Anyone tried the Delta 35-7657 blade?

[Matt Meiser]

I picked up one of the Delta 35-7657 40-tooth 10" blades last night. This is supposedly the same blade as the old Dewalt 7657 that was well regarded. Mine must have one tooth offset from the others as I'm getting some pretty good scoring. The blade cuts great for both ripping and crosscuting 4/4 oak with very little tearout where the blade exits the back of a crosscut. However the scoring is very pronounced on the rip cuts. I get virtually none with my WWII. This one is going back, but I wonder if I just got a bad one or if the quality isn't as great as before?

Since my WWII is requiring significantly more power to push a piece through when ripping and I'm getting some tearout when crosscutting, its time to send it in for sharpening. I'd hoped to use the Delta as a backup blade.

[scott spencer]

Hi Matt - I've tried the DeWalt 7657, but not the Delta. I thought the DW was really good compared to other full kerf general purp blades. The DW and Delta appear identical to me, and AFAIK both came from the UK so there's no reason to think they;ve changed the site of manufacturer.

It's interesting that you're getting scoring though....I don't put alot of stock in reviews, but the past two reviews I've read both gave the 7657 mediocre remarks. The WWJ tests rated it fairly poorly...at the time, I assumed something was wrong with the blade...(and that may still be the cause of their results). Wood's recent review ranked the Delta a bit better than WWJ rated the DW, but not where I would have expected based on my use, and feedback from others...not to mention the favorable writeup Wood did a couple of years ago in a head to head comparison between the DW7657 and WWII. I'm wondering if QC has taken a hit since B&D took over....perhaps a victim of cost cutting. The price has also dropped from ~ $55 to $40....I'd rather spend $55 and get a darkhorse challenger to the WWII than $40 for an "OK" blade. Let us know if the exchanged Delta does any better...

[Matt Meiser]

Scott, thanks for the information. I'm wondering if there is anything else that might be available locally at a reasonable price. Someone mentioned a blade list you had, but I couldn't find anything on it. Amazon has the WWII for $80 after a discount and with free shipping. However this time of year I expect I could be waiting a while for that to come. And if I could spend $40-50 for a backup blade I'd rather do that anyway.

[scott spencer]

Here's the chart (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=61724&highlight=blade+turns), Matt. You might try exchanging the 7657 for another and see how it goes....if it's "strike two", then they're out! :D

If you don't want to exchange, you should be able to find a Freud LU84 somewhere locally....maybe from a Woodcraft in Canton or Toledo. I'd bet Holbren could get a Tenryu RS25550 (http://www.holbren.com/product.php?productid=125&cat=0&page=1)to your door by the end of this week...~ $40 shipped with "SMC10" discount, or the Amana AGE MDT10-400 (http://www.holbren.com/product.php?productid=3528&cat=0&page=1) for ~ $36 shipped.

[Bruce Wrenn]

I have both the DeWalt 7657 and Delta 7657. Recently chewed up some teeth on the DeWalt 7657. With promos from Amazon, it was less than a buck more to get a new Delta 7657, vs sharpening. I use my 7657's regularly. I have two Forrest WWII's, one of which is three years old, but still new in the box. The other was fixed by Forrest over a year ago, but hasn't been on the saw yet. My 7657 gives me quality cuts. It has a lot less chatter than the WWII. With the 30 day satisfaction guarantee, exchange yours.

[Matt Meiser]

I exchanged it tonight and made a couple test cuts. This one is about the same. Maybe my expectations for a $40 blade are too high. The scoring is light enough that it would clean up with 1 swipe of a plane or pretty quick with the sander. Anyway, it does a better job than my Freud 24T dedicated rip blade and it does a great job on crosscuts so I think I will keep it and use it for its intended purpose--as a backup to the WWII I already have.

Its probably time to check the adjustment on my saw as I haven't done that since I moved here 4 years ago, and I've moved the saw since then.

[Dick Strauss]

Matt,
Anderson's carries a good selection of Freud blades if you decide to go that route....at least the store in Maumee does.

I got one of the Delta 7657 blades recently based on Scott's recommendation. I guess I better check it out to see of it is any good before its too late.


Good luck,
Dick

[scott spencer]

I get blade marks to some degree with all the 40 and 50 tooth general purp blades Matt, but it's typically kind of hard to spot. I often need to hold the cut edge up to the light at just the right angle to see the pattern...depending on the wood (heck, I get marks from 80T blades too but they're even harder to find). When I tested the DW7657, it was pretty hard to tell the cuts apart from the WWII...maybe not quite equal, but close enough that it took several comparison cuts to determine that.

I wouldn't hesitate for a second to return the Delta if you're not satisfied. That's their policy and you have a reasonable case IMO. Besides, I'd be really curious about that Amana AGE blade! ;)

The swirl marks from the LU84, and nearly all the 50T ATB/R combos I've tried tend to be more pronounced. Most have a very similar pattern that's a bit easier to see than the marks left by the premium 40 toofers....I assume due to the leading raker with the large gullet. The Infinity Combomax is a 50T that performed more like the 40 tooth blades for me, and happens to use a non-standard ATB/R pattern...their raker is chamfered, and is buried in the middle of the group as opposed to leading it. It's worthing noting that all of these do produce a glue ready edge though...

Keep us posted!

[Matt Meiser]

These swirl marks are plainly visible and can be felt so it sounds like that is way worse than what you saw in your tests. Either than or I'm really picky. But you've convinced me. The Delta is going back to Lowes and I just ordered the Amana from Holbren. I paid the $5 for Fedex home delivery so hopefully it won't take too long despite the Christmas rush.

[scott spencer]

These swirl marks are plainly visible and can be felt so it sounds like that is way worse than what you saw in your tests. Either than or I'm really picky. But you've convinced me. The Delta is going back to Lowes and I just ordered the Amana from Holbren. I paid the $5 for Fedex home delivery so hopefully it won't take too long despite the Christmas rush.

Sounds like a wise move...I can't even feel the swirl marks with my 10T ripper so something's wrong with those blades.

[Matthew Voss]

I'm surprised - I bought both the Delta 7657 and Freud's LU88 based on Scott's reviews and both have performed flawlessly. I bought the 7657 as a backup and it has stayed on the saw since. Nothing like what you are describing...

[Matt Meiser]

It is entirely possible that I got two bad blades. They both came out of the same box at the same Lowes. However I'm not going to keep trying because I'm cutting a lot of wood up trying :D That and I don't want to end up on Lowes "not allowed to return anything" list. One of my customers was telling me his wife is banned from making returns at Sears because she has a habit of buying a bunch of stuff and taking it home to decide if she really wants it. Even with reciepts they cut her off.

Since my WWII doesn't do this, I'm mostly convinced its the blades, not the saw or a technique issue. BTW, slowing the feed rate just makes the marks closer together. Its actually better to feed fast because there are fewer marks and what's between looks good. Now if I get this Amana blade and its doing the same thing then I'll have to look harder at the saw. And never speak to Scott again :D :D :D

BTW, Sears supposedly has Dewalt 7657's available. I wonder if you'd get the Delta version though.

[Simon Dupay]

I have a delta 80 tooth blade haven't used it much and I had to send to the sharpener already I bought a WW II same time and it's as sharp as the day I bought it.

[Gary Muto]

I have a new 35-7657 and put it on my saw last night. I'm making some cutting boards and was preparing the edges for glue up. After jointing some of the edges after glue up, I was unable tell the difference so I proceeded to gluing without jointing some of the thinner boards. I'll be checking the glue ups tonight.
I think you got a couple of bad blades.

[Matt Meiser]

The Amana is here and I've made a few test cuts. With the Amana I'm getting similar marks, but they are more pronounced than the Delta and run both ways (i.e. both the front and the back of the blade are leaving them. I still don't understand how my WWII could be cutting smooth but not these other blades, but obviously I need to check everything out as far as runout and alignment on my saw. Two bad blades from the same box I could believe, three from two different manufacturers, not likely and both are supposed to be good blades.

As far as the rest of the story on the Amana. I think the Delta did a slightly better on crosscuts--it gave a silky smooth finish while the Amana is slightly rough. Its not terrible mind you, but just clearly not as smooth as the Delta. Also, the Amana requires more feed pressure. So right now, I'd say the Delta would be my choice for a $40 blade and the WWII would be my choice for any blade.

Our woodworking club meets tonight. I think I'm going to take the Amana along and try it out on our host's Unisaw if it is OK with him. I might even stop at Lowes and pick up yet another Delta to try. If the results on his saw are similar, I'll probably be returning the Amana. That will also give me an opportunity to get some opinions from some others on the cut quality. Don't want anyone to read this thread without the whole story eventually being in here.

[Homer Faucett]

I bought one on the advice of the local Woodcraft owner, and was VERY impressed with it. Much to my surprise, it performed even better than my Freud combo blade. Much faster cutting, and better finish (but not much better).

[Matt Meiser]

Another update. Tonight I stopped and got a third Delta blade. This one is the last one from the same box as the other two. I took it and the Amana and tried them on someone else's Unisaw. The results were identical to my saw. He also has a WWII (which needs a sharpening) and one of the new Freud Premier Fusion 40T blades. I just did a couple rip cuts in the same piece of red oak with each blade and here is how I would rank them:

1) Forrest Woodworker II. ($100 at Amazon) Finish was smooth. Under the flourescent lighting I could not see swirl marks. Feed pressure was high, but the blade needs sharpening so that's not suprising.

2) Freud Premier Fusion P410 ($100 at Amazon) Very slight swirl marks visible at just the right angle. About the same feed pressure required as the Amana.

3) Delta 35-7657 ($40 at Lowes) Swirl marks visible to the naked eye and barely able to be felt. Lowest feed pressure of all blades I tried.

4) Amana AGE MDT10-400 ($36 at Holbren). Very visible swirl marks, easy to feel. Tied with the Freud for feed pressure.

Now, one of the other guys looked at all my cuts and felt that even the Amana was acceptable. I started with the Amana, then the Delta, then the WWII and I think he was suprised at how much better the cuts got. I tried the Fusion later when he wasn't around. A second guy also looked at the cuts and agreed with my ordering based on cut quality. This was also a very unscientific test--I probably should have made many cuts in several species to get a comparable test. The feed pressure is just a seat of the pants feeling. The saw's alignment wasn't checked.

The aftermath:
We usually have a drawing at our meetings where we use the proceeds from selling the raffle tickets to buy something to give away. Since we didn't have anything this month, the Amana blade became the prize instead of me sending it back. The first guy above just happened to win it and was very happy to do so. I'm going to keep Delta #3 as my backup blade while I get my WWII resharpened. If I need to buy another general purpose blade at some point, or the next time Amazon runs a killer deal, I'll buy another WWII. I wouldn't buy the Freud just because for the same price I could get a WWII which did a slightly better job in this little test. Its not a bad blade, just a little expensive for its performance compared to the competition. For $36, the Amana is definitely livable, just plan to joint your edges after the saw. Many people do this anyway so its probably not a big deal. The Delta's edges would be perfectly fine for glueups. For finished edges, one, maybe two passes with a hand plane will have them glass smooth. The Delta also has the advanatage of being available at 5 on a Sunday afternoon when you hit a nail with your good blade.

[scott spencer]

That's kind of disappointing all around Matt, but glad you were able to give the Amana a good home in the end. Thanks for the updates and have a Merry Christmas.

[Matt Meiser]

That's kind of disappointing all around Matt.

Yep, that kind of sums it up.

[JayStPeter]

I've been down that road. I had a 50T Delta blade that came with my Unisaw that would up being a real nice backup blade. Unfortunately, it slipped out of my hand and hit the concrete ... doh. I tried a few locally available less expensive blades with similar results to you and would up catching an Amazon deal on a backup WWII. IIRC, in the last FWW combo blade review the second place blade was in the price range you've been looking. Don't remember which blade it was, but I think it started with an 'E'. I want to say Everlast, but that's not right. Might be worth looking into, but a sale/cupon deal can get a WWII pretty cheap sometimes.

Jay - who now has 2 dull WWIIs

[Brian Gumpper]

Sorry the blade didn't work out that well Matt. I haven't tried that blade myself so can't comment but Amana has a good name and they look like a good blade. Being you didn't send it back, would you do the same test using the Amana Prestige blade if I sent you a freebie?

[scott spencer]

Sorry the blade didn't work out that well Matt. I haven't tried that blade myself so can't comment but Amana has a good name and they look like a good blade. Being you didn't send it back, would you do the same test using the Amana Prestige blade if I sent you a freebie?

Gee Matt...I've had worse service than this for more money! :D

[Matt Meiser]

Sorry the blade didn't work out that well Matt. I haven't tried that blade myself so can't comment but Amana has a good name and they look like a good blade. Being you didn't send it back, would you do the same test using the Amana Prestige blade if I sent you a freebie?

Ummmm let me think for a minute............OK!

[Matt Meiser]

Another update on the saga. I spent a 1/2 hour or so checking out the alignment on my TS before Christmas. Everything was fine in that respect--no changes were necessary.

After the 1st I'll be sending my WWII to Scott's Sharpening so it will be interesting to see how the newly resharpened WWII compares, as well as the Amana Prestige Brian is going to send.

[Brian Gumpper]

It's on the way.

[Matt Meiser]

I got the new Amana from Brian today and just came in from giving it a try. The first thing I noticed is that this is a thick blade. My thin kerf ZCI which I accidentally ran a full kerf blade through once this past week (so it is really like a brand-new full kerf insert) wouldn't fit over the blade without forcing it, which I didn't do. My full kerf ZCI which has a fair amount of use and is therefore a little oversized just fit and a few plastic chips were thrown up the first time I turned on the saw. Looking at Brian's web site I see it is a .134 kerf blade. However, the blade melts through 4/4 oak even on a rip cut and actully seemed to require slightly less feed pressure than the Delta which would make this the lowest feed pressure of all the blades I've tried in the past few weeks. There were some slight swirl marks. I'd rate it between the Delta and the Premier Fusion. Unlike the Delta, slowing down the feed rate improves the cut--as I mentioned before, slowing down with the Delta actually makes things worse because I just get swirls closer together. On crosscuts, the Amana is essentially a perfect blade. With the same 4/4 oak, there was maybe a couple fine whiskers on the backside of a crosscut--the kind that brush off with a finger and leave no visible signs behind. Even feeding the wood as fast as I could, the tearout was minimal, leaving almost no visible damage once the whiskers were knocked off. The face was silky smooth either way. Overall, I'd say this is an excellent blade value at about 1/2 of the cost of a Woodworker II. I'd also say the improved performance over the Delta is worth the extra $9-10 (assuming sales tax) over the Delta. The cut quality is slightly better than the Delta and slightly worse than the Freud--but you'd pay 2x as much for the Freud.

Borrowing from Wood magazine's rating system I'd give the Wooworker II the overall Best rating, and the Amana Prestige a Best Buy rating.

As for where I go from here. The Delta blade is going back yet again. Lowes is going to hate me but there's really no reason to keep it since I would choose the Amana over the Delta with both in my blade storage box. The Amana will become my backup blade assuming my Woodworker II performs just as good as when new after sharpening. If not the Prestige and the WWII will probably be used interchangably and my next new blade would be another Amana.

Another update when my WWII comes back from sharpening...

[Leo Graywacz]

My blade of choice is the Amana 60 tooth AT blade. Very smooth cuts in all woods. I use it for ripping as well as cross cutting. I have a few of them and at $13 for a sharpening I don't mind the shorter than usual life becuase I rip with them. The blade usually runs me about $45 new. The Delta combo 50 tooth blade is used for ripping thicker rough stock. It has a tendency to vibrate and leave a large score mark when I stop and start the feed as I reposition my hand holds as I am feeding 16' stock. I am not impressed with this blase at all. I also use a 50 tooth combo Amana that has this same problem. I thought it was my 20 year old Jet saw but it happens on my brand new Delta Unisaw too.

[Matt Meiser]

I just got my WWII back from Scott's Sharpening at the end of last week and put it back on the saw for a trial. Its still the best cutting blade I've owned with easy feed pressure and a very smooth cut. The WWII with the Amana Prestige as a backup is a good value IMHO for a general duty blade set. Definitely not the cheapest option, but to me the cut quality is more important.