Laser purchase

[Kim Haubert]

Had my eyes on an Epilog. But am wondering about a laser in which the sides open up to accommodate a longer piece. Can someone give me a link to their site?

Thanks
Kim

[Jim Watkins]

I think the Pinnicle from Sign Warehouse has front and back doors for just that purpose.

Epilog does not offer that due to their safety rating. I asked my dealer about that specific thing, and that is what he told me.

In the end I decided I could live without the opening doors, so I elected to go with Epilog due to the location of Sign Warehouse being in Texas and the Epilog dealer was 10 minutes from my house.

Good luck.

[Keith Outten]

Xenetech Laser Engravers have the pass-thru capability and I think it may be available on the Trotec machines.

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[Joe Pelonio]

My Epilog does have that capability though it's not encouraged by the, if the sides are removed you have an area about 6"x6" that can be used to pass thru.

[Kim Haubert]

I took a quick look at Pinnicle and Xenetech. Are they all considered good machines?

Thanks
Kim

[Jim Watkins]

You know it is a preferencial thing.

I looked at Sign Warehouse and Epilog before deciding on Epilog. However I had heard, and am not sure on this, but I was told that the Sign Warehouse lasers (pinnicle and accuris) may have their parts made in China and assembled here.

I decided to go with an all American made machine. But you will pay for that too.

You might look at the Univesal and Laser pro machines. I think they are all American made, but the folks who know more than me can corroborate or correct me.

It all depends on what your looking for and what you can afford. One thing to consider would be wattage. I think the general concensus is to get the highest wattage you can afford. It will cut down on the time it takes to do your jobs.

Good luck

[Mike Hood]

I looked at Sign Warehouse and Epilog before deciding on Epilog. However I had heard, and am not sure on this, but I was told that the Sign Warehouse lasers (pinnicle and accuris) may have their parts made in China and assembled here.

I decided to go with an all American made machine. But you will pay for that too.

You might look at the Univesal and Laser pro machines. I think they are all American made, but the folks who know more than me can corroborate or correct me.


Yeah... some of that is incorrect. Sign Warehouse sells LaserPro machines under the Pinnacle name. The company that builds the enclosure itself is located in Taiwan. The tubes are US made Synrad or Coherent models.

The whole "American Made" claim is a farce these days. Most everything comes from a worldwide enterprise system these days... it's the sign of the future. We used to be biased against "Made in Japan junk" but that's definitely changed :)

I have a Pinnacle ZX (Laserpro Explorer II) and lot it AND Sign Warehouse. Great folks all around and the best price for feature set I could find.

[John Volkmar]

Hi Kim, Universal offers the ILS systems, that allow Class IV pass through, via two side doors. They also have gone the extra mile to allow for Interlock controls and an explanation of proper use of a class IV laser system. Finally, the ILS system has a traveling exhaust option so that smoke and debris removal is still effective once the doors have been opened up and the standard exhaust plenum has lost the ability to remove it effectively.

[Jim Watkins]

Thanks for clearing that up Mike. I knew I had some things out of wack, but could not do a few searches from work to confirm.

If the Epilog guys were not right around the corner from me, I would likely have gone with the Pinnicle myself.

[Mike Hood]

Epilog was a close 2nd when I purchased mine, but couldn't a solid quote from them when it came down to the wire. Everything I asked for seemed to be met with negative commentary about their competition rather than factual data. They're good solid machines though.

I just needed those pass-through doors and a large bed and they couldn't get it together in the end.

[Gary Hair]

Everything I asked for seemed to be met with negative commentary about their competition rather than factual data.

Isn't that a great sales technique?

Me - So tell me what's the best thing about your laser

Sales - theirs is a piece of junk

Me - Great, what makes yours better than theirs?

Sales - theirs is a piece of junk

Me - and what features does yours have?

Sales - theirs is a piece of junk

Me - thanks for your time, I'll call you when I'm ready to order!

[John Lewandowski]

This was a factor when I was looking. I got my Epilog mini 24 a few weeks ago and love it. I learned my lesson a year ago on CNC machines. Don't cut corners and go with a reputable dealer that has good support.

I had a hard time finding anything negative about Epilog support and service. In the end I decided that I didn't need to be lasering anything big. If there is a need for something large, I can get away with attaching a plate that is engraved.

John

[Mike Hood]

Isn't that a great sales technique?

That's remarkably close to what I experienced. Now... I know their margins are pretty closely protected secrets, but they're (all of them), are pretty tight-lipped about why I should by one over the other rather than letting the customer make an informed decision.

Here are a couple of points they use against each other:

US made tube vs Chinese tube
Steppers vs Servos
Air Assist value
Servo speed vs stepper speed
Wattage vs speed
Auto-focus as a useful feature
US made chassis vs Taiwanese chassis
Pass-through doors
Laser tube location (upper vs lower)
Vector table vs pin table
Rotary fixture value
Shipping costs
On site training value
Warranty terms
USB vs Parallel ports
Network port (Cat5 jack)
Sinrad vs Coherent tubes
Leasing vs purchasing

I'm a systems engineer by trade, and can tell ya 75% of everything I heard (from ALL vendors) was at best biased... and at worst downright wrong. I built a spreadsheet comparing all the features that separate one vendor from another and used that to make my decision. I started to get pretty disappointed in the end, and finally demanded a quote from each based on the features I felt important to ME. I was pretty clear that I was going to take my money to the salesman with the best estimate based on MY choices, and their bottom line.

Sign Warehouse won my business, and with a few exceptions (OK... I bought an exhaust blower) :) I would do it all the same on the next machine.

I'm very happy with the machine, it's value, the warranty and service-related issues.

It's just too bad they work so hard at discrediting the other guy instead of standing behind their own.

[Scott Shepherd]

Having bought 2 lasers in the last year, one Epilog and one Universal, I can say that I never heard either of the reps bad mouth the other ones. I even asked questions about how their machines compared to others and didn't get any poor remarks. In fact, I got the same from both, mutual respect for their competitors and a willingness to show you the strong points on their lasers.

[Dave Lyda]

We have an epilog legend 32, 40 watt machine and have had excellent performance and no problems. Bought in 2002. We have done canoe paddles and oars by taking the front off and then lasering without any problems or anything bad happening. We would buy from epilog again. I don't know if this helps in your decision making. Good luck.
Dave

[Ryan O'Hara]

For my office I found the usb and ultimately the ethernet port to be the deciding factor in my choice between a ULS 360 and an Epilog Helix with ~45W laser. I need the flexibility the lan cable offers for my shop.

[Mike Hood]

I'm on the Left Coast, but I can assure you they did. The first big blunder was explaining to me that servos we're older technology... and the Pinnacle was a knock off of an Accuris laser and made in China.

He even challenged me to ask Sign Warehouse's rep directly what type of steppers they use on their "Laserpro Clones".

In reality... a Pinnacle IS a LaserPro machine... steppers ARE faster and more accurate than most servos... and while they do sell both Accuris and Pinnacle machines... they are two different systems entirely... The Pinnacle ZX is an Explorer II with DC Servos.

But really the final straw was him essentially telling me I couldn't get the machine as I was quoted... that there was a bait and switch afoot or something. I finally asked him to fax`me his best quote. It was far over what I had in hand.

It's not a statement against all brands... just one salesman in Arizona... :)

[Mike Null]

[QUOTE=Mike Hood;729210]
steppers ARE faster and more accurate than most servos...

Steppers are not faster and more accurate than servos. The opposite is true but would not deter me from buying one or the other. I was perfectly happy with my ULS with steppers and I'm perfectly happy with my Trotec with servos.

I'm beginning my 10th year of engraving for a living and in terms of results I don't see any difference. I bought the Trotec largely because of the 140 ips raster speed.

In my time I can count on one hand the number of times I needed a pass through machine.

[Bill Cunningham]

My Epilog does have that capability though it's not encouraged by the, if the sides are removed you have an area about 6"x6" that can be used to pass thru.

I had this posted in another thread.. But it applies here as well..


My Epilog TT table is 12 x 24, (rarely needed anything larger)but the odd time something long comes in.. The side of the TT comes off, and there is a hole you can stick things through, like a baseball bat, or paddle.. I took the side off the first time and thought 'hey' this is silly.. So I took it into the workshop and cut a hole in the side panel the same size as the hole in the side of the machine, when the panel is off. Now, because the TT cools by pulling air over the tube at the front, a hole in the side will reduce the airflow, and the cooling. The panel itself, is aluminum, so I used double sided tape to tape a 1 inch wide steel strip around the parameter and cut a piece of plastic for a cover, lined with sign magnetic to hold it in place when the hole is not being used... Now when I'm doing a paddle, I can half cover the opening with the cover, and a few more pieces of magnetic finish off most the opening, allowing the air to flow through the front normally, while the paddle or other long object sticks out the side.. By the way, if you have a TT and are going to do this, you can ONLY do it on the left side, the hole on the right side, is lower than the focus depth of the table and the side track hits the object before it gets to the focus depth.. __________________

[Scott Shepherd]

Mike Hood, sorry, didn't mean to suggest that what you said never happened. I believe every word you said. Hope you didn't think I was questioning you, because I wasn't.

[Bob Cole]

I was real disappointed that ULS didn't offer a native Ethernet port so I went out and purchased a $30 print server (can turn most USB / LPT printers to Ethernet). It works very well.

It depends on the drivers the laser system uses whether a print server like this will work or not.

[Scott Shepherd]

I asked about the Ethernet port on the ULS with the new PLS system and it wasn't available. I was disappointed because of my experiences with the Epilog, but I've not had a single problem with the USB port on the ULS and I had many problems with it on the Epilog and had to finally switch to ethernet just to keep from having to reboot the machine over and over and over.

For me, the job control software is 100 times more important than the connection. I saw advice given recently for someone to write down every setting and keep a log of all the jobs to refer back to. Why? It's in the job control software. Don't bash USB ports to the laser if they don't work right. They don't work right because the driver isn't written correctly, not because it's a faulty technology. I have USB drives hooked to my computers all the time and they never fail or give errors. USB is used on just about everything now. Printers, GPS devices, portable hard drives, cell phones, digital cameras, yet they all seem to communicate without having to reboot every few tries and they seem to get the data over correctly without all the problems. Folks, it's not a USB problem it's a driver problem.

If there are problems with it, hold the people who write the drivers accountable and don't except excuses.

[Kim Haubert]

Thx John. I did talk to a Universal rep and am happy to find out there is a dealer just as close as the Epilog dealer. But...he was telling me what I want is about 30K. Too steep for me. I do have an appt. with the local dealer Monday.

Kim