Original Simple Green Bad for Carbide

[Pat Germain]

I've seen a few discussions recently about cleaning saw blades. There are a lot of solutions and opinions on this and I don't mean to pooh-pooh any of them. After all, I'm just a newbie and learning myself. Yet, I read something about this today which I found interesting.

A coworker loaned me some of his Shop Notes to review. Vol. 16 Issue 96 has a short article about blade cleaners. One of the cleaners was "Extreme Simple Green". This stuff is designed for cleaning aircraft. Therefore, it won't hurt metal parts. It worked very well in the review, but it's somewhat expensive. There's also a small note stating the following:

"While the original Simple Green is an effective cleaner, the manufacturer warns that it should not be used to soak carbide-tipped blades or bits. The contents of the cleaner will cause the carbide to leach from the metal."

I know a lot of folks use Simple Green to clean blades. So, if you're using the original formula, you might want to consider switching to Extreme Simple Green.

I know some folks also use oven cleaner. The Shop Notes article specifically mentioned using oven cleaner is a bad idea because, "The lye breaks down the cobalt binders used to hold the carbide together".

Keep in mind, this isn't my opinion, but rather claims from the Simple Green manufacturer and the author of the article. Take it for what it is and use your best judgement.

[Eddie Darby]

I've had good success with baking soda. Simple and cheap, readily available.

[Jesse Cloud]

I think the operative word here is "soak". I never soak my blades in Simple Green, just spritz it on and give the blade a quick once over with a brass brush, then rinse and dry.

[Gary Keedwell]

I think the operative word here is "soak". I never soak my blades in Simple Green, just spritz it on and give the blade a quick once over with a brass brush, then rinse and dry.
You beat me to the punch, Jesse. Seems alot of woodworkers would put their blade in a bucket of that stuff and leave it in there overnite and longer. If you only let it soak for a few minutes...it should be fine.
I spray mine with Formula 409 and scrub with toothbrush and it is as clean as new.

Gary

[Pat Germain]

I've had good success with baking soda. Simple and cheap, readily available.

As a matter of fact, baking soda was also tested in the Shop Notes article. Just as you said, Eddie, it worked great and it's very economical. The only downside was it takes longer than the stronger cleaners.

[Dan Barr]

get some CMT blade and bit cleaner.

$11.90 at woodcraft, works in 5 minutes. spray it on, wait 5 minutes, wipe it off. only takes a few squirts to clean pretty much anything.

non-toxic and biodegradable also.

v/r

dan

[Pat Germain]

Dan, what's with the "Very Respectfully"? Methinks you may be drinking a little too much of the Air Force Kool-Aid. ;)

As I recall from the article, the CMT also worked well.

[Chris Barnett]

Bought blade cleaner at Grizzly; it works wonders and they say it is safe for carbide. But it is a dangerous chemical [and says so on the can] that burns your nose rather badly and must be used with plenty of ventilation. It will take anything off the blade, even the writing if left too long. Have not used on my Forrest blades yet. Think I might get this Simple Green stuff once I get perhaps some reliable test info from Forrest. Think I might be waiting a long, long time. DW just must let me get some more blades.

[Pat Germain]

^^ FYI, awhile back we heard from a Forrest rep about this. The only cleaner he would endorse for Forrest blades was kerosene. As he pointed out, it's inexpensive and effective.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I use mineral spirits.

Once I bought a jug of that green stuff for a close in on yer knees hard scrubby job I had.

Never again~!! That stuff is so harsh it burned my eyes made my throat sore It was like working with metasilicate brush cleaner. It did cut the grease tho.

[Brian Penning]

^^ FYI, awhile back we heard from a Forrest rep about this. The only cleaner he would endorse for Forrest blades was kerosene. As he pointed out, it's inexpensive and effective.

Yeah but what do you do with the old dirty liquid when you're done?

[Terry Sparks]

Yeah but what do you do with the old dirty liquid when you're done?

Being you only need about a cup of kerosene to clean your blades, if you don't have another use for it, leave it outside in a safe/secure place and it will evaporate in a couple days.

I collect and use the old dirty stuff (thinner, gas, kero ect.)to light my burn barrel and/or brush piles.

[Pat Germain]

Yeah but what do you do with the old dirty liquid when you're done?

You pour it into the tank of any nearby gas turbine powered vehicle, of course. ;)

[Tom Walz]

We supply saw shops and mills where blade cleaning is a big deal. I did some tests last year. I also went through the Internet looking for recommended blade cleaners. There was also a discussion on the tool discussion group. This is all at: http://cs4u.org/cleaningsawblades.htm (http://cs4u.org/cleaningsawblades.htm)

Re: carbide leaching

Tungsten carbide is made to be highly corrosion resistant. If you are using older grades with a straight cobalt binder you will get leaching in acidic conditions. (Modern grades have an alloy binder – sort of like the difference between iron and stainless steel.)

According to the CRC Handbook of Physics and Chemistry, caustic or basic solutions do not affect the Cobalt (see).

However you can use a caustic solution to carry electric current and the electric current effects the carbide. What happens is that the electric current takes advantage of the differing electrical resistivity between the tungsten carbide grains and the Cobalt binder. Even then it can take 15 minutes of strong electrical current before you see any changes in the carbide.

This is sort of like saying that saws don’t cut wood, saw blades do.

In our research we used a strong caustic solution because it was a cheap way to make a solution to carry the current. If you want to know more you can read US Patents 5,624,626, 6,322,871

[Dan Barr]

Habits wont go away sometimes

v/r

dan


LOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOL

[John Newell]

"While the original Simple Green is an effective cleaner, the manufacturer warns that it should not be used to soak carbide-tipped blades or bits. The contents of the cleaner will cause the carbide to leach from the metal."

Original Simple Green will also damage aluminum - quite seriously under some conditions. There are a number of technical bulleting from the Army and the Air Force all cautioning against use near aircraft.

[James Suzda]

Original Simple Green will also damage aluminum - quite seriously under some conditions. There are a number of technical bulleting from the Army and the Air Force all cautioning against use near aircraft.
This is one reason that they came out with a new product which is a lemon based (yellow) Simple Green. The company gave away truckloads of samples during AirVenture in Oshkosh.
(This is the stuff that I used to remove the rust from my tablesaw top, so it might still be mildly corrosive.)

[Randal Stevenson]

This is one reason that they came out with a new product which is a lemon based (yellow) Simple Green. The company gave away truckloads of samples during AirVenture in Oshkosh.
(This is the stuff that I used to remove the rust from my tablesaw top, so it might still be mildly corrosive.)

Is this still made? I don't find the lemon based stuff, locally anymore.