Pen Turning Help

[Mike Goetzke]

I haven't turned for about a year. I have only turned pens - maybe 10 of them. I got some nice spotted cherry blanks to turn. Everything was going well but close to the end of my first blank a piece chipped out at the end. On the second one I mistakenly hit the piece in the middle when going to make a pass and blasted out the second. I'm not going to give up but I'm looking for hints.

I have a large maybe 1" gouge and a smaller maybe 3/8" Pinnacle pen set gouge (the Pinnacle set also has a "V" shaped, and beveled tool). I have been using the gouges only.

Should I be switching tools toward the end?

Should I use the larger or smaller gouge/tools?


Thanks,

Mike

[Dustin Cranford]

Hello Mike, all I do is turn pens. I haven't been turning long, but have learned alot from a few guys. I use a round nose scraper to round out my blanks. Seems more forgiving and easier to sharpen. You can also use it to turn down to the pen size and shape you want, but will require more sanding, so overturn the bushings just a small amount for sanding.

I now use my round nose to round out the blank. After it is fairly round I use a skew for everything. The skew cuts alot cleaner and does not require nearly the sanding. Most of the time when done it almost looks and feels like it doesn't need sanded at all. Hope this helps you some.

[RL Johnson]

Dustin is correct. Anyone who turns spindles should learn to turn with the skew. I always hated sanding and the skew lets me cut right down to the bushings and you can start sanding at 240 or 320. One of the things that I do, is that when the blank is round to practice your cuts on the material that will be removed. That way when you mess up you have extra material before you get to the final shape to practice on.
Best of luck.

[Larry Rupert]

I'm wondering if you are using good sharp tools, or maybe trying to take too much down too fast? I've used roughing gouges from start to finish, going gently, without a problem. Seems like the only time I ever had a problem like you mention is when I got lazy and didn't sharpen for a while... FWIW - Larry

[Dan Forman]

Sounds like you might not always be riding the bevel. Make sure you touch the workpiece with the bevel of the tool first, then raise the handle until the cutting edge engages. Let the bevel support the tool as you are cutting.

Dan

[Dean Thomas]

I think I used this analogy here on the SMC forums, but it still works: There are MANY ways to skin the cat called pen turning, Mike. Over the month of November, we had 4 Freedom Pen turn-a-thons here in KC. I watched up to 11 guys per Saturday turn pens. None of them did it the same way!! And all of them did a creditable job. The only variation that I did not see was the use of 32-grit paper as a roughing tool. :p

I watched one man turn the entire pen with a roughing gouge. Another used nothing but a 3/8" parting/beading tool. Another used his spindle gouge from start to finish. A couple used a skew the same way, one a traditional skew, one a 1/4" round skew, and a third a 1" oval skew. Another used his 3/8" bowl gouge start to finish. And most used a combination of tools. Again, all the pens looked fine at the end. some of them had to work harder than others to get to the end, but the results were just dandy.

If I read your post correctly, I think I understand that you're using your scraper as a roughing tool? Again, you could use a screwdriver or a good stout thumbnail, but those would really not be "the" tool for the job. Scrapers are primarily finishing tools. When you sharpen them, conventional wisdom says that the burr formed from sharpening a conventional scraper is the cutting edge, just as it is in a cabinet scraper. When that fine burr formed from a 100 or 80 grit wheel comes in contact with the spinning edges of a block of wood, you can imagine that the burr goes away immediately. You'll get more done faster and more efficiently with an actual cutting tool rather than a scraper. It's worth the effort to learn. Pick up some 2x4 stock and drill mock pen blanks with skinnier holes so you can mount wood to mandrel without having to tube them, and practice. SPF tends to be really kind when you use sharp tools correctly and really stubborn when you don't. It's a great teacher because of that. Worth the 30-60 minutes of time invested to learn a new tool well enough to make a huge difference.

We can't help you with the darned "oops" type errors that we all commit like your whack to the middle of your pen blank. We can't help you with flaws in the wood. What we can help with is encouraging you to make sure your tools are WAY sharp and to help emphasize the need for good tool technique and good tool choices. Important stuff. Makes turning so much more fun.

One tip. If you have an end chip out, you can turn that end flush and glue on another piece of wood and save the blank. Use something that is dense and without pores if at all possible (ebony, cocobolo, blackwood, maple) to form a nice little disk to take the place of the nicked wood. Makes for even more interesting pens, IMO.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Mike........you've gotten some pretty sage advice so far.

When I first started turning pens, I used a 3/4" roughing gouge, a spindle gouge and a parting tool.


Now the only tool I use on pens is a skew. I use a 3/4" Robert Larson but brand name isn't important....it's just a standard straight 3/4" skew.

A couple of things I have experienced that caused blowouts:

1. The almight "catch"....typically caused by improper tool application...usually because I'm not riding the bevel.

2. Improper gluing of the blank to the brass barrel. If a section of wood isn't adhered well to the barrel....it's prone to busting loose...IMHO.

3. Weak wood....I have had some pen blanks that the wood was just "puncky" weak and prone to breaking.

If you decide to try the skew (my favorite tool in all my turnings)......watch the angle of the bevel...if it's too shallow it's prone to catching........and sharp...sharp .....sharp......I grind and diamond hone. I'm working on a Christmas ornament currently and the only 2 tools I'm using......spindle gouge (sharpened to a detail profile) for hollowing and the skew......once you learn to effectively use a skew you'll fall in love with it.


How ever you approach your problem....You are not the first to have experienced it and you won't be the last!..don't give up ....and good luck!

[Mike Goetzke]

Thanks for all the great help. I need practice and maybe a book or video (any suggestions)?

BTW - I had much better luck using a different species of wood. I think the "spotted" cherry had soft/hard spots. I made the two pens with some Brazilian cherry in no time at all. I used the small gouge and took the last few cuts with the skew. You guys are right the finish with the skew was tons better than the gouge.


The style is called WallStreet II. I have a friend/co-worker that was close. He got his MBA and went into invertment banking. He recently left the area for a BIG job in the Houston area. I wanted to give him a gift that he would use.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/Turning/th_IMG_1674_1.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/Turning/IMG_1674_1.jpg)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/Turning/th_IMG_1680_4.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/Turning/IMG_1680_4.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/Turning/th_IMG_1679_3.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/Turning/IMG_1679_3.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/Turning/th_IMG_1678_2.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/Turning/IMG_1678_2.jpg)




Thanks,

Mike

[Justin Bukoski]

Mike, if you have some suspect wood you can use very thin CA glue to stabilize it once you have the blank round.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Mike Penn State Industries has a free DVD on pen turning that is pretty good. I also recommend the book by Barry Gross or a couple by Dick Sing.

[Brian McInturff]

Mike, looks like a bang up job to me. I don't see anything wrong with your pens. They look great! As you will learn with anything, practice makes perfect. And we all love to practice!!:D

[Mike A. Smith]

Looks like you're doing OK Mike. Looks like you've gotten lots of good advice here, just keep at it!

[David Drickhamer]

Nice job on the pens.

When I find a wood that likes to chip out or is real punky I found soaking it in MinWax Wood Hardner over night and then letting dry for a day or two will help.

As stated earlier, regardless of what tool you use, make sure it's sharp.

Keep up the good work.

[Johnathan Bussom]

Mike,
It looks like you have already gotten a lot of great advice! Practice, practice, practice seems to be the name of the game and don't ever get discouraged.

It seems like when you think you know it all and are really doing great a little mishap will occur as it has to all of us....???? and you have lost a piece, many of us admit it others won't!!!

I do agree with others to try the skew, learn to sharpen first though and then think before you touch the wood, presentation means a lot.... if you have an intrest in learning the skew here is what I would recommend...

Here is how I learned.... drill a 5/8 hole in a 2x2x6 about 1" deep, then turn a 5/8ths tenon on another piece of wood mounted either in a chuck or on a faceplate so your first piece fits snugly but not real tight, bring the tailstock up to hold in place. ONLY use the skew, bring it down to round, then play with it!!!!

You may have catches but it ain't gonna scare you too much cause the wood will stop without too much pressure which is good till you learn, then the fun begins:D when you get to thinkin you know what you are doing.

I also recommend to watch some videos, if you do you will see even the xperts such as Raffan have little catches at times so don't feel too bad about the problems you had.

I took a pen to work with me one day with a celtic knot to show off and my boss scooped it up from me without really looking at it then made excuses where it went when I checked his pockets next time he came around, I told him I was glad it was gone since it was the scruffiest piece that ever came off my lathe with a chip out by the neck and I would never offer it for sale even to my co-workers much less to him.... Lesson learned needless to say, now when I take any pens to work they are in my display case with a price tag!

[Dean Thomas]

One other quickie note, Mike. Something someone taught me a long time ago was that a craftsman is judged by other craftsmen, not necessarily by the quality of his work so much as by how cleverly and effectively he fixes the goofs!

For the FPP turnathons in KC, one of the members gave me some hickory blanks that had been cut on the bias. 40% of those blanks chipped out on the ends. [And I won't even begin to guess how many red alder blanks busted out; yoy!] The grain was fantastic in those pieces, but when a 45º, 3/8" long chunk goes flying across the room, or into the trash, some folks just gave up and went back to turning walnut and maple. I talked to a couple of very careful turners and asked if they were up for a challenge. When they said yes, I explained what the hickory was doing. They took their time, especially near those especially tender ends and successfully turned hickory pens. Another turner whose work I've admired from afar was close by and noticed the great movement in the grain and said, "That's too pretty to lose. Can I take the busted ones home and fix 'em?" YOU BETCHA!! They came back the next week with little rosewood collars on the ends where the wood had shattered and scattered about the room. And in one void in the middle of the blank, he glued in some great purple sparkly glitter. The finishes were impeccable and his "craftsman rating" rose very high in my book.

There are numbers of folks who'll share with you that we do not ever get catches, we get design opportunities. If ya blow it, you work with what you have left and make something else. Isn't that how toothpicks were invented? ;)

Keep working and learning. From where you said you started to the pix you provided, you've already made a leap. Good job!!