at 25 lbs. it works for most vector cutting.
This one was under $100 and lasted 2 years so far.

My secondary laser unit used for more pressure, and for other things like blow gun cleaning and spray painting is a portable enclosed unit by "Husky" that goes to 135 psi, and is pretty quiet. I chose it after making many vendors plug in and run units for me to listen to. This was the most quiet. Down in the garage I have 2 more, larger and noisier compressors for larger spray jobs, and air tools.

Try Harbor Freight and Grainger for exhaust fans.

[Lou Anderson]

Sorry i should have given the compressor specifications..

50psi @ 2.5 CFM

From the manual:

Standard Air Assist comes standard with this laser system. Air Assist requires compressed air supplied from the Air Assist Compressor Unit (optional) or from a user supplied compressed air source. If youchoose to provide your own source, it must be capable of supplying 50 PSI (pounds per square inch) at a constant rate of 2.5 CFM (cubic feet per minute). The air supply MUST be oil-free, moisture-free, and particulate filtered.

[Mike Null]

I use a Gast compressor for my rotary and it's quite enough that I can carry on a conversation a few feet away. It is compact and relativley quiet but not silent.

[Scott Shepherd]

Yeah, the airbrush one's don't work on the ULS due to the CFM they require. I looked for months and spent a lot of time looking for an airbrush type compressor that would deliver the 2.5 or 3 CFM at 50psi. Most airbrush compressors, even the large ones that will run multiple brushes seem to focus in on the .9 CFM range.

One thing to also consider (I learned the hard way) is that they have to be able to run continuously. I bought one and after running a large vector file, I touched it and thought it was about to burn the building down. I looked in the manual (it's no where on the specs) and it says that you can't run it for more than 1/2 the time in 1 hour.

The one's I listed can run all the time.

I also called Gast and spoke to them. The told me it was loud and they didn't offer quite models. Gast, if I am right, are the units that are inside of the ULS systems they sell for over $2000 (plus some other stuff).

Gast was the lead I followed for some time. They run in the $300-500 range. It may be quiet enough for you, but I have sheetrock and then neighbors, so I can't make too much noise. The Gast engineer told me it wouldn't work for my application, but it is the one I was told to use.

[Pete Simmons]

Elicent Inline fan

6 or 8 inch dia AXC200B is 636 CFM

Around $250. Very quiet.

What do any of you other users think of these? For maybe a smaller laser?

I have had one running for over 3 years, no problems.

I bet some will say they do not have adaquate static pressure but they sure seem to move plenty of air.

[Lou Anderson]

We're now considering some of the compressors offered by Schulz of America. They're dental grade compressors well suited for what we're doing and they'll have no problems operating 8 hours a day if necessary at 50psi and 2.5 CFM:

http://www.schulzamerica.com/products/oilless.php

The 226HMSV6-1 (http://www.schulzamerica.com/viewpdf/viewpdf226HMSV6-1.pdf) model runs around $1,600 and operates at ~61db.

[Dave Lyda]

We use a Delta dust collector without the bag attached. Without the bag it becomes an inline blower that really moves alot of air. We have it in the ceiling rafters and blows out the back of the building through a vent with a screen on it. We also have a remote electrical switch that is used for outdoor lighting that it is plugged into and the button right next to the laser. We don't even hear the blower when it's on. Our little compressor is a Gast that only weighs a few pounds and is very quiet. Hope this helps.
Dave

[Scott Shepherd]

61db isn't that quiet. If you need quiet, that might be a little loud. It's about what I have now. Don't mind listening to it for a little while, but too long and I can't take it being in the same room with me.

[Paul Brinkmeyer]

I have the Central Pneumatic compressor, #87437. Rated at 30 psi, 2cfm. Seems to be working OK with my ULS. This is so quiet, the laser is noisier, and it is rated at continious duty.

I think the ULS spec is the max for the system, but I do not know that for sure. The Air compressor my rep recomended was even smaller than what I bought.

[Bob Cole]

I can't help you on the blower as I am using the shops dust collector.

I did purchase a HF airbrush compressor and it couldn't keep up and wasn't near the pressure it needed. I ended up using just a regular shop compressor set at 125psi. This is located in the garage piped through the wall. I installed a regulator and reduced to 50psi before the dessicant and air filter. I then have a shut off valve that goes to the laser. This is all located next the machine so makes it easy.

I'm not sure on the industrial or Professional series, but on my X-660, if there is air pressure to the machine, regardless if you have the electronically controlled air assist or not, air flows through the #2 optics. Depending on if you have electronic air assist or not (and what setting is in the software), would depend if air is supplied to the #3 optics (through the cone). Even if the machine is off air will flow through the #2 optics.

[Bill Cunningham]

If your looking for a low cost functional compessor, a refrigerator compressor 'will' work... Or at least a old household freezer compressor will work.. Most are discarded not because the compressor gave out, but because of a loss of freon. Years ago, I had one feeding into a old scuba tank as a receiver, and ran a pop rivet gun off it.. As for pressure! It decided one day to test it.. (I was young and foolish) I turned it on, and let it pump into the tank which had a working pressure of 1800 psi.. I watched it climb, and climb, and then I lost my nerve when it got to 300 psi, and turned it off.. Not having a lot of experience with this type of sealed compressor unit, I had no idea of how high it might go before it would self distruct, but I'm pretty sure it was pumping out more than 2cfm..And, it did keep working afterwards.. If you do use this, just make sure you put a safety blow off in the line, because it 'will' go higher than your hoses will take..

[Mike Null]

Freon hasn't been used in the manufacture of refrigeration for more than ten years. There are severe restrictions on its use and I doubt that you'll find anyone willing to help you out.

That's not to say refrigerator compressors won't work and that a different refrigerant can't be used. But a compressor built for freon must use freon.

My other concern would be heat. I doubt that a refrigerator compressor can run continuosly. In fact, I belive they have a built-in thermal overload switch.

Anyway, these are cautions which bear checking out.

[Bill Cunningham]

The one I was using, was back in the 70's, so the compressor was probably from the sixties(took it out of a old freezer).. It pumped air just fine, and ran all day, 5 days a week.. It was a sealed unit, so I have no idea what 'type' of compressor it was, vane? piston? diapram(I doubt if a diaphram would get the 300 psi I got!).. I guess like everything in consumer goods today, the materials used in the manufacturing have dropped in quality to the point where this type of compressor would now burn out in short order.. I have no idea.. All the compressors I have worked on and rebuilt over the years have been 3000-5000 psi range, in 4 to 60 scfm
.. this one was just a 'wonder if this will work' curiosity..

[Mike Null]

Bill

I retired from the appliance business and I believe the compressors are better today than ever. Two things mandated by the government caused many changes in the manufacture. First was EPA ban on freon (CFC) then came the new energy guidelines which lowered energy usage and operating costs dramatically.

The concern I have is that all compressor manufacturing has been exported. Brazil had long been a major supplier and more recently Mexico and China.

Nevertheless your idea would seem to be worth trying since you've had success with it.

[Lou Anderson]

Paul - thanks for the excellent suggestion. I was unable to locate the compressor part # anywhere. Below is a link to Harbor Freight where some Central Penumatic equipment is shown. Can you point out which one you're referencing?

http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/attributeSearch.do?catPath=All%2BProducts%252F%252 F%252F%252FUserSearch%253DOILLESS%2Bcompressor&currentPage=1&lastPage=2&isNext=false&isPrevious=true&category=&attributeValue=Central+Pneumatic&attributeName=Manufacturer&requestedPage=1



I have the Central Pneumatic compressor, #87437. Rated at 30 psi, 2cfm. Seems to be working OK with my ULS. This is so quiet, the laser is noisier, and it is rated at continious duty.

I think the ULS spec is the max for the system, but I do not know that for sure. The Air compressor my rep recomended was even smaller than what I bought.

[Tony Williams]

what size exhust fan do I need for a versa laser 30 watt VL 200 I'm new at this, and where can I buy it and what should I ask for any help greatful thanks Tony

[Ricky Gore]

I got a package deal for my Laser, Compressor, Blower. Below are the specs on the compressor & blower. I have a 35 watt Epilog Helix 24.
Everything seems to work great.

The compressor is:
Central Pneumatic
1/8 HP Oilless Air Brush Compressor with Regulator
Harbour Freight Item #93657
Currently going for $49.99

The Blower is a Central Machinery 13 Gallon Industrial Dust Collector.
Harbour Freight Item #31810-2VGA
660 CFM, 1HP.
Currently going for $109.99

You can get these Online or at your local Harbour Freight Store.

Good Luck..

[Bill Cunningham]

Bill

I retired from the appliance business and I believe the compressors are better today than ever. Two things mandated by the government caused many changes in the manufacture. First was EPA ban on freon (CFC) then came the new energy guidelines which lowered energy usage and operating costs dramatically.

The concern I have is that all compressor manufacturing has been exported. Brazil had long been a major supplier and more recently Mexico and China.

Nevertheless your idea would seem to be worth trying since you've had success with it.

Just out of curiosity Mike, what 'kind' of compressor would have been in that sealed unit.. It kinda looked like a metal dome/ball, whatever, with metal tube hanging out one end, and a 110V cord and plug hanging out the other.. I just silver soldered a 1/4 npt to the end of the tube... I've rebuilt everything high pressure, from Ingersol 6R-80's to little Walter Kiddie radial four stages.. But for some reason I never got around to ripping that particular dome open to see what was inside..:(

[Paul Brinkmeyer]

Paul - thanks for the excellent suggestion. I was unable to locate the compressor part # anywhere. Below is a link to Harbor Freight where some Central Penumatic equipment is shown. Can you point out which one you're referencing?

http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/attributeSearch.do?catPath=All%2BProducts%252F%252 F%252F%252FUserSearch%253DOILLESS%2Bcompressor&currentPage=1&lastPage=2&isNext=false&isPrevious=true&category=&attributeValue=Central+Pneumatic&attributeName=Manufacturer&requestedPage=1
#34843 is the same. My box has a sticker over the top of the number, I peeled it off, and that is the number under it.

[Rob Bosworth]

Just in case any one is interested, I have two ULS SS air assist compressor units. These are very high quality air assist compressors that are actually operated by the ULS systems controll board. I think ULS sells/ sold these units for about + $2,500 new. They have the inline air dryer assy mounted right on the caster mounted compressor assy. We are selling these like new units for $1,000 each plus shipping. We will also give Sawmill Creekers an additional 20% discount on these units, just mention that you came from here.

[Scott Shepherd]

Rob, can you verify the noise level of these units? I've been around one, but it was in a soundproof closet, so I didn't hear much. I've also been told that those units are a long way from being quiet.

[Rob Bosworth]

Scott, I don't have the ability to measure the dB rating of the unit. So we did a "scientific survey". The Queen and I went out to the shop and plugged it in. It went spppppppplllllllllllpppppdddddppppppppppppp. I then plugged in a gast diaphram pump and it went spppppppplllllllllllpppppdddddppppppppppppp. I think the ULS SS unit was a little noisier, but probably gave better quality air and better pressure. So then we turned on a 2003 ULS V 460 and I thought the compressor was quieter than the fans blowing on the laser system.

I wouldn't call the ULS SS air compressor unit quiet. I do think you could mount it somewhere else and plumb it in better than you could a diaphram pump compressor. Also with the external controll being operated by the laser system would save someone lots of footsteps.

[Richard Rumancik]

We're looking for a high-quality roof-mountable blower for the ventilation and a quiet compressor to keep indoors.

Below are the specifications from Universal:

High-pressure vacuum blower capable of
700 CFM (cubic feet per minute) @ 6 inches static pressure
Outside Ventilated
(1190m3/hr at 1.5kPa)

That's a lot of air!

I don't think you have received many suggestions concerning a blower. I would suggest you look at the Grainger /Dayton products.

I use a 7D754 style Dayton unit from Grainger. It is a belt drive and I have it in a garage attic, so it is not in the weather. If you are roof mounting you might need to put it in a "doghouse" even though some models have covers.

The 4C329/7C561 direct drive would have the specs needed; it needs a 3 hp motor. The 7D760 belt drive would also work, it needs 2 hp. There are many variations with different pulleys/motors. This might get you started. The motors are generally rated at 40C max so on a hot day on your roof, what is the temperature? In my attic it gets very hot, so I needed to ventilate the motor enclosure (yes, a blower to cool the blower motor.)

Also, these units will need some pretty heavy duty power connections (some motors need 3 phase) and suitable controls.

If anyone else is looking for a blower the Grainger/Dayton 7D754 through 7D771 offer a lot of choices for airflow/static pressure. Motors run from 1/2 hp at the low end up to 5hp (which meets the ULS spec for their Model XL-12000.)