How small is small?

[Brian Sherman]

I'm just starting to put together my first shop. It's 16x18. The only tools I have so far are a CMS and a Ridgid TS2400 portable table saw. (Black Friday rocked!)

I have the opportunity to buy a nicely maintained, 25 year old Shopsmith 510 with Bandsaw, jointer, and belt sander for $1200.

But for this price, I could get a new dedicated jointer, sander and a 14" bandsaw.

I'm worried about crowding myself. At what point is a shop small enough where I should start considering a Shopsmith instead of dedicated machines?

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Once long ago I was tempted to get a shopsmith. I never regretted not going for it.

Many people make machine and hand tool decisions based on affordability and end up replacing 'em or just living with what they later consider to have been a unfortunate decision

[Norman Pyles]

Welcome to the creek.

[Gary Keedwell]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/evsac/Video/ranchwelcome.gifHi Brian, welcome to the Creek.

Gary

[Lee Schierer]

Brian Welcome!

Before I purchased my table saw I considered buying a Shop Smith. I went to several Shop Smith demos and watched them make simple projects that demonstrated the various features and options. What I came away with was the fact that the demos were well planned and they did every thing in a perfect sequence so they never had to repeat a setup. It occurred to me that in my style of woodworking and skill level that my projects weren't all that well planned out. I realized that they spent nearly as much time converting from one mode to the next as they did making parts. I also wondered about the wisdom of a custom device with one motor to run everything. The width of the table was a bit narrow for working with sheets or large pieces of material. The price new was a bit daunting too.

In the long run I decided to get a dedicated table saw, then when I could afford it I bought a band saw. I was lucky enough to inherit a jointer. I don't regret the decision.

Your mileage may vary.

[Chris Barnett]

Went to a demo years back on Shopsmith. Glad I never bit on that one!

[Don Bullock]

First of all, welcome to Sawmill Creek. You'll find the people here are great.

Years ago I owned a ShopSmith. My wife inherited it from an uncle because I was the only one in the family that could use it. I must say that it was an interesting machine. I found it difficult to change from one function to another. If it was set up as a table saw, I'd suddenly decide that I needed it for a drill press. That all lasted just a few days. Fortunately my father didn't live too far from us, so when I needed a drill press it was easier and quicker to drive over to his house. The only thing that I found the ShopSmith useful for was a lathe. I used it for that purpose for several years. As for it being compact, that's a myth. When it's set up as any tool there is always the horizontal frame of the tool sitting on a stand or as in my case attached to a low table. Today I have at least three of my tools in approximately the same floor space. They are all on wheels, so my use of the space is very flexible. For me, that's the best way to go.

[glenn bradley]

Welcome. Pass on the ShopSmith. They look great while you're watching the demo but in the real world your workflow may not follow their easy machine-change to machine-change pattern. If you already had one, they can be useful but I wouldn't go out and buy one. You're right that for a few hundred more you could get a couple real tools that you'll have for years if not forever. IMHO.

[keith ouellette]

I had a five piece combo that was a little more advanced than the shop smith and found changing stations was no where as easy as the demo made it seem. There is nothing better than needing to dimension a practice board and not have to put on a fence, adjust, face joint, reset, plane, reset and put on a fence, edge joint move everything and cut to size. God forbid you need a second one.
My shop is 18 x 24 and i won't lie. I think its to small. If you keep everything on wheels and put you band saw, drill press , planer and other easy to wheel things in a corner or lined against the wall you will find it easier to roll them out when you need them than you would changing stations on a shop smith.
A european wood worker I talked to said a big workshop in england was 10X10. A combo is a must for that.

[Bob Feeser]

The key to crammed quarters are mobile bases. You can slide your machinery up against one wall, and pull out what you need. I did that, here was my shop. http://inlinethumb10.webshots.com/36297/2839347080100733997S600x600Q85.jpg
Then the big open room alongside of it became unimportant, so I blew the wall out and made a much larger shop out of it.
Pertaining to the shopsmith, I never owned one, but saw one in action, and a very expensive German knock off at a show. I left with the impression that it was a lot of work to keep making changes. Ideally getting a tool set up, and being able to use it repeatedly is a real time saver. Having to knock down, and set up is worse then having to roll a machine out, plug it in, hook up the dust collection, and make a cut. Put it away, break out the router, do the same, then realize you need the first machine again... you get the idea. It is a way of getting around the space constraints, and you can make it work. If you have a larger room to expand into it is worth it. Nothing beats having permanent stations, and being able to just go over and flick a switch.

[Michael Gibbons]

For $1,200 bucks you could build a nice long bench in your shop room and buy a nice collection of table top machines and porbably have some cash left over for materials and maybe some small hand tools and such.. for what it's worth...


............Mike

[gary Zimmel]

Brian

Welcome to the Creek...

Let us know how how the new shop is comming along.

[Lewis DeJoseph]

Hi All,

The is my first post here. I too am just setting up my shop, in my basement. In fact I'm picking up my table saw tomorrow. Seems to me that you have a decent amount of space. Mine is an L shape and at its widest is 22' and 40 long but at its narrowest is 11'. So you make due with what you have.

Good luck

Lewis

[Rick Gifford]

Mr Feeser has the answer to small areas. My shop is only 11X20 and I am limited in the amount of large machinery for sure. But its still better than the 6X7 room I had in the basment for years.

Move machines out of your way and the one you need into the center. You can keep away from the Shopsmith necessity that way.

I will add the photo Bob posted of his area makes mine look roomy :eek: lol! He's my new cramped workspace hero!

[Tim Marks]

I'm just starting to put together my first shop. It's 16x18.
You have plenty of room in that size for seperate machines. I cram all the essentials into 11x20: Contractor TS (with router on the wing), 6" jointer, planer, edge sander, DP, BS, HFDC, work table, horizontal 4x6 BS, CMS on stand. Mobile bases are the key, and you figure out things like half of the jointer will slide easily underneath the wing of the TS. Play around with the "dream workshop" link on the grizzly website to see how you can make everything fit!.

I am working on moving stuff around to let me cram a mill and lathe in as well!

My general (lazy) philospohy is that I have to spend time to setup a tool before I use it, then in all reality I will just end up sitting on my fat duff in a lazy boy because it is too much work and I don't have enough time. But if I can run downstairs, immeidately start slicing wood, then now I can actually squeeze in a little work in the available hour or half hour that presents itself.

[Bill Huber]

Welcome to the Creek, its a great place to learn a lot from some very talented people.

On the shop:
I wish mine was that big, I have a 12x16 now I am not going to be making a lot of large bookcases in it but it does be fine for the small things I work with.
I agree with the other is pass on the Shopsmith, its to big and to hard to switch tools.
It has been said one of the main things is mobile bases and flip stands. My saw is on a mobile base and I can move it back when not using it. My planer is on a flip mobile base and goes right under my bench and pulls out and flips up when I need it.
In my little shop, 12x16 I have a table saw, a big router table, floor stand drill press, a small jointer, CMS, metal cutting band saw, 6 inch disk/belt sander, oscillating edge/spindle sander. bench grinder, 2 shop vacs and shelves and cabinets to keep all the power tools in and place to store things so it can be done.
I will say I do the first cuts of sheet goods in the garage and cut long boards down there also but the space I have has worked very well for me.

[Michael Gibbons]

You got me wondering, so I went downstairs to measure my space. It's 12'6" X 21'. The only benchtop machine I have is the 6" Delta jointer. Other than that it's all full size stuff: Unisaw w/ 52" fence, 14 bandsaw,16 1/2 drill press,Ridgid lathe, 13' planer, 2' X 3' router table and workbench. I probably could expand by repositioning my treadmill and bike but thats too much work. I have enough room in front of the TS to handle full sheet goods. I also have a JDS 1 1/2 hp DC.

[Brian Sherman]

Michael, how do you like your benchtop planer?

[Brian Sherman]

Wow, thanks to everybody for the warm welcome and advice.

It looks like the consensus is to pass up the Shopsmith.

I don't have a relative or contact that I'm picking up woodworking from. It's just me and the web-books-magazines. So, this is a great help. I've built a few things but it's been like --back the car out--get out the sawhorses and circular saw--and use a screwdriver as a chisel.

I'm not in a hurry as I still have plenty to do renovating the space and re-wiring.

It looks like benchtop models for the DP, Planer, and sander would get me started.
For the BS I could get started with my hand held jigsaw.

I'm not so sure what to do about the jointer. I've read about several ways to substitute for a jointer. (Planer sled, router table, table saw). Maybe I should start a new topic on these vs. a bench jointer.

[Michael Gibbons]

Brian, Sorry i didn't say welcome-so WELCOME!! I have the 6" delta bechtop jointer. It does what needs to get done though the chip chute would work much better if i got around to getting the DC hose adapter. Gets clogged up after a few passes. The delta 13" planer is great. I DO have the DC adpter on that and always hook it up to the collector. I have the planer on a Shop Fox stand that I bought at Woodcraft. The jointer is placed on the extension table of my table saw when needed. If I remember correctly, the jointer cost $ 200 or so at the Borg when they were still selling Delta. It's about 24" long and weighs about 35lbs. Hope the info helps. By the way, I'm learning as I go along also. Take your time and upgrade as finances allow. IT'S all about the tools