DLSR Cameras

[Jim Young]

I have been searching for a camera and have it narrowed down to two models, Nikon D80 and Canon 40D. (I keep kreeping up on the cost scale) Does anyone have an opinion on which way to go and what is the reason? I have no lenses currently so current equipment isn't a factor.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jim....I am not familiar with the Nikon D80...but I bought my wife a Nikon D40X in June.....she was in Illinois...I was in Idaho....she's the camera queen.......When I met up with her in Illinois with the camera, she didn't use it for 3 days....I was worried. Now.....She loves it! It can go fully Auto for her.....or completely manual.....and every Auto mode in between. First Nikon we've had.....we are sold on it.

[SCOTT ANDREWS]

Jim,
I have the Nikon D50 and love it.The 80 has more features in it,but unless your using it professionally,you won't miss them.As with Ken,this was my first Nikon.I will never own anything else.The 80 is a very nice camera that I doubt you would ever outgrow.

[Bruce Page]

I have a Nikon D40x heading my way with scheduled delivery on Monday the 17th. It will be my first DSLR and I'm pretty excited about it. I bought one of the “kits” that comes with the Nikor 18-55mm & 55-200mm lens both with VR along with several other goodies from Cameta in NY.
We have a D80 at work that our photohag (her term not mine) absolutely loves.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Bruce.........I bought that same kit for my wife and she loves it! Congrats!

[David G Baker]

I am still looking at the Nikon D80 but haven't had the $. From all the looking and reading I have done over the past few months the D40X is an excellent camera. Like Scott said, the D40X is pretty much all you need unless you plan on shooting professionally. I am also looking at the VR lenses.
I have not researched the Canon brand digital camera but from past experience, Canon does make a fine product but you have to do the research to find the model that fits your needs.
I check the reputable camera stores daily looking for a drop in price. Maybe after the holidays or when the camera becomes obsolete.

[SCOTT ANDREWS]

I am still looking at the Nikon D80 but haven't had the $. From all the looking and reading I have done over the past few months the D40X is an excellent camera. Like Scott said, the D40X is pretty much all you need unless you plan on shooting professionally. I am also looking at the VR lenses.
I have not researched the Canon brand digital camera but from past experience, Canon does make a fine product but you have to do the research to find the model that fits your needs.
I check the reputable camera stores daily looking for a drop in price. Maybe after the holidays or when the camera becomes obsolete.


David
Circuit city has all their Nikons and all other DSLR's on sale right now.The D80 is discounted extremely well right now.Good luck.

[Andrew Nemeth]

Jim,

Do you own a Delta or Powermatic? Ford or Chevy? You will be happy with either brand as both make very nice cameras.

As for the specifics of the two models you are interested in I can't help you as I have not made the switch myself to Digital (I'm still shooting slides). Most of my friends who work in the Art and Design world are shooting Cannons and most of the people I know who are doing journalism (sports, or other fast moving subjects are shooting Nikons.) I think this might be because the first generation Nikon DSLRs had very fast frame rates compared to Cannon but Cannon had a better CCD (The part that replaces film and turns the light into digital information). I don't know if either of these two trends still exist. If either model has a full sized (same size as a 35mm negative) CCD I would go with that one as you will have a much better selection of reasonably priced lenses (which is where the real money is). Otherwise, look at the reviews and prices of the lenses you want as there may be a bigger price and quality difference there than in the bodies themselves.

I don't know if that really helps any,

-Andrew

[Mike Henderson]

I bought a Nikon D100 when they first came out. Nice camera but...

The 35mm camera is a certain size because that is what was needed to carry the film. And the lenses are a certain size because of the size of the negative.

Now that we have digital, those restrictions are removed. A very good digital camera can be quite a bit smaler than a 35mm camera and produce excellent pictures.

Both Nikon and Canon came out with digital bodies that replaced the film bodies because many people had large investments in lenses and they didn't want to strand those people. If those people were to "start over" they might go to a competitor's camera.

If you don't have a bunch of lenses, look at smaller and lighter digital cameras, especially if you're not doing professional work.

The problem with digital cameras, even Nikon and Canon cameras, is that they're going to be obsolete in 4-5 years - the technology is changing that much. For example, my Nikon D100 is now obsolete (I sold it a while back because of that and got pennies on the dollar).

Mike

[Glenn Clabo]

I'm a Canon guy and have a large collection of lenses. Like tools, because that's what cameras actually are after all, there are all kinds of opinions and each are right. If you are not going to get real seroius...I wouldn't get hung up on DLSR...the smaller cameras will have more than enough picture quality...and will be more likely taken along for the trip. Here's a place that has information to help you decide for yourself...
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs.asp

p.s. - Does this sound familiar? "It's not about the tool (camera)...it's about the operator." Whenever anyone says that they love one of my pictures..."you must have an expensive camera"...I say...That's like saying...Nice meal chef...you must have expensive knives.

[Todd Burch]

If I were making a decision today, I would go with the Nikon. I started shooting Nikon back in '84 when I won a Nikon FG at work. I have lots of lenses.

However, I've been mentally leaning towards Canon in recent years because of the higher end digital video cameras and the opportunity to switch out lenses there too with the DSLRs. Again, mentally leaning. (I just bought a nice Sony HD video camera - so the Canon shift has been deferred indefinitely).

From what I've head and read, the D80 is an excellent Camera. I think Jim Becker has a D80, or his Dr. SWMBO has one - don't remember.

Now, looking towards your next purchase - or your kit purchase - if you can't justify spending the $$ for great lenses - then just go with the cheaper camera and get whatever deal you can get.

My last Nikon camera N90s sucked (film camera). Worst camera I've ever had. It CANNOT take a sharp picture - but I think mine was just a lemon. Nikon even tried to fix and could not. (Don't let this cause you to lean away from Nikons - they are great cameras - just don't be lazy like I was and not take it in before the warranty runs out)

Todd

[David G Baker]

Thanks Scott. I will take a look at Circuit City for the D80.

[Jim Becker]

The D80 is a VERY nice camera...the successor to my D70 with even better specs. The Cannon is also very well thought of. Both names have very good credibility in this space and many of us make the decision based on previous ownership, especially if there are lenses already in the house. I've always been a Nikon guy, so that's where I stay. But I'm sure that I'd be perfectly happy using the Cannon since the bottom line is the photography!

[Scott Shepherd]

I have Canon products and have for over 20 years. I have seen stunning shots with Nikon and Canon products. Personally I think both cameras you mentioned are outstanding units and you'd be happy with either. You really could flip a coin and not lose. It's always been interesting to me how people say one is better than the other, yet when someone reviews two photos of the same things, taken by different models, you can't tell me which one was shot with what?

I think there are other tools that are far more important, like the lens, as well as the monitor, calibration equipment, and software used.

If you shoot any of those models in "Auto White Balance", then it's going to get the color wrong. Not by much, by a few 100. Having the knowledge and ability to correct that is important (to me). I have shot regular Canon lens as well as Canon's "L" series lens. The lens quality makes an amazing difference. In my opinion, the lens is far more important than either body you mentioned.

I speak to people all the time who do crazy things- they take photos on their $2000 camera, then they look at the images and adjust the colors on a monitor that's not calibrated (they don't even know what that means), then they upload their photos to be processed and the people at the processing center adjust the color, and the people who took the photo are completely unaware of that.

You'll need some software to process your images. The two big ones are Aperture for Mac's and LightRoom for Mac's or PC's. I have used Lightroom for almost a year now. I love it. It's really a great way to manage, adjust, and share all your photos. Neither program will destroy the original image. So you can crop, convert to black and white, or tweak it anyway you want and it never destroys the original.

Sorry, I got to rambling :) Either one would be a great camera. Go put them in your hand and see which one feels best in your hands. Pick that one.

[Jim Becker]

Scott, thanks for your comments on LightRoom...it's been on my radar since it was announced. Also, since you bring up monitor calibration, is there anything available that is "reasonable" cost for a rank amateur photographer to do that? That's the one thing that I absolutely must to do stop fudging it when printing on paper.

[Glenn Clabo]

Jim,
There many tools...wide range of prices.
http://www.outbackphoto.com/color_management/cm_08/essay.html

Try this too start...it may be good enough for what you do.
http://www.photofriday.com/calibrate.php

[Tom Godley]

I do not think you can go wrong -- They are both very nice - As long as that size/ features is what you need. I have found that Canon does a little better job on the interface with the "near professional" line of camera. I also think that you still pay a very small premium for the Nikon name when looking over the spec's.

It is even more important today to buy a camera for what you want to use it for. Since the need to hold the film is no longer driving the size of the camera -- a smaller camera is often better for how most people use a camera. The other reason is-- it will just be shelf art in a few years next to your crystal timed turntable.

I had a very interesting conversation regarding this with a local pro last month - the guy sells very large landscape prints. We started talking "bodies and lenses" (read -- old film stuff) after I asked what he used to make these large prints. He told me he uses everything! ----- from "all in one digital" to large format 40 year old film cameras. To see the prints next to one another, you would be surprised --- I could not pick out what came from what.

I was also surprised to learn of the current value of the old Nikon film based bodies and lenses. This stuff was almost worthless 5 years ago - but because of the availability now of great and somewhat affordable digital backs -- the value has shot up. Thankfully I am a "pac rat" and still have my old Nikon stuff! I always felt it was "Too Good" to give away (like my turntable)

I have never been much of a "snapshot" picture taker -- but when I want to do that kind of picture -- the smaller the better works for me. I have a tiny Nikon that works great -- But I actually like my smaller Canon better. Both attempts at near professional (One Canon one Nikon) digital have left me wanting - and poorer!

It is also best to go and look at the units because you want to buy based on what is current -- every six months the reviews have Canon up -- then Nikon.

I would be interested in what folks actually do with a D80/C40 - that makes it worth the extra bulk.

TAG

[Christopher Stahl]

Jim, the best you can do is go to a shop that has both and hold them in your hands. Which ever one feels better is the one you should pick. Play with the controls and make sure everything feels comfortable. That is the simple answer.

Truth is the cameras are far more capable than we can ever get out of them. Nikon and Canon are top quality manufactures, so you won't be making a bad decision either way. You'll just be buying into those systems.

I personally use a D200 and just picked up a D50 that I'm having LifePixel convert to IR. I've been wanting to convert a body to IR for a while. :)

For Mike Henderson:
The D100 is far from obsolete. I know many people that use it and they take fantastic photos. Not sure why you would believe that.

For Jim Becker:
There are quite a few choices in inexpensive monitor calibration equipment. Here are a couple:
http://www.colorvision.com/index_us.php
http://www.xrite.com/home.aspx

I personally have the Spider 3 from Colorvision and works very well.

I have both Lightroom and Aperture, and I still lean toward Aperture. Once again, both are very good. If I need to do a bit more work on a photo, then I use Photoshop CS3.

[Tom Godley]

Christopher - I like that IR conversion.

Do you take any now using filters?

I enjoy that kind of photo taking - although I have been out of it for many years -- sort of my problem with woodworking!!


TAG

[Jim Becker]

Christopher, I just ordered the Spyder2Express...$65 (Amazon) is very reasonable and it appears to be fine for my needs.

[Christopher Stahl]

Jim, I think you made an excellent choice. Colorvision makes great equipment. Let me know how you make out with it.

Tom, I have tried shooting IR with my D200, and it doesn't work very well. There is an IR blocking filter over the sensor which makes it very difficult. Each newer model has a stronger filter. The D70 works well with IR, but I think the best way is to let LifePixel convert the camera. I'm pretty excited. I love IR photography. :)

[Cary Falk]

I have the D80. I love it. It is way more camera than I will ever need. I over bought so I wouldn't have to buy another one in a few years. Both Cannon and Nikon make great cameras. I don't think you can go wrong with either. I liked the way the D80 felt in my hands. I bought a DSLR for the rapid picture taking abilities. The quality of the glass is more important than the camera. That's all I have to add.

[Bill Huber]

All of the DSLRs that are out there today are very good, it just has to come down to the feel of the camera and what you want in a camera.

Olympus just came out with the new Olympus E-3.

Some things to think about with this camera.
It has image stabilization (IS) in the camera body, not in the lens. This saves money in not having to put it in the lens.
It has live view like some of the other have now plus the LCD will turn and rotate so it can be viewed at any angle, over your head down on the ground or from in front of the camera.
It has the dust shaker in it and Olympus was the first to come out with this system.
It is sealed from dust and water, you don't have to worry about shooting in the rain.
It is smaller them most of the DSLRs in its class, it does have a smaller CCD and it is what is called 4/3.
The form factor on a 4/3 cameras is 2x, smaller lenses overall.
The body is magnesium and the camera is built like a battleship.
It has every feature that all the others have plus more.

Now if you want a little cheaper camera take a look at the Olympus 510, great little camera for the money.

By the way, I love mine E-3.


The E-3
http://www.olympusamerica.com/e3/index.asp

The E-510
http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/product.asp?product=1295

[Chris Kalkowski]

I own a D100 6MP and work with the D70 and D2X at work- I love Nikons. I have had Canon and they are great to but the optics on the Nikon are fantastic.

[Ted Shrader]

Jim -

Either camera model/system will deliver outstanding results - just as the others have said. I have the D80 and am extremely satisfied. I chose the D80 over the Canon based purely on the body shape/size. The D80 is a little larger and fit my hand better.

I got the Nikon 18-135 lens with the camera then picked up a Nikon 12-24 lens. The 18-135 does a surprisingly good job. The 12-24 is outstanding. The key to a good camera system is the lenses you put on the body.

Ted

[Jim Becker]

RitzCamera.com (http://www.ritzcamera.com/static/content/promos/weeklyad.html) has some pretty aggressive pricing on both Nikon and Cannon pro-sumer DSLRs right now. They are not always the absolutely lowest price, but there is typically no tax and no shipping on orders of this size. No forced accessories, either.

[Scott Shepherd]

Or try out www.adorama.com (http://www.adorama.com) or http://www.bhphotovideo.com/ for even better deals. I've bought a lot from Adorama and haven't had any issues with them, plus they have excellent developing services.

Several times a year (and right now is one of them), they do specials for 8"x10" for .99, 11"x14" for $1.99, and 16"x20" for $4.95. No limits either. I save all my printable photos in a special folder and wait for their specials to come through.

If you haven't tried them, they are worth a good hard look.