Mold in Attic

[Trent Tubbs]

Need some help from the experts.....I have a newer home 2 years old, with full ridge vents and soffit venting, which normally is adequate air flow. I have mold forming in a few locations near the soffit vents (see picture). I have checked the roof (during a heavy rainfall), and all seems good. It looks like the moisture is coming from below (the living area ceiling). We had NUMEROUS problems with the contrator that built our home. During the wall framing it rained and soaked the framing/insulation, and I am fearfull that it was not dried out thoroughly. Could this be the problem? Could rain be penetrating through the soffit vents during a windy storm? Is the relative humidity in the living space causing moisture to rise into the attic space (we have a moisture barrier)? On the other side of the house n the bathroom when we shower we crack the window to ventilate, is the steam rising through the soffit and "catching" on the insulation? Boy, I am stumped, hopefully a few of your answers can help me eradicate this problem. Thanks!

[GERALD HARGROVE]

Trent,
This will probably be move to the off topic area soon. I would contact the builder about this. I have not built a house, but I have done a complete gut and re-build. I would say it is due to the insulation being wet either before or after installing it, or you have water coming in from somewhere. Moister from your living space should not cause mold in your attic, unless it is raining in your living room. Also, does your bath have a vent fan? If so, I would check to see if it is properly vented through the roof and not left loose in your attic. Good luck.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I don't know where you are Trent. However the law in many states is such that the builders and architechets are protected from liability and even what is the law is called "Latent Defect" (things you wouldn't have seen on a regular inspection) after a statutory period . Once that period is passed you the home owner are SOL~!!

This is usually a different set of laws from contract and tort law. Some times it favors the home owner and sometimes it does not.

Worse the liability for having discovered and disclosed a defect latent or otherwise often passes to the owner when he sells it. It's a state by state thing. Each state makes their own rules.


This means that you are quite possibly behind an 8-Ball. You get yourself an expert to diagnose the problem and if it is the builder or architect who failed to do it correctly, you have to decide whether you are going to eat it or they are. If the latter you gotta pay to sue 'em and you gotta do it all within the Statute of limitations that your state has that exclusively covers construction.

[Michael N Taylor]

I am a contractor and I personally don't think there would be enough moisture coming from the living space to cause your problem. I suggest you get a professional to check out your house because if the mold is in the walls you could be putting your family's health in danger. Black mold is the new asbestos and is a major problem if left untreated. Some people have to abandon their house becasue of it

[Mike Goetzke]

I'm not an expert either but it looks like the area arround your soffit is dry and the moisture is coming from below (if I read the picture right).

[keith ouellette]

There is a national call in home improvement show I listen to on the am station (You would have to go to his web site to see if it is played in your area www.garysullivanonline.com/main.html). I have heard this very subject talked about many times. its called At home with Gary Sullivan. He usually asks a number of questions to get a feel for what your looking at. He might be able to help.

[Chris Padilla]

Some friends went through this on a new home they purchased. However, the source of the problem was the master bathroom plumbing, which was over their garage. They found the problems when the drywall in the garage bubbled and failed and upon further digging, found substandard plumbing work. Since then, several other folks in the housing development had similar issues and the whole lot got together on a class action lawsuit to force the builder to fix things. IT TOOK FOREVER TO GET THE WORK DONE. Most just had it down and paid for it themselves and prayed they would get reimbursed. Good luck and talk to your neighbors...you may not have an isolated event there.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Meanwhile, I like to use Sporcidin on all molds.

I have only ever owned really ancient homes and they always have mold. when I moved in I'd start with the empty cellar and take a 5gallong can of 12% sodium hyperchlorite and a pressure washer to the whole place.
That'd give me a few years mold free and it's pretty cheap.

In the last decade or so I have come across a few different cold soak sterilants that will destroy mold spores on contact. My favorite is out of business. It was called ColdSpore it was a phenol concentrate you mixed with water and sprayed on. It left the cellar smelling rather nice for months and m0onths and killed everything.

Now I use Sporcidin at $80.00 for a four gallon case which you don't dilute. It's a quartenary glutamide and it is also supremely effective: better than bleach.

You can open up and spray down the afected areas and it'll kill it all off and provide residual control too for some while up to 6 months.

http://www.sporicidin.com/-ordering.htm

Their competitor is Cidex a J&J product

[Roland Chung]

Hi Trent,

Just some thinking out loud for your consideration:

1) Humidity and warmth can make it's way from the living space into the attic. Insulation will slow it down. Roof vents and powered attic vents can help reduce this.

2) Regarding that soffit area that you are showing, if you do have significant moisture entering the attic (rain, disconnected exhaust fans, areas missing vapor barrier, etc.) then is it possible that the metal (that I think I see) is acting like a glass of iced tea and allowing the condensation to collect and then run (like a rain gutter) onto the wood areas that are stained with water?

3) Is there a rain leak somewhere far from that water damaged site that might not be obvious, but is being delivered to that site by the metal or vinyl siding? I've seen water damage 30 feet away from the leak.

4) There are books written on the subject of water penetration - check out some by JLC.

5) If you can't figure this out easily, consider finding a real expert, not just a contractor, but be prepared to spend a lot of money. A regular home inspector generally doesn't do the heavy duty inspections and documentation that you would need for litigation.

Good luck and let us know what happens!

[Greg Sznajdruk]

You don't say what part of the country you are in, makes a difference if you’re in snow country. The picture is out of context. Don't see any insulation etc.

I have seen it rain inside of the roof, if there is not sufficient insulation, vapour barrier, Moore vents and roof vents. The moisture gets trapped in the roof space and when the temperature drops to the dew point the vapour will condense on the sheeting and then start to rain.

Greg

[Craig Kershaw]

Trent - You mentioned you had ridge vents and soffit vents, which is usually a good system. Hopefully you do not also have gable vents. Having all three types of vents can create a ventilation short circuit, resulting in moisture buildup in an attic. I had just such a problem in my house, the fix was to close off the gable vents. My problem was fairly minor, but I did find an online article where the entire attic of a house with a ventilation shortcircuit was covered in black mold.

[John Durscher]

You might check to see where all your bathroom and dryer ducts exit the house. On my house the builder ended the bathroom vent's ductwork into the attic. I've since made it so that it vented out the soffit.

As far as getting rid of the mold the TV show Holmes on Homes on one of the cable networks they removed attic mold with a sandblaster using dry ice as the blasting medium. It worked very well and there was almost zero cleanup. I thought that was a pretty clever way to do it - the dry ice simply evaporated after impact.

Good luck!!

John

[Eddie Darby]

Is the vapour barrier on the warm side???
Is it continuous, and sealed properly?
Are there any accidental holes in it?

Place another piece of similar wood in the mold area, to see if it gets moldy.This should tell you if it is from the rain getting on the wood at the start, allowing a foot hold to take place.

http://www.holmesonhomes.com/episode_show.php?sid=11&eid=53

I think if I remember correctly, there was a Holmes on Homes show where they shot dry ice pellets at the mold to remove it.

[Trent Tubbs]

Trent,
This will probably be move to the off topic area soon. I would contact the builder about this. I have not built a house, but I have done a complete gut and re-build. I would say it is due to the insulation being wet either before or after installing it, or you have water coming in from somewhere. Moister from your living space should not cause mold in your attic, unless it is raining in your living room. Also, does your bath have a vent fan? If so, I would check to see if it is properly vented through the roof and not left loose in your attic. Good luck.
No bathroom fan, nice huh. I am putting one in next week. The mold problem is on the otherside of the attic though, away from the bathroom windows.


I don't know where you are Trent. However the law in many states is such that the builders and architechets are protected from liability and even what is the law is called "Latent Defect" (things you wouldn't have seen on a regular inspection) after a statutory period . Once that period is passed you the home owner are SOL~!!

This is usually a different set of laws from contract and tort law. Some times it favors the home owner and sometimes it does not.

Worse the liability for having discovered and disclosed a defect latent or otherwise often passes to the owner when he sells it. It's a state by state thing. Each state makes their own rules.


This means that you are quite possibly behind an 8-Ball. You get yourself an expert to diagnose the problem and if it is the builder or architect who failed to do it correctly, you have to decide whether you are going to eat it or they are. If the latter you gotta pay to sue 'em and you gotta do it all within the Statute of limitations that your state has that exclusively covers construction.
We are already in litigation over other issues, this just adds to the problems. I'm actualy not even in North America, but our laws are similar to what you have mentioned. I'm having an inspector come out, again, to check this issue.


Hi Trent,

Just some thinking out loud for your consideration:

1) Humidity and warmth can make it's way from the living space into the attic. Insulation will slow it down. Roof vents and powered attic vents can help reduce this.

2) Regarding that soffit area that you are showing, if you do have significant moisture entering the attic (rain, disconnected exhaust fans, areas missing vapor barrier, etc.) then is it possible that the metal (that I think I see) is acting like a glass of iced tea and allowing the condensation to collect and then run (like a rain gutter) onto the wood areas that are stained with water?

3) Is there a rain leak somewhere far from that water damaged site that might not be obvious, but is being delivered to that site by the metal or vinyl siding? I've seen water damage 30 feet away from the leak.

4) There are books written on the subject of water penetration - check out some by JLC.

5) If you can't figure this out easily, consider finding a real expert, not just a contractor, but be prepared to spend a lot of money. A regular home inspector generally doesn't do the heavy duty inspections and documentation that you would need for litigation.

Good luck and let us know what happens!

Some great insight, I'll be checking, along with the inspector, and keep your suggestions in mind.


You don't say what part of the country you are in, makes a difference if you’re in snow country. The picture is out of context. Don't see any insulation etc.

I have seen it rain inside of the roof, if there is not sufficient insulation, vapour barrier, Moore vents and roof vents. The moisture gets trapped in the roof space and when the temperature drops to the dew point the vapour will condense on the sheeting and then start to rain.

Greg

I am in an area similar to Michigan weather. I had to move the insulation (R40) to snap the picture. What you say makes alot of sense. I usually air out the bathroom after a shower, the humidity travels up th esoffits into the attic and doesnt exit well enough. My ridge vents have a mesh netting on the bottom side to prevent bugs, debris from entering the attic. Could this cause the back-up of humid air?


Trent - You mentioned you had ridge vents and soffit vents, which is usually a good system. Hopefully you do not also have gable vents. Having all three types of vents can create a ventilation short circuit, resulting in moisture buildup in an attic. I had just such a problem in my house, the fix was to close off the gable vents. My problem was fairly minor, but I did find an online article where the entire attic of a house with a ventilation shortcircuit was covered in black mold.

No gable vents.


Is the vapour barrier on the warm side???
Is it continuous, and sealed properly?
Are there any accidental holes in it?

Place another piece of similar wood in the mold area, to see if it gets moldy.This should tell you if it is from the rain getting on the wood at the start, allowing a foot hold to take place.

http://www.holmesonhomes.com/episode_show.php?sid=11&eid=53

I think if I remember correctly, there was a Holmes on Homes show where they shot dry ice pellets at the mold to remove it.
Yes the vapor barrier is on the warm side, and probably numerous accidental holes. I'll be pulling up all the insulation this weekend to do a full inspection.


Thanks to everyone for your thoughts/experience.

[Greg Sznajdruk]

Ridge vents in cold climates especially where the snow covers them for an extended period of time are ineffective. I suspect if the snow is 3 to 4 inches and stays all winter then this may be your problem.

Greg