Anticipating Christmas money to buy....

[Jim O'Dell]

A new SCMS for the shop. I've heard good things about the top 3 on my list, in order
1. Makita LS1013FL
2. Hitachi C10FSH
3. Bosch 4410L
I made a little trip out this am and looked at the Makita and Hitachi. I really like the Makita and the size of the base. It looks like it would support the wood you are cutting very well. I like how the Hitachi feels when sliding the mechanism...very smooth. I also like the bigger diameter dust collection port. As bad as dust collection is on these, every little advantage would help. But the table size is about half that of the Makita. I will have plenty of support on either side of the unit when in use 77182 (that gap is about 36" wide) but not all cuts will be on pieces that will span to the benches on one side or the other.

For those of you with the Hitachi or the Bosch (Didn't get to put my hands on that one, but looks to have about the same size table) what are your experiences with cutting wide stock that is short in length?
The Hitachi would come out to about 400.00 on Amazon with the 50.00 off promotion (I think it applies to this, it's for all bench top tools), plus there is a mail in rebate for a free M12VC router, which would be a big plus with my PC8529 variable speed control on the fritz. The 50.00 off is good through 12/31/07, and the free router is good through 1/31/08. Amazon dropped the price on the Makita six whole dollars this morning! :rolleyes: Such a great price.:D Actually Home Depot has it for a better price...449.00 plus tax. If you could get a 10% off deal from them, it would be pretty sweet.
Thanks for any information on the Hitachi or Bosch you can give me. I'd prefer to have a larger table area, but may go the Hitachi if no one has had a problem with the smaller area support wise. THANKS! Jim.

[Jim Kountz]

Jim I have the Dewalt 12" slider and I like it alot. Its taken alot of abuse on my jobsites over the years and has held up extremely well. The only thing that has ever broke on the saw was the blade wrench retaining clip on the back of the saw, so naturally I then lost the wrench that came with it. Not a huge deal. I had an 8" Hitachi slider before that and its also a proven winner in the field, the main reason I replaced it was capacity. Recently however I have been giving serious attention to the Ridgid 12" slider. It has the biggest table of any other saw and thus provides ALOT more support for wider stock if that is an issue with your decision. It is for mine since I use my saw for framing as well as fine trim work, wide crown etc etc. I never have liked or understood the reason why most of these saws have that narrow portion of bed for support. The Ridgid's bed is huge and the entire thing moves when adjusting the angle. Lastly the price, its less than most of the other 12" sliding saws. If my Dewalt gives up the ghost anytime soon I will replace it with the Ridgid no doubt. I will miss the Dewalt for its accuracy and dependability though, its a great saw dont let anyone kid you. I USE these things, seriously use them everyday and its built like a tank.
Hope this gives you something to think about in your decision making!

Jim

[Jim O'Dell]

Jim, I looked at the Ridgid while looking at the Makita, side by side. But I don't need/want a 12". If Ridgid made a 10 slider, I'd be interested. I have multiple Ridgid tools and have been very happy with all of them. Didn't they originally make a 10" slider?
I initially thought that the DeWalt would be high on my list when I started thinking about them last year. Went into HD, grabbed the handle, pulled down, and the blade guard took a nice slice right off of my thumb!!! I looked at it, grabbed it again and s-l-o-w-l-y pulled down and I can see what happened. Where I instinctively grab that handle puts my thumb off the handle where it shouldn't be. But that made me write it off my list.
I do like the bigger table, but this will be on a mobile stand that will park in front of the box bay window when using it, and move out of the way when something else needs to be used there. I can always build extra supports into the table if need be. I'd also rather not have to invest in a variety of 12" blades. I still need to get some more quality 10" ones. Thanks! Jim.

[Bill Huber]

I can't really help you a lot on this, but for what its worth I don't like vertical handles. I am not sure what is on these units but if they have vertical handles I would look for something else.

The laser is another thing I really like but it needs to have two of them, not just one. With two set up for the kerf it make is a lot easier and faster cutting of multiple items.

I have a Hitachi CMS and have had 0 problems with it and it was hauled around in the back of a truck and use by a friend of mine building houses for about 3 months.

[Randy Cohen]

i recently bought and started using the Hitachi 10" scms with the laser and so far i love it. if you never had a laser on your saw like i never had you will really appreciate having one. i use the saw with either hand with no problem. i hate the dust but i think thats the nature of the beast. i'm sure the dust bag helps. the saw is not very loud and i also like the soft start. i got it from amazon and it was delivered for free within a few days. didn't get the rebate router yet.
o...wide stock short length is not a problem for me with this saw...how short do you have in mind? you are right about how smooth it slides.

[Jim O'Dell]

Bill, both the Makita and the Hitachi have vertical handles. The DeWalt that bit me is horizontal. The Bosch I believe has a handle that has a range of positions, so it works well with everyone. Vertical doesn't bother me. The cheap MS I have now is vertical, so I'm used to it.
I did some checking on line a bit ago, and HD does show to have the Bosch saws. I thought I had seen them before. Must be the one I went to in Weatherford just doesn't carry it. They do have a little different mix of products there.
Randy, that is the type of information I'm hoping to see. I really wouldn't think anything less that 10" on the max width of cut. Say a 1X12 to make a smallish box. Do you see any problem with that type of dimension?
Thanks! Jim.

[Steve Leverich]

Jim, I also didn't like the DeWalt's handle but have learned after a few times NOT to put my thumb over the left side of the handle - no lost body parts/skin, but close :eek:

Other than that, I think ALL chop saws are dust problems more or less so I'd kind of eliminated that criteria.

One thing most of the saws have in common is a REALLY CRAPPY hold-down - I had a machinist turn a new post for me that fits the diameter of the woodcraft (and others) cam-operated drill-press hold-down, then replaced the foot with a longer piece of all-thread and a coupler nut so the arm of the hold-down could be high enough to clear the saw fence and the rubber foot could still contact the material. The stock hold-down is a cheesy screw thread (like half a C-clamp) and causes the material to "walk" when trying to tighten it.

I don't remember if any saw I checked did NOT have this problem, but several DID.

For more critical cuts on stock that's not too wide, I've been leaving the slider LOCKED and using it like a regular chop saw - it seems to me that there is slightly less play in the mechanism that way. Either way, the 12" DeWalt (blade is essentially new :o ) makes cuts that feel like they're already sanded, and square enough I can't see daylight at either edge with a square held against the piece. This is with the original blade.

Got mine at Costco - thought I'd missed out, but they got more in with a freebie brad nailer that I needed, rather than a 9.6 volt (!!?!) drill like the previous batch :D

Now that I'm used to NOT putting my thumb in the "pinch zone" and have a better hold-down setup, everything else is great... Steve

[Dan Barr]

So what are the Makita LS1013FL, Hitachi C10FSH, and Bosch 4410L?

just curious

v/r

dan

[Jim Kountz]

Wow Jim sorry to hear the Dewalt bit you. I guess its all in the grip but for me to get my thumb anywhere near the guard would require me to put my hand in an extremely awkward way on the handle. Im glad Ive never done that!! I too prefer the horizontal handle over the vertical but again this has alot to do with what we're used to. A buddy of mine that works for me from time to time on some of my bigger trim jobs hates my Dewalt and always brings his own (Makita, vertical handle) we always kid each other about stuff like that, he calls mine Dejunk and I call his a MaSkeeter. They both do a great job and are very accurate and in the end thats all that matters to me above all else.
I think you would be happy with the MaSkeeter!! Go for it!

[Randy Cohen]

Randy, that is the type of information I'm hoping to see. I really wouldn't think anything less that 10" on the max width of cut. Say a 1X12 to make a smallish box. Do you see any problem with that type of dimension?
Thanks! Jim.

i've been making bee hives and cutting 1x9 7/8 boards. they were at one time 1x12's but i ripped them before breaking them down. NP with these.

[Jim O'Dell]

Thanks guys. Yeah Jim, I know I'm grabbing the DW handle wrong, but everytime I grab it, my thumb goes outside the left side of the handle. That's just instinctive for me with that saw. Don't know if it's how high HD has them on display or not, but I was bleeding as I left the store that day!:eek:
I've read a lot of reviews, good and bad for all three saws. (By the way Dan, these are all brands and models of sliding compound miter saws, or SCMS.) I'm leaning a little toward the Hitachi because of the price and the free router, which I could use. But my heart still says the Makita is the best. We'll see. Hopefully someone will put the Makita on sale, or HD will run a friends and family 10% off this month. We'll watch and decide which one is the best overall buy in the end. And if I can't decide??? There will be more sales later. Keep the info coming!! Jim.

[Dan Barr]

We bought a 10" makita SCMS for our Afghan troops when i was out in afghanistan. I trained carpenters for the Afghan National Army (ANA). They did carpentry and rough furniture building for themselves. We built benches, desks, shelves etc. and trained them on various other things as well.

anyway, the 10" Makita SCMS was Awesome!!! that thing could handle anything you threw at it. perfectly smooth cuts, nice form and finish throughout. well designed and solid feel too. I like the safety pull out button too. kept the other afghan soldiers from hurting themselves.

They burned up our dinky tablesaw trying to force feed hardwood firewood through it.

Me personally, I own a Dewalt 12" dual bevel CMS. (no slide) :( its great but it has a little kick to it when you first pull the trigger and the blade begins to spin. once its going though, noce smooth cuts.

happy hunting on your saw.

v/r

dan

[Lee Hingle]

Jim,
I can't speak for the other two saws but I have the Bosch 4410L. I absolutely love it, and every single stop setting was dead-nuts right out of the box. Required absolutely no adjustment whatsoever and still hasn't after a year. If you have any specific quesions about it, I would be happy to help answer.
Lee

[Jim O'Dell]

Thanks Lee. The one question I have about it is the same as the Hitachi. They both have a small table. Have you had any issues with that? Is the Bosch a belt drive like the Hitachi? I know the Makita is direct drive. Oops, that's 2 questions, huh? NOW THREE!!! :D Jim.

[Jim Kountz]

Jim I know you said you didnt want a 12" saw but I was just over at Home Depot dot com and they have their 12" slider refurbished on sale for $379 w/free shipping. I just saw it and thought you may want to know!

[Randy Cohen]

i bet that if you buy any of the 3 or 4 mentioned you will be very happy with it. i think if i were concerned about the support for a wide short piece i would take it to the store and see what its like. sure you can't actually cut it but you could go through the motions.

[Bryan Berguson]

Jim,

I'll cast my vote for the Makita. I have one that is about 12 years old and it's still going strong. I know it's not the exact model you're looking at but it's a testament to their quality. I bought mine used to build a garage (with an upstairs apartment) from a friend contractor and he used it hard but took good care of it. I've put down 2700 sq ft of rustic hickory flooring and cut out A LOT of knots. I got rid of my RAS when I puchased the Makita It's been a workhorse. The only thing I've had to replace was the trigger switch.

I hope you get that Christmas money to buy what you want! :) I'm sure you'll be happy with whatever saw you decide on.

Bryan

[Brian Tillinghast]

Jim,
I don't think that you could go wrong with any of the three. I had the same problem a couple of years ago, same 3 saws. Try to get your hands on ALL of them, that's the only way to tell which features work best for you. I, personally, don't care for the vertical handles. The Makita is one sweet machine, but I didn't like the angle indicator off to the right side. The Hitachi is very nice, usually the cheapest of the 3. Once, again , vertical handle and I didn't care for the little table. I, also, have a 20 year old 10" Hitachi MS, that I can't destroy. I fell in love with the Bosch- multi position handle, great table with great extentions, very solid ,very accurate, and ALL the controls are UP FRONT. I only wish it had twin lasers that you could have on without the blade running. I've been very happy with the Bosch, but find out which one FITS you best. Good luck, Brian

[Ben Martin]

Not to hijack, but I will be making the same decision soon.

Of the saws that he listed, which ones will allow you to turn on the laser WITHOUT the blade running? I know that the Ridgid and it seems Bosch require the blade to be in motion for the laser to work, which I consider a big safety hazard. What about the Makita?

So far the best laser on a MS that I have used have been the twin laser set-up on the Delta, those things are nice, does anyone else offer a system like that?

[Jim O'Dell]

Ben, hijack accepted! :D
The Hitachi and Makita lasers are mounted off the blade, and turn on with separate switches, so can be used without the blade spinning. Both are adjustable to the right or left side of the blade, so you can cut your waste on either side. Jim.

[John Browne]

They're all great saws. The Makita is the only one with a one-piece base (that's why the miter scale is in such a weird location). That keeps the fences coplaner. Some pros have had problems with other saws falling out of alignment after hard use. Some people have had Bosch saws that could not be aligned out of the box. I have the Makita and love it-comes with a terrific stock blade and out of the box was exact enough for box making. The HD price you quoted is $50 less than here (PNW) so I'd jump on it if I were you.

BTW hook up a shop vac to the DC port and it helps. But they all do poorly at DC.

[Jim O'Dell]

Thanks John. Interesting, I went into a different HD today, and the Makita was listed at 499.00 there, not the 449.00 as out in Weatherford. I'm still hoping for a better price. I've seen it, maybe with a rebate, for under 400.00 in the last year. May not happen again soon, but I don't have to be in a hurry to get it. Thanks for the feedback on the Makita. I think I've gone back to it for my #1 choice. I did some research and the Hitachi router that is in the rebate is the fixed base unit. Nice rebate, but I don't need a fixed base router. Jim.

[Ben Martin]

Ben, hijack accepted! :D
The Hitachi and Makita lasers are mounted off the blade, and turn on with separate switches, so can be used without the blade spinning. Both are adjustable to the right or left side of the blade, so you can cut your waste on either side. Jim.

Thanks Jim, no another question.

I noticed that the Hitachi and the Makits features soft-start, what about a brake that will stop the blade when you turn it off?

Also, I have seen the Makita on Amazon a while back for $364, that is the cheapest I have seen it around, I am like you and am in no big hurry to buy, just going to wait for the best deal.

[John Thompson]

I have the 12" Hitachi SCMS and love it. I had the 10" Hitachi SCMS and loved it also... but had a golden opportunity to get the 12" for around $150 off. The 12" allows me to cross-cut hair under 5" stock which I quite often encounter. The 10" was just a hair under 4".. so the reason for the switch.

Have used the Makita and it's an excellent slider also. I can't speak for the Bosch or DW personally.

Sarge..

[Gary Herrmann]

Jim, I've got the 12" Bosch, so can't speak directly to the 4410, but I really like mine. Dead on 90 and 45 out of the box.

[Bob Feeser]

Jim, IMNSHO Makita. Hands down. Some very nice ones out there, but Makita.
Read my review (http://www.amazon.com/Makita-LS1013-Slide-Compound-10-Inch/dp/B0000223I3/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1197865260&sr=1-7) Amazon chose it to be a featured review, 2nd one down called, "Simply put, It's the Best Compound Slider Out There. Period" A word of caution. I wrote that review in response to people who were abusing the saw, then complaining when it broke, giving it 1 star. Letting lots of strangers use your saw, and starting the plunge before the motor gets up to speed, causes a kickback, with the workpiece being hurled through the back of the saw, thereby bending the fence. I know because I made the same mistake twice, and hopefully will never do it again. I had to re-straighten the fence when it happened. Spin first, plunge second, like when you start a router, and make sure it is not touching the work. That is all... Anyway, it is all in the review.
That review is on their standard model, they have ones with lights, lasers, etc now.

[Jim O'Dell]

Thanks for the continued information. Bob, I read your review, and a slew of others. Just didn't know it was "you" that wrote it! Jim.

[Bob Feeser]

Jim,
I noticed you are price shopping. At the time I bought the LS1013, I didn't really need a second one, since I already had the LS1212, but I saw that Amazon had a special going on. They had a $50 instant rebate on the Makita, with a starting discounted price of only $449, so that meant I would be getting it for $399, then on top of that, Makita was running a special, giving away their 14.4 cordless drill, the less expensive one with plastic gears, if you bought the saw. Since the drill was a $100 drill, I went nuts and bought the saw. I figured at first that I would sell the Makita drill on eBay, and recoup some of the money on the saw. The only problem is that I fell in love with the drill too. I have a Milwaukee 14.4 which weighs something like 12 pounds, has carbide serrated teeth in the chuck, tons of torgue, and has a hammer setting for getting through concrete, but I rarely use it. I always go for the Makita, which weighs only about 3 1/2 pounds. Does everything that I need it to do. If I was out buliding decks all day, I would use the Milwaukee.
I paid full price for the LS1212. So you can see that I have Makita DCMS fever, and for the price of the 1013, I was happy to have 2. Unfortunately, I don't really use the 10 very much, but I have a whole house worth of trim work to do, so the portability will come in handy, and I don't have the heart to sell it.
One final note, I realize there are a lot of fine compound sliders out there, and it has been a while since those magazine articles back in 2004, quoted in my Amazon review, so my enthusiasm may have blinded me to what is available out there now. So if you have a saw that is giving you accurate cuts, then that is all you need. Now if you want to hear about a beautiful saw, Let me share with you my experience with my $525.00 Sears Professional Radial Arm saw, that doesn't even hold a detent 90 within a few degrees. Ouch. What was I thinkin? :eek:

[Ben Martin]

Jim, just thought I would add that the Makita is also assembled in the USA. Where as the Dewalt was in Mexico, the Ridgid box was too heavy so I didn't check, but would assume Taiwan (where my TS3650 came from. And I would be about 99.9% sure that the Hitachi didn't come from the US either.

So I guess my decision is made, the Makita it is, now I just need to wait for the right price and jump on it. I just got a 10% off coupon for HD which would bring it down to $449, maybe I will get some gift certificates for X-mas....

[Paul Joynes]

I purchased the Bosch saw that you are looking at and have no regrets. The saw is belt drive which means that you are able to bevel the saw in both directions. The adjustable handle works well and I have used it in both Left and Right hand orientations. As mentioned above, the laser is only on the left hand side of the kerf and would be more useful if it was on both, secondly, it only illuminates when the blade is rotating. While this is ok, it would be better if you could start the laser without starting the saw. All tools required to adjust the saw and change blades are carried on the saw's body so it is easy to find the tools when using the saw away from the shop.

There is a 12 inch version of this saw but I would think twice before purchasing it. This saw is heavy enough as is and the 12" version would be even heavier. I like the fact that it takes the same sized blades as my TS. We installed composite decking two summers ago and had to buy a 10 inch blade with 24 teeth or less to cross cut the plastic material. After looking online for a while, I decided to buy a 10" x 20 toothed ripping blade from Forrest that could later be used on my TS. Finally, when I found out that I could crosscut a 4x4 fence post, I was sold. The only reason that you would need a 12 inch saw would be to install extra wide trim such as crown moulding.

If my saw was to crap out tomorrow, I would go and buy the same one again.

Paul