Panel raising with a couple of planes.

[Jake Darvall]

Being trying to think up easier ways of raising more interesting panels by hand than your typical inclined type. Lying in bed last night I got this idea. Gave it a go this afternoon and took some photos.

Using 2 planes. A 289 and a 55 (a 45 would work too). On a bit of scrap for the experiment.

crossgrain cuts first. 289.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/1-7.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/2-6.jpg

From here I'm going to put the profile straight into the end grain with the 55 body and a fence. Good because most end grain profile cuts are naturally clean cutting . Bit like a bench plane being run across an endgrain edge at an angle.

Normally I clamp on a tearout board. Found it easier lately to just scribe a line to contain any breakout in the waste portion.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/3-6.jpg


single skate with my profiled blade there. Didn't use the main depth stop there (finger on it)
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/4-6.jpg


Instead I'm using a lefthand depth stop I've built into a steel face I've attached to the fence. Usual things that make it work..... big fence face and left hand depth stop. Very stable cut, even though its running on one skate. Here's that depth stop.

The maximum depth I've got is basically the distance from the bottom of the skate to the fence rods. about 33mm. The depth stop is pretty closely set to that here.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/5-4.jpg


The skate runs right on the edge of the rebate.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/6-4.jpg

midway through the cut.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/7-3.jpg

depthed out here.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/9-3.jpg

cross grain done. I'd do the other crossgrain cut next for a panel. But this is just an experiment. So, I'll do with grain now.

rebate with same 289 setting.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/11-1.jpg

Then plane the profile in. A problem here. If I'd planed it better I should have raised the panel on the other side. Because as I have it here, I'm going against grain on both edges with the 55, as you can see here by the grain and the tear.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/12-1.jpg

Annoying really, because it means I have to lighten up the cut so the shavings come out almost powder like to remove the tear. If I'd planned it properly I wouldn't need to change settings. Managed to clean up this time. But other times haven't been so successful with fiercer grain.

[Jake Darvall]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/13-1.jpg

What I do from here to clean up those nicker lines is raise the nicker on the 289 and take it a bit deeper to clear the lines. So the depth stops should be set taking that into account.

Anyway, I put this together because I think its quite a reliable way of raising many kinds of profiles. All you need do is sharpen a blade to the profile you need, and an old beatup 45 would do and its fence. Don't have to have a dedicated woodie plane for each profile. Or have to bother with the complications of its sharpening. The easiest way by hand I know to do profiles like these.

[Thomas Knighton]

OK, now I know I need to find an old 45. Very timely, since I'm new to woodworking and would like to use hand tools a fair amount. Not 10 minutes ago, I was wondering how to do this without using a router.

Guess you answered my question ;)

Tom

[Jim Becker]

Jake, great pictorial and a really nice profile, too! Thanks and happy holidays!

[Zahid Naqvi]

Nice work and thanks for the tutorial.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Jake,

Real nice job and tutorial. Really appreciate a post like this that goes beyond the typical plane, chisel of saw rehab.

T.Z.

[Dan Racette]

Jake, that skew blade of the 289 make the shavings of the cross grain look like ribbons of silk. Beautiful demos. Make sure you keep an operational camera around at all times, your posts are great edutainment, and I for one, appreciate them.

Dan

[Jake Darvall]

My pleasure. just thrilled that the idea worked. Been a while. last few were duds.

If interested you can do the above without the 289. Just by droping in the 45 alone, straight down forming the rebate. With a coarse cut most of the way its ok, then fine up, and no nicker lines left that way, so less cleanup. But far more wear to your profiled blade that way, which is harder to sharpen than the 289. I suppose it depends what sort of profile your after. and what tools you've got. and what you feel comfortable with.

The beauty of the 45 used this way, is you can cleanly impose a profile on any edge you like. Not just panels. And you don't need to have clever skewed beds, close mouths etc etc. Shavings always clear really nicely, since theres really no mouth at all. Never any shaving jams

Important to read the grain in advance though I think, like I failed to do above. And be aware of how coarse your cut is at all times. Keeping it coarse to drop to near depth as fast as possible to save wear to your blade(even if your getting tear on the way). but then Fining up the shaving when your close, to ensure a clean finish.

anyway, Merry Christmas too everyone.

[Jake Darvall]

Thought I'd try and have a bit of a go on blue gum.. I'm happy with it.

[Thomas Knighton]

Looks good Jake! I'm jealous :D

Re-reading your original post, I had a Jack Nicholson moment, ala Batman..."Where does he get those wonderful toys" :D

I have got to find me a 289 and a 55 or 45!

Tom

[Jake Darvall]

Re-reading your original post, I had a Jack Nicholson moment, ala Batman..."Where does he get those wonderful toys" :D


:D well. Don't look too closely at them. Their not that flash. BUT, they work ! ;) (most of the time)

I heard there's a new 289 version coming out of Lie neilson soon.

Mine are just beatup ones off ebay and flea markets.

[Thomas Knighton]

Yeah, that means they're cooler than Lie Nielson's stuff...they got character :D

Tom

[Pam Niedermayer]

Sure, Thomas, they have character, but it's not necessarily good character. LN's and LV's may be bland, may always work out of the box, may always do the job; but that's character, too.....good character. :)

Pam, who uses mostly Japanese planes, so take this for what it's worth

[Jake Darvall]

Sure, Thomas, they have character, but it's not necessarily good character. LN's and LV's may be bland, may always work out of the box, may always do the job; but that's character, too.....good character. :)



Good character that cost buckets of money Pam ! ;)

Character that gets stolen first too. At work my beatup planes in their beat up tool box, never get touched when somebody lifts something. Yet they work essentially as well as the pricey ones.

And usually the blokes that own the pricey ones arn't as good at using them as those with the second hand stuff, because they haven't been forced to make them work. A process that develops your skills quicker IMO.

But, I know what your saying. Its nice to have a tool that works well.

[Mike Cutler]

And usually the blokes that own the pricey ones arn't as good at using them as those with the second hand stuff, because they haven't been forced to make them work. A process that develops your skills quicker IMO.




I like this sentence.:D.

I have a bunch of LN's, but rehabbing my flea market specials taught me how a plane really works. The operator(me) is another question altogether though.
Nice thought, and nice work.

[Pam Niedermayer]

...Yet they work essentially as well as the pricey ones.

And usually the blokes that own the pricey ones arn't as good at using them as those with the second hand stuff, because they haven't been forced to make them work. A process that develops your skills quicker IMO.

But, I know what your saying. Its nice to have a tool that works well.

I learned to hate old Stanleys and Records, so much so that I went to mostly woodies. Since moving to wood, my world is wonderful. I do have a few LN/LV special use planes, but that's about it. The first metal plane I got that worked properly was the LN LA jack, so even though I don't really need it anymore, all its functions are now done by woodies, I hang onto it, seems I can't make myself sell it.

So you're right and wrong. I couldn't get the old metal junk to work properly; but I'm not sure how much of it was my fault exactly, given how easy it's been to pick up old or new woodies and do superior work.

Pam

[Jake Darvall]

I know what you mean. its not really whose right or wrong eh. As long as everyone actively finds whats right for them I suppose.

I'm not too impressed with the blades of regular bench metal planes either to be honest. Blades too thin. I'm only really happy with the ones I've modified to hold old wooden blades. The normal blades feel more chattery to use. So maybe its worth getting at least one good quality LN bench plane or whatever. Thats a lot of money though.

I have enjoyed woodies too. The only things that bother me about them is their weight. I like a heavy plane all lubed up. I can get more work done with a heavy plane. And also wooodies arn't as easy to adjust. Easy enough dropping the blade just right, but I like to be able to withdraw the blade fractionally ever so often as well. And I find that tricky with hammer taps. For me that usually means dismantling and starting over. Turning a knob to do that is far easier I feel.

Also I like the lower nature of a metal plane. Like it when my hands are closer to the work, and also the shaving clearence is generally always better in a steel plane. IMO (but there not huge points I know. Just my preferences)

Woodie moulding planes are lovely to use once you get them going, but they have major problems too that tend to keep them on the shelf I think. Sharpening problems. Warp problems. Thats why I like combination planes. And I can experiment with them too, which is up my alley.

[Pam Niedermayer]

...So maybe its worth getting at least one good quality LN bench plane or whatever. Thats a lot of money though.

I have enjoyed woodies too. The only things that bother me about them is their weight. I like a heavy plane all lubed up. I can get more work done with a heavy plane. And also wooodies arn't as easy to adjust. Easy enough dropping the blade just right, but I like to be able to withdraw the blade fractionally ever so often as well. And I find that tricky with hammer taps. For me that usually means dismantling and starting over. Turning a knob to do that is far easier I feel.

Also I like the lower nature of a metal plane. Like it when my hands are closer to the work, and also the shaving clearence is generally always better in a steel plane. ...

Yes, expensive, sort of. I wasted much more than the cost of that plane futzing around with old junk, felt really stupid after the fact.

I prefer lighter planes, feel they're more responsive, provide me with more feedback than heavy planes. Agree that woodies are marginally more difficult to adjust; but with the better blades there is more room for adjustment. For example, I played around with one of the junkers to see how much room I had, found that it was very little.

I also like higher planes for jointing, easier to feel when they're horizontal. Don't even know what shaving clearance is. You mean the wider mouth in the sole?

Pam

[Jake Darvall]

I also like higher planes for jointing, easier to feel when they're horizontal. Don't even know what shaving clearance is. You mean the wider mouth in the sole?

Pam

I don't understand why its easier to feel when they're horizontal....but just developed different styles I suppose.

for shaving clearence, I just meant that the shavings are less likely to jam up. Just because metal planes don't require as much meat around the mouth...uno.

Just look at an old stanley and how much space there is on the top side of the plane. Then look an old wooden jack. More of a cave. Some of the old moulding planes have clearance problems too I've noticed.

I'm sorry to disagree, but I think a woodie is far slower to adjust than a metal version. Their blades just can't be withdrawn anywhere near as quickly in a consistant manner. And yes, I've had much practise with woodies as well. Its not just marginal IMO, its a big difference. Just got to turn a wheel a touch without changing your stance or your grip. And still be confident of what I'm going to get next pass of the plane.

I suppose a way out of that with woodies, is to work two woodie planes simultaneously. One set coarse, and one fine. So you don't have to fiddle with settings much as you go.