Bare Necessities

[Thomas Knighton]

Recently, on the general woodworking forum, I mentioned an upcoming move and the loss of a halfway decent sized shop. I'll go from a 16'x20' garage I was planning on using to something more likely to be 6'x8'. There's a screened in back porch and a patio to work on, but they also have to be accessible and usable by the rest of the family.

One of the suggestions made was to look into hand tools. Now, I'm concerned about the time to cut down things like plywood, but overall I'm intrigued by the idea of hand tools. Also, the dirt cheap purchase of a Stanley #4 (from 1933-1941) and the brace I posted about for a whole $1.25 (Yep...that was my first gloat :D) has me looking more into that direction.

My question to you folks is this:

What are the bare necessities for a new woodworker? Not necessarily brands, but particular items (like "quality chisels" instead of "Two Cherries chisels")

Some things are obvious, but other things might not be so clear. Not only that, but some of this stuff is a bit confusing ;)

Any help is appreciated!

Thanks,
Tom

[Jim Becker]

Tom, leave the plywood portioning to a guided circular saw system...portable and accurate.

For basic hand tools, and I'm certainly not an expert, quality measuring tools (I prefer steel rules of various lengths) and squares, quality chisels, a quality block plane , a smoother or jack, a dovetail saw and some card scrapers would seem to be the "minimum" to get started, along with some form of bench to use them on. That can be portable as long as you're not going to be doing heavy planing. Other items I'd not be without include clamps.

[Corvin Alstot]

Thomas what kind of projects are you interested. The tools will need to fit
the type project; i.e. cabinets, furniture, etc.

[Bill Houghton]

You can find lots of books on hand tool use in your local library - well, you should be able to, if your library's at all worthwhile. Read them all. Make your best judgment, then, about how to start.

To Jim Becker's list, I would add two things: a) a couple of extra saws, one cross-cut and one rip, for cutting stock to size; and b) benches.

You need a tolerably decent workbench (though you might be able to get started with a Workmate, it's hard to do serious planing on one, as the d--- thing keeps wanting to run away), and you also need a couple of saw horses of the right height for using a hand powered saw - this is lower than carpenter's sawhorses.

also: buy less than you think you'll need, and see what those tools will do; then buy the tools that fill the holes left.

[Thomas Knighton]

I guess I was to general with my request, and can understand the need to be more specific. I'm wanting to make furniture.

I've already got a few power tools (compound miter saw, circular saw, jig saw, and drill...the jigsaw and drill are no-name brands though...so I don't expect much out of them), and very few hand tools. However, with a small shop, hand tools look like an attractive alternative for me.

I know I need to decent chisels, and to get my #4 up and ready to work. I know I need a block plane, and saws of some type. Darned if I can tell what's what. I figure I need one that will rip, and one that will cross cut (as was suggested). Is a dovetail saw that much different than either of those two? I like the looks of the Japanese saws, since the pull motion just seems to fit me better based on previous hand sawing attempts, but I rule nothing out. I figure I will, in time, need something that will cut curves.

I fully understand about a workbench, and that's my first project, regardless of what other tools I pick up.

I guess I'm just worried I'm missing something here.

As for woodworking books in the library, our library usually has diddly-squat on any subject. I just purchase books like that anyways, since my retention ability seems to lack at times...reference is a good thing ;)

Thanks for the help so far!

Tom

[Marcus Ward]

I'll take a stab at it:
a GOOD set of chisels. I'd recommend the grizzly set of japanese chisels as they're a good range of sizes and from reviews I've read, quite good. If you do any mortise and tenon construction you'll need at least 2 big heavy mortise chisels as well.
hand planes: #4 smoother, #5 jack, #7 or #8 jointer, a #60 1/2 block plane, a shoulder plane #93, a router plane #71, spokeshaves #51 or #151, and a #63, a #80 cabinet scraper - this, sharpened properly, can make you forget sandpaper exists.
hand saws: disston D8 rip, D23 crosscut (these are how they're filed, the saws came both ways). 2 disston No 4 backsaws, one filed rip for tenon cheeks, one filed crosscut for miter cuts, a small dovetail saw. Some people prefer gents saws (straight handles) but I can't seem to use them well. I have a japanese saw that is incredible but I can't cut straight with it either. I use a saw similar to a disston No 70 and really like it. (Yes a dovetail saw is very different from a large rip saw).
brace and bits. Powerdrills are fine for small holes but when you want to crank a big hole through hardwood, these rule the roost. I love mine.
sharpening equipment - this is of utmost importance if you're using edged tools. There are as many ways to sharpen as there are people on this forum so you will have to figure out what works for you from the myriad of posts on the subject.
A mallet to whack things with. It should be wooden so you can use it on your chisels.
a good set of measuring and marking tools. a marking gauge, combination square, scratch awl, marking knife, machinists square, tape measure, pencils.
a good workbench. it should be as big and as solid as you can make it. overbuild as much as possible. and read chris shwarz's book on the subject before starting.
clamps! 2 8" and 2 12" handscrews, assorted c clamps and some big pipe clamps, and a few bar clamps smaller than the pipe clamps for intermediate jobs.I'm sure I'm forgetting some things but maybe this list will get other people's ideas flowing so they can fill in the holes. This isn't the minimum necessary to start using hand tools but you said you wanted to build furniture so I tried to be thorough.

[James Mittlefehldt]

What Marcus suggests is pretty much a complete kit, but since your just starting into hand tools, I would suggest getting a good book on handtool wood working so you have an idea what is what, then print off what Marcus says and put it on the wall of your new shop.

As you do projects buy what you need for each project, and build your kit that way. A bench is essential as is sharpening stuff, after that get what you need as you need it.

You can often compromise, like say using a no 6 if you happen to find a good one as a jointer and a jack, or even a jack plane as a jointer if needs be, not ideal but workable as you can probably find two or three servicable jack planes for less money than one good 7 or 8 jointer. Bottom line is get what you need, to do what you are doing at the time, and cross them off the list as they arrive.

Good luck to you I would hate to have to go to that small of a space.

[Prashun Patel]

Don't let yr space limitation drive yr decision to use hand tools. A good power tool is worth it's weight in gold. A 6'x8' space is going to be hard to maneuver in - especially with a bench in there (IMHO).

As a homeowner in yr same position, I'd look instead into ways to set up quick and temporary shops in yr basement/garage/outside or wherever you can grab space.

To that end, I'd invest in these:

1) A circ saw with the Eurekazone EZSmart smartguide. It'll allow you to do a lot of things a table saw can do. Collapses down and stores easy.

2) knockdown saw horses and tables. There are a bunch of plans on the 'net. I built a pair of horses out of a couple 1x4's for about $20. They make perfect work supports, paint stands, outfeed supports.

3) Power miter saw. Cutting lumber by hand is tedious and imprecise. A power box is better than manual bkz you can 'sneak up' and shave cuts to get them to fit perfectly.

4) Clamps. You can't have too many when it comes to gluing. I'd get 12 bar clamps in varying lengths (12" to 48"). You can get these cheap on ebay ($20 per 4). I'd also get a pair of quickclamps (onehanded).

5) Shopvac with a hepa filter. In a pinch it'll make a passable portable dust collector.

6) router. I just built a miter saw table that has a router table extension in it. It's compact and works beautifully (for me).

[Thomas Knighton]

I'll take a stab at it:

killer list snipped

I'm sure I'm forgetting some things but maybe this list will get other people's ideas flowing so they can fill in the holes. This isn't the minimum necessary to start using hand tools but you said you wanted to build furniture so I tried to be thorough.

Ummm....WOW? Very complete list! Thank you so much for this. This will definitely be a "Go to" list for me :D

The only thing I was thinking of doing differently was a set of "knock around" chisels from Lee Valley and some much more high end Japanese chisels down the road. However, I didn't know about Grizzly's set...must have missed them in the catalog somehow.


What Marcus suggests is pretty much a complete kit, but since your just starting into hand tools, I would suggest getting a good book on handtool wood working so you have an idea what is what, then print off what Marcus says and put it on the wall of your new shop.

As you do projects buy what you need for each project, and build your kit that way. A bench is essential as is sharpening stuff, after that get what you need as you need it.

Any suggestions? I put one from Popular Woodworking in my cart on Amazon this morning, though waiting for payday to refill my book fund before pulling the trigger. Any others?

[/quote]You can often compromise, like say using a no 6 if you happen to find a good one as a jointer and a jack, or even a jack plane as a jointer if needs be, not ideal but workable as you can probably find two or three servicable jack planes for less money than one good 7 or 8 jointer. Bottom line is get what you need, to do what you are doing at the time, and cross them off the list as they arrive.[/quote]

Good info to know. Is there a special way to tune a jack plane that will be used as a jointer?

Good luck to you I would hate to have to go to that small of a space.[/quote]


Don't let yr space limitation drive yr decision to use hand tools. A good power tool is worth it's weight in gold. A 6'x8' space is going to be hard to maneuver in - especially with a bench in there (IMHO).

As a homeowner in yr same position, I'd look instead into ways to set up quick and temporary shops in yr basement/garage/outside or wherever you can grab space.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I haven't ruled out power tools. However, it's best to have all the facts and get an idea of as much as possible. Even if I do use some power tools, they'll probably be limited to just a few.


To that end, I'd invest in these:

1) A circ saw with the Eurekazone EZSmart smartguide. It'll allow you to do a lot of things a table saw can do. Collapses down and stores easy.

I looked at the SmartGuide system, but decided to pass on it. Frankly, by the time you buy the items recommended for it, just from Eurekazone, you've got as much invested as in a table saw, but without the aftermarket support and available resources. In time, that may change, but I just can't go that route right now.


2) knockdown saw horses and tables. There are a bunch of plans on the 'net. I built a pair of horses out of a couple 1x4's for about $20. They make perfect work supports, paint stands, outfeed supports.

Already ahead of you there. Got a set ;)


3) Power miter saw. Cutting lumber by hand is tedious and imprecise. A power box is better than manual bkz you can 'sneak up' and shave cuts to get them to fit perfectly.


4) Clamps. You can't have too many when it comes to gluing. I'd get 12 bar clamps in varying lengths (12" to 48"). You can get these cheap on ebay ($20 per 4). I'd also get a pair of quickclamps (onehanded).

5) Shopvac with a hepa filter. In a pinch it'll make a passable portable dust collector.

Great tips, especially the ebay clamps. I'll have to see if I can hunt them down later!


6) router. I just built a miter saw table that has a router table extension in it. It's compact and works beautifully (for me).

If I do use power tools, a router would be a must, that's for sure :D

Thanks again folks. I welcome further suggestions as well, though Marcus' list will be pretty hard to top :D

Tom

[Jim Becker]

I looked at the SmartGuide system, but decided to pass on it. Frankly, by the time you buy the items recommended for it, just from Eurekazone, you've got as much invested as in a table saw, but without the aftermarket support and available resources.

You don't need all the bells and whistles. You need the guide rail and the mount for the saw. That's it. You can support your work on some foam insulation board that you can buy inexpensively and cut up into smaller pieces for easy storage. In this way, you can cut down sheet goods accurately the first time on the floor of your deck/patio and then put everything away. If you don't want to buy a guide system, then make your own guide rail using a couple factory edges from some MDF (Get a long rips done at the 'borg) for the base and for the "fence" to run the base of your saw along. Honestly, I think this is going to be an essential part of your workshop lineup for awhile until you do have a larger space to work. Getting the material cut down (inaccurately) at the store gets old really fast...

[James Mittlefehldt]

The one book that got me off my chair and into a shop was called The Stanley Book of Woodwork; Tools, Techniques, Projects, by Mark Finney.

Forget using the new Stanley tools the author recomends, but his techniques are great, and everthing in the book, techniques, projects etc is geared to hand tools and only hand tools no compromises. It would give you the basics and get you started.

He starts first with tools, then techniques, then projects, that build on the methods already discussed. He gives lists under each section of required tools and optional ones you might want to get later on.

It is an excellent primer, and since you are already experienced, it should come pretty easy to you. (I was starting from scratch when I got going)

[Thomas Knighton]

I'm in complete agreement with ya Jim ;)

I already had a guide rail system bouncing around in my head shortly after my last post. I should have been working instead...but this is much more fun ;) :D

Tom

[Prashun Patel]

I already had a guide rail system bouncing around in my head shortly after my last post

If you don't want a commercial system, I'd make 2 jigs for the circ saw:

1) 8ft ripping guide
2) Cross cutting box

Update this thread in a year. I bet you will have either bought the EZ Smart guide or a benchtop table saw. By then you will appreciate being able to rip thin stock and do repeated cross cuts on sheet material. ;)

[Thomas Knighton]

Actually, I haven't ruled out the bench top table saw now...so it's not exactly a stretch to figure I'll buy one within a year ;)

Good suggestion on the jigs. Thanks!

Tom

Edited to add: Thanks for the suggestion James! I'll definitely look that one up and add it to the cart as well! Sorry I didn't respond sooner, but apparently I missed your post.

[Marcus Ward]

Here are the chisels from Grizzly:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Japanese-Chisels-10-pc-Set/G7102

Many reviewers say nice things about them, they're on my 'to buy' list. If you want a cheap set of knock around chisels go to harbor freight and buy the 7$ chisel set and after you roll the edges over a few times and resharpen them and cuss a whole bunch you'll forget all about having a set of chisels for beating up. :)

Shawn made a lot of good points, and having a guided circular saw to use outside and make your big cuts might save some headaches, however, a hand saw CAN be accurate and not tedious. A properly sharpened handsaw is an amazing tool. The problem is most people today have never used a properly sharpened saw, nor have they had the time using it to develop the muscle memory required to cut accurately with one. The hardest part about hand tools is you have to spend some time learning how they work and how you work with them. You can't just hit a switch and get a perfect cut or surface, but they're by no means inaccurate or tedious. If you need precise miters you'll need a shooting board to use with your jack plane for trimming cuts perfectly square or angled. Easy to make and use.

http://www.whitemountdesign.com/ShootingBoard.htm

[Thomas Knighton]

Nice! Thanks again Marcus!

Tom

[Larry Laffer]

Make the jigs, especially the straightedge guide! If you'll have trouble storing something 8' long, then buy a commercial guide that breaks down into sections. Get one that clamps from underneath the stock, on on the edge.

A circular saw with dust collection is nice.

You'll definite want a bench with dogs and a vise or two. Make it as long as you can.

I can't live without a cordless drill, even though I have an eggbeater and three bit braces.

Highly accurate measuring and marking tools are key. On the cheap, you can use plastic drafting triangles. Otherwise, a top quality combination square. I have the usual 12" , plus a 6" forged square for the apron. It won't get ruined if you drop it. Steel rules 6", 12", and 24". You can use the Pythagorean 3-4-5 thing to make a very accurate 4' triangle or t-square for crosscutting plywood.

Pencils-I like the fat mechanical model from Woodcraft for marking up lumber for planing. A smaller mechanical one is good for laying out joints, as the size of the mark doesn't change as you work.
Lumber crayons in various colors, plus white.
Marking knifes are good for anywhere you're going to use a chisel.

If you're going to get a benchtop table saw, get one with a riving knife.

I love my Japanese saws. I have a 2 sided Ryoba, a curved joinery saw, a rip tooth dozuki, and flush cutting kugihiki.

You could actually have a half dozen benchtop machines or more mounted to plywood bases and stored conveniently on shelves. When you want to use one, take it down and clamp it to your bench. I'd want a tablesaw with 3/8"x3/4" miter slots, a band saw, , benchtop planer, drill press, and a combination sanding machine or two. Maybe a jointer also, depending on the kind of work I wanted to do. And a mini lathe.

I have a bench I made to use with my saw guide system. The top is a piece of 1/2 ply 30" wide by 60" long. If I made one again, I'd probable use 5/8" or 3/4" ply, but this one isn't too bad, and I wanted it to be lightweight. The bottom has 4 floor flanges for threaded pipe attached at the corners. I can use various lengths from my pipe clamp collection to make different height work tables.
1x3 is attached on edge to the top's perimeter, and across the width every foot. Next to each of those cross pieces is a loose 1x3 that has notches in the appropriate spots, and is held in place with a couple of wood cams. I can loosed the cams and move the extension piece to either edge where there are mating notches, relocking with the cams. The table has mounting holes to hang it on the wall. If I ever get a camera, I'll have to post pics.

[Thomas Knighton]

Folks,

First, thanks for all the tips and tricks for working with a small shop. They are appreciated.

However, this thread is supposed to be about hand tools, not power tools. I haven't ruled anything out one way or the other, I'm just trying to approach this from as many angles as possible and make the best decision for me that I can.

There's just a lot info out about power tools, but not quite as much about hand tools ;)

Thanks again folks!

Tom

[Mark Stutz]

Folks,

.



There's just a lot info out about power tools, but not quite as much about hand tools ;)

Thanks again folks!

Tom

Tom,
I'll add a few semi-random thoughts. Hopefully it will add to things.:D Most of us are not "pure" Neanderthals, and do use combinations of power and hand tools, although I have done projects completely by hand and it is lots of fun. A lot of us, or at least one of us;) come from a power tool background, with hand tool usage evolving at varying rates. It sounds as if you are just getting this hobby, so you sort of have a clean slate.

There is definitely a learning curve with hand tools.Sawing,chopping,paring to a line do take some practice. I would suggest starting off with small projects. Jumping into large pieces of furniture, while learning the skill at the same time can be frustrating...DAMHIKT.:D A small jewelry box, music box, candle box, etc. all require the same skills as a chest of drawers, but on a smaller scale. In that case, your #5 cold easily be used for jointing the edges, and even faces of the smaller pieces, and you wouldn't have the expense of a jointer plane right out of the box, although old wooden jointers are often available rather inexpensively, they too often need to be tuned. Dovetails are dovetails no matter what the scale, and other joinery techniques the same. Grooves for drawer bottoms are fast with a plow plane of some kind, but can be done with nothing more than a backsaw and chisels. This could be one of those choices...a small router table, even a benchtop model would not take up much space...but once you get used to the tranquility of hand tools, it's hard to turn on those screaning demons.;):eek:

Pick a small project...step stool, jewelry box,small clock,etc....get the minimum tools to start, and add as the need arises. There could be whole threads on what tools we've all purchased...thought we just HAD to have...and basically sit unused.

More random thoughts...you don't need a whole set of chisels...nice, but not absolute...1/4, 1/2, 3/4 would get you started. New Japanese saws are usually available more quickly that searching flea markets, etc. but are more expensive, but are ready to go. Personally, I much prefer western saws, but others use Japanese style exclusively.

I'll shut up now.:D

Mark

[Thomas Knighton]

Mark,

Don't shut up! ;)

I figure I'll probably be a hybrid myself after much thinking today (yeah, I still should be working, but I'd rather think about woodworking :D).

I'm really going to take your advice about starting small to heart. I have a box I want to build for my father-in-law to house and protect a beautiful curly maple indian flute he has. He transports it all the time and just has a cloth sleave to protect it, so a box is one of the early projects I have in mind.

The other is a bench for my sister-in-law that would double as a hope chest...probably the biggest thing I've currently got in mind...and probably a bit advanced for me just now ;)

Thanks again!

Tom

[Larry Laffer]

Another nice small project is making your own wooden hand planes. There is a terrific book on the subject by David Finck.

http://www.amazon.com/Making-Mastering-Wood-Planes-Revised/dp/140272022X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1198789869&sr=8-1

[Thomas Knighton]

Ooooooo! Nice! Thanks for the heads up on that one Larry :D

Tom

[Mark Stutz]

Thomas,
I would wager that the two most common power tools in the "neander" shops are a thickness planer and bandsaw. Neither take up much space and are very handy. The planer saves lots of time. I think it is nice to know how to thickness and four square a board, and the skills are applicable to many tasks, but after awhile it is boring and very time consumeing. Even the master cabinet makers in the past had apprentices!:D

That little box sounds great! Dovetails for joinery. Sliding, raised panel for the lid. Small enough to not require a lot of stock, so surfacing and thicknessing could be accomplished with a smoother (3 or 4 size) and a jack (5 or6) and that could double a jointer. I small rip saw for the DTs and maybe the grooves. A couple of chisels, and a mallet. Marking knife and awl for marking. Small square and sliding bevel for layout. Straightedge and winding sticks for stock prep. A block plane would probably come in handy as well, and some system for sharpening. You can probaly find a user grade #45 without all the cutters etc, that can be used for the grooves...probably will even come with narrow, 3/16 or 1/4 cutter. ( Again, not essential, but a lot faster the sawing and chiseling.) Each new project will improve the old skills, and add some new skills, as well as tools. Good luck in your quest.

Mark

[Larry Laffer]

Mark- Nice ideas there. I can't believe I missed the sliding T-bevel. I'd add that he make sure he gets one where the lock doesn't interfere with using the tool. I have the Veritas bevels, plus the smaller of the two Shinwa bevels that are copies of an old Stanley design with the locking mechanism at the bottom.
Also, the recommendation for a method of sharpening was so basic that many overlooked it, myself included.
Start with the scary sharp system, or if money isn't a problem, go with the Worksharp 3000. ($200). It makes sharpening so fast and easy that you'll never put it off.

And a question: Is cost a concern? It might make a difference in some of the answers you'll get. Great thread, BTW.

[Thomas Knighton]

Thanks for all the fantastic advice! I get the feeling that, while this thread was initially for me, it'll become one of those threads that others can make use of in the future. Kind of a warm, tingly feeling :D

Last night, I came home to a MUCH larger refund on something than I was expecting, so I went a little nuts.

I got four of the Japanese chisels from Grizzly (didn't want the whole set just yet), A WWII era #5 Stanley, a mallet and some cabinetmaker's rules from LV, and a Starett combination square. Probably at some point today, I'll pull the trigger on a rip saw and a dovetail saw. It's a late Christmas present to me :D

I still need a lot, obviously, but I'll probably snag a few more things next payday (got to keep the budget master VERY happy ;)). Included in that list is the bevel. Thanks guys for the tips on those!

As for sharpening, I'm looking pretty heavily at Scary Sharp (TM), but what I read said you needed to grind the back of the blades first, then hit the sandpaper (unless I read it wrong). I have a grinder, but it wasn't purchased for this type of work, so it may be a bad thing to use on tools. I was looking at the WorkSharp 2000 instead of the 3000. A bit more affordable for what looks like a scaled down version of the same tool.

On the other hand, I almost picked up Grizzly's wet sharpener last night, but held off until I could get some further info on it.

Now that I think about it, this was more exciting than Christmas :D

A Very Appreciative Tom :D

[Marcus Ward]

Tom, are you on a budget? The worksharp is really nice but there are lots of cheaper ways to get this done than that system. I bought an el cheapo belt sander from harbor freight that I flip upside down to do initial bevel grinds and I just use the 3m microabrasive from lee valley on a piece of glass to do the honing. If you haven't got the whole sharpening thing down I recommend the mk II honing jig from lee valley too.
Regarding the backs of the blades, you don't grind them, you just lap them until they're flat and don't have grooves or machining marks in them.

[Thomas Knighton]

I'm sort of on a budget. Nothing really set down as "don't spend more than this", but I can't go overboard either. The $100 price tag of the WorkSharp 2000 is one of the primary reasons I haven't already jumped on it, but it's not out of reach either.

Rockler has a Scary Sharp honing kit with glass, paper, and guide for $29.99 that I've serious thought about getting. I was just concerned about the need to lap the back, something I know the WorkSharp can do.

Tom

[Mark Stutz]

Tom,
You'll have no problem lapping the chisel backs with sandpaper. A motorized system will be faster, but not necessarily better. I don't have Japanese chisels, but supposedly the hollow backs make flattening much easier and faster. Again, I'm simply reiterating what I've read here, but my take is htat the Japanese chisels handle just a bit differently, but can't speak from experience, so I'll let someone else chime in on this.

A dovetail saw should be filed rip, so for small scale work a small joinery saw/DT saw can be the same, and your second saw can be crosscut. You'll only need a larger rip saw(backsaw) for doing larger tenons or a rip filed panel saw for ripping stock.

Remember, none of this has happened without pictures!:D;)

Mark

[Thomas Knighton]

Tom,
You'll have no problem lapping the chisel backs with sandpaper. A motorized system will be faster, but not necessarily better. I don't have Japanese chisels, but supposedly the hollow backs make flattening much easier and faster. Again, I'm simply reiterating what I've read here, but my take is htat the Japanese chisels handle just a bit differently, but can't speak from experience, so I'll let someone else chime in on this.

Good to know. What about plane blades? Same thing? I'd figure it would be the same, but I've been known to talk out of other body parts before ;)


A dovetail saw should be filed rip, so for small scale work a small joinery saw/DT saw can be the same, and your second saw can be crosscut. You'll only need a larger rip saw(backsaw) for doing larger tenons or a rip filed panel saw for ripping stock.

Good to know! This is all very new to me, and it's cool to learn this stuff :)


Remember, none of this has happened without pictures!:D;)

Mark

I'll definitely be sure to "make it happen" when the stuff gets here. Unfortunately, it needs to be here this afternoon, and that ain't happening...I'm an impatient SOB :D

Oh yeah, snagged a #51 spoke shave earlier today also!

Tom

[Marcus Ward]

Yes, plane blades are the same. You just flatten the back on the same sandpaper you're sharpening on. A dovetail should be filed rip but it's been my (limited) experience that a small, much more finely toothed saw, does a better job than a saw that'll do anything else well.

[Thomas Knighton]

Sweet! Scary Sharp it is then :D

I figure I can give that a shot, and if it doesn't work for me, and can always pick up the WorkSharp later. If it does work for me, I saved about $70 ;)

Tom

[Anchor Sarslow]

If anyone cares, I am working on modifiying a Dozuki saw to tak a full american saw handle. I got the Dozuki from Rockler and am trying to make a handle for it with the pushbutton saw release.

I have a tough time with the straight handles too.

As to all the stuff you are incorporating into a 6 x 8 shop.. I dont see a future for too many power tools to get all the things done you want in making furniture. Except for 1 power saw of some sort and the router, I would go all hand tools.. Work Bench and sharpening system. You can create a sharpeming system out of a piece of 1/4 plate glass and metal working sandpaper.

Here is MY list of things I have put together for my mini indoor shop.. (I live where cold winters prevent me from doing too much outdoors in an unheated shop.. SO I have a woodworking closet for the winter.

I should add that I am using a small shop vac with HEPA for dust control.. especially around the furnace.. :)

2 Rasps, 2 Mill files, 2 different methods of handling scrapers (#80 and a #112), 1 rip saw, 1 crosscut saw, 1 dovetail saw. (I prefer to do handmade dovetails to router made)
I bought Ashley Iles chisels in the following sizes - 1/8, 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 and then bought a cheap set of Marples to get the 3/4 and 1 inch.
I bought Sorby Registered Mortise Chisels in 1/4 and 1/2 inch sizes for mortice work in the most common size woods I use (3/4 and 1.5 inches.) I may have to get beefier ones eventually though..
I am still working on planes but have settled on #4, 5, 7 and need to get a shoulder plane and a #60 1/2 block plane. Because I work with veneers some I am thinking of a #95 as well. For measuring I picked up a couple of veritas marking gauges with the 3 types of marking things. I use a protractor and made my own marking knife to mark dovetails.

I have a 25 foot tape measure, a 24 inch square, a try square.

For drillin I have a Miller falls brace and some kind of breast drill with a set of augers and spoon bits. I also have an egg beater drill for use with my twist drill bits.

I Made a bench for this closet out of 2 6 foot 2 x 12's with 2 x 4 cross braces and made some common length dog holes in it You dont need dogholes every 4 inches or whateer anyone els uses. ANyway, the wall studs are exposed in this room. (it shares space with my furnace and water heater) SO I could attach it with some shoring up of the wall studs and 4 x 4 legs. Very sturdy even for planing. and it leaves room for my storage cabinet i built to hold most of my tools. If I need to do serious sawing I still go out in the cold and use my router and Table saw.

Lastly I have a plethora of clamps available to me as well.. I use mostly the smaller ones in this space.. AM making chairs and small cabinets for now.

I do have the luxury of a much larger shop in the back of my polebarn garage.. But this is my winter home and it is suiting me well for smaller furniture projects for now.

Just another Idea to kick around.

[Thomas Knighton]

Anchor,

Thanks for letting me know about your set-up! Do you have any pics you could share?

Thanks,
Tom

[Larry Laffer]

It will take a lot of time to get nicks out of a blade with sandpaper. You can use your current grinder with a decent wheel. I think a Norton white wheel costs about $25 in 6in size. As long as you don't overheat the blade you'll be fine. Keep a container of water nearby to dip the blade in periodically. Overheating the blade draws out the temper and it won't hold an edge.

[James Mittlefehldt]

Larry with respect I recently bought a Sweetheart jack plane with several nicks in the blade, and removed them in less than five minutes with 40 grit sandpaper. Maybe I don't know my own strength.

[Marcus Ward]

I took some nicks out of a chisel blade night before last with sandpaper. It's not as hard as you think.

[Thomas Knighton]

Well, my earlier comments about size (6'x8') were based on my recollections of the storage rooms. It turns out, my memory sucks. It's only 6'x6', which makes it a good bit tighter squeeze. I had also forgotten about the hot water heater taking up significant space in the back corner. The screened in back porch is 9'x9', and there is the patio which is uncovered and open to anything and everything.

Now, while I know there are options if I really want to use power tools, hand tools will work easier in such a tight space. Luckily the door opens outward, so I don't have to sweat clearance inside the room. Even then, it's going to be a challenge to make everything work in such tight quarters. If only my wife didn't have this silly idea of using the screened porch for family stuff :rolleyes:

Luckily, this thread has me thinking about what all I can do with hand tools. While power tools would be easier, space makes hand tools much more viable. I suspect that power tools will still serve a function for me, they will be limited. Luckily, my only deadline for any of my projects is actually next Christmas, so I figure I've got enough time ;)

Tom

[Anchor Sarslow]

Pictures. I will take some.. Gimme a few minutes.. :)

[Thomas Knighton]

Pictures. I will take some.. Gimme a few minutes.. :)

Cool! They will be much appreciated :D

Tom

[Billy Chambless]

As to all the stuff you are incorporating into a 6 x 8 shop.. I dont see a future for too many power tools to get all the things done you want in making furniture. Except for 1 power saw of some sort and the router, I would go all hand tools.. Work Bench and sharpening system.


That's basically the approach I've decided on, after realising that the huge freestanding shop isn't going to get built any time soon. I'm including a circular saw and a couple of drills, but then, I have a palacious 10x11 room to use. ;)

[Thomas Knighton]

That's basically the approach I've decided on, after realising that the huge freestanding shop isn't going to get built any time soon. I'm including a circular saw and a couple of drills, but then, I have a palacious 10x11 room to use. ;)

Trade ya :D

[Pat Padden]

For the $$ vs quality you really can't beat the Marples blue handled chisels(are they now called Irwin??). If you look closely at what kind of chisels the authors in the magazine articles use it's more often than not the blues. I've been using them for over 10 years and while I sometimes drool over a better set of chisels I always go back to the fact that the Marples do everything that I need. Then I promptly spend the money that was jingling in my pocket on another tool that I don't have.

The most important factor for any chisel is keeping them sharp. Flatten the backs (this really is the most important step in the process in my mind) down to as fine a grit as you can stand, square the end, grind a primary angle, put on a secondary bevel with your stones/sandpaper/whatever moving to your finest grit and you'll be happy.

[James Mittlefehldt]

Wow I must be doing well then, I have a spacious 12 X 21 shop and I am all hand tool, except for the 12 inche bench model drill press, (its a Ryobi does that really count as a power tool?) and a scroll saw that belongs to my wife and they both are gathering dust as we speak, since I have found there is little the drill press that cannot be done with a brace or other hand drill. I have not started the drill press in over a year.

Seriously though the lack of large power tools insures I have a lot of room to wander about in.

If your buying chisels new the Narex ones from Lee VAlley offer good value for the price, and they have metal hoops and beech handles so you can beat on them if you wish. Has anyone bought the now Irwins recently I keep hearing how the quality for all their products is sadly deficient. I have aset of Marples and they are good, not sure if the Irwins are though

[Thomas Knighton]

Earlier in this thread, I mentioned ordering a bunch of tools. I was promptly told that, without pics, it didn't happen. Luckily, folks were willing to take my word for it to start with, so now here's my proof. I apologize in advance for the crappy quality of these pics.

First, we have the obligatory #5 jack plane pic. This one seems to be from WWII, which is pretty dang cool if you ask me. I paid about $30 for this one, and it seems ready to go from what I can tell.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h83/tomcat1066/Antique%20Tools/Tools004.jpg

Next is the Stanley No. 51 spoke shave. I snagged this one the next morning for about $15.00

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h83/tomcat1066/Antique%20Tools/Tools003.jpg

And third, is the vintage Starrett Combination square with centerfinder doo-dad. I snagged this one for about the same thing as the #5. I've already checked, and it's still square. I'm pretty happy about this one, since it's a cool piece.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h83/tomcat1066/Antique%20Tools/Tools001.jpg

So...that's my haul for now. I've still got several items out, and I'll be updating this thread as they get here. I'm very excited to get these tools together and hopefully build some really nice stuff down the road!

Tom

[Billy Chambless]

Nice finds, Thomas.

Of course, that #5 will be lonely, so you'll be looking for a #4... then a #7... then...

[Thomas Knighton]

Nah.

I already had a #5. Unfortunately, they're already pestering me for a #7 ;)

Tom

[Tim McEneany]

As for woodworking books in the library, our library usually has diddly-squat on any subject. I just purchase books...


Hey Tom,
Your local library can borrow books from other libraries. I just started doing this after realizing how much cash I was spending on books. My library usually takes about 3 days to get a book in and they seem to be able to find just about any title I throw at them.

[Jon Toebbe]

Hey Tom,
Your local library can borrow books from other libraries. I just started doing this after realizing how much cash I was spending on books. My library usually takes about 3 days to get a book in and they seem to be able to find just about any title I throw at them.
Same here. Interlibrary loan is amazing. I got my hot little hands on copies of Charles Hayward's collected works (Woodwork Joints, etc.) and learned a lot for free.