Dado in the RAS

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Who likes to do that?

I don't have a RAS but because it's a climb cut it seems dicey to me.

[Steve Leverich]

Did it a few times back in the '70's 'cause that was the only stationary saw I had at the time (Craftsman 12" "Commercial", still have it) - I found that you either "stiff-armed" very vigorously (not a lotta fun), used a push-cut (better clamp the work to the table and go slow) and/or made several shallow cuts.

Wouldn't recommend it if you have a TS. If not, maybe a guided skill saw to score and a router to finish... Steve

[Chris Barnett]

First and only wobble dado I made on my 3 hp RAS was as a climb cut. It was the last time I used the dado. It threw a 2x4 through my garage door. I was wrong; it should not have been a climb cut, but rotating the other way. The garage door was closed. Edit: yes, rip cut....or tried to anyway. It existed to my left as I was facing the machine. The rollup (probably a wood sub) door was maybe 10 ft away. And yes I was inexperienced enough to do it. Not all of us are fortunate to have a mentor, any mentor, or a RAS.

[Steve Leverich]

Chris, I'm confused - was that a rip cut? (Also not fun on a RAS)

Otherwise I don't see how you'd have thrown the board, I'd think it would have stalled the saw or jumped over the board if it were a crosscut :confused: Steve

[Jim O'Dell]

I "ripped" dados on my old RAS, but when I did, I used the anti-kickback pawls, and had the nose of the blade shroud down against the wood to keep it from lifting. I never felt afraid of it doing it that way.

Now, cross cut dados using the RAS slide arm? Yeah, that was scarey. Not something I would enjoy doing again, even with the nose of the guard helping to hold the wood down. Jim.

[Louis Brandt]

Hello,
I’m confused. I’ll bet that I’ve read a hundred postings on how “dangerous” the RAS is, but I don’t see it. I have a 1960’s Craftsman RAS (one of the ones made by Emerson), that’s built like a tank, and I have never, ever had the saw “climb” at me. When I first got the saw about 25 years ago (I bought it used), I had never used any power saw before (RAS, table saw, miter saw, etc.), so I was certainly not an expert with it. I didn’t even know that blades were made with positive or negative hook angles, and to this day I’ve never paid any attention to what hook angle blade that I use on it.
I’ve used it for crosscutting and dadoing more times than I can count over the years, and as much of an amateur that I am, I’ve never even come close to an accident with it. True, I don’t use it for ripping, but for crosscutting or cutting dados, it’s perfect. It’s perfectly balanced and perfectly level on its steel support cabinet, and when I pull it through for a cut or dado, it stops moving toward me when I tell it to stop. It never climbs.
Am I just an expert with a RAS, are many people just too careless or did I just happen to buy the only good RAS ever made?
Louis

[scottj owen]

I sometimes use the radial arm saw for dados, when using a radial arm saw you are left with a thickness of material that is always constant. We build a lot of cabinets with birch plyd and it is amazing on how much variance there is in thickness from one sheet to another. On a long run of cabinets it is critical that each cabinet is accurate. I don't use the radial arm saw much anymore , I prefer an overhead router which also leaves you with a constant remaining thickness. Thanks.

[Steve Leverich]

Jim, I did all that when ripping anything with my RAS but never enjoyed the process. Only way I found for crosscut dado that felt safe was to do a push cut AFTER clamping both front edges of the work to the table, and going S-L-O-W... Steve

[Steve Leverich]

Louis, I've had mine since '71 or so and in that time I've had a couple of unintentional "climbs" - both times I was pushing too hard trying to get more done than I had time for, building a bunch of crates for overseas shipment of our furniture. Normally/carefully, I've had no probs either.

Ripping - with a TS, the blade tends to pull the wood DOWN and into the table, so there isn't quite as much tendency to throw the piece - but it can still happen. The RAS, with overhead blade, tends to LIFT the piece slightly and would probably have slightly more tendency to throw pieces back at you.

I never had a DC on mine so rips got pretty messy and "in yer face", which I don't like.

As with any tool, following safety rules and thinking BEFORE you cut will go a long way toward a happier experience - one CARDINAL rule with the RAS is to NEVER cross your arms - if you're holding the board with your left hand, it better be on the LEFT side of the blade (and vice versa)

I also like the fact that you get constant "remaining depth" with the RAS for dadoes... Steve

[Ed Jolin]

Crosscut dado's was a main reason for getting my RAS over a SCMS. I have found it incredibly useful and wish I'd had it sooner. For me, I feel much safer with the material stationary, and moving the blade over it. I've used my tablesaw for crosscut dados in casework before and it felt quite awkward and unwieldy. The same cut on my RAS feels much safer since I don't have to worry about long boards getting out of line and leveraging against the blade since they're not moving.

That said, I do not use my saw for ripping, and I wouldn't use the RAS to rip dados; that's an operation that is reserved for my tablesaw.

I am not an expert, but a good RAS should be quite stout, with little to no flex, and needs to be well tuned. The more it flexes, the more likely it will try to do something it shouldn't. e.g. if the arm has any upward play/flex, the opportunity for the blade to catch and climb is more likely.

As for push/pulling through the cut, I recommend following your manufacturers instructions; I believe typically you pull the RAS, and push a SCMS. For me, I was taught to always pull; never push.

btw, for a cool video of how a well tuned RAS can crosscut, do a search for "croscutting dewalt" on youtube. Notice he's not even holding the carriage handle - I'd read somewhere that he was using finger pressure only on the end of the antikickback pawls.

-ed

[Fred Voorhees]

I've done it. Not that big of a deal. Yes, I am careful because of the orientation, but caution goes a long way.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I’m confused. I’ll bet that I’ve read a hundred postings on how “dangerous” the RAS is, but I don’t see it.

Well not lets see if there is a good reason for this.


I have a 1960’s Craftsman RAS (one of the ones made by Emerson), that’s built like a tank, and I have never, ever had the saw “climb” at me.

Yup that makes sense. The older saws were made with tons of cast iron in em and the pole was bloody heavy too. However, with Marketing departments ordering engineers about like 2-dollar hookers, machinery has gotten cheesier and cheesier.



Am I just an expert with a RAS, are many people just too careless or did I just happen to buy the only good RAS ever made?
Louis

Dunno, but I can tell you for sure that your older saw is likely lots heavier than what you can get today.

Prolly best not to sell it.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Crosscut dado's was a main reason for getting my RAS over a SCMS. I have found it incredibly useful and wish I'd had it sooner. For me, I feel much safer with the material stationary, and moving the blade over it. I've used my tablesaw for crosscut dados in casework before and it felt quite awkward and unwieldy. The same cut on my RAS feels much safer since I don't have to worry about long boards getting out of line and leveraging against the blade since they're not moving.

WOW. If ever there was a good argument for the notion that: "You do best what you learned to do early" That may be it. 'Cause I'm a table saw person when it comes to dados and I have always regarded the RAS as a somewhat scary beast.

Once I got to use a really old one. It was a Delta heavy beast prolly weighed a ton. It was smooth, rock solid, powerful and worked great.

[Richard Dragin]

There has to be more misinformation about the RAS than any other tool on these forums. Dado cuts on a RAS are a piece of cake and one of the better uses for the tool. Unless you are set up incorrectly there is no way you could throw a piece during a dado cut, the blade is pushing the work into the fence.

My RAS is more useful and accurate than any CMS and I have used a ton of CMS's.

[Wade Lippman]

I'm with Ed; RAS are wonderful for dados. Not much good for anything else, but wonderful for dados.

You have to do them very very slowly, or they will climb; but with care it is not an issue.

[Rick Williams]

Have had a radial arm saw now for 25+ years. Have cut 100's of dados with no problem using a wooble dado, an Excaliber and now a Freud SD-508. Used mostly for rough crosscuts. RAS is NOT MEANT to have the blade pushed through the wood from front of table back towards the fence. As others have said, no way that a dado is going to pick up the wood and throw it across the garage unless you have the head turned for a rip cut. If you're dumb enough to do that you might want to have another look at your manual or read a good book on using the RAS. Like any tool, they are dangerous if you don't know how to operate them.

[Dennis Hatchett]

I have my very old delta rockwell super 90, a great old saw that I picked up for next to nothing, and I use it almost exclusively for dados and half-lap joints or anything similar where I plow out a lot of material quickly. I have it set up with my old systematic dado set and it works great.

But even with my big old heavy saw, caution is definitely warranted. Even after years of doing dados I occasionally sense it trying to get away from me and climb forward. Good foot positioning that gives you a solid base is critical so that your arm isn't absorbing all the energy. It's kinda like riding a green horse. You can have a nice ride going but all of a sudden something sets it off. Just be prepared and keep your free hand away from the blade and go sloooowww. After you get the feel for your saw, it should be a fairly safe operation.

[Rick Levine]

I got my first RAS this year, a new Delta 12", and after verifying all the settings using Jon Eakes book on the subject and have had none of the "problems" people have talked about. I especially like the fact that I can do dados on the saw and cut long boards to size.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a75/ricklevine/ras_stop.jpg

[Rick Williams]

Rick:

Really like your set-up. particularly the way you have the fences for your miter saw set up with the track for adjustment. I've got a very similiar setup based on Nahm's caBinets but did not like the lack of adjustability on the fence's for my sliding mitersaw. Thanks for posting the pics!

[fred woltersdorf]

i bought a 10" craftsman ras in 1965, it was the only power tool that i used since shop class in hs about 4 yrs prior. the first project i built was a hope chest for my fiance. after we got married and bought a house i built a full set of kitchen cabinets only using that saw for all cuts. all the bottoms were set in dado's that i cut on that saw.

would i do it over again today that way, heck no, but i still have that saw for crosscuts and dado's. it has served me well for 42 yrs and i think it cost around $175 back then.