Woodworking for a living???

[Kevin Proaper]

Is it possiable to sustain a family and make a living these days with a cabinet shop.
I live in upstate NY, lord knows NY is not the best climate to try and make living doing anything as an independent owner.
Just thought I would ask to see who out there is doing well at it.

Thanks for any advise,
Kevin

[Gary Keedwell]

Is it possiable to sustain a family and make a living these days with a cabinet shop.
I live in upstate NY, lord knows NY is not the best climate to try and make living doing anything as an independent owner.
Just thought I would ask to see who out there is doing well at it.

Thanks for any advise,
Kevin
I always remember this article I read during the recession of the early 90's. This guy did high end work but his secret was that he used to travel every day to this ritzy section of a town about an hour drive from where he lived. He would do a kitchen over real nice and the rich people's friends would see it and ask who did it. Well, to make a long story short, he had a waiting list for over a year's work. Each friend tried to out do the one before...he said it was crazy how competitive these 'well- to- do' people are of each other.:)
Gary

[Jim Becker]

I believe it is possible to do so--depending on what your expectations are and with caveats. You need to be able to differentiate yourself from others in the same area and/or get yourself hooked up with a custom builder so you have a steady stream of business. You also need to pick your battles...that may include buying components that you can certainly make, but at a major cost in time. "Commodity" things like drawer boxes, for example.

Make sure you have enough money to feed your family (from other's work and from savings) for at a minimum a year as you build your business. Make sure they understand that you'll be working very hard and more than they might like...running a business is a lifestyle, not a career. Watch your costs, but don't be stingy and buy bad materials. Use a computer to track your costs...Quickbooks or similar is not optional for any small business these days. You need to know where you stand each and every day.

And...you need to be able to know when to walk away from business, too. Doing good business is how you grow your own and get those lucrative referrals. That's what Gary is referring to...very important! If you're chasing "bad business" (those customers who want it all for too little and throw in a lot of complaints for extra measure) you have no time to develop your skills, market yourself and do the quality work you need to do.

My cabinetmaker neighbor who does outstanding work found it necessary to combine his business with another local cabinetmaker/craftsman in order to stay in the hunt. Even with all the growth around here, there is still extreme competition for high-end work and that's their bread and butter. It's taken both of them to be able to deliver on-time at the extreme demands the work requires. For him, it's worked out well, but not everyone can "share" a business.

[Chris Padilla]

"Dying ain't much of a livin', Boy" Josey Whales http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL9HsfGJ5c4

Sorry, that line hit me when I read the subject line. From what I can tell, ww'ing is tough to make a livin' in these days with our "throw-away" society and Ikea particle-board cabinets. You need to get your name out there and have people able to see your work. Good luck to you!!

[Pat Germain]

It seems most contractors stay in business these days by being crooks. I would think one could do well simply by doing quality work for a fair price; an apparent rarity. I admit I've never owned my own business, so I don't know.

Many people renovate their homes, especially kitchens, with home equity loans. Since those are getting hard to come by lately, now probably wouldn't be the best time to jump into the business.

I'm sure a lot of contractors would like to do work for the very well-off. The problem is, you can't show up to an upscale neighborhood with a crew who look like they just finished fighting at Gettysburg. This eliminates almost every contractor crew I've ever seen.

I recall reading Norm's advice about contractors in his book, "Measure Twice, Cut Once" as well as the book about building his house. He put great emphasis on examining a contractor's truck. If it was a mess and poorly maintained, he said those are very bad signs. If a contractor's truck is clean and well maintained, it's very likely he will be a good contractor. That's Norm's advice, anyway.

Anyone up for an ostrich farm or alpaca ranch?

[Lee Schierer]

Remember as the sole proprietor you are the salesman and the cabinet maker. If you are making cabinets you aren't selling and if you are selling you aren't making cabinets. Balancing the two will be the secret to success. Until you learn to balance the two it will be feast and famine.

Beware of potential customers who compare your prices to Wally world. Just say thanks and walk away....

I agree with Jim you have to know when to walk away from a job.

[Gary Keedwell]

The problem is, you can't show up to an upscale neighborhood with a crew who look like they just finished fighting at Gettysburg. This eliminates almost every contractor crew I've ever seen.





ROTFLMFAO I don't know why...but that image just cracked me up:D

Gary

[Todd Burch]

It's absolutely possible.

I, however, failed at it. In the ~24 months I did it for a living between 2002 and 2004, I had a genuine "what I really needed to make" profit for 2 of the ~24 months.

My business model was all wrong. I was a sole proprieter. I was chief cook and bottle washer. When I was going to the finishing store, or lumber yard, or doing an on estimate, or writing a bid, or paying the bills, no one was in the shop making stuff, or delivering, or installing, or finishing, or dressing lumber. Have you figured this one out yet?

How fast are you? I determined while being self employed that I was slow. I did FANTASTIC work, and NEVER got a callback, but I was as slow as molasses. Slow is not a viable pace. You HAVE to be fast. I don't care if you make heirlooms or crap, price you work HIGH or LOW... if you are slow - you will die.

Going after the ritzy crowd is fine. I had several ritzy customers. They pay insanely high prices and blab to all their friends about your work, and were the most impatient and demanding of all the clients I had.

Do a business plan if you are serious. Get the capital you need to live at the standard of living you want to live at.

Todd (just getting out of debt 3 years later).

[Mitchell Andrus]

Find a niche and fill it well. I started 11 years ago and was busy full time in 6 months... haven't looked back.

[Pat Germain]

ROTFLMFAO I don't know why...but that image just cracked me up:D

Gary

I'm always happy to make someone laugh, Gary. Glad you found it funny.;)

This thread is interesting because for many years I was under the impression it was impossible to make a living as a fine woodworker. By this I mean I thought only people who cranked out low-grade stuff with a steep markup could rake in enough dough to make it worthwhile. In fact, I remember multiple experienced woodworkers telling me when it comes to fine furniture, people won't pay what it's worth. As Humphrey Bogart said in Casablanca when explaining he was there for the waters, "I was misinformed".

Since I've been lurking SMC I've learned, among many other things, there are in fact a good number of folks making a decent living as woodworkers. It seems cabinetry is a core of the business, but I've also seen for-profit furniture projects. While I don't personally plan to make a living at woodworking, it's encouraging to hear, albeit difficult, some people are doing just that.

One of my coworkers recently got a bid for renovating his kitchen. As I recall, the final cost was $70,000 and that didn't include any of the appliances. I kept telling him, "Dude, I'll do it for half that!". My coworker told that contractor to take a hike and decided to put off the renovation. Shoot, I guess if only a few people accept that kind of bid, you could easily make a living at it.

[Dennis Peacock]

In addition to what Todd and Jim have already stated.....Location and Economy around your location also plays a big part of how well you will succeed.

This is Dennis - Not there yet....but give me 10 more years. :)

[jud dinsmore]

kevin,

jim tolpin's "guide to becoming a professional cabinetmaker" is an interesting read. he says in there somewhere that he was more interested in becoming a fine furniture maker but cabinets are how he puts food on the table. i suspect this is still the case with most furniture/cabinet makers. once you develop a reputation and, more importantly, a stead work load you can begin to pick and choose your jobs. i'm temporarly working for a countertop man. his business is himself and one not-very-skilled employee (i'm subbing for him). he makes laminate countertops, and occassionally, laminate cabinets. he's got a smallish shop (1600 sf) and minimum tools, and makes on average $75k/year. he's been doing this for many, many years, has a ton of sources of work, and produces a great product. he's fairly quick and definately has a system. laminate countertops aren't by any means fine furniture but $75k is a pretty decent living. i also install factory cabinets (occassionally as well) and when i do i'm average $35-$50/hr. on the job. now this doesn't take into consideration any overhead (insurance, gas, employment tax, business license, advertising, depreciation, etc.) but as a home builder, you can make a pretty decent living in just about all of the trades. if you're willing to get out of bed and work everyday then you can earn an even better living. i know this isn't furniture building but you could probably do a little of both until the furniture business takes off. you could also moonlight the furniture bit until business is stead enough to quit your current employment. this would let you try it out before jumping in full time. good luck and i hope you are successful.



pat,

since i'm a home builder and generally classified as a "contractor", i would greatly appreciate it if you would be kinder in your stereotypically descriptions of contractors. i completely agree that, aside from elected officials, our group probably has the greatest ratio of bad guys to good. however, not every contractor is a dirtbag (as you implied). your vague example of your buddy's kitchen remodel seems to further drive this point. $70k for a "kitchen remodel"? just what does this include? "qualified remodeler", a trade magazine, gives annual rewards to different remodeling contractors around the u.s. i think kitchens are broken down into three catagories, over $200k, under $100k, and under $50k. given those catagories your friends $70k estimate seems resonable.

unfortunately, most people don't want to pay for any type of quality, and are definately not interested in paying for service. so they go with the low bidder, who, as we all know he will, screws the job up. as you said you would "do it for half", you probably don't have enough job experience to know what you are getting yourself into and would be disappointed with the agreed upon payment. this isn't a personal attack, but there is just a lot more to renovating work than you know. i'm hoping that the general consensus is moving towards paying for higher quality work and service but who knows.

as for chosing a contractor, please take some time to educate yourself on the process your about to undertake and get references from friends. a lot of people spend a ton of time researching and reading reviews for major (car, flat panel tv, tools, etc.) purchases but don't do the same when selecting a contractor. home improvement companies aren't commodies but that way of thinking seems to be the driving force behind their selection ("they're all the same, let's go with the lowest price"). while this practice works best for buying gasoline, you're only setting yourself up if using this method to select a contractor.



jud

[keith ouellette]

I know some one who just moved into my area. He made a good living doing custom builds and trim where he was but since the move has not been able to get any traction. I run a small gardening business. Its just me doing the work and the sales and the repairs. With out some one pitching the business and getting the work other than the guy doing the work its real hard. Someone above me said something about speed. I used to be fast. I used to do a lot of painting on the side in the winter. I was very fast and made money.
Perfection is great but speed makes money and if your doing custom work you will have to be fast and perfect. Its a hard combination.
Do a little on the side first.

[Steve Kubien]

You have to be able to sell. Yes, you need to be good with your tools, produce quality work and have some business savvy but, if you can't sell you are out of business.

I know I have NO chance of making it as a full-time cabinet maker. I'm too slow and their are others who can do better work than I. I do alright but I am no Krenov.

A thorough business plan, one which you could take to a bank and get a $100,000 loan with is not optional. It is just as important as your tools. Without it, you are flying blind and no matter how good your work is, you will crash.

Sorry to be blunt about this but sugar-coating seems pointless. Take it for what it's worth.

Steve Kubien
Ajax, Ontario

[Gary Keedwell]

My question is why would anybody want to spoil a great hobby by trying to make a living off it. What would you do for a hobby after you get sick of doing it all day long?
Gary

[Craig D Peltier]

I do this for a living for now. I get much enjoyment out of it especially as time goes on and I have done something at least once.
One thing thats hard to do is, finding time to bid, then design,then make a cut list, then go buy wood, then mill, then joinery, assembly, finish and deliver. It takes alot fo time, rarely do I get a full day in shop. If you can have a line of things you build with plans and cut list ready to go that would be nice.
If we are talking kitchens and custom builts ins that wouldnt be possible to have cut list etc, plus I think theres lots of competition out there for that stuff (Kitchens thye usually bid)
Ive learned you cant make any money unless the job is at least 1500 to pay for your hourly rate. Alot of people see that throw away stuff and compare you to that. I quickly tell them i'm 3 times more than such and such big box store minimum, that shakes em off.
One thing that really urks me with woodworking is you cant charge enough. You have plumbers and electricians making alot of money and can easily support families and cars and houses.I think in our trade it takes so long to build a piece from finish to end that if we charged plumber rates every piece would be 3-8000.I dont believe in building furniture you can make much more than say 50k without tapping into a niche market that your charging alot for one piece and can produce 4 a month and sell them.
A friend of mine screwed into his buddies water pipe the other day on a saturday, plumber came out, cut a small piece of pipe out and soddered in a new one for 2 hours $450! Thats nuts, Id like to make that in a day.And he diidnt have any spinnign saw blades or kickbacks to deal with! Same with electricians , power is off. I dont get it.
So I personally think it will be a tough way to support a family and not work yourself ragged. If you can find a way to make a living that is just enought to support family and make pieces on the side for extra cash and for self satisfaction, wood therapy, that would be nice.I went from a high paying job to this and I miss the money but no having a boss.Thats my 2 cents.Hope it helps.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Gary, I did just that. 'Been a hobby from the age of 12. 6th grade shop teacher saw the spark, he knew. 11 years ago, at 39 I went 'pro'. Some days I'm so eager to get into the shop I forget to eat breakfast.

Most days, I forget it's how I earn a living.

[Greg Heppeard]

I'm just starting out on my own...I used to work in cabinet shops a few years ago, then went into small business management. I got tired of making money for other people. The only problem I'm having now is pricing my work. Any help would be appreciated in this area. I plan on taking one day a week (probably Thursday) to do marketing and computer work, Mon-Wed & Fri-Sat in shop....yup that's a 6 day week.

[Gary Keedwell]

Gary, I did just that. 'Been a hobby from the age of 12. 6th grade shop teacher saw the spark, he knew. 11 years ago, at 39 I went 'pro'. Some days I'm so eager to get into the shop I forget to eat breakfast.

Most days, I forget it's how I earn a living.
Mitchell...Good for you!! When someone can go to work every day and enjoy what he does...he is truely blessed.
That being said...I think your the exception and not the rule. Unfortunetly, when the average guy gets into business for himself , he has to wear too many hats to really enjoy his work. You are the boss, the main worker, the main salesman, bookkeeper etc.
I personally know of only a couple of guys that work from their own house and are happy and keep their collective heads above water. Both of these guys have one thing in common: their wives work and make good money and have insurance for the hubby and her. ( or him as case may be).
I could be wrong, but woodworkng idol D. Marks, from what I have been told, had an affluent wife to keep him going until he caught on and made his own way. ( Disclaimer: I only heard this about Mr. Marks, if I'm wrong ..I apologise and don't want to hijack this thread).
Needless to say, I don't think someone in his right mind, would quit his job if his wife and 5 kids needed his income and insurance benefits.:o
Gary

[Kevin Proaper]

Thanks for everyones input, very much.

[Pat Germain]

pat,

since i'm a home builder and generally classified as a "contractor", i would greatly appreciate it if you would be kinder in your stereotypically descriptions of contractors... your vague example of your buddy's kitchen remodel seems to further drive this point. $70k for a "kitchen remodel"? just what does this include? "qualified remodeler",
jud

Sorry Jud. I didn't mean to dis' you. It was all in good fun. I'm a defense contractor. Talk about being stereotyped! I just take it as part of the business. As you pointed out, many of your colleagues present a poor example. I'm well aware there are indeed honest contractors out there who do good work.

My coworker's kitchen remodel experience was a good example of how NOT to do business. The final estimate had no cost breakdowns whatsoever. For example, when asked how much of the estimate was for removing a wall, there was no answer. The contractor would only say things like, "Well, if you opt for oak cabinets instead of cherry, I can save you a couple of hundred dollars." He wouldn't say how much the cabinets were actually costing.

Considering the insane amount of Dilbert-like absurdity in today's corporate world, I can easily understand why people would want to do woodworking for a living. If I was just now getting into my line of work, I'd be looking hard for something else. Marc Spagnuolo (the Wood Whisperer guy) is a good example. He had a good paying job in bio-tech and absolutely hated it. He now does woodworking full time.

[Chris Padilla]

My question is why would anybody want to spoil a great hobby by trying to make a living off it. What would you do for a hobby after you get sick of doing it all day long?
Gary

This is PRECISELY how I see my woodworking addiction. Like most ww'ers, I enjoy working with my hands, using tools (tails and no tails), and making (hopefully) useful things.

I enjoy making special pieces for freinds (I normally only charge for materials) and family.

I enjoy working on my own house and fixing/improving/maintaining things. I recently repaired some ductwork under my house. Yeah, that is far from ww'ing but I got to use tools, I got to buy parts, and I did the work myself and feel good about it and feel like I did a good job and feel like I would do a better job than someone I may have hired. Yeah, it was a pain crawling around in dry/powdery dirt, stones, concrete chunks, bugs, cobwebs. My arms, legs, back, shoulders were red, bruised, sore, etc. In the end, it all felt great to have done something for me, my family, and my house. I derive a lot of satisfaction from that.

If I had to do all that for a living...I'm not sure I would feel anywhere remotely the same about it. One has a totally different perspective on things when one HAS TO do something over WANTING to do something.

I think it would be cool if I could make some "side money" in ww'ing but I don't anticipate doing that until I'm retired and I have a good 20-25 years to go before that and I hope my skills improve a lot by then! :)

Todd Burch, that was a good read from you! I had wondered how things were going for you as you seemed to be getting more into computer programming last I checked in a while ago. I guess if I think about it and look around, most of the ww'ing folks I know about are NOT one-man shows.

Where is Ian from England? I think he is a one-man show building his chairs over the pond...I'll try and point him to this thread.

[Craig D Peltier]

I'm just starting out on my own...I used to work in cabinet shops a few years ago, then went into small business management. I got tired of making money for other people. The only problem I'm having now is pricing my work. Any help would be appreciated in this area. I plan on taking one day a week (probably Thursday) to do marketing and computer work, Mon-Wed & Fri-Sat in shop....yup that's a 6 day week.

Try this link http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=30853

[Frank Orzehoski]

Is it possiable to sustain a family and make a living these days with a cabinet shop.
I live in upstate NY, lord knows NY is not the best climate to try and make living doing anything as an independent owner.
Just thought I would ask to see who out there is doing well at it.

Thanks for any advise,
Kevin

I think the posts so far have hit it on the head precisely. You should have another source of income besides your business to carry your personal bills. This will allow you to build up the business without hurting your personal finances, especially now with the tightning of lending standards for mortgages and cars. If you don't, I would be extremely leary of going into business whether woodworking or any other. The post about speed is dead on. You will need to find a production method that allows you to get your work completed quickly but also with quality. The consumer can already buy the shlep rock quality at the big retail discounters. You will also need to figure out how to sell, produce and buy supplies at the same time. This is not just a problem for a woodworking start up business but any start up. It may come to where you will have to hire someone. In my case I have friends that are either contractors or retired who help me out when I need it. Also look at your shop layout. Is it set up right for a production process. I am redifining mine (AGAIN!!!), it is a constant battle especially for a small at home shop. The only other advice I have is that if you have your personal finances covered, go for it and don't let the naysayers get you down. They are everywhere. "you will fail"", "you will cut your arm off" etc, etc. Even if you don't obtain your goal of having a succesful business in the long run, at least you have the satisfaction of giving it your best shot. If it doesn't work out drop back, punt, make it a hobby again and find another job. Like the one post said, it took the gentleman 3 years to get of debt but he did and has the satisfaction of knowing he tried. :):)

[jud dinsmore]

pat,

no big deal it was just hard to tell that you were poking fun.

price breakdowns are a tough subject for most contractors. typically, homeowners don't know all of the overhead costs associated with running a construction business and immediately covert their labor fees into a per hour rate. this usually upsets them because they're now thinking they're paying a (assumed uneducated, unkept crook) $50+/hr. also, they (homeowners) want to dicker over different material and labor costs (i can get this cheaper at hd or i do the painting). its all a bunch of headaches. most good guys won't deal with it. as for your friend, i would stress getting a complete and full description of all materials and work to be done prior to signing off.

jud

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,


Find a niche and fill it well. I started 11 years ago and was busy full time in 6 months... haven't looked back.
I have to agree 100%.


Many people renovate their homes, especially kitchens, with home equity loans. Since those are getting hard to come by lately, now probably wouldn't be the best time to jump into the business
I have to disagree a bit. Now is really the ideal time from that perspective.
Look at it this way. Since it's tougher to get that type of financing, the only ones that can qualify for it are the ones that have decent credit.
Decent credit = they pay their bills & pay them on time.
OTOH - if they aren't using an equity loan, then they (probably) have the means to pay for it from another source.

[Chris Padilla]

Where is Ian from England? I think he is a one-man show building his chairs over the pond...I'll try and point him to this thread.

Yes, I know I'm replying to myself...I have officially filled the two needs to be classified insane! :eek:

I got a reply from Ian Barley, a one-man show in England who churns out adirondack chairs. Here is what Ian had to say on this matter:


"It is possible to make a living as a one man band woodworking. I hear people say that they would lose the joy of doing it as a hobby, but for me I get all the fun of doing what I love and, because I am lucky, also get validation from people that what I do is worthwhile. I make a product rather than doing bespoke work like cabinets. That means that I don't have to get into estimating and bidding and changing specs and all the other things that eat time but people don't think that they should pay for. The other beauty of a product is that you can make in the slow times so that you have more to sell in the busy times. At the moment I have about 40% of the components that I will need for next years chairs on racking ready to be assembled when the orders come in. By the end of January that figure will be more like 70%. Selling a product rather than custom work gives me a lot more ability to manage my workload. I am absolutely sure that what Todd Burch says is a very accurate picture of the life of a one man cabinet shop. There is no way that I would be successful at that.

Whatever you do you need to realise that being it business as a woodworker brings exactly that order of priorities. You have to be in business first. Taxes, Insurance, Marketing, Accounting and all that other stuff is just as important as cutting timber. I am at best an average woodworker but I am an adequate businessman (I think) and most of the time that is much more important.

Since I have been doing this I have had product featured on TV four times, spoken about outdoor furniture on national radio, had my products featured in two books on design, been featured in editorial in 2 major national newspapers, supplied chairs for major show gardens at national gardening shows and recieved many positive comments from customers. In the preceeding 25 years of my career nobody ever felt so impressed with my work that they wanted to pick up the phone and thank me for what I had sold to them. To me personally, those phone calls are better than cash in the bank. But you need to be sure that there is enough money at the end of the day to meet family obligations.

After about seven years I make nearly as much as I did in my last job before I started. A couple of years ago I broke my ankle very severely and was unable to work for 6 months. Without my wifes income and a national health service that did a great job I would have gone belly up. Think carefully about how you would cope with the unexpected, Being a one man anything is a potentially dangerous position."

Good guy, that Ian Barley...wish we could get him back here on The Creek but that is a whole 'nuther episode!! :D

[Steve Clardy]

Yes, I know I'm replying to myself...I have officially filled the two needs to be classified insane! :eek:







How's Mom doing?

[Pat Germain]

Hello,

I have to disagree a bit. Now is really the ideal time from that perspective.
Look at it this way. Since it's tougher to get that type of financing, the only ones that can qualify for it are the ones that have decent credit.
Decent credit = they pay their bills & pay them on time.
OTOH - if they aren't using an equity loan, then they (probably) have the means to pay for it from another source.

I wasn't referring to people using sub-prime loans. Rather, many people dip into their home's equity to make improvements. When home prices were going steadily up and selling quickly, this made sense. You could borrow on some of the increased value of your home, enjoy whatever improvements you made and deduct the loan interest on your taxes. Then, once you sold it, you could often get back 100% or more on the improvements. Kitchen and bathroom renovations were particularly good about paying off big time when selling. Contractors who performed these services were in great demand.

Now, however, the housing market is in a slump everywhere outside of Las Vegas and southern Florida. Home values are flat or have gone down. Many people have little or no equity to borrow against. Thus, they're not renovating their kitchens and bathrooms like they used to and competition in the contracting business has to be tight these days. That's why I'm thinking now wouldn't be the best time to jump into it.

[Mitchell Andrus]

On the other hand, instead of moving to a better house, many will be fixing up their old ones.

Home Depot will report a rise in sales next year, watch.

[Pat Germain]

That's a very good point, Mitchell. I hope you're right.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello Pat,

I wasn't referring to people using sub-prime loans. Rather, many people dip into their home's equity to make improvements
Nor was I referring to the sub prime borrower.
Those people are "payment" buyers. As long as the monthly payment fit's close to their budget, that's all they are concerned with.
I refer to them as "tenners".
As long as something looks ok from "ten r' twelve feet", that all they care about.;)


Now, however, the housing market is in a slump everywhere outside of Las Vegas and southern Florida
That's exactly where the "tenner's" are!
Nevada and Florida are at the top of the foreclosure list.
Yes - there's "work" in those markets, but no pay.
The unfortunate side of things is the "tenner's" don't just get themselves into financial difficulty, they drag down everyone else.

The ones I referred to are the ones that have decent enough credit and ample equity - real equity, not the unreal inflated equity -in their home to qualify for an equity loan.
If you haven't applied for one in the last 18 months, let me tell you, it's tough to get one.
We had to go to three different banks a year ago before we found one that would work with us.

Going back to the "tenner's". A few of them make the transition from their "payment frenzy buying habits", to actually living within their means.
They find they have to stay put where they are. They also find that the kitchen and bath that looked ok when they moved in, got "tired" quickly.
Since they've been forced to "grow roots", they actually build up some real equity in their house also.
> $3.00 a gal for gas means the leased SUV they were paying $400 amonth for goes away for something more fules efficient ($250 amonth Accord, etc).
Also - since the budget has become a little tighter, the frequent trips to the resteraunt are curtailed. That does double duty. #1- it helps the budget. #2 - It allows more time at home. More time at home = more time in that tired kitchen & more time on the net to research the various ways to replace it.

That's the type of "niche" I believe Mitchell is referring to.
That's an excellent and growing market to target.

[Scot Roberts]

As for the original post and subject, there's a family in the Ozarks doing it. And I do mean the whole family. The Schmitt family, Dad, mom, twin girls in their early 20s and a son slightly younger. I know these folks and they are wonderful people and they ALL work on everything they put out. The five of them are Dryad Studios. (http://www.dryadstudios.com/) Every piece of furniture is made from wood that they have controlled from seedling to finish. They grow their own trees, mostly oak, mill them (much of it quartersawn) and dry them on their property. His finishing process is amazing and quite complex in some cases.

They've been featured in many magazines and rightfully so. They do amazing work that will last for many generations. They are a rare breed. As for how they do financially, I've never asked but I think they do ok. As several have mentioned before, high-end work like this is expensive and sales I imagine are left to those who can afford it and appreciate it.

I know they recently completed a bed for a client in the UK, Scotland I think. Imagine what the shipping cost was on that. Anyway, they've opened various online stores to expand their visibility and you can see more of their work there.

Look for the massive tables in this first link that they made for the Arkansas State Supreme Court.
http://dryadstudios.deviantart.com/gallery/

http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=5348389

[Billy Chambless]

My question is why would anybody want to spoil a great hobby by trying to make a living off it. What would you do for a hobby after you get sick of doing it all day long?
Gary

Heh.

I wonder if people who do woodworking for a livng come home and develop software or analyse stocks for fun.

[David Epperson]

I always remember this article I read during the recession of the early 90's. This guy did high end work but his secret was that he used to travel every day to this ritzy section of a town about an hour drive from where he lived. He would do a kitchen over real nice and the rich people's friends would see it and ask who did it. Well, to make a long story short, he had a waiting list for over a year's work. Each friend tried to out do the one before...he said it was crazy how competitive these 'well- to- do' people are of each other.:)
Gary
My BIL did exactly that - building decks. High end decks at that. Of course it did not hurt that my sister was a real estate sales agent at the time.

[Gary Keedwell]

Heh.

I wonder if people who do woodworking for a livng come home and develop software or analyse stocks for fun.
Being in the manufacturing business for many years, I know alot of machinists who do exactly that!!!
Gary

[Gary Keedwell]

As for the original post and subject, there's a family in the Ozarks doing it. And I do mean the whole family. The Schmitt family, Dad, mom, twin girls in their early 20s and a son slightly younger. I know these folks and they are wonderful people and they ALL work on everything they put out. The five of them are Dryad Studios. (http://www.dryadstudios.com/) Every piece of furniture is made from wood that they have controlled from seedling to finish. They grow their own trees, mostly oak, mill them (much of it quartersawn) and dry them on their property. His finishing process is amazing and quite complex in some cases.

They've been featured in many magazines and rightfully so. They do amazing work that will last for many generations. They are a rare breed. As for how they do financially, I've never asked but I think they do ok. As several have mentioned before, high-end work like this is expensive and sales I imagine are left to those who can afford it and appreciate it.

I know they recently completed a bed for a client in the UK, Scotland I think. Imagine what the shipping cost was on that. Anyway, they've opened various online stores to expand their visibility and you can see more of their work there.

Look for the massive tables in this first link that they made for the Arkansas State Supreme Court.
http://dryadstudios.deviantart.com/gallery/

http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=5348389
I remember the Schmitts. They were in WOOD magazine in 1998. I used their formula for finishing from the article to do one of my Arts & Crafts tables. As a matter of fact, I have the Magazine in front of me now for reference.
I always wondered what happened to them since it has been 9 years and I haven't heard anything about them. Great article, by the way.
Gary