Router Table Question

[Jason Yeager]

Hello,

I am looking for a router table and although I know next to nothing about them, the systems that have a fence that locks parallel to the miter slot via a single lever (incra and kreg?) seem to have serious advantages over the fence systems with two dials that each have to be set. Having never used a table and finding no tables to look at and play with in my area, I would love comments concerning the fence systems. (The better fences seem to add a lot of verstatility and efficiency to the table??)

Many seem to think the best option is to build your own table, although I wouldn't know quite where to start, table size, type, lifts, fences, bases, etc. A dealer I know has a new Jessem mastrlift excel with stand, mitrslide and mastrfence at his cost, $800, which is a good deal, but is still expensive...thoughts??. Thank you in advance for all your insight and help!!

[Andrew Shaber]

A big thing to remember with a router table fence is it doesn't have to be parallel to anything like a tablesaw fence. I have my router table in my tablesaw extension (I hate it that way) and could use my tablesaw rip fence but don't because it just is a pain. I most often use a few pieces of scrap plywood glued at 90 degrees. I clamp it to the saw.

The clamping is the issue. It is hard to get clamps around the fence rails. Other than that, I can easily make precision movements.

[Jason Yeager]

Thanks Andrew,

By parallel to anything, do you mean that the fence can be out of square on the table?? I don't quite understand that, say I was making a sliding dovetail joint on a 8 inch deep drawer, wouldn't the fence adjustment be critical to have a square drawer (the dovetail slot being parallel to the edge of the drawer)??? Why do you hate your router table on the table saw extension?? Thanks

[Bill Huber]

Thanks Andrew,

By parallel to anything, do you mean that the fence can be out of square on the table?? I don't quite understand that, say I was making a sliding dovetail joint on a 8 inch deep drawer, wouldn't the fence adjustment be critical to have a square drawer (the dovetail slot being parallel to the edge of the drawer)??? Why do you hate your router table on the table saw extension?? Thanks

Andrew is correct, it does not have to be square to anything.

You have a round bit so all that you need it so have the bit a given distance from the fence, again it makes no difference if the fence is square to the table.

Look at the quick drawing, it both set ups will cut the same.

76961

[Bill Huber]

Now on the table.

You can make a table out of just about anything, a piece or two of MDF and a piece of 2x4 for a fence clamped to the MDF.

Now there are some things that make it a lot easier to use. Like the fence that moves and locks down and a good smooth top, a lift and a good plate that is flat.

I have a Jesem and really like it, the fence adjust really nice and has a good scale on each end so you can see just what you are doing and how much you are really moving it. The fence on the Jessme is mounted on rails on each end of the table which is different then some, this to me is a very nice feature.
A lift is really nice because you can do everything right from the top of the table and raise it just a little if you want and also change the bits from the top.
You can buy a Jessem Rout-R-Fx lift with a table and fence for around $600 if you look. The fence is made like a battleship and that was one of the reasons I got it.
You can buy the fence and put it on your own table, buy a table and make your own fence there are plans out there to make it all but the lift.

Here is my Jessem and as I have said I really like it. I got the fence, table and lift and made the cabinet.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=64822

This is the cabinet that I made, there are some that have made really nice looking cabinets if you do some searching around.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=65473

[Paul Joynes]

If you are concerned about being square to the fence, simply use the fence as your reference. The right angle sled for my Lee Valley fence works this way. (see image)

http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/Woodworking%5CRouterTableSystem%5C05J2401S2.jpg

This way you don't even require T-Slots in the router table. It is much easier to adjust the distance to the router bit if you simply change the angle of the fence to the bit rather than move the fence since the change in fence distance is approximately 1/2 the change in distance of the fence. I.E. if you want to move the fence 1/16 closer to the bit, you loosen one clamp and pivot about the other. The end of the fence that is being moved is moved ~1/8" closer to the bit.

Paul

[Jason Yeager]

Thanks Bill!

That really helped. Can you make box joints and dovetails easily on your table, or is that capability only with a fence like the incra's? Do you find that the tabletop is large enough? Thanks again for your help!

[Bill Huber]

Thanks Bill!

That really helped. Can you make box joints and dovetails easily on your table, or is that capability only with a fence like the incra's? Do you find that the tabletop is large enough? Thanks again for your help!

I have so far never had a problem with the size of the table top, it is larger then a lot of them and much larger then what I had first.

On the box and dovetails, I have never tried, you can make jigs to do it but I have a PC dovetail jig and it does all the dovetails and box joints very well so I have just never tried it on the table. I do think that a dovetail jig is easier to make the joints then with a jig on the table.
I have a box joint jig for the TS and I just never like it. With the PC jig I can cut a nice box joint the first time and blind dovetails the first time, I have still have some problems with thou dovetails.

[Mike Marcade]

Andrew is correct, it does not have to be square to anything.

You have a round bit do all that you need it so have the bit a given distance from the fence, again it makes no difference if the fence is square to the table.

Look at the quick drawing, it both set ups will cut the same.

76961

More to Bill's point, just imagine you had a circular router table, what would you make the fence parallel to? It just doesn't matter.

[Jason Yeager]

Again, thank you. Sorry for what must be these mundane questions, but wouldn't it be easier for measuring purposes it the fence moved like a tablesaw fence, that way you could simply read the scale for your measurements? Do you set your fence with a tape measure, reading off the fence, or is there an easier way to do that? Seems like that could make repeatability difficult, although I am sure I am missing something. Sure wish I could go play with some to see what is best.

[Bill Huber]

Again, thank you. Sorry for what must be these mundane questions, but wouldn't it be easier for measuring purposes it the fence moved like a tablesaw fence, that way you could simply read the scale for your measurements? Do you set your fence with a tape measure, reading off the fence, or is there an easier way to do that? Seems like that could make repeatability difficult, although I am sure I am missing something. Sure wish I could go play with some to see what is best.

All I use the scales on the end of the fence for are the ruff settings. If I need to know just how far I am away for the fence I use a gauge, it is much better then looking at a line under the fence scale.
I use a Wixey Digital Hieght Gauge that can also be used for distance from the fence.
If I am using a bit with a bearing on it and want to take off small cuts at a time before I get the the bearing I just move the fence a little on one end and make a cut until I get the the bearing.
I really use the scales on each end as a index more then a measurement. I made a mico adjuster for the fence and again I use the scale for more of and index then for a true measurement. I do use the scales to set a base point, like a dado 3 inches from the edge I will use the scales to set the ruff settings. and then check it with the Wixey

http://www.wixey.com/heightgauge/index.html


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=68904

[Jason Yeager]

This is the most helpful site I have ever been to, cheers!! Does anyone know of a system that is easy to adjust via the scales, without having to use an alternate measuring device?? Seems like the incra does that, but I am not sure.

[Bill Huber]

I think you are correct on the Incra, but I am not sure of it I have never looked at one or used it.

But you still have to remember that every bit you use is a different size and your starting cut will be at a different point.

I have my fence set to 0 in the center of the router shaft and just leave it there. I know if I am using a 1/2 bit it will start a cut at a -1/4 on the scale. But as I have said I just us the scale for the ruff settings and an index.

I think if you go here and about 3/4 of the way down the page are 2 video that your question on the Incra will be answered.

http://www.incra.com/product_rtf_lspositioner.htm

[Keith Outten]

Jason,

Given your lack of experience with router tables I might suggest that you make a simple router table and use it for a period of time. You can gain some experience and be able to judge for yourself which features you feel are important to the kind of work you do in your shop.

I have a custom table that I made years ago that is quite complex, built for precision work but I recently built a simple table for our shop at CNU that was made from a piece of Corian. A simple rectangular table, I drilled a large hole in the middle that fits the largest router bit we own and then mounted our router base underneath centered on the hole. I glued two scrap pieces of Corian underneath the table surface so I can clamp the table in a Black and Decker Workmate. Polishing the Corian and coating it with Johnson's paste wax provides a very slick surface that is easy on the arms when I have to edge prep sign blanks all day long. I make fences as I need them. For Corian plaques I use one of the vacuum handle thingy's that people use for lifting/handling glass.

Its not rocket science and a simple homemade table will do a lot of work. Many jobs don't require a fence, using bits with bearings you can edge prep and do some jointing operations. Read as much as you can to learn the basic safety rules concerning speeds and feeds and make sure you either make or purchase jigs to keep your fingers out of the way of the cutter for small parts machining.

Once you get your feet wet you can then start to evaluate the commercial tables based on features and price comparisons. A router table can be one of the most useful machines to own or it can end up being a flat surface to store tools on.
.

[Bill Huber]

Jason,

Given your lack of experience with router tables I might suggest that you make a simple router table and use it for a period of time. You can gain some experience and be able to judge for yourself which features you feel are important to the kind of work you do in your shop.

I have a custom table that I made years ago that is quite complex, built for precision work but I recently built a simple table for our shop at CNU that was made from a piece of Corian. A simple rectangular table, I drilled a large hole in the middle that fits the largest router bit we own and then mounted our router base underneath centered on the hole. I glued two scrap pieces of Corian underneath the table surface so I can clamp the table in a Black and Decker Workmate. Polishing the Corian and coating it with Johnson's paste wax provides a very slick surface that is easy on the arms when I have to edge prep sign blanks all day long. I make fences as I need them. For Corian plaques I use one of the vacuum handle thingy's that people use for lifting/handling glass.

Its not rocket science and a simple homemade table will do a lot of work. Many jobs don't require a fence, using bits with bearings you can edge prep and do some jointing operations. Read as much as you can to learn the basic safety rules concerning speeds and feeds and make sure you either make or purchase jigs to keep your fingers out of the way of the cutter for small parts machining.

Once you get your feet wet you can then start to evaluate the commercial tables based on features and price comparisons. A router table can be one of the most useful machines to own or it can end up being a flat surface to store tools on.
.

Good points, when I think about it I started with a little Bosch and then I decided what I really wanted in a table. I looked at how much I could spend and the features I wanted and went from there.

[Paul Joynes]

The best the scales will do is give you to the distance to the center of the bit. Since the bit diameter changes as you change the bit, the scale can't be used to measure to the edge of bit directly. Obviously you can do the math to get the distance (i.e. If I set the fence at 3" from the bit C/L and it is a Ø3/4 bit, my dado will start 3-((3/4)/2)=2 5/8" from the fence). I find it easier to take a machinist's scale and just measure the distance directly.

Paul

[Bill Huber]

The best the scales will do is give you to the distance to the center of the bit. Since the bit diameter changes as you change the bit, the scale can't be used to measure to the edge of bit directly. Obviously you can do the math to get the distance (i.e. If I set the fence at 3" from the bit C/L and it is a Ø3/4 bit, my dado will start 3-((3/4)/2)=2 5/8" from the fence). I find it easier to take a machinist's scale and just measure the distance directly.

Paul

But on my Jessem you can move and zero the scales to anywhere you want.
But I also agree with you, its just as easy to take a reading, I use the Wixey for this and love it.

[Bill Hylton]

Jason,

I've been using routers, in and out of tables, for better than 20 years. And writing books and magazine articles about this stuff too. Keep that $800 in your bank account until you've gotten some know-how and experience. While you can muddle along by asking questions here and elsewhere, the forum format really limits the range, detail, and comprehensiveness of replies.

I think you really need some basic know-how before you invest time or money in a table setup. You can do a LOT of work on a very primitive table--a router hanging from a piece of plywood and a straight board secured with clamps as a fence.

I'd like to refer you to a book that has information on router table operations. The first 50 pages of this book focus on basic setups: How to change a bit (given different router and table designs), how to adjust its elevation, use a starting pin, position the fence, feed the work through a cut safely, and so on. Other chapters show you how to cut profiles, cut a variety of joints, do frame-and-panel work, and so on. The point of the book is to show you have to USE a router table safely and productively. If you know how to use the tool, you'll be better equipped to design and build a practical, workable table, or to evaluate a product before purchasing.

I'd like to refer you also to a book about general router use. It has quite a few pages devoted to designing and building router tables, and it shows a number of examples, from a very simple table you can make in less than a day from a quarter sheet of plywood, to a benchtop model that uses toggle clamps to secure the router (so you can take the router out of the table in seconds for hand-held use), to more elaborate models.

But the rules here prohibit my mentioning the titles of these books because I wrote them. And so it goes.

Bill

[Jason Yeager]

Thanks everyone for your insight. It makes a lot of sense to learn to swim before I go diving into the lake. I know I'd like a table to make raised panels and custom trim mouldings, but the idea of easily making dovetails and other joints is exciting. I was thinking the router table could accomplish many things for me like slotting for biscuits and drawer bottoms and making dados and rabbets (I don't have a dado stack) in a single tool, which seems efficient. I also dislike the idea of buying something twice, but if I don't know anything, that's probably exactly what I would do. Anyways, thanks again for the help!

[Bill Huber]

stack)

I also dislike the idea of buying something twice, but if I don't know anything, that's probably exactly what I would do. Anyways, thanks again for the help!

I bought a Bosch RA1171 table for $160, I had it for 2 years and sold it for $120 so you don't have to lose a lot of money on what you start out with.

[Art Mann]

If you are serious about mastering the router, Mr. Hylton is offering you some very good advice. I have never met the guy but I must say he has written the best book I have ever read on the subject -- and I have several. ;)

[Mike Marcade]

Jason,

I've been using routers, in and out of tables, for better than 20 years. And writing books and magazine articles about this stuff too. Keep that $800 in your bank account until you've gotten some know-how and experience. While you can muddle along by asking questions here and elsewhere, the forum format really limits the range, detail, and comprehensiveness of replies.

I think you really need some basic know-how before you invest time or money in a table setup. You can do a LOT of work on a very primitive table--a router hanging from a piece of plywood and a straight board secured with clamps as a fence.

I'd like to refer you to a book that has information on router table operations. The first 50 pages of this book focus on basic setups: How to change a bit (given different router and table designs), how to adjust its elevation, use a starting pin, position the fence, feed the work through a cut safely, and so on. Other chapters show you how to cut profiles, cut a variety of joints, do frame-and-panel work, and so on. The point of the book is to show you have to USE a router table safely and productively. If you know how to use the tool, you'll be better equipped to design and build a practical, workable table, or to evaluate a product before purchasing.

I'd like to refer you also to a book about general router use. It has quite a few pages devoted to designing and building router tables, and it shows a number of examples, from a very simple table you can make in less than a day from a quarter sheet of plywood, to a benchtop model that uses toggle clamps to secure the router (so you can take the router out of the table in seconds for hand-held use), to more elaborate models.

But the rules here prohibit my mentioning the titles of these books because I wrote them. And so it goes.

Bill

Wow Bill,

I didn't know you posted here. I can help a little here, one of your books I have is titled Router Magic, it has really impressed me by unlocking lots of the versatility of the router. I really recommend this book. The other book I suspect is Woodworking with the Router, but I can't vouch for this one because I have not read it.

[Jim Becker]

I believe that Bill may have a new book on the market...it shouldn't be hard to ascertain that in this Internet age! ;)

[Steve Leverich]

Nope, not hard at all - just ordered these when I first saw this thread and realized there were a few books I'd missed :D


1 of: Bill Hylton's Ultimate Guide to the Router Table (Popular Woodworking)
Sold by: Amazon.com, LLC
1 of: Woodworking with the Router: Revised & UpdatedProfessional Router Techniques and Jigs Any Woodworker Can Use
Sold by: Amazon.com, LLC
1 of: Router magic
Sold by: Amazon.com, LLCNow, guess it's time to build another book shelf just for wood-working books :o Steve