Asbestos removal in NJ goes bad, D&S Abatement

[jason lambert]

I hired D&S Abatement to come in and remove Asbestos that was on the main heating duct running through the basement above a dropped celing when I bought my new house. I have been running wiring for days and noticed alot of dust up there around the duct. Then today around the cornor I noticed all the asbestos was not removed it was partially scraped off and left laying and some still on the duct. It is apparent these guys just rushed in and out and did a half ass job. Unfortinally I have probably been inhaling this stuff for days.

Who can i cantact to report these guys and is there anything I can do at this point?

[Fred Voorhees]

Jason, I am a member of the International Association of Insulators and Allied Workers and our union does do asbestos abatement work in NJ. D&S could be a fly by night outfit. The removers are a seperate entity of our union and personally, I don't do the work so I am not familiar with whether D&S are a reputable contractor or not. Doesn't sound as if they are. If you would like, I can contact my local union hall and find out any avenues that you can go with to help with your problem.

[Al Willits]

Better Business bureau and the states Attorney General's office would be a start.

Lots of fly by nights out there, all praying on the asbestos panic that's being spread, not good stuff, but unfortunately crooks are making a ton of money off peoples fears.

Al

[Rick Gifford]

OSHA. These folks are under the guidelines set forth by OSHA as asbestos removers.

Make a phone call and explain what has happened. They might find themselves with a nice fine!

Contact your doctor asap. Get this documented. If you have complications years later and can track it back to this, you will have that recourse available to you.

Takes years for asbestos to show its damage on you. This is serious. Quite frankly a call to your lawyer wouldn't be out of line.

You need to make sure your covered if anything goes bad from this.

Hope you take plenty of photos.

Call those people up. Document everything!

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

two points:
1.) Asbestos in not nearly so dangerous as the popular media says. People who got sick form it didn't have mere casual exposure. they worked in factories and similar places where there was asbestos in the air all the time.

There may be illnesses from low levels of exposure but they are not the norm.
So you are most likely OK. Just stop stirring it up. However the advice about documenting it and seeing a DR is good and I suggest you take it. If you have family members in the building they too should document it and see a physician.


2.) Asbestos comes in two flavors: (a) water wettable and (b) oil wettable. The guys I know who do abatement use Antifreeze as the wetting agent for both. They put it in a gallon sprayer and hose the stuff down and that prevents dust from getting airborne then they clean it up. SO if you are stuck for a clean up solution you can DIY.

The NJ EPA will have issued these guys a license. Call them.

Also the NJ Gateway here:
http://www.nj.gov/treasury/revenue/bestatus.htm
will let you investigate the status of the company such as: Who its incorporators and owners are and what addresses and other names it's used.
Cost is $5.00


D&S seems to be a legit company
They put in a bid to do Madison NJ's abatement contract
http://www.rosenet.org/gov/purchasing_personnel/bid_notices/unofficial%20bid%20results/2007%20Unofficial%20Bid%20Results/2007%20Asbestos%20Abatement%20Electric%20Utility%2 0Website%20Bid%20Record%2010-07.htm

And they are listed as a service provider in various other business web sites such as Real Estate companies.
http://www.jillskibinsky.com/custom2.shtml

They absolutely HAD to have a permit So there's a local record in you building department code enforcement office. Failure to have obtained a permit is rather serious.


ERGO I'm guessing you can solve this with a phone call to D&S. Tell 'em you had a chat with your lawyer and he suggested you try talking to them first. And it's true you did talk to a lawyer 'cause I am a NJ lawyer.

As an aside if this job cost more than $500.00 it had to be in writing and if their agreement Failed to have some very specific language in it about you being able to cancel the contract in 3 business days they are really screwed. You lawyer can get his Attorney Fees for the time he spends litigating on that one issue out of their hides. And it's a slam dunk cause it's right there in the statute.

And the Statute also provides that you can most probably recover Treble damages.
If these exact words are not on the written Agreement (Home improvement contract) they used they may be in trouble on that alone pursuant to N.J.S.A. 56:8-151(3):
******************************

"NOTICE TO CONSUMER

YOU MAY CANCEL THIS CONTRACT AT ANY TIME BEFORE MIDNIGHT OF THE THIRD BUSINESS DAY AFTER RECEIVING A COPY OF THIS CONTRACT. IF YOU WISH TO CANCEL THIS CONTRACT, YOU MUST EITHER:

1. SEND A SIGNED AND DATED WRITTEN NOTICE OF CANCELLATION BY REGISTERED OR CERTIFIED MAIL, RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED; OR

2. PERSONALLY DELIVER A SIGNED AND DATED WRITTEN NOTICE OF CANCELLATION TO:
[company name address & telephone]


(Name of Contractor)

(Address of Contractor)

(Phone Number of Contractor)

If you cancel this contract within the three-day period, you are entitled to a full refund of your money. Refunds must be made within 30 days of the contractor's receipt of the cancellation notice."



*****************************



Unfortunately too many of my NJ contractor clients have convinced themselves that if they put this - required - language in their contracts that their customers will all run away. So they don't - they don't no matter how seriously I lay out the risk of harm they face if they get sued by a smart lawyer.

Well at any rate if they failed to use the language or get a permit or fulfill all the requirements the NJ EPA has for them they should quite reasonably be more than happy to come back and fix the problem.
So stay calm and lay out the facts and find out if they got a permit and have a license and look at the agreement you signed. Chances are they screw up somewhere.

[jason lambert]

Yes it was a $1800 job. I had a contract and have a certificate saying the basement was clear and the air was tested and the job was done. I believe they also pulled a permit. Cliff I believe you the risk is limited, but we did pay good money to have it removed and all they did in the one area is made it flakey and worse there are some jobs you can do half ass but when it comes to something like this and the and health issues permits etc, it should be done right especially for $1800 for a 15' duct. I could of removed and replaced the whole duct for cheaper, but wanted it done right. Heck I spend several grand for saw dust collection to protect my lungs, and this is 10000 more dangeress.

Right off the bad we had issues with this company they would not tell me what they where going to do in the house and the contract was vague. It was a situation because I was buying the house and I was not the owner for another day or two even though the previous owner called them several times and told them to talk to me, they refused. They also damaged the heck out of the room with so many holes and staple marks we had to have everything filled and the whole room repainted. Now I look up and the job isn't even done right!

I still can't find a contact to report these people two, I did fill out some web forms maybe it will got to the right person.

I will contact my layer I have one on retainer, and call my doctor so this will be documented.

Thanks for all the advice

[Chris Padilla]

I go along with what Cliff said: for YOU, jason, I wouldn't freak out about inhaling it for "just a few days". It is folks who worked around it day in and day out that had problems and it was years and years of it.

However, to the point of paying for work not done, absolutely...go after them.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I will contact my layer I have one on retainer, and call my doctor so this will be documented.


Good. NJ has an NJDEPA they may have an interest.
http://www.state.nj.us/dep/

The Code enforcement people will have had an obligation to inspect it before closing the permit.

There is also the office of the Attorney General.
http://www.nj.gov/lps/index.html

Here is an interesting question: Is the dust you found. Asbestos, or might it be something else that got there after they were out?

Your last post makes a statement that may change things altogether ( I may have missed it in your first post). Apparently ( If I understand you correctly) you didn't hire the contractor and they don't have contractual privity with you. The seller has privity with you - AND - the contractor.

Of course if the agreement has a transferrable warranty this may be different. But I sort of doubt that is the case.

The fact that you are not the one who hired the contractor may be fatal to any claim you might hope to have against them.

Your claim may be more properly laid at the door of the people who sold the house to you. You would sue them for failure to disclose the poorly performed work among other things. They in turn would implead the contractor.
This is because the seller has privity with the contractor.

The duties owed flow from the contractor to the person who hired them. When you bought the house you took it with whatever warranties and defects the seller extended to you. The contractor and you are unrelated.

[jason lambert]

Yes that is the case the contractor and myself are unrelated I need to go after the sellers. The job was just not done right you can even see from the picture they scraped the area proving they can reach but then didn't even seal it like the rest of the job. Just sloppy work!

[John Zee]

Yikes. I just had a bid on a commercial building to scrape the ceilings here in CA. Roughly 5200 sq feet. Just under $20,000. The fines involved could bankrupt anybody that violated the laws. It sounds like NJ is right up there. If someone from the local building department was supposed to sign off on the job the city has exposure for this.

Good luck, keep this thread updated if you would. You have some work instore for 2008.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Yes that is the case the contractor and myself are unrelated I need to go after the sellers. The job was just not done right you can even see from the picture they scraped the area proving they can reach but then didn't even seal it like the rest of the job. Just sloppy work!

Don't waste any time. Move quickly and file that suit.

What'll happen is the seller will have to defend. In doing so their lawyer will invoke third party interpleader practice bringing the contractor in as a third party defendant saying that if the sellers owe you any damages then it's because of the contractor and he's gotta pay them.

It's a PITA but it's how it works.