Stamps creation, section of drawing missing during engraving with Epilog

[Ben Levesque]

(Info for people:Paul Brinkmeyer suggestion to use polymer from Jackson Marking Products was really great, the product does not smell at all (If you have a 600cfm exhaust or higher or course ))

But my current problem is the following;
Anyone had ever seen this issue when engraving with the stamp option with Epilog?

1. During rastering, there is always one section of the drawing missing on the final engraved polymer piece. I have attached a 3d drawing showing the problem. (Polymer test.jpg)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2080/2129220814_fbeb84126a_o.jpg

The diagonal bar crossing the engraved rectangle represents the zones not being engraved by the laser.
To be more specific the laser head does not skips this zone, it is moving (rastering normally) over the missing zone, but the laser does not fire and creates a missing section.

2. And some time, the laser reduce it's intensity over that zone (It only burn a little) and then full power comes back again.

3. And also when the laser fires in this zone and reduce its power, it elongate the drawing too, like stretching it during the problem period. But it always terminates the drawing correctly.

Problem is, the issue does not always repeats itself at the same place on the drawing, and the missing zone does not always have the same characteristics as describe here.
And, this issue only happens when the stamps option is chosen. Normal rastering does not recreate this problem.

Anyone had experience the same thing??????

I have sent 2 emails during this week to Epilog, they don’t seem to like using emails as a tool to resolve issues with their clients. (I really don't know why?)
They did not reply to my second email that had more details on this issue.
I am not always beside my machine during the week, and emails is such a great tool to describe your problem.

Equipment used.
Epilog mini 18
35 watts
Firmware Version: 1.0.2.3
Driver Version: 7.07
Corel X3
Windows XP sp2

Ben

[Bill Cunningham]

I engrave literally hundred and hundreds of stamps every year, and have never seen this problem.. The only problem I have seen, is I have to offset the cutline .020 further on the right hand side.. It seems to want to cut .020 closer on that side.. this only shows up in the stamp driver though.. If I send the raster, and the cut as two separate files, the cut is accurate.. Over the years, I have learned to work around the .020 offset .. It really only becomes apparent if your making Round stamps with a border, and I usually cut those 50 at a time. But now, I have software templates that have the offset drawn in...

[Roy Brewer]

1. During rastering, there is always one section of the drawing missing on the final engraved polymer piece.[/font]Ben,

Is there a chance you are using the USB port on your Mini? If so, I suspect the problem will go away if you hook it up Ethernet.
If that's not the case, then this post will be deleted promptly! {;<)

Because of the sophisticated error checking built into Ethernet, for all practical purposes, its accuracy does not depend on the hardware/software. USB, while typically reliable, can and will have problems with the right combinations of USB controllers, OSs, and windows configurations.

[Jim Watkins]

I innitially hooked up through the USB myself and experienced problems. Sometimes jobs never made it to the laser and sometimes they came out wrong or started in the wrong position.

When I had my onsite training, I had the guy reset my system with the Ethernet hook up and have had no problems since.

They said they recommend the Ethernet over USB.

[Mike Hood]

One thing that can cause problems with USB is the quality of the cable as well. They're pushing the speed USB pretty hard wth 2.0 and you need a decent shielded cable.

I use USB exclusively on mine.

[Ben Levesque]

It is not a connection problem, since I never used the USB port (my machine was always connected on the RJ45 connector).

I suspect more of a bug in the printing driver (only with the stamp option) since all other options are working find.

Plus it still does not explain as to why Epilog only gives support by phone?

Ben

[Roy Brewer]

Plus it still does not explain as to why Epilog only gives support by phone?BenBen,
Then I'm out of ideas. Furthermore I forgot that this forum wouldn't let me erase my post --- so my error will remain for all the world to see.

I'm aware of hundreds of people using the Epilog to make stamps w/o that problem --- so I'm hesitant to agree it is something in the driver; I'd tend to think something unique in your system.

While it would be reasonable for Epilog to put more emphasis on the phone queue (because a huge percentage of people prefer that emphasis), they do respond via eMail. You may not be aware that they shut down for the entire week and will not return until 3JAN. All registered eMail addresses were notified of the shut down. Your posts indicate you might have sent those last week(?); if so I have no excuse other than a rush to get all issues on the table handled before the shut down. I do get Cc:'s almost on a daily basis to clients in my territory where tech support has responded by eMail.

[Ben Levesque]

Roy

At least an answer is better than no response at all, don't you think? At least you're trying, and I thank you for that.

Regarding Epilog support, All issues that I had opened during the year with Epilog, and I mean "ALL" issues has resulted with emails ending with a "call us". I got a few being put on hold on the period I could call at work, plus not being beside my machine. So emails are my last resort.

I am aware of their closure period, although by guessing it and comparing what is closed on the streets. There is no dates on their web site. My last email was sent to 'tech@epiloglaser.com' on Dec 20. I am probably asking too much, I don't know. So I was trying a last research over here.

Ben

[Paul Woodrich]

The problem exists regardless of the cable / communication method used. If you want to see it occur more frequently add "bottom up" engraving to the equation. The only solution I have found is to resend the file and perform the engraving on something other than the stamp stock. Once the file engraves (correctly) it repeats (doing it correctly), then you can engrave it (the file) with confidence.

[Roy Brewer]

So emails are my last resort.Ben,
While I certainly understand why tech support would prefer the phone; troubleshooting would be so much easier "live." Otherwise it seems the options would be troubleshoot one step, wait for response, next step...

Or, try to provide a "dictionary" of the trouble shooting tree.

Nevertheless, as acomadating as Epilog's tech support has proven to be, I suspect if they know eMail is your only option they'd be willing to work with you that way.

But, you are aware, that they are open early/late in attempt to match almost everyone's schedule(?).

Since Paul confirms that this is not a "first time ever" issue, I'll check through my sources on the missing area.

[Peck Sidara]

Ben,

The rubber stamp function of our driver can be considered one of the simplest applications for the Epilog. I can assure you there's nothing wrong/bug with the driver and that bottom up engraving doesn't help or make it worse.

Epilog closes the week of Christmas annually and re-opens the 2nd of January. Our tech support team is on call this week for emergency issues. Our apologies if your emails haven't been responded to in a timely fashion over the past week or so. Having worked in our tech support for close to 9 years, I can say trouble-shooting works best on the phone while at the engraver. Email can work too but it prolongs the diagnostics as you'll need to check this, check that, get back to me, etc. etc.

Let's get to the issue at hand. If the laser isn't firing in areas but continue to sweep over the area as if it should be firing then the problem is likely the laser or an interlock issue. One supporting factor to this statement is your note that it's intermittent and occurs in different areas.

If the laser doesn't fire in certain areas but completely ignores those areas then we're dealing with a communication issue. If it's a communication issue, the problem should be repeatable from the display of the laser.

Tech support can guide you thru checking the interlock switches to make sure they're closed when the laser continues to sweep over the area and doesn't fire. From there, they'll be able to determine what components are needed.

Call them or provide your contact information via PM with a specific time that works best for you and I'll forward the info on. We should have you back up and running by tomorrow.

In hindsight, I should've checked in on the forums a couple times during the break but with family in town, the holidays and prepping my car for paint, work kinda slipped my mind.:)

[Brian Robison]

I started using the usb after the latest firmware and drivers. I got a new laptop also. I used to use the ethernet cable. The file goes to the laser so fast now that I usually don't have time to watch the green light blink. So far absolutely no problems with the usb.

[AL Ursich]

Everyone is looking on the Electronic Data side of this. Any chance it is in the Beam side of this? Mirror, Lens, something like a air assist tube getting in the laser beam along a rail some place blocking it?

Move the whole artwork to the other end of the table and see if it changes...

Just a thought.....

AL

[Ricky Gore]

I've had this same issue While vector cutting and raster engraving. I was cutting out a simple square and it cut the whole thing out except for the last little section. I ran it again and it worked fine. Then on another occasion I was engraving a logo and it left the top portion off, I just ran the job again and it worked so I just stopped it when it got to the section it had done on the first try and it looked fine, but I wonder why it would randomly leave things out. Speaking of random, have you run the same job multiple times with the same result?

[Ben Levesque]

Case close! ... I gave up.

Ben

[Peck Sidara]

Ben,

Did tech support get a hold of you and what were the instructions given?
If this needs to be escalated, email Epilog's service manager Eric Mitchiner at ericm at epiloglaser dot com.

[Bill Cunningham]

It's unfortunate that your having this problem with doing stamps.. I personally find that the Epilog stamp driver works fine for me, except for that little quirk of a .020 offset, but I now work around that automatically.. Stamps are a pretty fair part of my product line, but if your your going to make stamps, you have to make a fair number of them to get the price breaks on the self inking units from the manuf. and, you have to stock, and have on hand, a good selection. I buy my ink by the quart, and stamp units by the case (and you need several sizes). That also ties up a bit of money in some stuff that might sit on your shelf for several months before it moves. Other stuff like higher end daters can be bought in fewer numbers, but you still should have a few on hand.. If your not planning on making stamps one of the main parts of your business, your just wasting your time because it won't be all that profitable..

[Scott Shepherd]

I personally find that the Epilog stamp driver works fine for me, except for that little quirk of a .020 offset, but I now work around that automatically..

Made me laugh :) Works fine except for the fact it doesn't work, but I've adjusted for that, so it works fine :) (please note the smileys)

[Bill Cunningham]

Made me laugh :) Works fine except for the fact it doesn't work, but I've adjusted for that, so it works fine :) (please note the smileys)

Well Scott it's only a little quirk, and the driver works well enough that I do 10k - 15k a year in rubber stamps alone... Shifting the cutline .020 to the right of the stamp itself, is not much of a problem considering what other manufacturers call a 'stamp' driver' that even require you to send it to the laser already converted to a negative, because the driver is not smart enough to realize that white should be black and black should be white. And 'thats' the biggest pain in the butt of 'stamp drivers' on some other common machines...:):p

[Scott Shepherd]

Bill, it was only a joke, hence the smileys, but since you mention it, the amount of money you make is beside the point. You can make $50K with a machine that's very difficult to work with. That means nothing. My concern would be more for the files I have shifted .020", then one day the driver gets fixed and now all my old files are shifted .020" the wrong way. It would require all my repeat business be reworked.

I'm very aware of work arounds and the use of them. I generally don't support work arounds because of the reason I just mentioned. Put pressure on them and make it get fixed, whatever the cause, driver or not. If you adjust it yourself, then it never gets reported or fixed and it's possibly 100's of other people out there having trouble with the same thing.

Bottom line, you shouldn't have to move anything .020" to get it to line up. There's a problem somewhere that needs to be addressed.

[Bill Cunningham]

Hi Scott... No offense taken my friend.. I know you were just joking around.. It's not likely they will come up with a fix for my machine, the TT is no longer 'software' supported as far as upgrades are concerned so I doubt if their going to bring out a fix for this anytime soon.. However, I would 'hope' this problem has been corrected in the mini's and others..
The only real time it's really noticeable, is on round stamps with a border.. The work around will not effect the layout or cause any detrimental effects in a stamp driver even if they fix it because the cut lines are positioned not to interfere anyway.. The epilog driver uses a hairline for the cut (the inner one), and another hairline for the boundry (the outer one) The picture below is what is sent in vector to the engraver.. the driver makes all the other changes required, and can be adjusted for slope off etc., but I have never had to touch the factory settings as far as thats concerned.. The number of stamps we do was mentioned only to emphasize the fact that this little quirk has no effect on production at all...
I don't want to hijack Ben's thread, just concerned that he 'gave up' when it has to be something simple thats causing the problem...It certainly isn't normal..

[Dan Hintz]

Might I make another suggestion... failing memory. I do not know if he Epilog uses on-board memory (I assume a machine of that level does), but it could be either there or memory on the PC. It does not fail often, but when it does, things get funky.

For example, when one of the DIMMs on my PC went wonky, it took me about 6 months to figure it out. The POST test on power-up always showed the memory as fine, and I believed it. I originally attributed it to a potential virus as it would always shut down FireFox at the oddest of times, recording a CD would often lead to one file being messed up, etc. I only found out when I downloaded a memory stress tester and let it run for a few minutes. 10 minutes into it and one block of memory was returning flaky results. Swapping out that DIMM has seen zero issues since (that was a year and a half ago).

All it would take it a few flaky bits to leave a section of an HPGL plot as empty, only to have it resync later on in the image.

Send a raster image of the same size, but at various points on the bed... if it happens at roughly the same point in the image (it may not be bad all of the time if the bits are flaky), consider a problem with the Epilog's memory. Next, try running a large program (like Word) before running the driver... this will place the driver in a different place in memory. If that removes the missing section or moves it to a different portion of the image, consider it a possible problem with the PCs memory.

[Ben Levesque]

As with Peck's recommendation I had escalated my query with Eric

We will do some hardwares change in the coming weeks and see if it resolves this issue once and for all.

Ben

[Bill Cunningham]

Keep us posted Ben.. It just may be something the rest of us haven't experienced 'yet' :eek: Not something I'm looking forward to, but forewarned is forearmed...