Tape measures -- any good ones out there?

[George Oak]

I was wondering if anyone here uses tape measures that they consider to be adequate for the standards of furniture making. Most of my tape measures seem to be rather inaccurate (especially the slop and play of the metal tab that is attached to the beginning of the tape).

I have held a theory that they make the starting tab (the metal lip on the tape) to have play so that whether pushing the tape against something or pulling, the play accounts for the thickness of the metal tab itself.

However, on most of my tape measures (even the relatively expensive US made Stanleys) the play does not accurately account for the tab, and just introduces errors.

If anyone can shed light on how to calibrate a tape measure, or can point me to some accurate ones, I would greatly appreciate it.

[Bill Reed]

I like the Big Johnson tapes. They are accurate enough for my needs, fit my hand comfortably, come with a great belt clip, have a very good clamping mechanism, and operate smoothly. The tab on the end is rubber so it doesn't bend when you inevitably drop the tape and it compensates perfectly for inside or outside measurements.

Bill

[Mike Henderson]

My opinion is that ordinary furniture measurements should be made with a metal rule and not with a tape, for some of the reasons you mention. I'll use a tape for rough layout but for final things, I alway use a rule.

Mike

[Kyle Kraft]

I like the Stanley 1/2" wide lever lock in the bright yellow case. As long as I only use that one tape measure, the error is spread equally over the whole project. For inside measurements, the Lufkin folding yellow rule with the brass extendo hoopee on the end is my choice. When using the two together I have never had an error worth worrying about, but then again, my tolerance is 0.031" TIR (Total Indicator Reading).

[Matthew Voss]

I like these:

http://www.tajimatool.com/shopping/2gseries.htm

Yep, the tape's hook should float a distance equal to it's thickness so that inside and outside measurements are accurate (as long as the hook remains 90 deg to the blade).

If you want better accuracy from a tape, burn an inch or 10 and skip the hook.

[Jim Becker]

I avoid the tape measure for furniture work as much as possible. I have a set of steel rules up to 36" long and can combine them for longer measurements in many cases and also employ story sticks. I consider a tape a "rough" measurement tool and two tape measures a dangerous thing...they are never exactly alike.

[Glenn Clabo]

Don't use tapes beyond rough measuring. Beyond that...rules...but even they will get you in trouble. Storysticks and marking the wood to be cut...is the way I was taught...and the way I do it. Well...I also resort to cardboard cutouts more these days.

[Terry Sparks]

Funiture making for the most part isn't forgiving enough to use a tape measure.

Also think about going metric, within a month you will realize it's nothing more than being bilingual and more accurate.

[Gary Keedwell]

Steel scales and story sticks for finish.....tape measure for roughing.
Gary

[Todd Jensen]

I like my Stanley 25' fat max, and burn an inch when it counts. I also use calipers and test runs for shelves, etc. requiring dadoes or other similar stuff. As long as you consistently use the same method of rule and the same tape for each project, I personally think a tape works fine. Equally important to me is visibility, method and accuracy of marks, and accuracy and trueness of cuts. Also, wood is not an aluminum piece that you are putting in a CNC machine(for the most part), and your eye, hands, and kentucky windage will go a long way towards producing accurate pieces in this 'living' medium. JMO, have fun measuring!:)

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-LEVELS-AND-MEASURING/searchpath/41660/start/17/total/19/Categories

[Robert Mayer]

I got this one at woodcraft after taking one of their metal rules and checking its accuracy, it was extremely close to perfect.

http://woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=3821

Be sure to check it first, but i had good luck with this one. plus is has 1/32, 1/8, etc actually marked on it. Helps me from having to count the marks.

[Jesse Cloud]

I only use tape measures for really rough measurements, e.g. rough cutting length at the chop saw to final + 2 inches.

But for a really cool tape measure, try

http://www.fastcap.com/products.aspx?id=346

Their tapes have a built in pencil sharpener and an erasable surface for taking notes - great for us old farts who can't remember a number long enough to take the board to the chop saw.:rolleyes: The scales are easy to read, too.

[Brian Dormer]

On a related note - Maybe I've been "doing it wrong" for so long that I'm missing something fundamental... But I'm right handed (like 90% of the rest of the world) - so I hold my pencil or marking knife in my right hand. I hold the tape in my left hand. But that makes the numbers UPSIDE DOWN - because the tape reads left to right.

WHY OH WHY don't they make a tape that reads right-side-up?

Am I missing something fundamental here? (I took Electronics in Industrial Arts - and skipped wood shop)

[Wilbur Pan]

Lee Valley (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32563&cat=1,43513) to the (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32562&cat=1,43513) rescue (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32565&cat=1,43513)!

(Three links above, just in case you didn't notice.)

[Brian Dormer]

Me Like!

(looking the horse squarely in the mouth) WHY aren't all tapes made like this?

I'm assuming there must be a logical reason.

BTW - I really like the FASTCAP Cabinetmakers tape - but the end doesn't move. If you make an INSIDE measurement, you have to subtract 1/8"

[glenn bradley]

As others have stated, I use a tape to get the general size and use a rule for accurate marking. I have not found a tape that I would trust for final measurements including the very good ones. They are just not designed for this purpose.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I have to agre with Todd on the Fat Max...those are vastly superior to almost any other tape that I have worked with. That said I do have two rules [36 & 48] and I use them for most of the tricky measurements where a tape won't do.

[Rich Schneider]

Steel rules for building...if I have to take an inside measurement that is bigger than my rules I use a wood folding rule that has the slide for such measuring....if you are set on buying a tape measure then go to Sears and buy a nice Craftsman tape measure..they are nicer than the Fat Max from Stanley in my opinion....you'll pay a little more, but when its shot take it back and get a new one...a construction contractor friend of mine takes in a couple of his each year and gets them replaced with no questions asked which just boggles my mind....




Don't use tapes beyond rough measuring. Beyond that...rules...but even they will get you in trouble. Storysticks and marking the wood to be cut...is the way I was taught...and the way I do it. Well...I also resort to cardboard cutouts more these days.

[Dave Lehnert]

On a related note - Maybe I've been "doing it wrong" for so long that I'm missing something fundamental... But I'm right handed (like 90% of the rest of the world) - so I hold my pencil or marking knife in my right hand. I hold the tape in my left hand. But that makes the numbers UPSIDE DOWN - because the tape reads left to right.

WHY OH WHY don't they make a tape that reads right-side-up?

Am I missing something fundamental here? (I took Electronics in Industrial Arts - and skipped wood shop)

I have one similar to the link below I purchased at Lowe's. What I like about this one, notice the numbers are printed sideways. This way ,no matter what way you use it, You don't have to look up-side-down. This is great setting the fence on your table saw.
If you use the same tape measure for your project to completion. You should not have a problem. It is more important for pieces to be the exact same size than it is to be an exact measurement.

http://www.amazon.com/Lufkin-Inch-Quikread-Power-Return/dp/B00018A4X4/ref=sr_1_56?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1197943912&sr=1-56

[Don Bullock]

Here's my favorite:

7738077381

It's accurate to the nearest foot.;):D:rolleyes:

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Boy this thread is takin' a dive....I like the last post....

BTW, that Craftsman is made by Stanley and it's basically a Fat Max.

[Brian Penning]

I go along with the Fast Cap. Surprising how much I use the pencil sharpener on it.

[Rod Sheridan]

I also have given up on tape measures except for general measurements, steel rules are the way to go.

I second the metric post, it's so much eaisier not to have to deal with fractions.

Lets see half of 758 mm is 379 mm,

compared to half of 29 27/32" is ..........Um, half of 29 plus half of 27/32 which is 14 1/2 plus 27/64 which is 14 32/64 plus 27/64 which equals 14 59/64.

Yes, we're all more familiar with the inch system, however the use of metric in the shop makes so many things easier, such as;

- 32mm cabinet system so everything is interchangeable

- dividing a length into equal parts such as for shelf pegs

- any other operation that uses multiples of a measurement.


Regards, Rod.

[Mike Goetzke]

I usually use a steel cased Stanley - I think 12', could be 10' tape measure. It has 1/2" wide tape and 1/64" increments. What I do is bring this little gauge block that I made with me that I can measure both inside and outside type of measurements. I calibrated the block closely with my steel rule and calipers. I try the tape measures on the gauge block before buying it. You wouldn't believe how many tape measures are off - especially when you compare the inside to outside readings. One problem that I noticed lately is that some of the manufactures are completely sealing the ruler in plastic so I can't use my gage. Like I think was mentioned, just use the same measureing tool for the whole project.

Mike

[mark page]

I have two Starrett ones that I have found to be the most accurate. They are also the digi-tape ones but have to admit I never use the digital feature.

[Bill Spievak]

I must be less accurate than the rest of you, or just lucky. I don't write down the measurements, ever, for cutting. The measurements are on the plan and I use them only for the initial cuts. I use a Fastcap tape that allows me to mark on the tape, and that is what I do. I use a fine line pencil and keep it sharpe with the sharpener that is on the tape. Works just like a story pole.

[Bill Huber]

I have some 3 foot scales that I use for the really fine work, but on the ruff cuts and things like that I use a tape.

I picked up one of these at Lowes and I really like it, it works just the opposite of most tapes. That is when you pull it out it locks and you have to use a button to close it.

I have checked it and it is closer then any other tape I have to be spot on. The one thing to me is if you are going to use a tape, use the same one all the time.


http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=171702-77923-SL2812&lpage=none

[George Bregar]

99% of my work is furniture, I use a tape all the time. What difference does it make if a rail length is even a 1/16" off, as long as they are all the same? So I use a tape to set my stop block to insure consistency. For things that need a higher level of accuracy, I either bust an inch or pull out a rule. If even more accuracy is needed I'll cut long and test and even use paper shims.

I can see how quick accurate measurement is important in cabinet making, or in any production environment where time is money, but for me...no.

[Todd Bin]

My opinion is that ordinary furniture measurements should be made with a metal rule and not with a tape, for some of the reasons you mention. I'll use a tape for rough layout but for final things, I alway use a rule.

Mike

What is the longest metal rule you have. I am building a bookcase with 6 foot sides. The longest metal rule I have is 4' and I bet my starett tape is as accurate as that rule.

[Stan Smith]

http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-LEVELS-AND-MEASURING/searchpath/41660/start/17/total/19/Categories

Thanks for the info, Cliff. I had a real nice Starrett but dropped it from a high ladder. It had a plastic case. Looks like the Klein has some rubber padding and i like the double tip and read out on both sides.

[Brian Ross]

I use Fast Caps and find them quite sufficient.I use the same tape for each job.

Brian

[Rob Will]

My opinion is that ordinary furniture measurements should be made with a metal rule and not with a tape, for some of the reasons you mention. I'll use a tape for rough layout but for final things, I alway use a rule.

Mike

I agree with Mike. A ruler is hard to beat for accuracy ---- err even cheap ones:o. Tonight I just purchased some stainless steel 12" rulers at Walgreens for 99 cents. They have a neoprene backer pad.

It seems like Office Depot and Staples also have some decent metal rules --- and in longer lengths. I'm in the market for a 36" metal rule with fine grauations.

Rob

[John Gornall]

I use a Lufkin tape which avoids the end hook problem by not having a hook - the zero is about 3 inches from the end of the tape. It's like having a rule in your pocket. A small pocket tape 1/4" wide and 6 feet long. It's accurate. The back side of the tape can be used to measure diameters by wrapping the tape around.

http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/CF_Files/model_detail.cfm?upc=037103458506

[Adam Burgess]

I'm in the same camp with Todd Jensen and George Bregar. I use my cheap little 16' Stanley to set stop blocks and repeat cuts and just get thing started on the right scale.

But no mater what measuring device i use i always end up cutting the first cut on the side of caution and sneak up on the measurement. None of the tools and equipment in this beginners shop are extremely accurate to each other or even them selfs.

I just keep in mind that a woodworking project is relative to its self. Maybe thats why i never exactly reproduce a project from someone else's plans, i don't even try!

[Robert Conner]

I agree with the comments regarding Tape Measures and Rulers.
However there are times when the ease and portability of Tape Measures are needed.
Sears has been a Great source with their Instant Replacements. The only problem is they now simply replace the Tape Measure. They used to give you a New Tape to install in the Housing. I have some All Metal Sears Tape Measures that Sears no longer makes, I can have them replaced but the Replacements are nowhere near the Quality of the original. I can assume that within a couple of years the K-Mart influence on Sears will end their "Lifetime Warranty" anyway. Even now the "Satisfaction Guaranteed or your Money Back" no longer is quite that.
Progress!!
Robert

[frank shic]

i enjoy using the fastcap FLAT measuring tape for general use as well as the 32mm measuring tape for cabinet work.

[Lance Feagan]

I am also a big metric fan. I have a digital readout (DRO) on my table saw fence and have found it to be ridiculously accurate and precise (aka correct and repeatable, respectively). For measuring tools, since I often find myself building around an existing set of objects, I have an assortment of Starrett rules. My shortest rule is on the tiny 14MD double square (50mm) and my longest is an 1800mm, No. 35 Grad, heavy spring-tempered rule (a bit over 70" and weighs 3 lbs). Almost all rules I own read L-R and R-L so you never have to worry about which end you are measuring from. I have not found it overly challenging to achieve 0.50mm accuracy (1/50th of an inch) and can sight in the nearest 0.25mm (1/100 of an inch) consistent if need be for a project. My rules are all 0.50mm graduated.

I shouldn't say this because it will give away my buying location, but eBay is a pretty good place to pick up metric-only tools. Although there are not nearly as many metric-only tools that come up, when they do there are few if any bidders to compete against. I have often times gotten ridiculously good deals on tools. If a tool has dual scales for standard and metric, however, you will have competition. It is only the purely metric tools I have observed this phenomenon with.

As for the whole dividing standard measurements, simply get a rule with engineers graduations (10ths and 50ths) rather than the silly fractional graduations. Once you go decimal, you will never go back to fractions. Fractional measurements are not an inherent attribute of the standard system. I haven't looked into it, but I highly suspect the only reason we ever had fractional measurements were that simply using a compass and a straight edge you can divide the distance between any two points in half (construct the perpendicular bisector). Engineer's long ago switched to use decimal inch rules. Why carpenter's and others insist on using fractional inch rules is beyond me.

[Al Willits]

Prob with dividing standard measurements versus Metric??

Not me, its easy, if you have 4" and 2 large lines and one small line that becomes 2" and 1 large line and a bit.........

Actually it kinda depends on what I'm doing, generally if its under 16" I'll use the ruler off my combination square, if its fairly short I sometimes use the digital dial calipers.

For all else I usually use the yellow Stanley 25 foot fat tapes, I have two that at 8' are close enough that the eye can't see a difference, but I use only one per project and start at the inch mark, I don't have a lot of confidence in them little slots, even if they right on at the time.

Like Adam, I usually cut a bit to the plus side and work into it also.

Al

[Dave Falkenstein]

Allow me to add one of my pet peeves to this discussion on tape measures. I agree that tapes are appropriate for rough measurements. When making an inside measurement you have to add the width of the case to get the total dimension. Why is it that the case widths vary all over the map - even from the same tape maker. For example:

Stanley LeverLock (original) - 3"
Stanley LeverLock (current) - 3-1/4"
Stanley PowerLock - 3"
Stanley FatMax - 3-1/2"

Now I realize some tapes are longer than others, and therefore require a bigger case. But the examples above are all the same length tapes. C'mon tool manufacturers, give us users a break!

[John Thompson]

Fat Max for outside rough and always use the same tape with floating hooks..

Hook rule (metal with a fixed hook on end) inside and across.

Story stick for final cuts as it removes any shadow of a doubt!

Sarge..

[Dana Vogel]

There was a very interesting article on this subject awhile back cannot remember where but I am sure a Google search would dig it up. But pretty much the bottom line was to stay away from tapes as the blades are printed by a rubber roller which the end result can be effected by any change of roller or blade feed speed. I found this to be exactly true as I have purchased 6 tapes from Stanley, Lufkin, Kobalt,Starrett and all were out of caliber at one point proving that the printing process was in error. If you must use one then use one that most closely duplicates/matches your table saws scale and I found the Stanley 25' Fat Max to be almost an exact match to my PM2000. Hope this helps. Good Luck

[John-Paul Murphy]

Measure it with a laser infractometer, mark it with chalk, and cut it with an ax. That always works for me.:D
IMHO If you want dead on accuracy What Jim said steel rules and story sticks are the way to go. If I use a tape I stick with the same one. After a few cuts I begin to remember where I need to put the mark. Out side measurement cheat a little that way… Inside measurement cheat a little this way but… I have never been able to take a repeatable inside measurement with a tape measure just get close.

BTW if you take a good tri square to the store with you and rummage through all the tapes checking them with the square you will eventually find one that is very close to dead on.