My first lathe

[jonathan snyder]

Hi Folks,

I bit the bullet and bought a lathe. On the advise of a few folks here I went with the Jet 12 20 mini lathe. I know, no pics, it didn't happen! Well I don't actually have it yet. The local jet dealer thought they had one in stock, but ended up only having the 10 14 variable speed. So it is on order, should be in mid January.

So in the mean time I need to look into the purchase of some decent lathe tools er chisels. I don't even know the right terminology! As you can tell this is my first lathe. I was looking at this (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&cat=1,330,43164,20262&p=20262) set from LV or perhaps this set of 6 (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&cat=1,330,56745&p=56745) Any thoughts or recommendations?

I will also need a good book or two to learn the basics. I'm interested in starting with simple things like chisel handles.

Thanks
JOnathan

[Gordon Seto]

Jonathan,

The best advice anyone can give you is here:

Alaska Woodturners Association Inc
Area Served: Alaska
Meeting City: Anchorage
Meeting State: AK
Meeting Place: 11361 Mael
Meeting Date: 1st Saturday Sept - May
Number of Members: 117
Chapter Web Site: www.Akwoodturners.org (http://www.akwoodturners.org/)
Contact:
Bill Poole
2421 Sues Way
Anchorage, AK 99516
907-344-0775
bill@alaskawoodcrafters.com

Well, almost; except this is the wrong months of the year. I suggest you still try to contact them and see whether you can find someone who is willing to give you some hands-on. It would definitely shorten your learning curve.

Gordon

[lark leazar]

I wish I'd found the LV individual tools that you show, I just started myself. I'd probably order a roughing gouge, spindle gouge and parting tool there and practice with these for awhile. I ordered this set http://grizzly.com/products/6-pc-HSS-Lathe-Chisel-Set/H5978 and I'm pleased with them, except I didn't look closely and it has only bowl gouges, no spindle gouges. I was pretty cautious about spending a lot of money especially until I learn the sharpening. SOme would recommend that you buy handle-less tools and make your own handles, but you have have something to make the first handle!

[Larry Rupert]

I bought the HF set of HSS tools, like a lot of people here. The price is very reasonable, they do a pretty good job, and I figured it was a good (cheap) way of learning to sharpen without screwing up a tool that cost as much as this whole set of tools did. Think about it, if nothing else, down the road, they can be reground into tools you use now and then for "special" purposes. Larry

[Steve Schlumpf]

I have to agree with Larry! I picked up the Harbor Freight tool set when I first started out and still use them! Great starter tools, HSS and if you screw up an edge while learning how to sharpen its no big deal! In addition to the tools you will also need a means to sharpen them, dust protection, chuck, etc!!! Welcome to the vortex - looking forward to seeing the pics of your new lathe when it arrives!

[Jim Becker]

Just remember that the HFT set (and so many sets) are spindle turning oriented. Great for learning to cut between centers, but you'll also need an appropriate bowl gouge for that kind of work. You also need safety glasses and a full face shield and a way to sharpen your tools...including when you receive them. They are not usable "out of the box".

[jonathan snyder]

Thanks folks.

I will check out the AK woodturners club. I had no idea there was such a thing. No Harbor Freight locally, so if I buy sight unseen, I prefer to buy from someplace like LV with a reputation and a return policy I trust. I think my Grandpa, has a set of Grizzly lathe tools. I'll have to ask him about them. I usually hang out in Neanderthal Haven, and use a fair amount of hand tools. I can sharpen a smoothing plane iron, so I can probably handle lathe tools. I have a Delta slow speed wet grinder, and a dry bench grinder with a cool wheel. I assume these will handle lathe tools.

No book recommendations? I need something to read while I wait for the lathe.

Jonathan

[Gordon Seto]

Thanks folks.

No Harbor Freight locally, so if I buy sight unseen, I prefer to buy from someplace like LV with a reputation and a return policy I trust.

No book recommendations?

Jonathan

HF may not have good reputation on quality, but their reputation on service and return policy are not too bad considering their price.

Most likely your local club would have a library of books and videos for members to borrow for free.

Check out Oneway, Sorby web sites, they have short videos for download for free. YouTube also have some good videos (along with some bad).

Gordon

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Thanks folks.

No book recommendations? I need something to read while I wait for the lathe.

Jonathan


Jonathan...Congrats on the lathe.

Book:.....Woodturning - A Foundation Course by Keith Rowley. I have this book and keep it handy. It's gone to the shop with me when I thought I might need a quick reference. It's aimed at the beginning turner and contains a wealth of information!

[jonathan snyder]

Gordon, I have never been in a Harbor Freight store or even seen a catalog. I will check out the club and the web sites you mentioned.

Ken, thanks for the book recommendation. The local Barnes & Nobel has one, on the way, and it is now reserved for me!:D

Jonathan

[Paul Heely]

I'll second the Rowley book. The other set of books that I seem to go back to over and over is Richard Raffan's Turning Guide. Its a box set with Turning Wood, Turning Boxes and Turning Bowls.

[Benjamin Dahl]

I also agree about the Rowley book. You might also want to look for "Woodturning-Two Books in One" by Phil Irons. A friend gave it to me recently and I have found it to be helpful as it is dedicated to projects and techniques. If they have it at B&N, you might want to give it a browse.
Ben

[Barry Stratton]

Jonathan,

The best advice anyone can give you is here:

Alaska Woodturners Association Inc
Area Served: Alaska
Meeting City: Anchorage
Meeting State: AK
Meeting Place: 11361 Mael
Meeting Date: 1st Saturday Sept - May
Number of Members: 117
Chapter Web Site: www.Akwoodturners.org (http://www.akwoodturners.org/)
Contact:
Bill Poole
2421 Sues Way
Anchorage, AK 99516
907-344-0775
bill@alaskawoodcrafters.com

Well, almost; except this is the wrong months of the year. I suggest you still try to contact them and see whether you can find someone who is willing to give you some hands-on. It would definitely shorten your learning curve.

Gordon

And when you call Bill Poole, tell him YOU are the guy who gave Barry who gave AWA all that awesome spalted choke cherry. YOU will be VERY welcome!!!!

Congrats on the soon to arrive toy.

For books, Richard Raffin or Rowley have great ones. Bill Grumbine has excellent video's.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Raffan's video's and his Turning Guide as has been said are very good. Rowley's is excellent and Bill Grumbines DVD on Turned Bowls made Easy is excellent. Congrats on the new lathe.

[Ben Gastfriend]

I might add...

If you're considering bowl turning of any shape or form... get yourself a bowl gouge. Even if it's a cheap one (PSI 19.95) you'll be glad you did when you mound a chunck of wood on the lathe and proceed to attempt to make a bowl with a spindle gouge. (Please also don't use a roughing gouge on bowls... they're not meant to extend over the tool rest that far... catch! Clang! Crack! Ouch! Awww man! I bent my roughing gouge in half!)

I'd have to agree that the basic tools you'll need are a roughing gouge, spindle gouge, skew, parting tool, and scraper. Good luck.

[Curt Fuller]

Jonathon, Craftsupplies http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/ currently has their Henry Taylor tools on sale for 25% off until the end of the year. The Lee Valley set you posted is made by Henry Taylor. They're excellent tools imho but I think you would get more use from a few tools not in the set. If I were buying a "set" now knowing what I've learned from turning for a few years I'd buy..

1/2" bowl gouge
3/8" spindle gouge
3/4" skew
3/16" parting tool
1/2" square scraper
1/2" round nose scraper

You'll want more specialty tools as you get into turning more things, but there aren't many things that can't be done with that basic set of tools. And with the exception of the two gouges that seem to need sharpening more than most other tools, those tools will last most of a lifetime.

Sharpening will be one of the biggest keys to your success and satisfaction in woodturning. I'd also get or make a good sharpening jig. The post about the turning clubs was a great idea and a good place to learn the art of sharpening the tools. You can turn wood with a screwdrive if you sharpen it correctly, but you can't turn much of anything even with the finest tools if you can't get them sharp.

Good luck!

[jonathan snyder]

Curt,

Thanks for the link. With the discount, those look like great prices.

I'm not familiar with the uses of each tool yet. What are the scrapers used for? Is that final finishing similar to a card scraper for flat work?

I noticed you did not include a roughing gouge on your list, why not?

Do you have a recommendation on a sharpening jig? I have seen a few shop made jig on the net, I may go that rout. I have a delta slow speed wet grinder, and a 6" bench grinder with a cool wheel. I use both for shaping plane irons and chisels.

Thanks Again.
JOnathan

[Dean Thomas]

I bought the HF set of HSS tools, like a lot of people here. The price is very reasonable, they do a pretty good job, and I figured it was a good (cheap) way of learning to sharpen without screwing up a tool that cost as much as this whole set of tools did.
I think Larry is spot on. I usually don't recommend ANY of HF's cutting tools or "precision" tools, but the HSS set of 8 regularly goes on sale for about $35 and if you get a 10% off coupon, even better. These tools are long enough to sharpen over and over (you can get cheaper tools, but they're all stunted and you may not be able to sharpen them for very long. 2" flutes are a PITB). And as already stated, one of Doug Thompson's great 3/8" spindle gouges costs $35! Get those, learn what you like and then get better quality tools for what you really want to do.

DON'T skimp on sharpening, though. Get a good grinder with good wheels and buy or make an acceptable sharpening system. Especially as a novice, you really need to be able to sharpen tools easily and reliably. Wolverine will pay for itself in not wasting away your steel tools.

Don't forget to check with your library about videos and books. Anything with Richard Raffan's name on it is a good thing. I still like Bonnie Klein's videos for beginners, too, especially the first three of her five. There are lots of good materials out there. If you're close enough to be involved with the AAW chapter up there, they probably have a lending library. You might even be able to join "long distance" and still use their library. Worth a thought for those long Alaska winters...

[Curt Fuller]

I'm not familiar with the uses of each tool yet. What are the scrapers used for? Is that final finishing similar to a card scraper for flat work?

I noticed you did not include a roughing gouge on your list, why not?

Do you have a recommendation on a sharpening jig?

I think everyone learns to use different tools for different reasons. I use a round scraper to make the last few shearing cuts on the inside of bowls. Once you get the hang of it you can eliminate a lot of sanding. A square scraper can be used similarly on the outside of bowls and also for boxes or anything that you want a square corner in the bottom.

As for roughing gouges, again this is not a rule but just a personal preference. Unless I'm rounding a long square piece of spindle work, I've found that a bowl gouge works just as well for roughing. Most roughing gouges have a flimsy shank so they can break when roughing a bowl blank or anything very irregular or out of round. They should be named 'spindle roughing gouges'. But then again, some people have good luck with them and I've even heard of some turning pens, start to finish, with a 1" roughing gouge.

For sharpening, most people seem to love their oneway wolverine setups. I use a home made jig similar to that. Again, you'll get used to what you have and learn to get the most from it.

[jonathan snyder]

Hi folks,

A number of you have recommended getting inexpensive lathe tools to start out with. It seems the reason being,that if you mess one up while learning to sharpen, it's not such a big deal. I understand that, but the most expensive tools I have ever bought are the ones I bought twice (an inexpensive one and then an expensive one to replace the cheapie, I should have passed on the first time around).

Is sharpening lathe tools really all that difficult? I have experience grinding plane irons and chisels. I'm really leaning toward buying quality tools once. What do you folks think? How many of you ruined tools while learning to sharpen?

I realize a jig in probably necessary for the beginner. I'm looking at the wolverine. It's on sale at Hartville tool.

Thanks
Jonathan

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jonathan,

The difficult part of sharpening turning tools is 2 fold.....1) getting them sharp and 2) maintaining the form/shape/bevel.

Most people, myself included, find sharpening a learning process just like turning is a learning process. If you are trying to learn to sharpen and turn at the sametime it could really be a challenge and discouraging. The Wolverine jig system will help shorten the sharpening learning curve.

The price of 1 good tool, can buy you a set of HSS HF tools that will have everything a beginner needs except the bowl gouge. When you consider a good tool will run you from $40-109.......$38 on a HF set....cheap insurance you know how to sharpen before you try it on a single tool that costs as much as the set.

[Gordon Seto]

The cheap HF set is only averaging $4 a piece. You can't buy steel blanks at that price. Later when you really know what you want (not what others are using now), you can decide for yourself. Then you can convert some of the HF tools to special scrapers, like dovetail scraper. You have no wastage.

There are a lot of ways trying to achieve the same goal. Some people use their bowl gouge as scraping, as well as shear scraping.

Don't rush into buying tools until you know what your interests are.

Gordon

[Dean Thomas]

Jonathan, your logic is sound and reasonable, but Gordon & Ken have given you the main reasons why I'd still recommend going with the HSS set from HF. And I'll add a couple more reasons:

Most of us like to play with angles to find out what works and what doesn't. Reasonable quality tools for under $5 (a little more for you since Anchorage does not have a HF) do NOT have a guilt factor when it comes to learning curves and sharpening. Getting the bevels with a Wolverine is one thing, but getting the wings even and the nose nicely shaped and not pointy is not something that comes naturally or even easy for some of us! In the learning curves of various folks (me included), I can remember seeing a few side profiles of fingernail gouges that came to a point in front and that had an ogee curve on the wing! NOT GOOD FORM! :) And sometimes those errors are boogers to get rid of until you "get it" and then you can fix things. You've wasted less than the cost of a decent drill bit on tool steel to learn the process. That's a deal, IMHO.

And the second major reason (I don't think anyone mentioned it in this thread) is that once you buy better tools, you're going to come across some form or another where you'll want a tool with a special shape. If you only have your high quality tools, you're going to be less likely to want to mess with your successfully shaped tool for a one-of situation. If you have some cheapies (HSS or even some of the older carbon steel cheapies, like less than a buck a tool!), you can grind away happilly, again with no guilt or recrimination, and preserve the shape and angle of the tools in your main arsenal.

Heck, just for the last two months worth of pens and Christmas projects, I reground at least 3 or 4 tools for special shapes that made life easier. I would have done things the hard way had I only the good tools. That's the real reason for having the drawer full of cheap, lower quality tools. ;)

Again, one man's opinions and experiences. YMMV.

[jonathan snyder]

Thanks folks.

I read a few other threads, and everyone seems to recommend the HF tools for a first set, so you convinced me. Is this the set (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47066)?

Thanks
Jonathan

[Gordon Seto]

They have 2 sets. The other set is red handle (same 8 tools) which sells for around $50. A lot of people say the red handle set is better. I have both, I can't honestly tell you one is better or worse than the other. May be they don't have very tight quality control on standards; I got lucky on my cheap set. The only difference I can see is the handles are painted and the box has some sort of fake velvet lining on the expensive set.

Just as Dean said, if I have to buy a dovetail scraper for my chuck, it would cost me at least $20. One converted tool paid for half of the set already.

Gordon

[robert hainstock]

I've been dealing with HF for over tweny years, and have always found them to be most fair to their customers. for instance when a rechargeble patio light did not work (1 of 6) I sent it back, and recieved a whole new set. I have some of their hss tools, and my favorite is a 1 1/4 in spindle gauge that I modified to a roughing gauge. It holds an edge for an incredibly long time. They are a cheap place to start your learning curve. The scraper IS used like the flat cabinet scraper and the final sharpening act as with the cabinet scraper should be to burnishe the tool as you would a cabinet scraper.:D
Bob

[jonathan snyder]

Al right folks, now that you have sold me on a set of tools, lets talk sharpening.

I plan to get the wolverine jig (http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/10795), with the vari-grind attachment, as Hartville Tool has it on sale.

I have a cool wheel, set up with the veritas tool rest, which I use on plane irons and chisels. I want to get another wheel to dedicate to the wolverine jig for the turning tools.

What grit wheel do you recommend? Hartville (http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/10846) has 46, 60, 80, 100, 120 in 3X cool wheels and 60 or 150 in aluminum oxide.

As I understand it, most folks use lathe tools right off the grinder, is that true? If so I assume I want a higher grit wheel.

Any recommendations?

Thanks
JOnathan

[Gordon Seto]

The Cadillac of all grinding wheel (the Norton SG wheels) for turning tools comes in 46 & 80 grits. The 80 is fine enough. The hardness of the wheel is more important.

Gordon

[Dean Thomas]

I use the white wheels. They do come out of the box pretty darned true. Don't know if I've ever used the blue wheels or not.

You will need a dressing tool for ANY wheels you get, and you'll need to use it regularly.

Different name turners recommend different grits; most do not grind below 60 except for lawn mower blades and really, really coarse roughing into shape (like taking the wings off a very standard vertical blunt cut bowl gouge. Oneway recommends two wheels, an 80 and a 120 grit, and suggests that the tools are usable right off the wheels. That's how I do it. The only tool that I hone is the skew. A couple of licks with a diamond hone right where I'm standing is much better than walking to the grinder, and you can do a good many "couple of licks" until you just have to resharpen, in my own experience. As you get to know the AAW chapter there, ask to borrow the sharpening video from a couple of years ago and you'll get three opinions about how to sharpen and what grits to use. Hard to believe, three turners and three opinions. :rolleyes:

And you know that the opinions will vary. That's a good thing. Best thing is to pick one "process" that's not expensive and see if it works for you. If it does, you're good. If you feel as though you need to add to it, you certainly can.

As I understand it, production turners sharpen and never hone. That's not just about speed, it's about learning to sharpen and learning to use sharp tools to keep from sanding. And they may not be using their own tools, either, unless they are in their own shop. If you turn at a factory, do they provide you with tools, too?? I wonder...