Chisel question

[Billy Dodd]

Just curious what everyone thinks is the better chisel. An older antique type chisel or one of the newer chisels. I seen in an american woodwworker magazine where they tested some of the new chisels but I thought I would ask the experts. So what type does everyone use?

[James Phillips]

Depends on use. For dovetails try and find s chisel that has not flat edge. For basic use by some blue handles marples. They are cheap, but are made of good steel. They require some flattening and sharpening, but this is a good chance to practice those skills. Once sharp they are as good as any, and I have some good chisels.

[Billy Dodd]

James, do you like the maples better then older chisels? Or do you think that older chisels like keenkutter have inferior metal quality?

[James Phillips]

I do not know anything about keen kutters, but you can get a set of 4 Marples for under $40, so I have a hard time thinking you can do nuch better than that. Buy a diamond stone and a leather strop (sp?) and you can get these things deadly sharp. With mine I can cut curls off of endgrain with little effort, and as most people know that takes an extremely sharp chisel since endgrain likes to crush or tear....

[Bill White]

I have some W. Butcher cast steel chisels. Ya can have 'em when ya pry 'em from my cold, dead hands.
Get the point? But then I also have some old Stanleys that are good.
I guess that I just like the old stuff.
Bill

[Michael Fross]

Might want to post this in the Neander section. We have crazy debates on questions such as this.....

Michael

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I use the chisels I have. It's a default selection I don't even recall how I got 'em. I may have inherited or found them I can't recall.
They are cheap Stanley chisels. I have occasionally considered getting a couple fancy schamncy chisels - just to see if they really do make me 10 years younger, more fit, handsome, healthy, and wealthy but, I don't do all that much chiseling.

Maybe if I started using chisels more I'd feel differently about it.

[Don C Peterson]

I have some of both. I started out using the Marples "Blue chips" and quickly learned why they are cheap. They do sharpen nicely, but don't hold an edge.

Then I started buying some Japanese chisels and found the Matsumura blue steel cabinet makers chisels and I am very happy with the two of those I have. I have been a bit less pleased with the Japanese chisels I bought at Woodcraft, not that they are bad, but they aren't as good as the Matsumura chisels.

After hanging out around here and in the Neander area, I decided to try out some vintage chisels. So recently I picked up two old socket chisels from Union Tool Company and another from Pexto. So far I have been very pleased. They sharpen up very nicely and seem to hold an edge well. The thing I really like about the old chisels is that they are LONG; the blades are around 9"-10". The extra length does seem to give more control and adds a nice heft to the tools.

In the mortising department I have two of the Ray Iles English Mortise chisels, I love those things. I recently bought a LN mortise chisel and the one project I've used it for, it was fine. It takes and keeps and edge nicely, but when given the choice, I think I'd reach for the English Mortisers. I have two old no-name English Mortise chisels too, one is too brittle so with Jr. Strasil's guidance I'm going to try to temper it a bit, the other one the steel is a bit too "gummy" and won't take a good edge...

So, to make a long story short, my experience is mixed. Some of those old chisels have left me thinking that those old-timers really knew what they were doing, others have been a disapointment. Then again, the same thing could be said about the modern chisels I have...

[harry strasil]

I thought this was the Neander area.

[Jim Becker]

I thought this was the Neander area.

I moved the thread here, Harry, but didn't see the post about posting it where Neanders post such posts... :)

[Mark Stutz]

The Marples Blue Chips are certainly servicable. I got a bit more edge retention by honing at 35 deg. My biggest complaint is that they are top heavy. When doing dovetails, I hold the chisel down on the plade for precise placemant and the heavy blue handles result in fast fatigue. IIRC, Lonnie Bird receomended that his students cut off the top inch or two. Never tried it. I prefer my long old Witherbys for paring, honed at about 25 deg. Most of the old chisels that have survived can be made quite functional with some work. One needs patience, however, to find these old chisels one at a time, unless you are willing to pay for someone else to collect the "set".

[Tony Zaffuto]

Mark,

Lonnie Bird did suggest to cut the top inch off, plus he ground the side bevels to nearly a point at the bottom inch or so of the chisel. One of the chisels that he shown in the article picture was a very nice Stanley 750 that probably caused a few missed heart beats among some collectors.

I like the Ashely Iles butt style chisels because the handles are short and easy to control. As for the side bevels, since the AI are hand made, it's hit or miss how sharp the bevels are. Regardless, I've taken a couple of the AI butt chisels and ground the sides to be better suited to dovetails.

As we all have said numerous times, chisels are very subjective because of the feel in the hand. A new buyer should try several styles/makes to see what feels best.

T.Z.

[Danny Thompson]

I would love to find an old Stanley 750 to compare against, but I can say hands down that my first Lie-Nielsen bevel-edge chisel made a believer out of me. There is simply no comparison in the kinds of cuts I can make with it v. my modern Buck Bros. and Stanleys.

If I run across a 750, or an old Swan, I will probably buy it just to try. And I'd like to get the feel of a Ray Isles mortise chisel. Otherwise, I'm building a set of LNs one piece at a time (www.craftsmanstudio.com (http://www.craftsmanstudio.com); no tax, no shipping)

[Billy Dodd]

I was wondering because I have 1 chisel that is a new type from a norwegien company that works great but it's a small quarter inch size. I have a few that are no names but it's a waist of time putting an edge on them. They chip with each use. I was thinking about checking out some older name brand one's or even some older japanese type since they are cheaper then some of the newer better name brands.
I can't see how anybody can do woodworking and not need a chisel. I use one on almost every project some where or another.
There is a difference in the maples?

[Glenn Madsen]

I bought Marples about 6 years back, and they are all right. They get used for some of the more abusive projects here now. Carpentry gets done with the hardware store yellow handle ones from the last thirty years. And the funky plastic handled Sears chisels that came from Dad's a couple fo years back when he cleaned out his tool chest.

The ones I use are Lie Nielsens. And those get put away in the tools shrine, behind the other stuff, to keep my sons from grabbing those to pry open paint cans with...

Here's the deal. In my opinion, you can chase cheap all day long, and well into the night. Sometimes, you'll get something really nice. Many other times, not. When you know there are good tools available, buy what you can afford, and make do, but with a tool you'll use forever, or at least your grandkids will.

If you have a source of knowledge, rather than random attacks on the old tool world, you're better off. For many, than means doing business with reputable dealers like Walt Q, or Syndas Sloot, or ...

[Pam Niedermayer]

Six or seven years ago while making the transition to hand tools which became largely a transition to Japanese hand tools with some exceptions such as plough planes, I managed to win a couple of auctions of sets of chisels, piles of old laminated chisels of all sorts, Bucks, Witherbys, Swans, Herrings, Addises, and the like. As it turned out I got them for an average of $3 per chisel, thus combining cheap and excellent.

Pam

[Mike Moore]

For my 2 cents if you can’t afford LN’s by the blue marlpes. But more important is the work and it is work to put a good edge of a chisel. When I receive a new tool it will take up to an hour to have an edge that I consider workable. I finish with a 8000g stone then hit it with the leather and flex yellow compound. True a blue will have to be touched up more often but when you have spent the time on the tool when you unwrapped it then keeping them sharp is easy.
For years all I had were a set of 5 craftsman irons. Heck they worked for me just fine if I kept a stone in my pocket. Now I have LN’s but seem to use old ones I have picked up over the years more than the Lie’s.
Old Iron’s, I look for old mortise chisels. Mortise chisels are not the same animal as your bench irons. Mortise chisels are made to be wacked on with mallets the steel has to absorb this shock. The Old chisels were made by forge welding a high carbon tool steel lamination on the cutting edge, this steel was extremely hard and brittle, by adding the softer steel to the blade the tool steel could take the shocking mallet blows without chipping. As far as I know the Japanese are the only ones doing this now.

[jonathan snyder]

I have a few that are no names but it's a waist of time putting an edge on them. They chip with each use.

Billy, What angle are you sharpening at? If around 25 degrees, try a 30 degree bevel. Steepening the bevel may reduce chipping.

I have the AI butt chisels, which I like to use for certain things as they are very controllable. I also have a nice collection of long Witherby paring chisels, which I would not trade for anything!

Buy one or two chisels of different brands or styles and see which you like. Check out Tools for Working Wood (Joel (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/)) for the AI chisels. If you think you might like to try the AI's, buy one from Joel, he will let you try it and return it if you don't like it. If you do like it buy a few more form him.

Jonathan

[Marcus Ward]

Now, I haven't tried the marples, but every other modern chisel (cheaper) that I try I am very disappointed by. I've got a small set of witherby firmers and bench chisels that are awesome at holding an edge. If it's my choice I'd scour and buy old rather than new.

[Mike Cutler]

I have a set of L-N's, a set of Sorby Sash chisel, a set of Hirsch's, a set of Crown's, a bunch of flea market specials, a really terrible set of craftsman's from the 70's( Awful, just awful. It would be insulting to the paint can to use them to pry the top off) and two Marples 3/8" and 1/2".

I like the Marples, I really do. I actually prefer them over the L-N's, that is strictly a matter of ergonomics though.( Or a fear of wrecking one of the L-N's.;) ) Once I get a set of longer handles for the L-N's Those will move to the top of the list easily. They are very,very nice chisels. Worth the $$$$ in my opinion.
I don't like the Crown's. Something is just not right with them. They are difficult to sharpen and don't seem to hold an edge very long. They feel "off" in my hands also.
The Robert Sorby Sash's are excellent for their intended purpose. I use them quite a bit when doing M&T's.
I haven't used the Hirsch's much though.
Any quality steel chisel can be used effectively. Balance, ergononics, and a general overall "feel" are subjective, and very individual.

[glenn bradley]

Despite the romance of old arn, newer metals can be made superior. I have set of Marples that are my daily users. They are good general purpose chisels but there are certainly better. There are good and bad in the newer steels but generally the newer technology is a benefit. It is interesting to read reviews such as you state where controlled tests are done. Price is not always the factor here.

[Billy Dodd]

It doesn't seem hard to find one that has a good feel but to get one that you don't have to carry a whetstone around with you all the time is different. I mostly use oak around here and it seems to be tough on chisels.

Jonathon, I set my chisels with a main angle of 25 degrees then tip it to 27and a half degrees. I think that's how to explain it.

I have a set of marples on order to see how they work. If I could find a 3/4 inch chisel (that was perfect for me) it would be worth a lot but alot of trial and error gets expensive.