Laguna, just a rant

[Marc Gélinas]

Hello everyone, just thought I'd get this off my chest. I took delivery of a Laguna LT16DD band saw back in mid October. On arrival everything was fine, but as I moved it into the shop (with the tractor) I broke the table support bracket. That's the bracket that the table sits and tilts on.
Since then no luck. Many phone calls later and still can't get the part.
I'm starting to wonder if I shouldn't get rid of the thing and do business with another company! What's it going to be like if in the coming years something else breaks. Am I going to be stuck for months at a time with an inanimate chunk of metal again?
Yes, I could have claimed shipping damage but I consider myself honest. And yes, I understand it's probably not a part that breaks often but how long does a guy have to wait? Haven't even had the pleasure of using it yet.
Well, thanks all for letting me rant.
PS: maybe when I get my mill and metal lathe set up I'll machine myself a part!

[Brian Kent]

Marc, your experience is Rant-worthy!:eek:

I am hoping to buy a bandsaw in about a month and I would be so frustrated if that happens.

I have read before about a wide gap between the extremely high quality of Laguna saws and their poor customer service. They would do so much better if they got their customer responses in order.

Sorry about your delay. I hope someday this will become a footnote to a lot of great usage and that Laguna gets their act together.

Brian

[John Shuk]

Marc,
I have a Laguna bandsaw and I often consider selling it and getting something else. I have never been happy with the company and I don't think the machine is really worth the premium pricetag. I had to wait 3 months for them to get me the right switch just so I could use the saw when it was new.
Now if the product actually lived up to the marketing it would really be something.

[Marc Gélinas]

Thanks for the encouragement. Most of what I've read about their machines quality has been quite good, with mostly positive comments. However, seems both of you are right about the customer service. They say patience is a virtue but I'm not feeling that virtuous right now.
Thanks.

[Chuck Burns]

A decent company would strip the part of a new one that was in stock and send it to you to keep you happy. When i bought a BS I never even considered them because I had heard nothing good about their customer service. They don't realize that they can take out big adds in FWW, attend trade show and it will be for nought in the end because people thinkl about their big purchases and search forums like this. Laguna should either fire thier people here if they are employees or termnate the relationship if they are using an exclusive importer.

Hell if they were smart they'd have somebody searching all the forums for mention of their name on a daily basis. Find out the contact info for the manufacturer and contact them directly. Screw the importer.

[sascha gast]

sorry to hear about your bad luck but I can't agree on the bad rap they get, they have been nothing but great to me and always came through with anything I needed.
though I understand your frustration, for those guys just repeating what they "heard" is not really helping anybody.
just make sure you don't get stuck with the lady at the front desk and ask for somebody that actually deals with the machines, and honestly, my 16HD is worth every penny. I'd buy again in a heart beat.

[Ted Miller]

I agree, I have had Laguna tools since '93 and never have I had one single complaint about their customer service or technical support.

Most of the parts come from Bulgaria, and yes it takes at least 8 weeks to get some parts that are not stocked. But when they come in, they not only call me but they e-mail me as well.

I go to them first for all my large tool purchases...

[Ron Williams]

I have a 16HD and love it. Stay on them

[Tom Cowie]

sorry to hear about your bad luck but I can't agree on the bad rap they get, they have been nothing but great to me and always came through with anything I needed.
though I understand your frustration, for those guys just repeating what they "heard" is not really helping anybody.
just make sure you don't get stuck with the lady at the front desk and ask for somebody that actually deals with the machines, and honestly, my 16HD is worth every penny. I'd buy again in a heart beat.

Same here Sascha. I have an LT20 no problems with the CS. The sales people sometimes don't have all the answers but i've found that to be almost normal everywhere.

Tom

[Steve Rowe]

Marc,
I suggest calling and asking to speak with the General Manager. If he is still there, his name is Greg. Explain the issue you are having and ask him to get involved in the resolution. I had to push an item up to this level once to get missing parts on a show machine. Sometimes, you just have to elevate things to management to get a fire lit under someone. Laguna was slow in resolving it but, it did get resolved. I have had an LT-18 for going on 8 years now and it is a great machine.
Steve

[Bruce Page]

Marc, I would be so ticked off! I hope they resolve this soon for you.
One of the reasons that I bought my MM16 was because of the positive customer service comments that I heard & read. I looked at the Laguna HD16 but shied away from it mainly because of stories like this.
I agree with Chuck. You can have a good product & good advertising but you’ll be seen unfavorably if you don’t back the product up.

[Bill Wyko]

Well that takes one more brand off the list of companies I'll buy from. I was looking at Laguna for a bandsaw too. I've outgrown my 14" Rikon. Thanks for the rant.

[glenn bradley]

I'm with Bruce; there are lots of quality machines out there in that price range. I'll take a solid machine from a company that takes care of their customers before I'll take a solid-plus machine that I can't get serviced. My money goes to the folks who take care of me and I try to avoid becoming sentimentally attached to a given brand or machine.

Maybe Sasha, Ted or Ron could give you a name of someone that was able to help them to get you through this. In Laguna's defense, I have had the experience where I thought I wasn't being helped and it turned out I just hadn't hit the right person yet. Agreed, anyone on the front line of CS should jump through hoops to help you. Be sure to get names and times of conversations and feel free to blast off emails. When you call in, don't reference the previous calls, that just routes you to the same knucklehead who hasn't been able to help you.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I had the impression that Laguna doesn't even have a parts inventory in the USA.

Their sales geek admitted to me (I consider it an admission and an admission is always about something bad) that they don't have any technical people in the USA.

What you might do is contact their Italian manufacturer. Probably faster easier cleaner.

[Glen Blanchard]

I'd suggest you send them an e-mail with a link to this thread !!!!

[Doug Shepard]

I'd suggest you send them an e-mail with a link to this thread !!!!

Doesn't seem to do all that much good. Go on the Knots forum and search for posts from member Catherine_Helshoj_Laguna. There's only one. That particular thread is pretty scary just from the sheer number of CS issues raised by posters and the apparent ease with which the owners seem to think the issues are all addressed.

[Glen Blanchard]

Doesn't seem to do all that much good. Go on the Knots forum and search for posts from member Catherine_Helshoj_Laguna. There's only one. That particular thread is pretty scary just from the sheer number of CS issues raised by posters and the apparent ease with which the owners seem to think the issues are all addressed.


Well, if a tool manufacturer is not concerned about a thread like this (knowing how fast information and reputations circulate on the Internet) they are IMHO, worthless !!

[John Thompson]

I cannot post a direct complaint against any of my Luguna tools as I don't have any. When shopping a BS over a year ago... they were high on my list of probables. I called and spoke to a salesman for about 45 minutes as I know machines relatively well and I "drilled" him with questions.

He did answer every one and "bad mouthed" the competitor when I mentioned their machine had this or that. He flat out lied in some cases as I knew the competitors machine well. I felt he felt I was another country bumpkin from the south without any prior knowledge of how a BS should operate.

I did ask for brochures of the machine be sent as I felt the machine still warranted consideration even though I was not impressed with the manner I was dealt with. Then I called MM to check into their machine as I have been over both Laguna and MM at the WW shows..

The response I got was over-whelming.. every question answered to a T and not one reference to the competitors machine. If I mentioned the competitor attempting to see if he would "bad mouth" it.. he would inter-ject that he didn't have to do so... Just compare the machines. And that's what I wanted to hear.

Even though I did cancel the deposit as I found everything I required (I don't necessarily need 16" re-saw as I am not a turner) in the Steel City 18" at half the price... I was very impressed with several phone conversations to MM. BTW.. when I requested brochures for the MM machine... I got them 4 days latter but Eric e-mailed pictures of the MM 16 and E-16 (?) within 10 minutes even though I didn't request those. About 20 pictures total with close-ups of every angle of components and angles you can imagine...

And in their defense.... I did recieve the brochure from Laguna 6 months after the request. Or perhaps it was just a random mailing as I am on quite a few mailing list concerning WW? I don't know and really don't care at this point as regardless of how good the machine that comes from over there... I feel it's only as good as the support and spare parts that gets to me from over here.

Good luck as I feel you'll need it and I am glad some have found satisfaction in their puchase. I am just not one of those that found satisfaction of my attemped purchase.

Sarge..

[Michael Hammers]

I am finding this thread fascinating as I just happen to be buying a large BS at this time.
I have called Laguna and still have not had a response back, could be the holidays but I doubt it. I called MM and had a GREAT experience and a mailed brochure in two days. Sam was honest, did not bad mouth and offered several options. Pleasure to speak with. Grizzly has been the same way as MM. They act as if they truly want my business. I do not care how nice of a piece of equipment is, if you cannot get it serviced it's a very expensive paper weight.
I know 2 grand is not much for large companies, but for me it is, and if you add up the purchasing power of just this community alone I would believe it to be significant.
If Laguna p'shaw's the likes of woodworkers just at this site alone, I will just keep on walking...

[Steve Rowe]

I had the impression that Laguna doesn't even have a parts inventory in the USA.

Their sales geek admitted to me (I consider it an admission and an admission is always about something bad) that they don't have any technical people in the USA.

What you might do is contact their Italian manufacturer. Probably faster easier cleaner.
Well - I can attest that this is not true because I have spoken with a tech person at Laguna on resolving a starting issue with a lathe. I have also ordered parts from them and they do carry inventory (at least what I needed).

[Dan Lautner]

I have a hunch that Laguna will not be around all that much longer. I was talking to some vendors at a ww show and was told they may be hurting. They used to have no competition. Now they have a ton of direct competition. Their customer service and reputation are horrible. With a weak dollar and an economy on the brink of recession I would not be suprised if they called it quits just like Wilkes.

Dan

[Ted Miller]

You are correct Steve, all the techs are right here in Irvine, CA USA.

Laguna has a good size warehouse with a lot of parts, been there many times and I get most of what I need. Again right here in Irvine, CA USA.

Some parts on my older TS had to be ordered and yes it took 8 weeks to get them. We even dug through the warehouse and found some parts to get me by.

Also more incorrect info the machines, they come from Bulgaria except the new signature line and the saw blades...

[Bill Wyko]

|Well, I decided to call Laguna and tell them that I was looking at their bandsaw. But when I saw that they hadn't taken care of such a basic issue for a customer that had been in touch with them so many times. I said I'd be looking at other products that offered better customer service. I also said they might want to look at SMC and address this issue asap. I hope this gets them off their duffs and gets this handled for you.

[Vince Shriver]

My next large purchase will be a band saw. I don't see Laguna occupying that spot. It just seems so odd that a company chooses to blow off their customers with such a cavalier attitude. Maybe somebody should tell Laguna about the internet!

[John Shuk]

I have seen people post who have had great customer service experiences with Laguna. All I can say is that mine was way less than great.

[Chuck Burns]

It's been my expereince that when a company is not responsive before they get your money things only go downhill after they get your money.

The only thing I can think of is that they exist in the world as it existed 30 years ago when there was no contact between customers and potential customers. In this age of the internet and forums you have to be on your toes. One employee dropping the ball and one customer posting about it could cost you a dozen sales.

If I had bought a new tool and couldn't use t for months for lack of a part (even if I screwed up the part) I'd be hot.

[Marc Gélinas]

Hello everyone, seems the issue may be resolved, they called me up yesterday and told me they'd take a part off an existing saw and ship it to me ASAP. I'll believe it when I see it! I'll let you know when it comes in. Maybe even post a picture of it!!
PS I guess I'd better order replacement guides now so I'll have them before the original ones wear out (he says with dripping sarcasm!).

[Richard Dragin]

Wow, everyone is jumping on Marc's bandwagon without knowing very much at all.

Marc, what kind of time frame are we talking about here? "Many phone calls" could be in a short amount of time so please elaborate. What did they tell you? Is the part on order and were you told how long it would take to get it? I see you are in Canada, how long does it typically take to get things shipped to you there? I also see that you posted this on the 27th and with the holidays it could delay things, when did you first call them to order the part?

Before the posse get's ready for a hangin they should maybe ask about the facts.

[Brad Peterson]

Richard, he stated - or at least implied - that this took place last October. Seems like plenty of time to get a response from Laguna. If you have a different experience, then by all means share it. But to defend the company by "questioning" the OP and followers then you have put yourself into the same position against which you are warning. Just my thought.

I don't own any "high-price" tools because I am just a hobbyist. So I can't comment on Laguna at all. Hopefully, Marc, your situation gets resolved sooner rather than later.

[Richard Dragin]

Brad,
My bad, after rereading it you are correct about the implied time frame. I am not defending the company at all and questioning something posted shouldn't be taken as choosing sides. I am not assuming anything here and would like to know more before I form an opinion one way or another. Therer are always two sides to every story but we usually only get one side on these forums and I don't automatically side with the poster without ample information.

[John Shuk]

Without going into the story because I have done so too many times. You would not believe the arrogance some of the folks at Laguna showed when I was having trouble. There was a salesman there named Larry Drum who took the bull by the horns for me and made some things happen. He was a quality guy and If he is working for another company I would recommend him highly. Unfortunately one good guy can't make a company.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Well - I can attest that this is not true because I have spoken with a tech person at Laguna on resolving a starting issue with a lathe. I have also ordered parts from them and they do carry inventory (at least what I needed).

What is not true - - that the sales geek told me there was nothing or that the sales geek was wrong?

It makes all the difference in the world.

I wouldn't buy Laguna on a dare.

[Greg Funk]

Marc,

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I'm certain once you get fixed up you will be very happy with the saw. I've had a 16HD for 5 yrs and haven't had any problems yet with the saw or Laguna.

My observation is that while most of these Italian machines are great once they are up and running all of the resellers (Laguna, MM etc) are relatively small and have a significantly higher rate of initial problems than larger manufacturers like Delta.

Greg

[Jim Andrew]

My MM salesman still calls once in a while to see how I'm getting along with my MM16, which I bought 2 years ago. Haven't needed any repairs.
While it is more bandsaw than I'll ever need, sure is nice to have a smooth running machine. I spent a few months on a junky old bandsaw once, and just could not face a rattling old junkpile. Jim

[Art King]

Why don't you just head off to a welding/machine shop and get the part repaired? Hard to see where Laguna is a bad guy here.
Art King

[John Hain]

Why don't you just head off to a welding/machine shop and get the part repaired? Hard to see where Laguna is a bad guy here.
Art King

Unless, of course, timely customer service is important to you.

[Marc Gélinas]

Just to put things straight and in perspective, I received the saw on the 17th of October (2007) and called a couple days after to inquire about the availability of a part. I was told they had none in stock and would call me back with news as soon as possible. They had not called me within about a week so I called them back, still non news about part availability and waited again for a call back, never came. Called again and was told (about mid December) they'd check to see if they could pull a part off an existing saw and call back. Now we're between Christmas and new years and still no call back. I do understand the limitations the holiday rush can put on companies but I decide to call back anyway and finally they actually call back with a solution.

Now; in all fairness I realize that we are not talking about a part that commonly breaks and that I live in Canada. However, an honest answer from the company telling me I would have to wait a number of weeks or months would have been appreciated. Hell just a returned (as promised) phone call would have been appreciated. The fact that I live in Canada doesn't and shouldn't in any way significantly affect the time it takes to get me a part, Fedex and UPS do a very good job at shipping across borders. Look, I'm not trying to discredit Lagunas' products in any way as I have no experience with them (yet). In the end I'm merely commenting on what I perceive as a certain lack of customer service and the frustration that comes with having a brand spanking new non functioning saw.

[Richard Dragin]

I can understand them not having the part and taking a month or two to get it, they probably only receive shipments when they have a full shipping container and then have to clear customs. I don't understand the lack of call backs when promised and do see your point, it is sub par service. having the machine sitting there without being able to use it would drive me nuts.

[Dave Lehnert]

I for one with all I have read about this company and customer service will never buy from them. They may have the best bandsaw on the market but if I need a part and they can’t deliver what good is the saw?

[Steve Milito]

I can understand them not having the part and taking a month or two to get it, they probably only receive shipments when they have a full shipping container and then have to clear customs. I don't understand the lack of call backs when promised and do see your point, it is sub par service. having the machine sitting there without being able to use it would drive me nuts.

I disagree. I can understand a two month backorder on new machines if they misjudged inventory and only import full containers, but not for a part. They should offer the customer the opportunity to have the part shipped in at the customers expense if it is not a under warrenty, or eat the cost if it is under warrenty.

[Marc Gélinas]

Just to respond to M. King's post, I did try that road but unfortunately the part in question is made of cast iron and therefore difficult to weld. I did inquire about having it done from a couple of welders but was told it would be a touch and go job and since the part is machined, would perhaps need additional machining. It therefore became a question of cost it was simply cheaper to wait for the part, albeit impatiently on my part.

[Chuck Burns]

I've been folloeing this post with interest. You didn't lie to them and claim the saw was defective; you admitted your error and (as I understand it) offered to buy the part. Apparently they didn't have the part in stock.

At that point in time they could have pulled the part of an inventory saw and sent it to you and then ordered a part to replace the pulled part.

If they were unwilling to do that the proper response was not to wait on a container shipment. Now unless UPS, DHL and FedEx are advertising non-existant services I believe frieght moves around the globe by air. They should have called or emailed the factory and had them overnight the damn part to your doorstep. And then split the cost or something.

Doing nothing and then not communicating with you was the worst thing they could have done. How many people has this thread influenced all ready. Over the next year how many will read it when searching the forum for help in deciding what saw to buy. Their lousy CS could easily cost them dozens of sales. How much better would it have been for them if you had posted, last October, that you had broken the part, that it was an oddball part that never needed replacing, but to help you get you using your new saw, they airfreighted and drop shipped the part at no cost to you, and what a great company they were. Quite frankly, in this day and age, with a high end consumer product, that is the level of service I expect.

[Bill Wyko]

Maby they could exchange a complete machine and you pay the price of the broken part if they can't seem to come up with parts for the product they make. Seems fair to me. I know one thing. Laguna is out of the question for me now.

[FRITZ STOOP]

First I like to say that if these were small ticket items, there would be no apologists. After a healthy chunk of $ disappears into a silent sea of problems, even I end up rationalizing for the bad company's short comings instead of just admitting I MIGHT HAVE PICKED THE WRONG VENDOR.

Last year ('06) I moved and was quickly setting up a 2-car garage home shop. It was time for a new workbench (and no shop in which to build one) and I'd had a good year, so I thought I'd treat myself to a nice one. I picked the LT "signature" model for $2.5K!. Well. Of course it showed up late and was a mess. Poorly made with cheapest parts they could find. The only plus was the massive amount of wood albeit sadly put together. Calls and emails were laughed off or ignored. Two years pass.

So now I’ve got a nice new (to me) shop space and decided to upgrade my band saw. Benny at LT, via email, first acknowledged the funky bench. I quote, “your comments on the wk bench are correct.” He acknowledged the shoddy work and quality, but he quickly went on to offer me free shipping and no tax, as long as I bought $600 worth of options and moved up a couple grades on my model choice (+ another $1200)!! So, his idea of making it up to me was to sell me a saw and extras that amounted to $1800 more than I had originally wanted to spend on my first choice ($1500)! But no tax and shipping, he says. La De Da. There’s more, but no time.

Then, a couple weeks later I get another call from LT, a different guy. I forget his name, but did you ever notice these guys all sound like extras on the Sopranos? :cool: Well, ‘dis guy, he says he’s read all da emails and wants to know how we can, ya know, fix ‘dis “problem?”

So I tell him there are some competitors that have as good or better saws out there with some year-end pricing, more HP, mobility and mitre fence included. He goes on about Baldour blah, blah, blah, but no discount. What about the crappy workbench (off of which I have ground the LAGUNA logo), the cheap slides, etc.? ………Silence……….

So I tell him I just took delivery of a MM16. To which he says, “What else could I help you with?” , like I had just bought his machine! So I tell him I am in the market for a sliding TS, and ask what he can do for me in light of all of this?

He offers to send me some brochures!

As my Grandmother used to say, “Enough is too much!”

[Marc Gélinas]

Yes, the part I needed actually was sent FedEx. Finally I can plug it in! (picture of part attached)

[John Shuk]

Yes, the part I needed actually was sent FedEx. Finally I can plug it in! (picture of part attached)

By the way...on my LT16 2 of those adjustable handles broke way too easily.:eek:

[Bruce Page]

Yes, the part I needed actually was sent FedEx. Finally I can plug it in! (picture of part attached)

Congrats Marc, go make some sawdust!

[Marc Gélinas]

Thank you all for your indulgence of my little rant. Will be careful with those handles and will make sawdust (as soon as the wife lets me!).

[Jim King]

I think this was just an example of miscomunication in todays very busy world and with everyone running around like crazy trying to keep up with their lives it is easy to understand. The attached email below was responded to fast and they were obviously concerned over the problem and responded accordingly to fix the problem.

Things like this bother me as a supplier as I would not want something like this going on about my products if I didnt have the chance to make it right. I am glad all worked out well . I think the lesson is keep communicating. I have done this same thing with other rants to other companies and all responded and worked out the problem.

Jim

FW: Laguna Tools Literature / Fecha:Mon, 31 Dec 2007 09:41:07 -0800De:"Front Office" <FrontOffice@lagunatools.com> http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/pim/el/abook_add_1.gifAñadir a Libreta de direcciones (http://javascript<b></b>:document.frmAddAddrs.submit())Para:jameskingpe@ya hoo.es



Thank you Jim for emailing this over to us. It's very unfortunate to see that one of our clients feels this way.We will look further into this.Thank you once again...Have a great New Year!Best Regards,Ashley-----

Original Message-----From: Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 7:03 AMTo: lagunabandit@yahoo.com It (http://es.f262.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?To=lagunabandit@yahoo.com&YY=18288&y5beta=yes&y5beta=yes&order=down&sort=date&pos=0&view=a&head=b) was submitted by () on Saturday, December 29, 2007 at 10:03:17---------------------------------------------------------------------------from: Laguna Tools Video / Literature Request FormName: Jim KingAddress: Los Lirios 222City: Iquitos, State: Loreto , Email: jameskingpe@yahoo.es (http://es.f262.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?To=jameskingpe@yahoo.es&YY=18288&y5beta=yes&y5beta=yes&order=down&sort=date&pos=0&view=a&head=b)This is how they heard about us:

Comments: You should look at thishttp://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=72323 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=72323)submit: Send---------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Bill Wyko]

When I had called them last week they said they would take this seriously and get it handled. I had mentioned that they should look at SMC and see how many people are looking at this situation. Apparently the power of SMC has spoken again. I'm glad that you're back in the saddle. Don't forget to post pics of your work.:D

[Jack Camillo]

I can't say enough good about my 16hd and the customer service I've experienced. I wouldn't trade my 16hd for any other band saw. I don't have stock in the company, but recommend the bandsaws highly. Sorrly to hear about your problems. That sorta stuff is unacceptable and frustrating.

[Scott Brihn]

I snapped an old 1/2" band last Friday night on my 16HD and temporarily jammed up the spring/tension wheel. I called Laguna minutes after the incident and missed the tech by minutes due to closing time. First thing Monday a Laguna tech called to help. I had already solved the problem but they did follow up.

[Marc Gélinas]

Thanks guys, issue resolved and got a call from their customer service manager (Shawn) with an apology and an assurance for future service. Once again I appreciate SMC member's input. Oh! and as for pictures of work I don't have much, work and family obligations have limited me mostly to remodeling work on our home (which now has been sold), remodeling work on a second property (also sold) and a timber frame build for the in laws. Here are a couple of picks of the addition just for the sake of it.