Please help with new wood floor.

[John Hain]

We had this floor installed this summer in our kitchen. There are SEVERAL areas where the wood is pulling apart, and I've included some pictures of the areas.

We have alerted the builder of this as it really affects the floor and looks pretty poor. Before I contact him again, I need some expert opinions to the severity of the problem. Obviously, this is the first winter for this house and floor so I expect some problems, but........this floor covers a pretty big area and there are areas (as shown in the pictures) all over the place. The floor is pulling apart and doesn't look good.

Is this natural to see this in the winter? Is it normal? I don't ever remember seeing other wood floors that look this bad. After seeing the pics, should I get more aggressive about having them fix the floor. I think to fix it, they'll have to tear the whole thing up and start again. That's how widespread the problem appears.

As always, thanks for looking. By the way, I just contributed as I have forgotten lately to do so.......no need to remind me anymore!:D

77705

77706

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[Paul Girouard]

I'd say the flooring was not sufficiently acclimated to the room / house before it was laid.

Did any one do a moisture content check of the flooring AND the sub-floor over which it was laid?


My old house, 50 plus years old, has R. Oak shorts which where under carpet for at least 20 years , so they got some abuse from carpet cleaning / being wet then shrinking , pet issues , etc .

For floors like yours , new wood laid over existing sub-floors that I assume where "dry" as in not new construction "wet" , as in just dryed in from being built . I'd not expect to see that much movement this soon, UNLESS the flooring was #1 Not dry / acclimated , both sub-floor and flooring should be within 2 % of each other AND under 8 % MC. Or dryer if a in floor heat system is present.

Any variance either way and issues will appear .

[Eddie Watkins]

John, after reading your post, I went and looked at our wood floor. In an area appoximately 640 sq ft there are 2 places that have cracks 1/8" about 2-3 ft long. While ther are some gaps elsewhwere they are so small (less than 1/16th") I can't see much separation.
FYI. The floor is on a concrete slab with a 3/4" plywood base and the boards on top of that. THe wood is oak T&G. We keep our house 76 degress in the summer and 68 degrees in the winter. The floor is 10 years old. I can't answer if it is normal or not, maybe somebody else can. I hope this information helps.

Eddie

[John Hain]

The house was new construction. You would think they measured the moisture content of the flooring and subfloor before proceeding, but I don't know as we weren't involved when they were building the house. The builders have a great reputation, but this was done by a subcontractor.

Will the floor ever look good? Will an increase in humidity re-expand the slats and hide the problem only for it to recur every winter? I just don't know, and for the price we paid for this house, and a 1 year span to get changes done on defective areas, I'm not willing to sit around and wait.

The problem: if this floor needs to be replaced it will cost the subcontractors thousands of dollars as this is a big floor. I can only assume that we're in for a fight as they will NOT want to replace it and will try every excuse not to do so. I don't want to replace it either as it will really mess up things for awhile in the house. But I have no intention of having a poorly done floor in our nice new house.

[Paul Girouard]

No it will never look better , the gaps may get smaller in the summer when your heat is turned off , but they are highly unlikely to close back up totally.

If the flooring was not checked that is the problem.

They are a few other variables but IMO the flooring was not allowed to equalize or was not dry enought when it was laid.

You'll get a fight as there will be many excuses to the why.

Good luck.

[Chuck Lenz]

Solid wood floors move, thats why when a wood floor is installed it isn't pushed up right to the wall. Usually there a 1/2" space between the wall and the flooring all the way around the perimeter of the room. I use to refinish floors for about a year and usually everyone wanted the gaps between the boards filled. Once again wood floors move, and filling the gaps may look ok for awhile until the floor moves again and it pops the putty out. So we suggested no wood filler. It's just the nature of the beast. Your floor is fine.

[Tim A. Mitchell]

May or may not be fine. Your builder may have to cover this under warrenty. Thie criteria for the warenty to kick in may not be met, so they may feel the floor is performing as intended.

The firs pic you posted looks like the board has warped and caused separation. There is a gap on alternate sides of adjacent boards. This would make me think that the wood had not acclimated to yuor home, as others indicated.

Often it depends on how much you want to fight. Many builders will want you to be happy. I just worked with a national builder that spent well over a quarter million to fix some water issues that were the fault of the developer. Of course, thier insurance paid for it, but still, they wanted to b sure the customers (that complained) were taken care of.

If I remember, I will look into some documents at the office that give performance criteria for newly constructed items. I am sure wood floors would be in there. There was a section on excessivly squeeky staitr treads.

[Paul Girouard]

Chuck if this is / would be considered "normal " for your floor installs / finishings it's easy to see why you "used" to install flooring.:rolleyes:

And I'm NOT saying you did this floor , BUT if after less than a year , that many boards , in that small a area , are separated there WAS a installation problem directly related to the MC of the flooring.

Yes , wood floors move , BUT IF both sub-floor and flooring are within 2% of each other when it's installed, they move "better" together. If that floor where 5 or 10 years old I'd say it looked normal. But not after less than one year:eek:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=77705&d=1198347900



What kind of dog do you own John ? Those are some big scratches :eek:

[John Hain]

Chuck if this is / would be considered "normal " for your floor installs / finishings it's easy to see why you "used" to install flooring.:rolleyes:

And I'm NOT saying you did this floor , BUT if after less than a year , that many boards , in that small a area , are separated there WAS a installation problem directly related to the MC of the flooring.

Yes , wood floors move , BUT IF both sub-floor and flooring are within 2% of each other when it's installed, they move "better" together. If that floor where 5 or 10 years old I'd say it looked normal. But not after less than one year:eek:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=77705&d=1198347900



What kind of dog do you own John ? Those are some big scratches :eek:

LOL! We have a 40lb Viszla and a 90lb Weimaraner. We knew the scratches would happen. But the floor literally coming apart was not on the agenda. Luckily, this photo is from a very high traffic area. The remainder of the area doesn't look so scratched.

[Chuck Lenz]

Chuck if this is / would be considered "normal " for your floor installs / finishings it's easy to see why you "used" to install flooring.:rolleyes:

And I'm NOT saying you did this floor , BUT if after less than a year , that many boards , in that small a area , are separated there WAS a installation problem directly related to the MC of the flooring.

Yes , wood floors move , BUT IF both sub-floor and flooring are within 2% of each other when it's installed, they move "better" together. If that floor where 5 or 10 years old I'd say it looked normal. But not after less than one year:eek:

Well excuse me Paul, I don't believe that I said that I installed floors, I REFINISHED them, but I was around enough of them to know whats acceptable and whats not. Further more, does anyone have any idea if the guy is useing a humidifier in the winter to keep things from drying out ? Large fluxuations in humidity can make it move also.

[John Hain]

Well excuse me Paul, I don't believe that I said that I installed floors, I REFINISHED them, but I was around enough of them to know whats acceptable and whats not. Further more, does anyone have any idea if the guy is useing a humidifier in the winter to keep things from drying out ? Large fluxuations in humidity can make it move also.


Yes, active humidification throughout the house integrated into HVAC. Works quite well.

[Brian Weick]

I have a few questions ~ what is the thickness of the flooring first of all? What direction was the layout of the flooring run > parallel with the floor joists or perpendicular to the floor joists? Did they install a vapor bearer on the sub floor before the installation process began? What did they use as a fastening application- staples/Cleet nails-?.
Brian:confused:

[Gary Keedwell]

Were those pictures of the floor taken at eye level or were they taken close-up. Just curious....they don't look that bad.

Gary

[Jay Jolliffe]

Wood moves from summer to winter. More moisture in the summer so it will be tight. Winter there's less moisture & the heat in the house will shrink the wood . I have wood floors in my house over radiant heat in gypcreat. The wood sat in my house for 3 to 4 months before I put it down. The moisture content was between 5 & 6 which is low. When they delivered the wood it was around 12 percent. I put it in the summer & it was nice and tight. Now there is maybe 1/16th to 1/8 between some boards. I knew this was going to happen so we live with it. I really doubt that the contractor will replace it. Good Luck...

[Paul Girouard]

I have a few questions ~ what is the thickness of the flooring first of all?

What direction was the layout of the flooring run > parallel with the floor joists or perpendicular to the floor joists?

Did they install a vapor bearer on the sub floor before the installation process began?

What did they use as a fastening application- staples/Cleet nails-?.




My statements where based on it being 13/16 net 3/4" Normal Red Oak hardwood .

Also assumed to be run perpendicular to the floor joist.

With a red rosen / builders paper laid over the sub floor under the Oak.

Nailed with flooring nails the T type.



Chuck I never seen a Oak floor or Maple Jatoba floor that was NOT filled before finishing , and or Re-finishing. It IS a common practice pryor to final sanding.

IMO for a new floor to look that bad in under a year there HAD to be steps missing , poor installation practice's done, MOST LIKELY it was not acclimated properly.

As I said IF the floor was ten years old it would look like it does.

[John Hain]

I have a few questions ~ what is the thickness of the flooring first of all? What direction was the layout of the flooring run > parallel with the floor joists or perpendicular to the floor joists? Did they install a vapor bearer on the sub floor before the installation process began? What did they use as a fastening application- staples/Cleet nails-?.
Brian:confused:

First off, thanks to everyone who has replied!

It's hard to know some of these things as I wasn't involved in the installation.

It appears it is 5/8" - 3/4" flooring. I measured at the carpet junction. It appears the flooring runs parallel with the joists but I can't be sure. Is there a way to tell for sure? I would have to ask the builder if the subcontractor used a vapor barrier. There is no where to evaluate the fasteners used.

These are all questions I will ask the builder.

The pictures are taken a couple feet away. The problem isn't that some of the gaps are really wide (1/4"). The problem is that the majority of the entire floor has gaps 1/16th to 1/8" wide. Therefore the floor looks really ragged.

I could live with it, but it's definitely been noticed and pointed out to me on several occasions by guests in our home, which is kind of, not embarrassing, but annoying on some level. Moreover, I just like things done right, and I've never noticed a floor that looks this separated.

[Paul Girouard]

Pull a floor heat, or two or three, register IF you have forced air heat. You'll be able to see IF there is paper under the hardwood, you might see a fastener, and you'll surely see the thickness.


For joist direction just check the crawl space under the areas that are in question.

I'm not trying to piss in anyones corn flakes here , just tellin ya what I know about , from years of experience.

[John Hain]

Pull a floor heat, or two or three, register IF you have forced air heat. You'll be able to see IF there is paper under the hardwood, you might see a fastener, and you'll surely see the thickness.


For joist direction just check the crawl space under the areas that are in question.

I'm not trying to piss in anyones corn flakes here , just tellin ya what I know about , from years of experience.

No pissing here. I'm just happy everyone is helping.

I have to go get the kids' picture taken now. I'll have to get back to you all later concerning this info!

[Brian Weick]

safe to assume that your flooring joists run from the front of the house to the back ,if you can't tell - with a main girder beam running the width of your home in the middle - if your T@G wood flooring is running the same direction as the floor joists - It is a high probability to part of the problem- but there is not enough information or hard data to back this up entirely. If this is happening all over the entire plane of the floor field - I would have to attribute some of this to the installation (fastening) as well. I am not to sure about the moisture content being the end result of the problem - it could very well be because this is happening over the entire floor -ie; contraction of the wood.:confused:
Brian:)

[Ron Williams]

How well are you maintaining the relative humidity in your house? If you are allowing large swings in the humidity this could be the results. do you have a steam humidifier as part of your Heating system.

[Chuck Lenz]

I could live with it, but it's definitely been noticed and pointed out to me on several occasions by guests in our home, which is kind of, not embarrassing, but annoying on some level.
It's possible that your guests are use to seeing full floating laminate floors that the edges are either glued together or are locked.

[M Toupin]

Wood floors move just like furniture. Let's look at this logically:

Let's assume for argument's sake your room is 10' X 10' and your floor was installed during the summer with 80deg and 70% humidity.

It's now December and the forced air heat is on so you keep the house at 70deg and since it's cold out the humidity is only 15% now.

Your 10' wide floor will have shrunk tangentially (across the grain) about 3.5". Something has to give, wood floors naturally open and close with the seasons to account for these variations. There's lots of shrinkage calculators on line, check it yourself.

IF you want perfect floors install a manufactured flooring like Pergo.

Mike

[Rob Blaustein]

My guess is that this will happen with a solid wood floor whether or not the flooring was acclimated prior to installation IF you have large swings in humidity. In the Northeast we go from rather humid in summer to very dry in winter. I see the same thing in our oak floors in winter--gaps that look just like yours. And we have central air which helps lower humidity in summer, with forced hot air in winter, with a house humidifier, but it's not perfect and we still get large swings in humidity. So we tend not be bothered by the gaps, but we also have much of our floor surfaces covered with rugs which maybe mitigates some of the visual effect.

[Greg Funk]

When the floor was installed was the air conditioning on? If so do you recall what the humidity was. If you have big humidity swings between the summer and winter the wood will move substantially. If the wood closes up in the summer that will tell you that it was installed OK and that you have large humidity swings. The only way to limit the cracks is to control the humidity. If the cracks don't close up then it is likely that the wood was not acclimated when before it was laid. My In-laws had a similar situation with pre-finished oak flooring. It was laid after being in their house for only a few days and had many large cracks. They got their money refunded and kept their floor as-is.

We get a few small ~1/32" cracks in our qtrsawn oak floor in the winter but they tighten up in the summer. Our humidity changes from 30 to 55% from winter to summer.

Greg

[Ralph Barhorst]

I just had a new wood floor installed and I asked about wood movement. My installer said that the only way to minimize the problem of having cracks in the winter time is to install a humidifier on the furnace that will increase the humidity enough to keep the boards tight.

I haven't installed one yet but I probably will.

[John Hain]

Thanks for all the replies; you guys really helped out thus far.

Here's some new info.

The floor runs perpendicular to the joists.

I have looked into every crevice, duct, intake, etc and found:

1. The flooring lies over particle board.
2. There does NOT appear to be any vapor seal or any other type of lining between the two.
3. The flooring is 3/4" oak, T&G, set 1/2"-3/4" away from the sidewall surfaces, and held with nails.
4. We have 2 level heating and humidification running from the furnaces, controlled as part of the thermostat. We have had the humidity set pretty high so far. In fact, our humidity controller on one of the levels just busted open and sprayed down the basement pretty good just this morning! It'll be fixed Wednesday. So bottom line.....there have been no huge humidity swings.
5. The flooring was set in place when AC was running (about April-June) in Omaha weather.

We had my brother-in-law (construction engineer, nice timing!) come check out the floor tonight. He thought the floor wasn't performing well and that we should contact as many of the houses in the neighborhood who have had floor installed by the builder and/or subcontractor to see how they are performing and if others have had problems. We'll definitely be doing that over the next couple weeks.

Once we have more information concerning the history of wood floors put in our neighborhood, we'll contact the builder. This way we have some ammo to use right away.

Sound good? Anything more I should check out?

[Greg Cuetara]

John,
First I don't think I would be too happy if I bought a very expensive house and saw floors like that....with that being said I think that is the nature of 2 1/4" oak flooring. Every oak floor I have seen in the winter time looks like that including mine. In the winter I see small gaps...and in the summer there are no gaps. Do you have forced hot air heating? That will make a huge difference because no matter what type of humidification you have it will be dryer overall than other types of heating systems.

I am not a professional installer but I was told if you want to use solid wood flooring that you really need to have plywood or advantec subflooring....particle board should have been ripped up and plywood put down..not sure how much of an affect that has on everything but it could be making a little difference. Another thing you have hit on is that if a vapor barrier was not used between the subfloor and the solid wood flooring there could be a problem like you are experiencing.

If you do want flooring which will never pull apart you really need to go with an engineered product which would have a floating floor etc.

Good luck with you dilema...it is never fun to deal with these issues. Whatever you do decide to do don't wait to send out letters or put your compliant out there. Sometimes you only have a certain amount of time to put forth 'warrenty' issues.

Greg

[John Hain]

If you do want flooring which will never pull apart you really need to go with an engineered product which would have a floating floor etc.

Greg

I know there's going to be some movement. Certainly that's going to happen here where it's very high humidity in the summer and very low in the winter.

I don't think the pictures are conveying the extent of the issue.

[Paul Girouard]

You sure there P/B under there? That seems very odd, could it be OSB? Maybe on a remodel where some one laid hardwood over P/B but on a new house that just doesn't seem right. Unless they use P/B for sub flooring where your at.

I sticking with my original post , a new floor that hasn't seen one winter should not look like those photos you posted , unless it was not acclimated properly. For the conditions.

The P/B sub floor could also be a problem as P/B if it got wet would not hold nails worth a crap , OSB would be a little better . But IF it where my house and or a job I contracted and I never going in hardwood floor would be laid I of used , at a minimum , 3/4 T&G plywood .

I'll add that the worst conditions to lay hardwood on is a radiant floor heating system , not forced air.

[Brian Weick]

I would have to say more than likely you have Oriented Strand Board -OSB, certain types of OSB can be used for installing hardwood flooring over - but most professional installers will tell you it is always best to go over a plywood sub floor- we are talking about your home - not a shed. I myself would never have OSB for a sub floor- were talking about a home that is supposed to stand the test of times and to skimp on quality of main components of the construction is not a wise move as far as I am concerned. If you have no vapor barrier on the sub floor any moisture is going to become trapped between the sub-floor and the hard wood- OSB will expand and contract tremendously under those conditions- actually it will swell up if wet to twice it's original thickness. You can actually develop a type of fungus between the layers as OSB does not breath as plywood does and can cause a barrier for movement and humidity more so than with a plywood sub floor. One major problem I see is that you exclaimed there is no VB vapor barrier on the floor- that is definitely adding to the problem. In my opinion with T&G hard wood floors - you will have movement with the floor but not that noticeable- what you have going on through out the entire floor is unacceptable in my opinion -. If that OSB floor has ever become saturated with moisture or a liquid spill- it will never return to it's original thickness.
If it was me being in your shoes John, I would contact an attorney that understands and has performed litigation in this arena and understands the process/law to some degree in the construction field. that would be my first move- If you confront the builder on this matter, he is liable for the entire job- not the subcontractor- it was his decision to hire the flooring installers not yours. I personally would consult with an attorney first so you don't go into a discussion about this with out some validity to your situation in regards to the installation. He/She is either going to make good on resolving the issue if they have any concern for their name being passed on- integrity ~ or they will try to shift the blame to someone else-which is going to go no where in my opinion. Hopefully the first will apply in your case. But under no circumstances would I let the same flooring installers back in to your home to repair/re-do the floor- I would make that abundantly clear. In my personal opinion john I think you have a good case to have this floor re-done completely~the way it should have been in the first place. No VB - shame on them! some will say that's a little harsh- I look at it this way- they tried to "cut corners" and that is totally intolerable in my eyes.
I hope you get your floor installed or repaired correctly and your issue with this becomes closed. Keep us up to date if you:) can John!
Wish you the best,
Merry Christmas,:)
Brian

[Rob Blaustein]

I'm going to amend to my original response to your post. I said my floors look like yours, but that's not entirely correct. Our original oak floors exhibit that behavior--gaps in winter, pretty flush in summer. But we did an addition two years ago and new oak floors were put in to match the existing. They were put in over plywood in the winter so I suspect they would have been on the dry side and in their more 'shrunken' state when installed. When I look at the new floor now I don't see any gaps--except a bit near the walls. And we never see any lifting or cupping in the summer so I guess what happens in the summer is that all the boards expand a bit (across their width) but the movement is transmitted so that the gap at the wall trim is where the distance is made up. Only thing I find curious is why when it shrinks it shrinks back to the original state with gaps only near the walls rather than with gaps in the middle. It's possible that the way to install solid wood flooring is to install it at its driest, leaving a bit of room for expansion at the walls. Or maybe the right way is to install it acclimated to the house--it would be interesting to find out from an experienced installer.

[Greg Sznajdruk]

John:

I'm a retired contractor and if it were my house there would defiantly be one unhappy homeowner.

When I've had problems in the past bring in a Certified Floor Covering Inspector can get to the bottom of the issue pretty quick. Builders, subcontractor, legal side has a difficult time when you have an inspection report in hand.

You can find inspectors through the Internet for your area. Normally you can get the builder to pay for the inspection or go half. I've found it to be money well spent.

Or check out the IICRC web site.

http://www.floorspy.com/qualifications.shtml

My .02

Greg

[Matt Schell]

Rob, possibly the reason that you see just a little more gapping near the wall could be the fact that the installer is not able to use their flooring nailer when they get close to the wall making it more difficult to get the boards tight and fasten them securely that way therefore very minor gaps are left plus the fact that those boards aren't nailed as securely= slight gapping during the winter months.

As to the original post there are probably a variety of reasons you are seeing the gapping. The biggest reason is probably humidity issues. We had a hardwood floor in our old house which had steam heat (moinst heat) and saw no seasonal movement. In our new house with forced air (dry yuck) we do see gapping during the winter months and it is frustrating to see.

That being said some of the problem could also be installer laziness. Many times installers who are working with slightly bowed boards do not take the time to sufficiently straighten the boards and achieve the TIGHTEST install possible they just use their flooring nailer and figure thats as tight as it gets. The small gaps that result at the time of the installation are not a problem initially but come the winter time when the wood goes through its seasonal shrinking the minor gaps that the installer failed to tighten at installation become major gaps.

I recently installed some material from a reputable manufacturer that had a large amount of slightly bowed boards. Had I simply "banged" the boards together and nailed them there would have been very minor gapping (1/32 to 1/16) which may have become a problem in the winter. To avoid this I was constantly on my knees screwing wedges to the subfloor to "force" the slightly bowed boards together to achieve the "tightest" install possible. Very frustrating and time consuming but you only get one chance for a tight floor.

[Chuck Lenz]

This whole mess is why I got out of anything to do with construction. No one here that has any length of time installing floors professionally with alot of floors under their belt has actually been to this guys house to see the whole scope of things, yet some of you are yelling lawsuit. It's rediculous. All of a sudden everyones a hardwood floor expert, includeing the home owner. Reminds me of HGTV when some hairstylist that has no idea what goes into building a house decides they are expert house flippers. Yeah, anyone can do that job. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

[Matt Schell]

Just thought of one other thing.

Not all hardwood flooring is created equal many brands are not milled as precisely resulting in some boards that are slighly narrower across the width resulting in slight gapping that gets compounded in the winter. One particular brand (which I won't mention) is reportedly notorious for this problem. That being said it is always the installers responsiblility to make sure that problem boards do not get used in the installation (of course some get by even the best installers)

[Greg Sznajdruk]

This whole mess is why I got out of anything to do with construction. No one here that has any length of time installing floors professionally with alot of floors under their belt has actually been to this guys house to see the whole scope of things, yet some of you are yelling lawsuit. It's rediculous. All of a sudden everyones a hardwood floor expert, includeing the home owner. Reminds me of HGTV when some hairstylist that has no idea what goes into building a house decides they are expert house flippers. Yeah, anyone can do that job. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.


Your right Chuck we have not actually seen the floor and pictures are not always a good indication as to what is going on. Thats why I suggested a Certified Inspector. As far as installing floors, my Dad was builder and when I worked for him I istalled more hardwood than I care to remeber. In a pinch I can still install hardwood with cut nails by hand. But to definatly say whats happen to this floor from pictures I can't tell you or anyone.

Greg

[Chuck Lenz]

One other thing I noticed is the home owner says the hardwood floor covers a pretty large area. Would it not be fair to assume that a large area is going to expand and contract more than a smaller floor ? I know I mentioned humidity, but what about temperatature fluctuations ? Was the floor installed in the middle of a blistering summer when it was hot in the house before the HVAC was normaly being used ? There are just too many variables to say for sure.

[Brian Weick]

Yes, but from what John has documented in this thread as far as data- there is definitely a problem to begin with in my opinion- no vapor barrier and the OSB board? I personally would not have installed OSB to begin with- that is fine for wall sheathing but I am not a big fan for using this on floors do to water/moisture problems. As far as law suit- no- I am just saying that the contractor should resolve this issue if it was installed incorrectly - and so far I would have to say that it is. Just my 2 cents chuck- you have a great Christmas- I just hope John gets this resolved one way or the other,
take care buddy,:)
Brian

[Rick Christopherson]

Chuck I never seen a Oak floor or Maple Jatoba floor that was NOT filled before finishing , and or Re-finishing. It IS a common practice pryor to final sanding.
I was going to note the same thing. So if the floor did need repair, they would simply refinish it, which includes re-applying filler to the new gaps.


IMO for a new floor to look that bad in under a year there HAD to be steps missing , poor installation practice's done, MOST LIKELY it was not acclimated properly.
I disagree, it is more likely that they did let it acclimate, and this actually caused the problem. When you start out with a kiln dried lumber for the flooring and you let it acclimate to the non-conditioned construction environment, it will absorb moisture, not release it. When the house becomes occupied and goes through normal heating and cooling, the relative humidity in the house will be lower than it was during construction. This causes the slight contraction shown. For installing floors, the acclimation process it to let it get to the same temperature of the structure, not to get to the same moisture content that woodworkers tend to think about when they discuss acclimation.

When you install a solid-wood hardwood floor, you ideally want the moisture content of the floor to be slightly lower than the moisture content of the final floor. The floor will sustain and survive a slight increase in moisture, and therefore expansion, but it will not sustain even a slight decrease, or the result will be what is shown in the OP's pictures.

One final thought is that I have seen several comments about OSB being a problem. OSB is not going to expand and contract in its longitudinal dimentions any more than other plywoods. If it did, then the whole floor would be buckled because the floor joists and flooring would prevent the expansion across their lengths. Yes, OSB can swell in thickness because there is no cross-grain in this direction, but longitudinally, there is as much cross-grain in OSB as there is in standard plywood. The "oriented" in OSB does not mean that all of the chips are in the same direction, just that their orientation is controlled.

[Paul Girouard]

#1: I disagree, it is more likely that they did let it acclimate, and this actually caused the problem. When you start out with a kiln dried lumber for the flooring and you let it acclimate to the non-conditioned construction environment, it will absorb moisture, not release it. When the house becomes occupied and goes through normal heating and cooling, the relative humidity in the house will be lower than it was during construction. This causes the slight contraction shown. For installing floors, the acclimation process it to let it get to the same temperature of the structure, not to get to the same moisture content that woodworkers tend to think about when they discuss acclimation.

#2: One final thought is that I have seen several comments about OSB being a problem. OSB is not going to expand and contract in its longitudinal dimentions any more than other plywoods. If it did, then the whole floor would be buckled because the floor joists and flooring would prevent the expansion across their lengths. Yes, OSB can swell in thickness because there is no cross-grain in this direction, but longitudinally, there is as much cross-grain in OSB as there is in standard plywood. The "oriented" in OSB does not mean that all of the chips are in the same direction, just that their orientation is controlled.



Rick go look at my post #2 please note the under 8% I talked about in that post . Thanks .

#1: When I used that term "acclimation" it means ( in the construction industry) that the whole package , house , sub-floor , what ever your using P. Lam , hardwood, etc all are acclimated to the " most likely" MC that the building will be maintained at.

So your right , IF you assumed I meant both flooring and sub-floor where at say 18% MC.

Both should have been around 4 to 6% which is pretty normal for a finished house to be at while it's being lived in in winter. This flooring IMO was closer to 12 or 13% , pretty normal for KD materials to be delivered to a site at this MC.

Acclimation, in my mind , means the MC of a house when finished / being lived in , not just equal in MC at some prefinished phase of const.

A radiant floor heated house at floor level might be as low as 3 or 4% maybe lower.


#2: My problem with OSB is it's inability to hold a fastener of any type.

Sure nails will hold it down IF there's some wood , on the other side/ under / behind it for the fastener to grab on to.

But flooring nails work on pretty much two means of holding in place, the angle they are driven at in relation to the T&G flooring and the "hooks", for direct pulling out. OSB is poor at holding fasteners driven just thru itself.


So IMO this floor was laid wet , MC in the teens would be my guess, maybe the sub-floor was the same . Now the house is heated and the wood has shrunk.

If the org. poster has a moisture meter he could stick the flooring to see, maybe even stick it inside the end grain at a floor heat register to see what the MC is right now.

This is typical of " McMansion's" builders style of const., building to fast without waiting for things to dry, is almost , the most common way things are done. Everyone's in a rush , Home owners , contractors , bankers all want the job done "yesterday" , this floor is, more than likely , a result of some of that "hurry up" !

[Gary Keedwell]

Alot of good reading in this thread. Another thing nobody has brought up is the joists themselves. If you are using kiln dried construction grade 2X10" for joists there is going to be movement, too. The last time I did a floor over, I used plywood and put a continuous bead of construction adhesive on the joist before laying it down.
Another option, which I like , is to use man-made joists which is stronger and there is virtualy no movement at all.
Gary

[Christof Grohs]

My 2 cents as a professional floor guy. I do not think the problem is due to a lack of moisture barrier as mentioned in previous posts. Moisture transmission between subfloor and flooring material would cause cupping followed by overall expansion of the material, as the moisture content of the floor boards reached equilibrium throughout it's thickness. Should a barrier be in place...yes but is it the problem, no.

I wonder what finish was used on this floor originally and after the refinish? My guess is waterborne as the boards look pretty pale. I'm also curious what sealer was used under the finish?

My theory is panelization has caused the floor to separate in this manner. It goes without saying that your floor is going to contract in winter with or without vapor barrier. Your floor contracted but not in a uniform manner. Why? Well one reason could be waterborne finish, paticularly 2-component, glues the edges of the boards together. There are sealers which help to prevent this from happening but even when using them there can still be some panelization. You might even hear your floor pop/crack from time to time, this is the sound of one of the "glue joints" letting go. There are many other reasons for panelization http://thevirtualshowroom.com/HWD/SldWd/SWMisc/panelizing.htm


To help narrow this down give us a little more info:
1. type of sealer
2. type of topcoat
3. how frequent are the large gaps occuring?
4. Is there any type of pattern?
5. Does your floor make popping noises or creak when you walk on it?
6. If it is happening more in one area than the other how are the drywall corners holding up? Are miters opening up on your trim anywhere in that area?

I agree very strongly with Chuck Lenz, it's important not to jump to conclusions based on the opinions in this thread. Don't hang your floor guy based on the opinions given in this thread. Go to the FITS for an inspector who understands wood and stay away from the carpet cleaning inspection services like IICRC.

[Rick Christopherson]

Paul, there was no reason to take my posting so personal. I was simply commenting on the fact that most people, including you, suggested to let the hardwood acclimate to the construction environment, which in my opinion is not correct.

This flooring IMO was closer to 12 or 13% , pretty normal for KD materials to be delivered to a site at this MC.This 12 to 13% would be applicable for KD framing, but for hardwood at this MC, it would be junk. KD hardwood is going to be at about 6-8% MC, so letting it acclimate to the construction environment is going to cause it to absorb moisture, not release it. It is a common mistake that many non-professional installers make when they install a floor. The worst cases of this that I have heard of are where a hobbyist homeowner will stack and sticker their KD flooring before installing it.

I am sorry that I used your posting as an example, but I wasn't attacking you with it, merely pointing out the common misconception that several people had repeated. Yours was simply convenient because you were the only one (that I noticed) that correctly noted that the original floor is typically putty-filled as standard operating procedure.

As for the OSB, I never said it was a good flooring substrate, and I wouldn't permit it in my own home's construction, especially under a hardwood floor. I was simply commenting on the comments others were making regarding expansion. I have no idea who was making what comments, it was just something I had noticed as I skimmed through the remainder of the thread.

[John Hain]

This whole mess is why I got out of anything to do with construction. No one here that has any length of time installing floors professionally with alot of floors under their belt has actually been to this guys house to see the whole scope of things, yet some of you are yelling lawsuit. It's rediculous. All of a sudden everyones a hardwood floor expert, includeing the home owner. Reminds me of HGTV when some hairstylist that has no idea what goes into building a house decides they are expert house flippers. Yeah, anyone can do that job. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Let's get one thing straight. I started this thread because I thought I might have a problem and because I was looking for opinions on the issue. No one yelled lawsuit. And you can bet your bottom dollar I'm not about to start one for no reason.

I purposely brought in an expert, a construction engineer, who does flooring (both oversees and installs) for a living. So to claim no one with professional experience has seen the floor is just wrong.

Seems like near all of the replies in this thread were very helpful in what they were trying to opine, except your original thread.


One other thing I noticed is the home owner says the hardwood floor covers a pretty large area. Would it not be fair to assume that a large area is going to expand and contract more than a smaller floor ?This was mentioned by the flooring professional, who stated he wouldn't expect to see nearly as much separation even for a larger area floor.


This is typical of " McMansion's" builders style of const., building to fast without waiting for things to dry, is almost , the most common way things are done. Everyone's in a rush , Home owners , contractors , bankers all want the job done "yesterday" , this floor is, more than likely , a result of some of that "hurry up" !You might be right about this.

Christof, I will have to check on your questions. That's definitely an interesting thought.

At this point, I know alot of my neighbors had flooring installed by the same company. I think it'll be interesting to see how their floors are performing. I do think bringing in a floor evaluation specialist is a good idea. I'm going to call the builder again and reiterate our problems and that we are investigating further. They do have a very good reputation and they might be generally helpful, though I'm not planning on it.

Again, thanks for all the replies. Please continue the discussion as it does help my situation to have all ideas in the open.

[John Hain]

The subfloor is OSB. Just got a good look at it from underneath.

[Rick Christopherson]

Another thing nobody has brought up is the joists themselves. If you are using kiln dried construction grade 2X10" for joists there is going to be movement, too. Please don't get mad at me, because I am not trying to pick a fight today--It's Christmas. However, framing members are length-oriented, where their width is of little concern or bearing on the structure (with minor exceptions of course, but especially true for joists). Wood does not change appreciably in length with changes in moisture content. Changes in the height or width of a joist are not going to have deleterious effects on the flooring put over them.

[Gary Keedwell]

Please don't get mad at me, because I am not trying to pick a fight today--It's Christmas. However, framing members are length-oriented, where their width is of little concern or bearing on the structure (with minor exceptions of course, but especially true for joists). Wood does not change appreciably in length with changes in moisture content. Changes in the height or width of a joist are not going to have deleterious effects on the flooring put over them.
Didn't know you took holidays off ;) Ordinarily on a short board the length would seem to move very little, but on long spans, it can add up. Also, when joists dry there are other factors like twisting, which you won't get from man-made joists.
Gary

[Brian Weick]

that's what I thought- the holding power of the Cleet nails/staples -(if that's what they used) is not as strong as in a 3/4" plywood sub floor in conjunction of the vapor barrier missing- it is all starting to add up~ Do some research on the WWW you will find a lot of information on this problem- ask a reputable floor company that sells hard wood flooring about your scenario - it's probably going to ride write along the side of a lot of these post replies. I really hope you can get this fixed John- frustrating I am sure- so what does your brother in law think- the engineer?

similar situation to yours John- under the different applications to wood flooring- http://www.theflooringlady.com/installing_hardwood_flooring.html
Brian :)

[Rick Christopherson]

Very Funny! :D Yes, I know how that sounded, but No, it isn't just because of Christmas, I just didn't want you to get the wrong idea about my posting. Even on long lengths, the changes are generally trivial in the scheme of things.

[Paul Girouard]

Paul, there was no reason to take my posting so personal. I was simply commenting on the fact that most people, including you, suggested to let the hardwood acclimate to the construction environment, which in my opinion is not correct.




What part of my post that say to the living in the house MC are you NOT reading:confused:

A house here , in the PNW , can be as high as 18% MC AFTER dry wall is hung and finished.

It must then be dried out , MC brought down to 6 to 8% or dryer , AND the materials like, but not limited to , hardwood / softwood flooring , Plastic Laminate , sheet vinyl , etc all need to be also ACCLUMATED to the finished , or with in a couple of few % of MC , OF WHAT THE HOUSE will be WHEN IT WILL BE LIVED IN.

Maybe I'm not being clear enought.

I have no idea of what your version / perversion of acclimation is.

Merry Christmas. I'm done with this one , good luck with your floor.

Up Donner , up Blitzen , and To all a good night:D Rudolf as well UP you son of a ..........

[Brian Weick]

I feel like I am missing something~? I think you replied under the wrong post - at any rate- Have a great Christmas Rick-:)
Brian

[Gary Keedwell]

Very Funny! :D Yes, I know how that sounded, but No, it isn't just because of Christmas, I just didn't want you to get the wrong idea about my posting. Even on long lengths, the changes are generally trivial in the scheme of things.
LOL Big lengths of boards are going to dry in various ways. My whole point is that man made joists will be the future. They are more stable. Period. I've talked with various builders and the man-made joists have been around awhile now, but the traditionalists are slow to adapt. When and if I build my retirement-dream home, I will incorporate those "I-beam" type joists to my house.
Gary

[Brian Weick]

Actually- now that you mention it- My friend Terry has them in his house - 1/2 million dollar home all LFJ's as floor joists and man are those joists rigid , very rigid- I would definitely have those in my house if I had the choice- I am just not a fan of OSB going horizontal in my house if you know what I mean-.
Brian

[Chuck Lenz]

Let's get one thing straight. I started this thread because I thought I might have a problem and because I was looking for opinions on the issue. No one yelled lawsuit. And you can bet your bottom dollar I'm not about to start one for no reason.

I purposely brought in an expert, a construction engineer, who does flooring (both oversees and installs) for a living. So to claim no one with professional experience has seen the floor is just wrong.

Seems like near all of the replies in this thread were very helpful in what they were trying to opine, except your original thread.
No problem John, I got the hint. Adios.

[Brian Weick]

And I am just saying guys- because there was no female interjection here, Christmas or no Christmas ~ We all have opinions and different perspectives on things.I am sure there are some of you that don't agree with me~ that's cool, I have left posts on some threads where I learned something new and am not ashamed to admit it- I hate to see things get soured up over our own opinions - were all trying to help and we put our opinions down- so be it , maybe we disagree about certain aspects- that's OK - I usually , and this is just me, try to find more data in relation to the thread - and I always learn something new ~ it's impossible to be the master of everything. so~ can we just have some good dialog ~ you guys are all great people , I mean that- Have a great Christmas ~ talk about not being perfect ~ I started and finished all of my shopping yesterday! typical male-:eek:

I still think it has something to do with the vapor barrier and the OSB - Just my opinion guys- I am really curios as to what his engineer brother in law came up with- you know?
Brian:)

[Tom Godley]

John, I feel your pain -- new house issues are never fun.

Being quite fond of wood floors, I have had them installed/ and or fixed/replaced in every house I have ever owned - in all kinds of rooms over all kinds of subfloors - and they all get gaps.

Taking just Oak floors - I have had the most movement with floors coated with water base finishes and less with those stained and finished with oil. Also, the lighter the floor the more you tend to notice the"GAP" problem. Any movement I did get happened for the most part within the first year they were down - If not before. I also can not remember an oak floor that I did not have a filler used prior to it being finished.

I purchased a beach house that had a light oak floor coated with water polly -- it was not filled -- I did notice the gaps in that floor. The builder installed that floor -- it was "sold" as having "light" "modern" floors -- I think the builder just put down the cheapest thing he could get and put some finish on it. When I had the floors refinished it was filled and had an oil stain w/oil poly applied - and looked very good.

With all of the above said -- I am not sure if having many 1/8 inch gaps is a "normal" problem. I can not remember if that beach house had gaps that big before the refinish. Although, I have had old floors fixed that did have big gaps and have had good results with the fillers used.

It would be interesting to hear from some floor installers regarding the different "oak" flooring available today -- and what to look for! I have been lucky in finding good floor people throughout the years.

[Christof Grohs]

John

Here is something you might find interesting. This is published by the Maple Flooring Manufacturers Assoc. and the information herein applies to all species of wood.

"Panelization"

"Panelization" is a condition where localized excessive cracks develop between some strip flooring boards while adjacent boards remain tightly bonded together with no apparent separations. "Panelization" (or "sidebonding") is definitely not a new problem. It has, however, gained increasing attention as new EPA V.O.C. regulations have begun to affect the availability of traditional oil-based floor finishing products in many areas of the country.
While the development of "panelization" is certainly not limited to one brand of finish or to one particular subfloor design, the problem has been most closely associated with the use of water-based sealers and finishes on raw (untreated) maple strip flooring in areas of the country that experience distinctly different seasonal moisture conditions.
MFMA cautions installers and end-users that the use of some water-based finishes has produced a sidebonding effect that can result in localized excessive and irregular separations ("panelization") between maple flooring strips. We strongly recommend that end-users, project architects and specifiers consult with their flooring installer and finish manufacturer to obtain approved procedures for sealing and finishing a raw maple strip floor with water-based products.
If you have additional questions, please contact MFMA's Technical Director at 847-480-9138.
Rev. February 2005

[Gene Michael]

we put down Bruce hardwood flooring in our new house. depending on which room, it's been down between 12 to 18 months. After reading your note the other night, I checked our flooring. No spaces growing between the boards. Though I didn't use a moisture meter prior to nailing, I did let the flooring acclimate for several weeks. Everything I read said this was the most important preparation step. The house had been in the dry for a number of months, but it wasn't heated when I started. So, my guess is either a difference in moisture content or differenecs in the temperature of the sub floor and flooring (or both) caused by not letting the wood acclimate caused your problem. The only other thing I can think of is that the subfloor was incompatible with the flooring. I know that flooring shrinks and expands with changes in temperature, but the rate for particle board is less. Is your subfloor particle board?
Good luck!

[John Hain]

Is your subfloor particle board?
Good luck!

It's OSB. Depending on who you ask, it's not the best subfloor to use. I especially feel that way considering the price of our house.

[Rick Christopherson]

Paul, there is nothing in my posting to warrant such an animus response. Calm down. There is nothing to gain with this hostility.

You (and others) told people to acclimate the flooring to the environment in the house. Acclimate means: To accustom or become accustomed to a new environment or situation; adapt. You cannot acclimate something to an environment that does not yet exist. As you noted in your last posting, and I agree with it, the moisture content of a new house can be very high. So if you acclimate to that environment before installation, then the wood will have to re-dry when the house stabilizes, and this means it will shrink.

Maybe some of the confusion might be that you are saying “acclimate” in the future-tense, which is not acclimation. Acclimation is present tense. If you know that the environment will be drying after construction, then you need to plan for this by installing the wood drier than the existing environment so it does not first expand and then contract as the environment reaches its equilibrium moisture levels.

If that’s not the case, then are you suggesting that the flooring not be installed until several months after the family has moved into their new home? It will take several months for the house’s environment to stabilize, which is why people don’t see this problem arise until long after they move in.

[Paul Girouard]

Hell I don't even know what "animus" means , I will look it up though.

Ah hostile , no I'm not hostile , I just do NOT think you understand what I'm saying .

In your last post MAYBE you are seeing it . Yes what I'm saying is you wait , how ever long it takes.

I am a lead carpenter for a small company , I've been a carpenter since 1975 , mostly 8 years USN sandwiched in there.

And yes IF that's what it takes to dry out a house , which in my experience , maybe in part it's the way we build , and I have been fortunate in that most of my career companies I've worked for have worked this way. WE use few subs , so we break ground , we do flat work , we side , trim out , do the finish trim etc . So maybe we are slow at building , but generally once we get in the dry the fans come on and stay on , air movement will start the drying process , we add heaters soon after , generally a old electric furnace along with the fans. To speed the drying out process.

They run pretty much 24 /7 right after the rock is hung , we check the MC of the sub-floor AND any product that might shrink as I've said , all of it is brought down in MC until it's under 10 % , flooring and sub-floor BOTH on a radiant floor heat system we WILL wait as long as it takes for both of them to be in what will BE the living MC.

Maybe that's wrong , but maybe that's why our floors don't look like this guys after 8 or 9 months.


As Forrest Gump once said , "That's all I got to say about that."

YMMV , Merry Christmas. :) Just tryin to help around here with what I know about.

That floor was laid wet , to wet, that's why it has BIG gaps. Simple.

[Chuck Lenz]

That floor was laid wet , to wet, that's why it has BIG gaps. Simple.
BIG gaps ? lol. Those are hardly what I would call BIG gaps. Ever see a 90 year old hardwood floor ? Lets get real here.

[Gary Keedwell]

BIG gaps ? lol. Those are hardly what I would call BIG gaps. Ever see a 90 year old hardwood floor ? Lets get real here.
I just looked at the pictures again...they don't look that bad.:o
GK

[Brian Weick]

So has the verdict come in from your Brother-in-law? Just curious.
Brian

[Paul Girouard]

Paul, there was no reason to take my posting so personal. I was simply commenting on the fact that most people, including you, suggested to let the hardwood acclimate to the construction environment, which in my opinion is not correct.
This 12 to 13% would be applicable for KD framing, but for hardwood at this MC, it would be junk.

KD hardwood is going to be at about 6-8% MC, so letting it acclimate to the construction environment is going to cause it to absorb moisture, not release it. It is a common mistake that many non-professional installers make when they install a floor.




Rick this line above has bothered me since I read your post ,around here , PNW , materials like wood flooring is often stored in covered sheds that are open to the air ,they are NOT in heated sheds. I checked a variety of materials ,all KD stock some hardwood , some soft wood , some in my unheated shop some at a local lumber yard . It would be typical IF one ordered hardwood flooring from this yard to have it stored in the same shed this stock was in .

A few boards , some Paduak and some Walnut where at 6 % but by far the most common MC % was 10 and / or 12% MC .

Here's the photos , some 1/4 sawn R Oak and some Hemlock ,

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Dec30200710.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Dec3020077.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Dec3020079.jpg

Very typical for stock to get in the teens here , Hardwood floor is OFTEN delivered to job sites and stored in unheated garage space , where it draws moisture out of the air and the slab. Or to a lumber yard like mine where it would be stored in a barn like this stock, in my photos, was stored in.

Maybe you have read my more resent posts that, hopefully , clearly state the sub floor and the material BOTH need to get to a final / living in the house MC that will be stable.

Here's one of our jobs just "in the dry" this past Friday , the heater won't do much for heating or drying but the box fans will start the process that will continue until the place is dried out , this job doesn't get any hard wood floors I don't believe , carpet and tile , so the process will not be a critical as a hardwood floor install.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Dec30200711.jpg

It's been a wet month :eek:

So to say hardwood that is 12% is junk is just plain wrong, IMO YMMV.

So what did you find out John?

[Jason Quick]

Late though I am in coming to this thread, I find it very interesting. I have two things in common with our OP:

1) I live in the Omaha area;
2) I have a new house with a bunch of hardwood flooring.

We have about 800SF of 5" wide red oak installed with staples over tarpaper. Subfloor is OSB over I-joists. It was installed in March/April '07. Finished in September w/ 2 base coats Waterlox gloss, topcoat of WL Satin.(gorgeous finish BTW). The finishers did use filler.

Prior to install, the flooring sat in the unheated garage for about 8 weeks, on pallets that rested on 6mil poly. It was moved to the (basically unheated at the time) basement when the drywallers showed up, where it stayed for another few weeks, then we started install. I have no idea what the MC of the OSB or flooring was at any point in this process. If I had to guess, I'd say in the range of 6%. (It gets DRY here in wintertime.)

As of right now, there is some minor gapping (maybe 1/16") at a few scattered points around the house. Certainly nothing like what John's posted pics are showing.

If it were my floor, I'd be more than a little concerned about it. The only question I have is of scale - the pics make it a bit difficult to tell how wide those boards are. I'd guess 3.25", as that's the common "premium" size most builders seem to install. But some sense of how long those cracks are would be useful.

Jason

[John Hain]

Alright here's the update. I didn't want to respond until I had some good info.

The gaps in the floor definitely were not normal for a hardwood floor. I got a hygrometer to make sure the installed humidifiers were working well. Indeed, they were NOT. Called the HVAC guy who came out and discovered they weren't wired up correctly, we were only getting partial efficiency from the units. This made sense, as I questioned the amount of humidity in the house after thinking about it for awhile.

With the humidifiers fixed, the hygrometer is reading stark improvement. The gaps in the flooring are slowly coming together. The largest gaps now are 1/16th inch. There are still a couple areas where the endgrain butt faces are separated that shouldn't be too reliant on humidity though. Overall, after a couple weeks of adequate humidity, things are looking better.

The flooring guys are coming out this week to check things out. They are responsive. The lack of vapor barrier will be a scheduled conversation, though, as I wonder if it might contribute to the butt-joint problems on just a couple areas.

So, all in all, everything is "coming together" quite well; pun intended. I would like to thank everyone who contributed to this thread. Having a bunch of opinions concerning potential problems with opinions ranging from disasters to minor issues --- made this a smooth process for me. Once again, a big thanks to everybody.

Got a new moisture meter for x-mas. It's a Wagner pinless, so I'm not sure how perfectly accurate it is with a finished floor......but set for Red Oak, it measures a range of 7-10% over the floor entirety. It measures 3/4" depth so it probably doesn't tell too much (too deep).

[Paul Girouard]

Thanks John . Good luck :)

[John Hain]

Thanks John . Good luck :)

The floor still may very well have been laid wet. But, at this point, I'm willing to see how well it comes together. There are a couple gaps (the ones that are a full 1/16th inch that run for 5 or 6 feet) that never will come together perfectly. But like others have said, it's a wood floor, not a laminate.......

My wife still thinks it looks poor, I think it's on it way to acceptability. I'm more of an optimist.....;)