Amazon Rant

[Rick Gooden]

I was looking for a 3 1/4 hp router the other day and discovered a Makita 3612C on Amazon for $148.95. I looked at it for 3 days, did my research and realized it was an outstanding deal. Decided to purchase, total with shipping around $177. Last night I noticed the listing was gone and the new amount was $267. At this point I figured I had done very good. Well, today I got an email from Amazon that stated the transaction had been canceled. No explanation, just canceled. The partner is Quality Distributing (I think they need a name change). Amazon said they have not charged my card, however the amount has been deducted from my available funds so it would not be usable at this time. I am not very happy about the situation, but what can you do? I feel I am at least owed an explanation.

[Robert McGowen]

Hi Rick,

This won't, of course, help you any, but Amazon does not really have anything to do with this if I read your post correctly. Think of it this way. Amazon is like the owner of a large shopping mall. They have their own store in the mall also. There are also 1000's of other stores in the mall. You ordered an item from one of the stores in the mall, and there is obviously a problem with that store. The problem is that you are upset with the MALL, i.e. Amazon, and not the store that you purchased from.
I purchase from Amazon all of the time, including 3 times today, but I ONLY purchase from Amazon, not one of it's affiliates. The affiliates (I used to be one) are charged fairly high fees, have high shipping charges, and pass these costs on to the consumer. If the market changed on their price for the router, I am guessing that they just backed out of the deal. I am not sure what recourse you would have other than to leave some sort of negative company feedback on the Amazon site. Good luck!
Just my 2 cents.

The real Amazon, not an affiliate, is selling it for $226.90 right this second including shipping............ who knows how they figure prices?

[Jim Becker]

Since this was not something actually being provided by Amazon, it may have been the "partner" who canceled for whatever reason. I do agree that it would be nice to know "why" your order was bounced.

[Ron Bontz]

Well do not feel you are the only one. I recently ordered a Freud raised panel router bit from Amazon or rather one of their sellers through Amazon. It was almost $25.00 less. Needless to say I did not hesitate and ordered it. A couple of weeks passed before I received an e-mail that the order was canceled. It stated the item was out of stock. Sure enough I went to that company's web site and the router bit was in fact available, only at the normal retail price.
I have no doubt the huge corporations do not honor the values of yesterday. I myself will never ,, and I do mean never, use that company again. I have in fact started going elsewhere rather than Amazon. It does not say much for a company that supports such poor business practices. "And that's all I have to say about that.":)

[Rick Gooden]

I agree that it was a partner at fault. I think they realized the pricing was incorrect and didn't want to lose money. This I can understand, but just be honest and let me know what the deal is. In my business had this happened I would have found out what I needed to do to make my customer happy, including keeping the deal that I made. I do believe that Amazon shares in the responsibility if they are promoting the company. The good news is that I have more important things to think about, like which router should I buy, and from whom should I buy it.

[Daryl Upole]

Rick,

How frustrating! For what it's worth, I've started placing a lot of value on sites with lots of customer feed back for the vendor and products. When I hit one with fair customer relations, I really lean toward them as long as it's a fair value - not even the very best. Once in awhile, I go out on the limb, and try to grad a deal, too. It's probably not worth your time and effort to try to answer the "why" question - but let everyone else know the "who" - that's the only way to shake some of these out.

I, personally, do not like these Amazon-type arrangements where the sponsor does not take some level of responsibility for their "partners". At least eBay, Paypal, etc. have some levels of protection. I prefer to deal with a company who's putting their customer service and money on the line to earn my business. I recently purchased my Powermatic from Amazon after confirming that it was from Amazon, not someone else.

Unfortunately, the practices you and others have described here are all too common. The American consumer and public is incredibly forgiving and has an extremely short memory. We can be burned one day and be standing in line at that same vendor 3 months later for another "deal". That's why I encourage us all to give our loyalty to those who have earned it where ever possible.

[Roger Bell]

Very well stated, Daryl.

[Peter Quadarella]

I think real hard before placing any order on Amazon that is not being offered by Amazon itself. I'll generally check the feedback and try to stick with the bigger partners, even if the price is a little higher.

[Gary Herrmann]

It's not unique to Amazon's partners. I ordered several items that were being sold by Amazon itself during the router sale 3 months ago. Two of those orders were cancelled. I'm still waiting for the last two to ship.

[Chuck Burns]

I've got an Amazon prime membership and buy a ton of stuff from them. Damn near everyhting actually as around here I can't even buy the jeans I like. You are much better of buying from Amazon directly. I took this week off and wanted to get some work done. I ordered two Freud shaper cuters Friday, did overnight for 3.99 and had them on Saturday. Great service.

Whenever you have a problem with them talk to them. Go to the help page and have them call you. They resolve damn near everything in your favor. Pay real close attention to the ratings of their partners; unless they are 98 or 99% don't do business with them. in fact I was thinking that I'd write a letter to Amazon suggesting that they need to police their partners better. They need to impose reasonable shipping times and costs on them and force them to honor their prices.

[Dan Barr]

Americans arent necessarily the smartest shoppers. IMHO they are pretty pathetic shoppers. And that's putting it as mildly as i know how.

I'm one of those thrifty types. I even go to the goodwill store to check for any bargains as well. never know when you might chance on a box of screws for $0.99 or a snow shovel for $2.00. Even 4 perfectly good Polo shirts for 3.99 each.

short memory is the norm in this country for some reason. I am disgusted with the home depot and lowes items almost accross the board. The only thing i'll buy there is cast iron pipe for a pipe clamp and screws.

I cant believe that the public is also buying those low quality tools either. Seriously!? Whats up with the disposable tool syndrome in this country?

im on a soap box apparantly. sorry.

maybe you'll find a good bargain here soon,

dan

[Chris Barnett]

By all means, purchase through Amazon only; they honor their prices. I have not found anywhere the deep discounts Amazon gave this last year: 20% off accessories if you buy a power tool, and if the accessory was a blade or router bit, they discounted 40% off the blade :). I researched and could not even come close to their discounts. Shame they cut it off a week early; thought it was through the end of December since I still needed an Incra router jig. And their customer service is outstanding.

[John Hain]

Pay real close attention to the ratings of their partners; unless they are 98 or 99% don't do business with them.

I agree with this statement. If the seller has an average rating below the 95% positive range, I don't even consider them. If they even have something like 98%, I still read the negative reviews.

No deal is worth getting screwed by poorly run businesses.

[Chuck Tringo]

I actually had the same problem with amazon themselves about 2-3 months ago. They had the new delta contractors saw with no fence (the same one sold at the blue borg) listed for $273 at the same time as the 25% off an accessory with a power tool purchase. needless to say i pulled the trigger with the t2 fence. The next morning i got an email saying that amazon cancelled because the price was wrong and it sometimes happens with their thousands of items. :confused: I got over it pretty quick though as i got a great deal about a month later from sears; they were offering free shipping with liftgate on Jet powertools when they first started carrying them; i got a proshop saw with steel wings (didnt need CI as i already have a benchdog CI router extension); which betters the delta as it has an enclosed motor, for less than $490 with the pallet rolled right into my garage. An comparing the fence to the T2 set up at the blue borg, the Jet is 1000 times better :D. Also this was the only problem i ever had with Amazon, where i have spent far too much on tools over the last 2 years, easily 50 orders or more, as well as some books and other things. I have never used one of their merchants however, i got too used to free shipping, and now that i am amazon prime, the 2 day makes it even better.

[Daryl Upole]

I'm still holding my breath on the PM 66 I just ordered from Amazon with the Excaliber Sliding Table. It was the last one and was just $2,000 with the 5HP and 50" Fence. Shows 66% off retail. Well, I got an email that it shipped. That's a good sign. I'm holding my breath that the Sliding Table actually comes with it.

[Paul Johnstone]

I think that some of the Amazon partners deliberately post fake sales to get your email address to sell to spammers.

There was a thread on another board about one of Amazon's partners that would consistently make the same pricing mistake on the same item every month.. It was something like 30 name brand sawzall blades for $7. At least this one has to be intentional, because it's happened at least 8 times that I know of.

[Pat Keefe]

In Australia, every state has a Dept of Fair trading or like. One of the laws is that if a vendor advertises a price that is the price the item is to be sold at. Even if the price is an error. Now, some negotiation is normal if it is a huge loss for the vendor, but most larger vendors honour this principle as part of their customer service.

Did you get a print out of your order with the price, if so email the vendor and ask why they will not honour the advertised price? Mention this thread as well and cc Amazon.

[Tom Veatch]

I don't claim to know my posterior regions from a hole in the ground when it comes to legal issues, but it seems to me that an offer to sell and an acceptance of that offer creates a binding, enforceable contract. I'm sure there's all kinds of twists and turns in the fine print, but there should be some way to hold their feet to the fire.

[Thomas Knighton]

I don't recall exactly when or over what, but didn't this come up a couple of weeks ago with something else?

It's my understanding that any laws that require a vendor to sell at a posted price, even if it's posted incorrectly, have no application to internet stores. However, I too am a FAR cry from a legal expert and would honestly love to be shown wrong on this one.

Tom

[Stan Smith]

Rick,

How frustrating! For what it's worth, I prefer to deal with a company who's putting their customer service and money on the line to earn my business. I recently purchased my Powermatic from Amazon after confirming that it was from Amazon, not someone else.

Unfortunately, the practices you and others have described here are all too common. The American consumer and public is incredibly forgiving and has an extremely short memory. We can be burned one day and be standing in line at that same vendor 3 months later for another "deal". That's why I encourage us all to give our loyalty to those who have earned it where ever possible.

I totally agree. I've noticed that Amazon's so-called "partners" do not offer the free shipping (that I've found anyway) either so I buy from amazon direct and try to avoid the "partners."

[Gary Herrmann]

Buying from Amazon direct doesn't prevent problems. When they that 20% + 25% off sale on router accessories (if you also buy a qualifying tool), I placed 5 orders that would allow me to build a complete Jessem router table set up.

I just got another notice this morning. They have now cancelled 3 of the 5 orders - 3 months after the original orders.

I received the legs when shortly after I ordered them. However, they have cancelled my order of the motor, the fence and the miter slider.

And of course, I've gotten all the little tools I ordered to qualify for the 45% off.

This was through Amazon. Not a partner. I'm going to cancel the remaining order and send it all back. Whats the point? I've got legs to a router table I'll never receive.

I"ll called them the first two times when they cancelled and got nowhere.

Caveat emptor.

[Dan Barr]

no other words to describe it.

just really really frustrating im sure.

hopefully you'll find the whole shebang on sale elsewhere.

v/r

dan

[John VanDivier]

I'm generally satisfied with Amazon and avoid the vendors. My latest experience brings up questions. I bought and received a Electrolux vacuum cleaner for $222.00 with free shipping. All was great and received the item in 3 days. So, LOML was discussing out happy deal with our daughter in Chicago (we are in Az), and she checked Amazon and found the price for the exact vacuum to be 299.00. We checked also and found it now was 229.00 here. Now I know the Amazon pricing can be very volatile and change from day to day, but why does the price vary so drastically in different areas of the country? Just wondering. John

[Rick Gooden]

Well, I tried Amazons customer service by phone. I was really impressed with how that works. You go online and press call me and your phone starts ringing, wow. Too bad it went downhill from there. The customer service representative could barely speak English and I am sure was not comprehending my problem. Although I was patient this went nowhere. I have done a lot of business in the past with Amazon, but will certainly rethink my purchases now and in the future. It's really hard for me to believe anyone would hire a cs representative that could not competently communicate in the native language. Amazon is not alone in this but frankly I'm fed up with it. I guess my expectations far exceed what are now considered common business practices. I sure am glad that's not the way I was taught and bravo to all of you out there that are doing business the right and ethical way.

[Chris Merriam]

As a former Amazon distribution center manager, I've got to throw in a few words for my former employer.

As of 3 years ago when I left, the #1 rule at that company is customer satisfaction. It is VERY communicated from CEO on down the line.

That being said, keep in mind that Amazon is somewhere like $11 billion in sales this year. Each facility can ship out a couple hundred thousand items a day. There is not a person monitoring each one of those sales. Your order items are probably not even picked by the same person. Backorder stuff is very tough to track, their system is talking to their suppliers' systems, etc.

On the issue of partners, the whole reason those partners are there is to allow you the customer more choice. Imagine if you went in to Walmart to buy something and they had a little Target section roped off with competing items! That's what Amazon has done - you can buy an item from them or from another competitor on their own website.

Of course, none of this helps when you have an order problem. The problems you all cite are breakdowns in the software ordering process, not someone in a back room trying to cheat you out of your money. They wouldn't offer free shipping (at a loss) and such good discounts if they were trying to rip you off.

Anyways, that's my spiel on Amazon!

[Ed Brady]

I agree that Amazon is a good company to deal with. Always has been for me. I also agree with Peter that I am more reluctant to deal with their partners. For one thing the free shipping (for >$25) does not apply. For what it is worth here is a number for Amazon customer service that I don't think is widely available: 800 201 7575.

EDB

[Cary Swoveland]

Buying from Amazon direct doesn't prevent problems. When they that 20% + 25% off sale on router accessories (if you also buy a qualifying tool), I placed 5 orders that would allow me to build a complete Jessem router table set up.

I just got another notice this morning. They have now cancelled 3 of the 5 orders - 3 months after the original orders....

I've had a similar problem with Amazon. In September I bought the Jessem/Milwaukee router and a small power tool, the latter qualifying me for a 45% discount on the router (no doubt the same sale that you refer to). The router was backordered at the time until late October. In October they changed the delivery date to early December. That date come and went and they changed it to early February. Yesterday I got an email saying they can't get the product, so they've cancelled my order. (Yet Jessem continues to supply other sellers). During this long wait I've contacted Amazon several times and each time them promised I would get the item.

I did receive the power tool (that I neither wanted nor needed) that qualified me for the discount.

I'm really disgusted with Amazon's business practice in this case.

My suspicion is that Amazon didn't fully understand the implications of its 20%+25% sale. I'd be interested in knowing how many 'creekers who took advantage of the September sale on backordered items eventually got their merchandise.

Cary