HVLP Sprayer Question

[Stan Smith]

I just read Jeff Jewitt's sparying article in FWW. Great article! It got me jazzed up to try some spraying. I've been using spray cans and brushing and rubbing on. Not complaing, though. I've had a Campbell Hausfield hvlp hv2000 series setup for quite a few years but have only used it for painting around the house. To me, it's sort of a pita to clean up and get the viscosity right via thinning. I've only used water based paint with it because of the cleanup hassle. My question is, Has anyone used this equipment to spray stuff for woodworking? Thanks for any comments.

Stan

[David LaRue]

Stan,

I have had CH HVLP for a number of years too. I've sprayed just about everything you can think of with it, Oil, Latex, Lacquar, Water based poly, and varish. But it does not lay down a pro quality job, and the heat it generates effects the way it sprays. I have not used a high end 3 stage unit so I can't comment on those. But I have had good luck spraying water based poly with it as you have too.

But, a long time ago I used to do some custom work on cycle tanks and several car repaint / semi-custom lacquar, enamel jobs with conventional Binks guns. Anywhy, I miss those Binks spray guns! So last week a purchased a Binks gravity HVLP conversion. So, that's direction I'm heading... :)

Dave

[Stan Smith]

<< So last week a purchased a Binks gravity HVLP conversion. So, that's direction I'm heading... :) >>

Thanks for the info. Forgive this dumb que., but is the conversion for the CH unit or something entirely different?

I haven't tried water base poly, does it have to be thinned?

Stan

[David LaRue]

<< So last week a purchased a Binks gravity HVLP conversion. So, that's direction I'm heading... :) >>

Thanks for the info. Forgive this dumb que., but is the conversion for the CH unit or something entirely different?

I haven't tried water base poly, does it have to be thinned?

Stan


The gun I just got looks like this: http://www.eastwoodco.com/images/p8688.jpg

It is a conversion gun, that means that instead of the turbine of the CH, it uses a conventional compressor (ex 5hp Quincy or IR) and "converts" from a high pressure, high volume, to a High Volume, Low Pressure (HVLP)

There are basically two ways to deliver the air the gun needs, either Turbine or Conventional

The CH we have is a Turbine, that comes with a HVLP siphon gun. Rather than having a compressor it uses a series of blower stages to deliver the air.

As far as the HVLP conversion guns go, there are three basic types, Gravity, Siphon and Pressure Feed.

Gravity Feed:
The paint cup is above the nozzle

Siphon Feed:
The pint cup is below the nozzle, and the paint is siphon feed gun is just conventional guns

Pressure Feed:
Uses a pressurized paint pot that resembles an old pressure cooker. The paint is fed to the gun via supply and return line

HVLP is nice since you get low over-spray and less material usage, both are nice for small shops.

I'll send you a PM to link on spraying poly with the CH.

Dave

[Stan Smith]

Thanks again, Dave, for taking time for your detailed explanation to a sprayer-challenged person. I just have a small compressor currently, a little twin tank emglo. It just keeps going and going and I realize that it would not be good for spraying because of the tank size restriction. I guess I was hoping that there may have been some new modification to the CH unit or sprayer that would enable it to be used for spraying lacquer. I am a big Deft fan and was trying to determine if I could use in my current gun with the CH unit. The guy does have some different needles. The gravity feed does look like the way to go, does it make clean up easier, too? Thanks.

Stan

[Steve Roxberg]

I like the finish mine puts out, but man the clean-up is a pain. I spary Oil based paints so far, does anyone have tricks for cleaning them up?

I bought, but haven't used some cup liners, that should make cleaning the cup easier.

Do people just take them apart and rinse them in thinner, if that is the correct solvent, or do you spray thinner through it? I've tried sparying thinner, and it's a mess.

Help, I'd like to start using it some more.

Maybe the water based polys.

Can you spray Shelac through one?

[Stan Smith]

Steve, I'm with you on the cleaning and I haven't ever used oil-based paint in it. I would be using those liners in a heart beat. I was thinking of getting an extra can to use just for cleaning by spraying thinner through the gun to clean the inside parts. However, when I have used it, I just take everything apart and use a brush to clean everything with soapy water in a bucket. I'm going to see if CH makes a gavity feed gun that can be used with this system. Since I already have it, I hate to give up and spend more money on a new compressor for as often as I do spraying. Actually, I was hoping for a few more suggestions and comments, but most may not have this system or know about it?

Stan

[nic obie]

Stan,

I've been using a Wagner HLVP that is similar to your CH one for a doz. or so years. The only thing I spray is oil based coatings, mostly lacquer.

I've found that the use of a cup liner saves time and lacquer thinner. After you remove the dirty cup liner and clean the gasket, pour a couple inches of lacquer thinner into the cup, shake well and spray it out. I just step outside and spray it on a nearby (unpainted) fence.

Every 3 or 4 cleanings I take everything apart and dip them in lacquer thinner for a few minutes then spray the clean thinner thru the gun.

Once you do it a few times you'll find it only takes a few minutes.

[Douglas Robinson]

I have a Turbinaire Q4. I have only sprayed latex so far. It is great. In the beginning getting the viscosity right was a pain, but my wife hired a profession to come to the house and show me the ins and outs of how to use correctly. My results now are so much better! I don't try to achieve too much with each coat, and I spray in a much better pattern. Sanding between coats is critical.

As far as clean-up goes, most of the unit is stainless steel. I can clean the whole unit in 15 minutes. The hardest part was figuring how to disassemble and reassemble the parts.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

[Stan Smith]

Thanks, everybody, for the good info. I have been to Wood Central where I found a bunch of posts on using conversion v. turbines. Good discussion and informative. Saw one post mentioning converting an accuspray conversion gun to turbine use. Don't know any more about it, though. Also found a reference to hvlp turbine review at:

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00051.asp

This was an excellent article. the Wagner 2600 got the best rating and it is priced at $500 which I have heard is pretty reasonable for a good turbine unit. I'm thinking that my Campbell Hausfield unit (they don't make that model anymore) may not be that great. A major criticism is that most do not have a non-bleeder gun--seems like a most desirable feature to this rookie. I guess I may try to find a gun that has that feature and mull the whole thing over so more before leaping off the tool-purchase cliff. More comments are welcome.

Stan

[Alan Turner]

Stan,
You may not be out of the box with your smallish compressor. The HVLP gun uses very little air, since it only goes into the gun at about 20 psi or so. I have a "5" HP Crapsman smeone gave me, and it rarely cycles when I am spraying. I use an Asturo gravity feed, and that is all I have ever used. Primarily spray shellac. The clean up is pretty easy for this gun, with shellac.

[Stan Smith]

Stan,
You may not be out of the box with your smallish compressor. The HVLP gun uses very little air, since it only goes into the gun at about 20 psi or so. I have a "5" HP Crapsman smeone gave me, and it rarely cycles when I am spraying. I use an Asturo gravity feed, and that is all I have ever used. Primarily spray shellac. The clean up is pretty easy for this gun, with shellac.

Hey Alan, you might be a lifesaver. I was just wondering about that very thing. Real glad to hear that it's working for you. I hope some others might chime in to give me even more encourgagement. I was thinking gravity feed as well. I have my little compressor on a stand with wheels incase I have to use it out of the shop. I did use it to replace some siding last year and have to do the same this year. I'm going to get some bigger wheels for it, though--at least 4". I'm going to look around for one of those gravity feed conversion guns. Thanks.

Stan

[Alan Turner]

Stan,
I give most of my trade on finishing supplies to Jeff Jewitt at Homestead Fininshing. It is not the cheapest date, but it comes with the right advice, which to me has much value. When I bought my gun from Jeff, he asked what I would be spraying, and I told him primarily shellac. So, he set up the gun correctly for me, with a 1.5mm nozzle. If I had bought it elsewhere, I would probably have had to beg for advice, and would be skeptical of its accuracy.
Jeff is a very decent (and, of course, knowledgable) fellow, who is a pleasure to deal with. I am somewhat of a neophite in terms of spraying. I went with the gravity gun at his suggestion, and find it easy to use, and adjust. Mine is not large, and so works for both regular spraying, and touchup work as well. There is nothing left in the vessel when it is empty, and so very little wasted product.
Alan

[Bob Reilly]

[
A lot of people swear by this gun, the $129.00 unit.

http://www.gleempaint.com/hvcongun.html

[Stan Smith]

Thanks Alan, I have bought some stuff from Jeff over the years. My compressor is 1.5hp while yours is 5hp so I'm not sure that would be enough power.

Thanks, Bob. I had found a ww site via Yahoo that did a review on that sprayer. I have already been to the url you gave and the review said that my compressor would handle the Wagner gun. The price is certainly reasonable, too. I might just check with Jeff to see if he carries the same gun.

Stan

[Stan Smith]

Stan,
I give most of my trade on finishing supplies to Jeff Jewitt at Homestead Fininshing. It is not the cheapest date, but it comes with the right advice, which to me has much value. When I bought my gun from Jeff, he asked what I would be spraying, and I told him primarily shellac. So, he set up the gun correctly for me, with a 1.5mm nozzle. If I had bought it elsewhere, I would probably have had to beg for advice, and would be skeptical of its accuracy.
Jeff is a very decent (and, of course, knowledgable) fellow, who is a pleasure to deal with. I am somewhat of a neophite in terms of spraying. I went with the gravity gun at his suggestion, and find it easy to use, and adjust. Mine is not large, and so works for both regular spraying, and touchup work as well. There is nothing left in the vessel when it is empty, and so very little wasted product.
Alan

Afternoon, Alan. You'll be happy to know that I decided to go with Homestead after Jeff answered all my questions. I bought the Walcom slim/s which is on special this month for $229. I also bought some sanding sealer and lacquer. The Walcom is gravity feed hvlp. Jeff says that my little 1.5hp emglo will run it. He doesn't think much of the Campbell Hausfield turbine unit that I have so no point in getting another gun for it. I have been looking for a conversion table that would show what my compressor cfm's are at 29 psi, but don't know how to convert from 3.6cfm's at 125 psi.. I guess I'll just keep my fingers cross for now. I don't plan on using it for hours at a time anyway.

Again, thanks to all who posted.

Stan

[Alan Turner]

Stan
Thanks for the note. I for one very much enjoy giving my trade to the good quality niche players in the high end woodworking market as I think they add much to the craft, both in terms of quality and spirit. Jeff and Homestead certainly fall into that category.
Have fun spraying.
Alan

[Stan Smith]

Well, I wouldn't put myself at the high end but it does give something to strive for. Years ago, Jeff used to hang out on the Pond and answered some questions for me. I was so impressed that I bought his book, "Hand Applied Finishes." That is a great book if you want to learn how to rub stuff out. I also have his other book, Great Finishes. For awhile, I was using aniline dyes but put some on some toys and they somehow bleeded through when my grandkids chewed on them. Now I'm just using spray can paints and sometimes I cover them with Deft also.

You mentioned Jeff putting a 1.5 needle in your gun and that you spray shellac. He did the same for me and I'll be spraying lacquer. Nice to know that I don't have to change to use shellac. One thing I learned is that I'll be using a non-water based sanding sealer which is thinned with lacquer thinner. I had been using the other kind and it really raised the grain big time.

Stan
:rolleyes:

[Alan Turner]

Stan,
You might ask Jeff is the 1.5 is right for shellac in your gun. I seem to recall that with diff. guns, diff. size nozzles would be appropriate. I seem to recall that for laq. for my Asturo, he was recommending a 1.3mm tip. But, were I to spray laq., I would call him to discuss before proceeding.
Alan

[Stan Smith]

Stan,
You might ask Jeff is the 1.5 is right for shellac in your gun. I seem to recall that with diff. guns, diff. size nozzles would be appropriate. I seem to recall that for laq. for my Asturo, he was recommending a 1.3mm tip. But, were I to spray laq., I would call him to discuss before proceeding.
Alan

Thanks, I will.

Stan

[Brian Walter]

Stan, I have the Wagner HVLP conversion gun and really like it a lot, but I find getting user support a little difficult. For example, the gun comes with a chart to help you choose the correct needle/air cap for the particular material you are spraying, but it would really help if they furnished a viscosity range to go along with the recommendation, not just a subjective discription of the material. Also, the gun is a pressure type, that appears to have one less control than other similar guns. So when I read articles about how to set the pressures I can't do the same. For this reason, I would recommend going through Jeff and buy one of his guns, even though I think the Wagner gun works just fine.

If anyone out there has a viscosity chart that I can use with the Wagner, I would be very greatful if you would share it.

As far as cleaning goes, it really isn't that hard. I suggest that you buy or rent Michael Dresdner's movie "Spray Basics". I rented it from Rockler's for about $3 and found it very usefull, although quite basic. He shows you how to select, use and clean a gun, how to set up portable spray booths, and a host of over interesting things. And best of all you don't have to read it, you just sit back and watch. I see that Jeff also has a book(s) out that I haven't read, but think I might buy that you may also find usefull.

Brian Walter

[Stan Smith]

Hey, thanks for the info, Brian. I'm going to rent that video myself. I think that Jeff has some videos out, too. I have 2 of his books. "Great Wood Finishes" is a real good book with lot's of pics that are very helpful.

Stan