Would appreciate a little help with Waterlox

[Anne Gray]

I'm concerned that I might not be using this product as well as I should. I am applying the sealer/finish to kitchen cabinets with terrycloth applicators. While the product says that sanding is not needed between coats, I found that if I dont sand (or use 0000 steel wool, or do a little wet sanding) it doesnt feel silky smooth. But sanding or using steel wool, even if I feel like I'm being very gentle, seems to take off enough finish that I feel like its two steps forward, one step back with each coat. On the areas that I have applied 6-7 coats down grading from 320 to 400 to 600 or so sand paper each coat, it looks pretty good, but I dont feel like I'm being efficient.

So, do I need to learn patience, or better techniques? How does one "build" layers without making it feel rough and a little gunky?

thanks,

Anne

[Steve Schoene]

That is the catch 22 with finishes that don't need sanding between coats. But you don't need to sand between each and every coat. Since even oil based finishes can raise the grain a bit, sanding after the first coat makes sense, and then sanding after every two of three coats works. In particular, make sure that the next to the last coat is well sanded so defects won't carry into the final coat.

[mike holden]

When a product says it "does not need sanding between coats", it is referring to adhesion. Some products need an abraded surface in order to adhere.
"No sanding needed" does not mean that the surface will be smooth.
Mike

[Anne Gray]

Thanks! I guess I'll keep at it then. :) Any opinions on wet vs dry sanding vs steel wool? All seem to work, the steel wool was nice since my fingers could "feel" what I was doing better, but getting all the bits of steel cleaned up vs the sanding dust was a bit difficult. The wet sand paper did *not* stay un-gummed up at the label promised it would :(.

[Bob Childress]

I have had good luck using mineral spirits as the wetting agent and 400 grit wet/dry. Seems to hold up pretty well. :)

[John Hain]

This is something to remember: If you happen to work with large pored woods, sanding after the first couple coats and using the dust to create a slurry with the next coat will fill in the pores quite well. That will save you a wood filler step if you want to go that direction. Just as a light sanding is taking you longer in this instance, on other works it might actually save you a step or two. It all balances out.;)

[Rob Amadon]

Thanks! I guess I'll keep at it then. :) Any opinions on wet vs dry sanding vs steel wool? All seem to work, the steel wool was nice since my fingers could "feel" what I was doing better, but getting all the bits of steel cleaned up vs the sanding dust was a bit difficult. The wet sand paper did *not* stay un-gummed up at the label promised it would :(.

In all likelihood you are not getting all of the shards of steel cleaned up. Which means that you are burying some in your finish. Which means that as water vapor transfers through the finish the shards will rust leaving little dark specks in the finish. That is why it is recommended that you only use steel wool after the final coat and not in between coats.

I sand with 400 grit, dry, between coats. A light sanding is usually all that is required.

Rob

[Anne Gray]

Thank you all! These are the only ones that are almost done, but with the advice and help I got here, I bet the next ones will go faster and more smoothly. I did what I believe to be the final coat yesterday- a few areas may need a bit more work, and maybe rubbing out? Still just a tiny bit rough/tacky feeling.

I have read a number of references here to putting a final coat of wax over waterlox- is this a good idea? Functional vs aesthetic? I want to protect them really well, but I dont need them looking glossier, if that is what wax does. Does it add water protection? Does it last very long?

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i20/aegdvm/P1030788.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i20/aegdvm/P1030789.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i20/aegdvm/P1030790.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i20/aegdvm/P1030792.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i20/aegdvm/P1030793.jpg

[Jim Becker]

Hey...that one cabinet is looking at me! Hi, cabinet!!! :D :D :D

Seriously, very nice work, Anne! They look great!

[Anne Gray]

Wow! It *does* look like an eyeball! I guess that could look weird to some- oh well, not doing this to sell!

I decided that if the cabinets were going to be custom, I'd make them unique! Luckily, my dad (cabinet builder) understands. I kept going for the boards with lots of swirls and knots, and he indulged me.

[Jim Becker]

Just tell folks that you got the "eye-dea" from Monsters Inc.... :D

[Matt Day]

I've got a similar "problem" as Anne mentioned: "I did what I believe to be the final coat yesterday- a few areas may need a bit more work, and maybe rubbing out? Still just a tiny bit rough/tacky feeling."

I did my last coat on Wednesday night (about 60 hours ago), and it's still a bit tacky. It's been curing in a conditioned space at about 67 degrees. This is on walnut and hard maple.

Should I lightly scuff it with 0000 steel wool to knock it down, then follow up with a coat of wax?

[Sam Yerardi]

Anne,

Very nice work! Another you can try as far as abrasives instead of using steel with water-based materials are the 3M pads, synthetic steel wool, and brass steel wool.

[Steve Schoene]

Matt:

Is this Waterlox? Satin, Original/Sealer, or Gloss? If so, describe a bit more fully how many coats you have applied and what method you used for the application. Rough and tacky are quite a bit different to me--can you explain what you mean?

[Matt Day]

Sorry for not being more specific. I'm using the marine grade Gloss Waterlox, and have wiped on 4 coats. I think it feels a bit rough because it is tacky, if that makes any sense. When I look at it up close, some faint ridges can been seen in the finish, which I think would knock down with some steel wool.

[Steve Schoene]

Tacky is a serious problem since it means the finish isn't curing, yet at 67° it should be beyond the tacky stage overnight at the latest. You could, I guess, get ridges like brush strokes if the solvent flashed off before the ridges could flow out, but that then the curing process had a problem. Is there any chance that the varnish was over the hill?

How about the earlier coats? Did they seem to dry hard before you put on the next coat? If so can you think of anything different about how the final coat was applied?

My advice is to first try patience. You can't do anything until the varnish is no longer tacky. If that happens you can smooth the surface. But steel wool, even artifical steel wool isn't the best for smoothing. For that you want sand paper on a padded block. Steel wool tends to follow the waves rather than just knocking down the peaks. Other than warmth and patience there isn't anything to be done about tacky; if it stays that way you would have to strip everything off and start over with fresh varnish.

[Joe Chritz]

Remember that wipe on finishes have almost no build per coat. That is why it takes several coats to get a decent finish thickness.

You can apply it with a foam brush but it really doesn't help that much.

I normally just knock down the nibs with a sanding sponge in between coats.

Joe