Another waterstone/sharpening question...

[Joe Cipriano]

Quick question: I'm ordering a set of waterstones from Highland - 200, 1000, 4000, and 10,000 grit. Will I see any major change in edge smoothness following the 10,000 with a strop and chromium oxide compound? Is stroping really necessary for a good edge, or will finishing with the 10,000 be sufficient?
With Christmas rapidly approaching, I'm on a semi-tight budget - if I don't need the strop & green compound, I'll do without. I've got a couple of planes and several chisels that are desperately in need of sharpening - and I promised my wife that I'd sharpen all the kitchen knives (which is partial justification for the purchase...;)).

[Marcus Ward]

I have read some articles in which people indicate that stropping after the 10000 stone actually makes the edge duller, so take that as your guide and buy the stones!! And tell me how they are. I use the scary sharp system and it works great but wouldn't mind having a few stones. As I understand it, the 10000 stone and the green compound are the same grit anyhow, so no point in stropping.

[Steve Wargo]

You may want to change the 200 grit and get a 6000 to 8000 grit stone. Sharpening is removing that scratch patterns left by each previous stone. A jump from 4000 to 10000 may be to big. If you need anything more course than 1000 grit you can always pull out a piece of fine sandpaper. Just my $.02

[Wilbur Pan]

Theoretically, yes. 10000 grit waterstones have particles that are about 1 micron in diameter, and green compound, which I am assuming is equivalent to your chromium oxide, has particles about 0.5 micron.

Whether that makes a difference to your tool or, more likely, the relatively uneven surface of a strop might actually do more harm than good, as Marcus alluded to, is a completely different matter.

Just a reminder: the grits between different systems (waterstones, sandpaper, diamond stones) and manufacturers are not equivalent. Christopher Schwarz had an excellent blog post (http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/True+Grit+Understanding+Sharpening+Grits.aspx) about grit sizes between different methods of sharpening that everyone who sharpens should read.

[Rick Schubert]

David Charlesworth teaches that the only two stones you need are either an 800 or 1000 and a 8000. He says you don't need a size in the middle-just a waste of time and effort. Christopher Schwarz said in a recent article that he buys into this technique as well.

You might want to check out David's sharpening video. You can buy it for $25 or rent it for a week, which is what I did, at Smartflix.com. (Not affiliated in any way with Smartflix)

Rick

[Derek Cohen]

I'll reinforce Steve's advice.

Note that the jump from 1000/1200 to 8000 is OK as long as you are working with microbevels. This is not OK if you are honing full bevels. It will work, but the extra effort (and stone wear) is excessive.

I have a 12000 Shapton. I think it is rated as .9 microns. Veritas green rouge is rated at .5 microns. I always finish on a plain leather strop. This does add that little extra - but be careful. It must be a hard horse butt leather to avoid dubbing the edge.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Don C Peterson]

I use the extra fine DMT diamond plate which is 1200 and then move to a hard Black Arkansas stone (supposed to be about 8000). Once the tool is honed I just take it back to the Arkansas stone or a strop for touch ups.

I got tired of flattening waterstones, and the water mess. Now I use mineral spirits as a lubricant. It works great, there's less mess and no worries about rust if it splashes on tools.

I have some coarser diamond plates but those are strictly for shaping.

[Joe Cipriano]

Thanks for the info. My wife has several knives she's inherited that are fairly chewed up; some look like they were maintained with old cinder blocks - they'll need resetting and full bevel honing; one old plane I've inherited is in the same condition, so I probably need to start those out on a 200. As far as the jump from 4000 to 10000: Apparently, 4000 grit is around 3 micron, 10000 is just under 1, which isn't that big a jump...

http://users.ameritech.net/knives/grits.htm

Ideally, I'd like to halve the grit size for each step (is that logical?). Seems the best progression would be 1000-2000-4000-8000 or 10000 (14, 7.5, 3, and 1.2 or <1micron grit) - but 2000 grit stones are kind of expensive for some reason. The 2000 grit Shapton is $55; Japan Woodworker has a couple for over $60 - about the same as the Ice Bear 10000. Any less expensive?

It's more that I really wanted to spend, but I may spring for the Shapton 2000 anyway...

I'm also considering the Norton flattening stone - does it work well, or would I be better off with float glass and wet sandpaper for stone flattening?

Wilbur - Yup: Chromium Oxide is the "Green" in Green Compound... ;)

Again - thanks for the advice.

[Wilbur Pan]

Edited my post above with the link to the grit comparison article.

[Jake Helmboldt]

Joe, just a note of caution. I don't know what brand stones you bought, but after using sandpaper I decided to get a King combination 1200/8000 stone to augment my sandpaper collection.

Last night I took the iron out of my brand new LN 4 1/2 to put a nice final hone on it. Imagine my surprise when I saw that the bevel was concave. :mad:

Turns out the stone had a nice big crown in it straight from the box. Needless to say I was PO'ed. Created a lot of additional work to undo that damage and get a final bevel while also flattening the stone. I actually ended up doing most of the work on the sandpaper as I always have and got a mirror finish. So be sure to check for flatness before you go to work with those new stones.

[Joe Cipriano]

Wilbur - thanks, man. Looking at that chart (more complete than the link I posted) makes me wonder why someone would spend almost $300 on a Shapton #30000 stone when green compound grit is only 0.01 larger. Stick a thin piece of leather onto a float glass plate, apply green compound, and save about $250...;)

[Joe Cipriano]

Jake - thanks for the heads-up. Sorry about your iron (brand-new LN, on top of everything...). Hence my question concerning the Norton flattening stone.

Have not finalized my order yet. Still trying to figure out which stones to get (I tend to over-analyse and over-complicate everything...:().

[Eddie Darby]

If you decide to do the green honing compound step, I would suggest hat instead of leather as a base, try using it on MDF.

The leather has what is called 'spring back', that actually dulls the edge, as the leather springs back, and wraps around, enveloping the cutting edge.

This is why I have a Shapton Professional 15,000x stone. No 'spring back'.

The new GlassStone series is even better, if you get the diamond lapping plate which is extremely flat. This will allow you to flatten the stone's surface to a very high degree, which in turn will not screw up the blades edge.

If you do use leather, then use only the barest of pressure, to reduce this effect. A good leather strop, is a hard leather, to minimize this effect. Avoiding the leather strop all together, is best!

[John Guarino]

Here is what I wish I had known when I was starting out in sharpening.

There is a contest among sharpeners and methods for the best edge. The answer varies with the task at hand. And there is the variation induced by the different woods. And the special condition of working end grain.

But let's talk about edges. For a straight razor, generally considered to be the ultimate edge, the naked leather strop is the best way to finish. You can get an edge down to a few molecules thick and make it sing while you are doing so. Problem is, a razor blade is too sharp and too thin to work as a kitchen or hunting knife. In woodworking you might need this edge on a marking knife or for inlay -- so do learn to sharpen a razor right down to a few molecules thick. And once you can produce the ultimate edge, you can sharpen the other tools.

For knives or woodworking, think "work sharp" more than "the ultimate edge" and practice, practice, practice systematically. Once you get off the grinder, you can choose from diamond stones, water stones, ceramic stones, oilstones (carborundum, India, novaculite), and sandpaper. The parade of methods is endless and all these systems will work!! So will mixed hybrid systems. I can give a few rules for what happens after the grinder. Some are universal, some depend on the specific sharpening job at hand.


1. The various sharpening systems are indeed represented by different grit scales. Everybody knows the numbers, they are posted all over the web, but the only universal system is the micron scale. The normal recommendation is to go down by a factor of 3 as you move from coarse to extra fine. That is, say 45 or 60 microns, then 15 microns, then 9, then 3, then 0.5 (it isn't a perfect progression, but it's close).

2. Each system gives a pretty good progression from stone to stone, that is, from extra coarse to coarse to medium to fine to extra fine is a good progression no matter whether you use diamond, water, ceramic, or oilstones. Make up your own progression for sandpaper; several are possible. If you stay in a system and follow the progression, you will get mostly good results. I fancy I can tell what stone to use by feeling the surface.

3. Hard alloy steels encounter the diamond stones and/or the waterstones. Oilstones will work, but they are slow. Any piece of steel I can't identify meets the diamond stone first, then I decide how to continue.

4. Carbon steel gets the carborundum, India, and novaculite. Finish with green compound on a hard leather strop. The strop is often overkill, but I like the feel of the blade even though I am soon going to degrade it.

5. You can often start in the middle of a system. For example, if your plane blade is dull but not chipped, you can start with a medium or fine stone. No need to do the full progression. You learn to make these choices by feel and from experience. I fancy I can guess what stone comes first by touching the blade. No way to translate the feeling via internet.

6. A plane blade is usually the sharpest of woodworking tools. Ending up with green compound is great for fine finishing of a future heirloom, but it's overkill if you are jointing edges or dimensioning a board with a jack or a scrub plane. The species of wood and/or end grain are also considerations.

7. For a chisel, things depend on what you are chiseling and how you are chiseling it. Paring is generally done at 15-25 degrees with a beveled blade sharpened like a plane blade.

Chopping out waste with a firmer chisel and a mallet means generally 25-35 degrees. It is fun to hit the chisel, which does not have to be as sharp as in paring. But it is "work sharp" and it will cut you if you mishandle it.

Mortising (big mallet, lotta fun!) generally means 35-40 degrees. If you sharpen the mortising chisel too fine, you'll just chip it.

8. Useful guides
- Leonard Lee, The Complete Guide to Sharpening
(comprehensive guide for woodworking)
- Tom Lie-Nielsen, Sharpening
(comprehensive guide for woodworking)
- John Juranitch, The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening
(perhaps you would like to shave with your axe?)

9. Use a jig if you want, it doesn't make you a wuss. As your skills develop, you won't need it. You need a toolrest for grinding, for safety and for reproducible results. You can design one that will do fine.

10. Some of these ideas apply to carving and turning, but I'll leave them for another time. Think of carving as a graduated progression from rough to exquisitely fine woodworking, and you can pick out what applies and what does not. Think of turning as high speed carving and you won't go far wrong.

Sharpening gives a great feeling of competence and self-control. You are doing what makes all the other good work possible.

[Joe Cipriano]

John:

Sincere thanks for the info (and the time spent on your post). Following your recommendation on grit progression (and the table Wilbur provided), looks like the best progression would probably be:

Norton 220 (60µm)
Lee Valley 800 (20µm)
Shapton 2000 (7.35µm)
Norton 4000 (3µm)
Lee Valley 8000 (1µm)

I prefer not to use a grinder if at all possible; Highland offers a large 200 if I need to go that coarse.

I'm curious about the 12000 Kitayama offered by Japan Woodworking. Read on other sites that it starts as an 8000, then finishes as a 10K-12K as the slurry breaks down. Might be fun to play with - but $80 is an expensive "toy" right now. Has anyone tried out the Kitayama? I honestly doubt I'd need a stone that fine - but I'm a perfectionist (just not enough of a perfectionist to drop $280+ on a Shapton 30000 GlassStone...;))

I'm not proud - the Veritas Mk II jig is on the list... :)

Also - has anyone tried the Norton flattening stone out?

[Joe Cipriano]

...and Amazon has the Norton 8000 stone (1.2µm grit) on sale for $49.99, if anyone's interested...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H6JDFU

[Wilbur Pan]

John:

Sincere thanks for the info (and the time spent on your post). Following your recommendation on grit progression (and the table Wilbur provided), looks like the best progression would probably be:

Norton 220 (60µm)
Lee Valley 800 (20µm)
Shapton 2000 (7.35µm)
Norton 4000 (3µm)
Lee Valley 8000 (1µm)

For what it's worth, this is what I do. I have a set of Shapton professional stones. I go from 1000 to 5000 to 8000. That has given me a very good edge on all of the chisels and plane blades I've used so far.

One thing about the lower grit stones is that it is relatively easy to put a little bit of a dish in the stone if you don't keep on top of flattening. This in turn will make the part of the tool you are sharpening have a little bit of a bump, which will result in a less than ideal edge and performance from your tool.

I find that I flatten my 1000 grit stone about 3-4 times as often as my 8000 grit stone. This seems to be a function of the lower grit itself -- I find that this has happened with any stone in the 1000 or less grit range that I have tried.

As a result, I tend to use wet-dry sandpaper and a flat surface if I have a tool that need aggressive metal removal, as in getting a nick out or if I am rehabbing a used tool when I first buy it.

In your case, I would definitely skip your 220 stone and maybe even the 800. But that's just me. Looking at the brands you're interested in, you might consider getting a set of Norton 1000-4000-8000 stones, or the Lee Valley 1000-4000-8000 stones, or even the Shapton 1000-5000-8000 if you really want to splurge starting out. I'm not sure how true this is, but some people report better results by sticking with one brand, if possible. To my mind, if you are starting off, sticking with one brand will take out one variable as you figure out what works well for you.

Also - has anyone tried the Norton flattening stone out?
Having a good way of flattening a waterstone is key. Keeping a waterstone flat is essential for getting a good result out of it, and I think it may be even more important than which waterstone(s) you use. Every time I find myself unhappy with my waterstones, if I step back and take a deep breath, it's always been because I haven't been on top of keeping the surface flat. There are lots of ways to keep your waterstone flat, but it doesn't really matter how you do it as long as you do it often enough. However, I would stay away from rubbing two waterstones together to flatten them. It's better to use a dedicated flattening surface.

[John Guarino]

Happy to contribute. I found the area of sharpening to be a jungle. Most prescriptions are true under certain conditions, but different conditions lead to lots of contradictory wisdom. The disagreements could be intense, and personal (lotta egos in there). Marketing hype also contributes -- as I teach graduate and undergrad marketing, the field was having a nice revenge on me.

The key to finding the underlying simplicity was to note that the old timers did great work using simple methods, no microscopes, no manmade stones, no modern alloys, and no deep theory. Yet they must have known what they were doing -- look at their work product.

So 19th century methods set me on the way to a modicum of competence. Simple experiments showed that you can see your mistakes. For awhile I used colored markers and a 30x magnifier that shows everything you'll ever need to see. 30x is overkill; these days I use 6x, sometimes only 2x is plenty. Even for straight razors. And 90% of mistakes can be easily repaired, just give it another go.

It gets in your hands and suddenly you can do it.

[Mark Stutz]

Rather than the coarse waterstones, you might consider the DMT diamond stones. Coarse/X-coarse can be used for initial shaping and nick removal, and can be used to flatten the finer grits of waterstones.

[John Guarino]

That's a good point -- the coarse 220 grit waterstone practically melts in my hand when it meets the alloys. Cuts well, but I replace it more frequently than others.

Mine is down below 1/4 inch thick and it could break apart any day. My 800 is still around 3/4 inch. The 1200 and the polishing stone are near full dimension. All started at one full inch, less than a year ago.

For the rough stuff, diamonds are forever. Forever flat, at least.

[Joe Cipriano]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the flattener have a larger surface than the stone being flattened? I ordered some Norton's, and the Kitayama from JWW - all are about 8x3. Can't afford the $120 for the 10x4 DMT DuoSharp right now (the smaller DuoSharp is 8x2 3/8); however, I ordered Woodcraft's 9x12 granite surface plate - that and some coarse wet sandpaper should suffice for both stone leveling and coarse sharpening.

For $30, I doubt the Woodcraft plate is actually "Tool Room "A" grade" (McMaster-Carr sells a Tool Room "B" grade of about the same size for $88...), but I'm sure it'll be sufficient...

Stones ordered:
Norton 220
LV 800
Bester 2000 (JWW was out of the Shapton, and claims the Bester is a better stone - we'll see...:rolleyes:)
Norton 4000
Norton 8000 (On sale @ Amazon for $49.99...:D)
Kitayama 12000 (I just HAD to have one to play with - maybe I can start shaving with my plane irons, and save money on razors...;)).

Plus the DMT knife jig and the Veritas Mk. II. I'll let everyone know how things work out.

Thanks to all who responded; the advice is appreciated - whether I followed it to the letter or not...:D

[Eddie Darby]

I see that you are getting a granite surface plate from Woodcraft.

I would try these sheets on it for the final stages of honing.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=33004&cat=1,43072

"Superb quality, this plate is 2" thick and 9" x 12" overall. Obviously it is moisture and corrosion proof. It is also accurate to ±0.0001" overall (not 0.001" but 0.0001")." - Lee Valley The cost is $31.50 , so it would seem that the roughly same priced Woodcraft plate ( $30.99 ) could be what they say it is.

"Plate is 2" x 9" x 12", tool room “A” grade with calibration certificate." - Woodcraft

[John Dykes]

I use the Norton flattening stone with my Shapton stones - and have been very, very happy with the results. I struggled on what to use to flatten them with, but the Norton is great.

I should point out that I am pretty new to this...

Regards,

jbd in Denver

[Mike Henderson]

I use the Norton flattening stone with my Shapton stones - and have been very, very happy with the results. I struggled on what to use to flatten them with, but the Norton is great.

I should point out that I am pretty new to this...

Regards,

jbd in Denver
I tried the Norton flattening stone and had a problem. My problem was that the flattening stone did not stay flat - as I used it, its shape changed, and that shape was being transferred to the working stones I was using it on.

What I discovered is that you have to keep flattening the flattening stone on a fairly regular basis if you want your working stones to be flat.

And if you have to do that, you can just flatten your working stones on whatever you use to flatten the flattening stone.

I've tried all kind of things and the best I've found is the DMT extra coarse "stone" for keeping my working stones flat. Flattens fast, last a LONG time, and stays flat.

Mike

[Joe Cipriano]

Originally Posted by Mike Henderson

...I tried the Norton flattening stone and had a problem. My problem was that the flattening stone did not stay flat - as I used it, its shape changed, and that shape was being transferred to the working stones I was using it on.

What I discovered is that you have to keep flattening the flattening stone on a fairly regular basis if you want your working stones to be flat.

And if you have to do that, you can just flatten your working stones on whatever you use to flatten the flattening stone...

Yup, Mike. Figured that one out when I read the instructions that came with the flattening stone. IMHO, kind of a waste of money...:mad:

I'll use the surface plate and wet sandpaper to keep the stones flat. The report that came with the plate states that the surface is 2µm peak to valley, which I'm sure is more than sufficient.

[Alan Turner]

I'll throw out a couple of ideas I did not yet see mentioned.

We have the 1000-4000-8000 Nortons set out for constant student use at PFW, and find that due to inexperience, these stones are out of flat frequently, which is the result of not using the entire surface of the stone but only the middle. To flatten the stones, we use a scrap of granite from the dumpster of a local granite counter top shop (free) and lapidary house supplied silicon carbide grit at 80 or 90 coarseness. It is about $5/lb. Use some water, make a mess, and flatten away. Start with your finest stone and keep going right on down to the coarsest. Just keep your eye on the granite with a straight edge and replace as needed.

For lapping chisel backs, for example, we start with a 200 grit lapidary diamond "file" at about $35. Diamonds do wear out, and so the cost can be a factor. They seem to work just fine.

Take a good straight edge to the granite dumpster as not all granite is as flat as one might think.

[John Dykes]

With the recommendations of those here at Sawmill - I checked the Norton flattening stone against a granite plate. The Norton stone is GARBAGE!! - and mine has since been tossed the dumpster.

I broke down for the 100 bones and bought the CMT 10x4 coarse \ xcoarse stone. I'm happy with it... (unless someone guides me better!). It was shocking to see how out of flat my stones were. Bleh...

Point is - listen to Mike and Joe, completely disregard my post.

Regrettably yours...

jbd

[Don Dorn]

This is an interesting thread for me. I'm trying to decide between getting a Jet Wet sharpener, or just sticking with an 800, then 6000 stone. Frank Klausz seems to be fond of using a sharpening wheel on a grinder for the bevel, then using a Japanese stone for flattening and final honing. Mark Adams and Tage Frid just flatten the back, run the bevel on a sander then use a honing compound on a buffing wheel.

Frankly, I'm a little lost and completely confused, but I've really grown fond of working with handtools, but if I can't keep them sharp, that desire will certainly go away.

[Don C Peterson]

My own sense is that no "solution" works equally well for everybody. It took quite a while before I felt at all comfortable that I was using a good system (for me). I'll be the first to admit that my "system" is pretty unorthodox, but I'm happy with the results. I use DMT plates, water stones, an Arkansas stone (with water and Nagura stone slurry instead of oil), and sometimes a strop with green paste.

Above all, it seems that for most of us, our sharpening methods are constantly evolving, and there are very few wrong answers.

[John Guarino]

You should indeed be lost and confused because the methods are constantly evolving. So are the tools and the work required of the tools.

The more I think about this, the more I think the #1 problem in sharpening is knowing what metal you are working. The makers know a lot of detail concerning how their products will react to grinding, diamond, stone, or whatever abrasive. But I often don't know -- until I have experimented a little to see what abrasive will work on a particular tool.

Then come the decisions about the kind of edge needed; bevel angles, microbevels or not, work sharp vs. ultra fine edge, etc.

I am glad there are a lot of systems, because these questions have many possible answers. And until you have these answers, sharpening will always be confusing.

Would it be smart to pick one kind of tool steel, that is, to use only tools with made of O-1 tool steel and sell off the rest? Or make it A-2. Or make it good old fashioned high carbon steel. And keep a few HSS tools for turning.

I have never heard of anybody doing this, but it would greatly simplify the issues in sharpening, save money and time, and allow (or force!) you to develop great skill in sharpening.

[John Dykes]

I'm a novice, so I can't really offer advice - just my experience(s). I started with a LN #4 3ish years ago- which never really worked the way I wanted to. So I put it away...

Never understanding why these fellas always talked about how great handplanes were - I decided to find the #4 - "tune" it the best I could and sharpen it. Not knowing how to sharpen, I did some research - and went cheap. That was the Scary Sharp route - complete with automotive fine grain paper and a slab of granite from Woodcraft (and the Veritas guide). Also bought the Handplane book, and the Lee's Sharpening book...

I suppose the #4 was sharp before - but it wasn't "tuned" or "scary sharp." Wow - what a difference. I started using the #4 for everything.... To be honest, there are times I need to unwind in the shop for just a few minutes - and I'll go out and cut some shavings. I like a sharp tool...

When I bought my type 15 #7 Stanley a few months ago - I felt like I needed more instruction on sharpening - so I bought the David Charlesworth videos. This took me to the next level - and waterstones. I wouldn't go back to sandpaper or a Tormek (my father has one). I hated sharpening on sandpaper - I like sharpening on waterstones (320, 1000, 5000, 8000 Shaptons).

However - I never could cut a quick initial bevel (reference my recent query on that topic). I was guided to the DMT coarse (220) / xcoarse (60) 10" x 4" stone - (which would have been cheaper than a grinder, Norton wheel, and tool rest). I can cut a bevel FAST.... So, again - my thanks to Mike and Eddie for that suggestion.

I do sometimes wonder if my planes are really sharp or tuned. I'd love for an experienced craftsman use one of my planes - or vice versa...

I guess one thing I've learned is - to be "good" with hand tools, you have to be good at sharpening. So sharpening is my starting place.... and I think I'm getting better. I bought a few old Stanleys from eBay - (my first #5's), I'll see where my skills take me.

Good luck -

jbd

[Marcus Ward]

Can you tell us what you like about wetstones that you didn't like about sandpaper? And were you using the 3m Microabrasive sheets? I use the scary sharp method and have had several people comment on how sharp I get my tools but you know you always wonder if you could go further and cut space and time itself... ;)

[Dan Barr]

i go this route;

I put a hollow ground bevel on it before honing. this gives me a toe and heel that allow me to hone quickly because there is less material to hone and i dont have to worry about rocking the bevel or rounding it because i now have two points that keep the bevel flat to the stone.

if your worried about losing strength due to an actual change in bevel angle because of the hollow ground bevel, then increase your bevel angle by 3-4 degrees when grinding the hollow ground. this will return your actual bevel to its correct angle but the heel of the chisels bevel will now be a little higher than without the hollow ground. (increasing the angle can be especially important on mortise chisels.)

hone on the 1000 then 6000 then a quick buff with the green compound on a buffing wheel. the initial honing after grinding in the bevel will take a little longer. subsequent sharpenings will not take long due to the fact that there is less material to remove because of the curve in the hollow ground bevel. you will now hone the bevel away over the next 10-20 sharpenings. once the bevel is gone, re-grind.

no need to waste time with the 10000.

I'll use the chisel for a few solid hours, then, do it over again.

Once you have the inital honing you can save time shaprening hecause of the hollow ground bevel. it shouldnt take but a minute or two per stone. i run the chisel over the 1000 just a few times then on to the 6000 for a few passes and finally the buffing wheel again. then im back to work.


hope this helped,

dan

[John Dykes]

Marcus -

My issue with the "scary sharp" method is most likely borne out of ignorance and lack of good technique. When I realized that I needed to learn how to sharpen, my lack of confidence pushed me to go cheap - thence, scary sharp.

Was I happy with the results? You betcha; overjoyed! Did I show my wife the hairs pop off my arm? Yes - she even pretended to be impressed. But after a few months at it - it bugged me a bit. Clogged paper, worn out paper - seems like I was running through sandpaper like water. And ever trying to save money on such consumables, I used paper long after its useful life - till my arms got tired and my hands ached.

I never used any 3M Microabrasive - I bought the coarse (220, 320, 400, 600) and fine (800, 1200, 1500, 2000) kits from Rockler ($30 each) that have "Klingspor" paper. I replaced the coarse as needed with Norton 3x from HD.

Was I doing something wrong? More than likely... Was I using poor quality paper? Probably so. But I knew something was wrong - but I don't have mentors to show me (except the e-mentor program).

Few books and videos later - I take the plunge on the Shaptons. That said, I would bet that you get a sharper tool on $5 of sandpaper than I can get on $400 of Shapton stones (and now a DMT stone). But this seems to work for me and I enjoy using them - which leads me to using them more, practicing, learning... I'll get there!

Respectfully,
-jbd

[Richard Magbanua]

Here's what I've been doing. Has anyone tried this? I use a combination 1000/4000 stone. I intend to get an 8000 stone in the future, maybe. I saw some metal polish in the auto store and had a thought so I got it. It was "Mothers" brand mag polish. I put it on some mdf with a butter knife and honed my edge and in a couple minutes I got a mirror finish with very little effort. I checked and yes, it could shave arm hair. Sharper than I've been able to get with scary sharp with less time and effort. I used this with all of my irons and chisels with grand results. And that polish couldn't be more than 5 bucks a can.

[Joe Cipriano]

Since I've actually used them now (ok, not on plane irons but on knives - I DID promise my wife...;)), a couple of notes:

- I did need the 220. These knives haven't seen a professional sharpening in about 5 years (kudos to Henckels for putting out cuttlery that holds a semi-useful edge for that long). Took about 30 minutes per knife to reset the 15° back bevel with the 220 without bearing down hard (the 20° primary edge only took a couple of minutes).

If I had started with the 800, I'd probably still be grinding...:rolleyes:. As my inherited plane iron is in worse shape than the knives - yeah, I'll be using the 220...

- The Norton 220 was dead flat out of the box. Half a dozen swipes on the surface plate with Norton 320 wet paper cleared the pencil grid evenly. The King (LV) 800 and Bester 2000?

Not so dead flat. Thanks to Jake for pointing that out.

Took 5 minutes of grinding on the 320 paper to flatten the King. The Bester took a little less time, but now has sandpaper grit imbedded in the stone - obvious grey from the paper in the pink surface:mad:. Didn't appear to impact the effectiveness of the stone - but then I know little enough about wetstone sharpening to where I probably couldn't tell. Tried clearing it with 600-grit - no change. Do I need to worry about this? Is there another method short of a diamond stone (which I can't afford right now) to avoid this?

- I'm pleased with the performance of the stones so far. Our knives are sharper now than at any time since buying them. I won't go any farther than the 2000, as IMHO kitchen knives seem to work best with "teeth".

Time to go play with a plane iron...:D

The other knives my wife inherited are just gonna have to wait...;)