Best shoulder plane on a REALLY tight budget?

[Steve LaFara]

I'm in need of a shoulder plane but funds are very tight for a while. Any suggestions? Small to medium size would be fine.

[glenn bradley]

No sucha thing that I have found. I can't bring myself to spend $50 - $60 only to have a so-so tool. I've re-sold or given away too many already through this learning process. I'll work around the requirement till I can get a good one. That way I can only blame me when it doesn't come out right ;-).

Seems a lot of folks feel the Veritas bull nose plane is a good starter for folks who don't have a shoulder plane and may need the tool to pull multiple-duty at the bench. At$150 I need to keep saving for awhile:
http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/woodworking/planes/05p4201s2.jpg

[Bruce Page]

I have to agree with Glenn here. Unless you can find a decent used one on eBay or somewhere like that you’re going to have to spend the bucks. I have the LV, it is both beautiful and functional.

[Pam Niedermayer]

There's nothing a shoulder plane does that can't be done with a good, sharp paring chisel. Now sometimes you'll have to use it bevel down (if you're getting tearout on a tenon cheek, not the primary use of a shoulder plane).

Pam

[Bruce Page]

There's nothing a shoulder plane does that can't be done with a good, sharp paring chisel. Now sometimes you'll have to use it bevel down (if you're getting tearout on a tenon cheek, not the primary use of a shoulder plane).

Pam

Good Point.

[Casey Gooding]

You could always make one. You could buy a Veritas or LN blade and build a plane around that.
Might be a fun project.

[David Weaver]

Just to poke a line in here about the rosewood planes - I think Japan Woodworker has a rosewood shoulder plane. I don't know how good it is, I only have iron shoulder planes, and they're fantastic, and in my opinion worth saving for.

[glenn bradley]

I agree with Pam but I don't have the skill to keep things nice and flat or at a solid 90* angle without a little support. I also don't have the sharpening gene and rely on jigs and supports. These two shortcomings probably reside in the same absent skill-gene ;-)

[Jake Darvall]

A woodie rebate plane be the cheapest. 10 bucks over here. if that.

True the sides...(easy. Its just wood)

Grind the blade sides flush to the newly flush sides.

Ensure the blade at the end of the bevel is firmly planted on the bed when wedged in (bend it if you must). Else you'll get chatter.

That would be the cheapest way for shore. Yes, there more than satisfactory. In my opinion.

[Mike Henderson]

I used a chisel for a long time - but they have to be sharp to trim the shoulders well. Recently, I bought a LV medium shoulder plane and really like it.

So my advice is like Pam's - if money is a problem, use a chisel. Just make sure it's sharp. But sharpening skills are something you'll need for a variety of woodworking tasks anyway.

Our woodworking ancestors made a lot of M&T joints with nothing but a saw and a couple of chisels. You can too.

Mike

[Brian Kent]

Two NOT to buy:

Anant Bullnose Rabbet plane. Only $39 but took many hours of work to get it smooth and square and sharp. Works OK now but nothing special.

Mujingfang 1" Rabbet plane (Japan Woodworker or Lee Valley). Beautiful rosewood for only $27, but it never works as planned. The blade needs better support. I've reshaped the wedge to reach further but still something is lacking. This is the Lee Valley website description: "Best suited for use on softwoods (or with the grain on hardwood), as this type of blade is wedged farther from the edge, and is prone to chatter on heavier cuts or in difficult grain."

Just a note - this is the only rosewood Mujingfang plane I've bought that was not an absolute gem. Their 11" Jack, 7" smoother, 9" High Angle Polish, and (micro) small polish plane are just fantastic. All 4 planes together total $140.

[Larry Laffer]

Steve, I second the idea of making your own, although I wouldn't recommend it as a first homemade plane project. Pick up a copy of "Making and Mastering Wooden Planes" by Fink.. Highly recommended!
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0806961635/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance

And here's some reasonably priced ready-made planes.

Bottom of the page...
http://www.adriatools.com/ece/ecewedged.html

I've been toying with the idea of picking up this inexpensive Anant bullnose plane, with the thought of using the blade and handle/wedge in a homemade shoulder plane. Add some 1/4" sheet brass and a scrap of Ipe and PRESTO!. Well, maybe not quite that quick.:D

[Terry Bigelow]

How tight is a tight budget? One of the few new planes I've bought is this Stanley #92 shoulder plane:http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=560. I think it's pretty underrated as far as shoulder planes go. I'm not sure I'd reccomend a single other new Stanley plane but these are still very well made and have a good bit of heft to them that helps out in it's use. You might be able to find the vintage version cheaper but it seems I always see them for a bit more. At a $120 it's at the low-mid price range for a quality shoulder plane. I absolutely love mine though. I ended up finding the #90 bullnose (vintage version) on eBay for $50 BIN and snatched it up quick. It's also a nice plane although not as good for the same job.
Otherwise, I like Jake's idea for an inexpensive shoulder-the woodie! $10-$20 can't beat that. I've got a couple of those as well. Might not have the heft, but they can get the job done for sure.

[Jake Darvall]

. Might not have the heft, but they can get the job done for sure.

yep. Thats one of the things I don't like about them too. I like a heavy plane. Ideally what I'd like to get one day is a heavy old infill shoulder plane. My boss has one. Feels great in the hand, but despite my best attempts he won't sell it to me. And he's too busy doing other things to use it, so it just sits there on his shelf unused teasing me everyday. :D

[Maurice Metzger]

Glenn, my experience with this type of bullnose plane (a Stanley 75, not the Lee Valley) is that they don't work too well as a shoulder plane - the toe is too short to get good registration on the work.

My 2 cents...

Maurice

[Bill Houghton]

A Stanley 75 or any of its clones doesn't work too well as a plane, period, much less as a shoulder plane. I finally concluded mine is mainly useful for planing paint drips.

[Don C Peterson]

Now that's what I call a ringing endorsement! ;)

[Michael Schwartz]

I own a Veritas Medium Shoulder and a LN Small Shoulder Plane. Both are great tools and both designs have their merrits as far as ergonomics. I would recommend the Veritas Medium Shoulder if you were to only get one shoulder plane.

[Ken Werner]

I'm with Michael. If you can't afford the LV med shoulder now, just wait and save. It is a wonderful tool that will not disappoint. And it seems to just go up in value.

Ken

[Lewis Moon]

I own the Clifton 410 (along with a Record 073 and a Record "3 in 1") and will probably be trading it up for the LV medium. I like the adjustable mouth and the better grip on the LV. Now....I just wish LV would make their little bullnose/chisel plane in a "3 in 1" version with an adjustable mouth.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Can you make one?

[Mark Singer]

Using a chisel has an advantage....you will get very skilled with it!

[Steve LaFara]

I've thought about making one, but not sure I would ever know if it was made correctly as I've never used one let alone a good one. I have some nice older Stanley planes that I've gotten to work well, but making one from scratch is an entirerly different story.

[Tim Sproul]

I'm in need of a shoulder plane


For what purpose? If you're in need, you must have a specific task that needs to get done. You think you need a shoulder plane. I'd wager a hefty sum of money that there are reasonable alternatives to using a shoulder plane. And these alternatives often are inexpensive.

[glenn bradley]

Glenn, my experience with this type of bullnose plane (a Stanley 75, not the Lee Valley) is that they don't work too well as a shoulder plane - the toe is too short to get good registration on the work.

My 2 cents...

Maurice

Thanks for the experienced info Maurice. I was wondering about that. Lee Valley and at least one other source recommend a bull nose as a general purpose plane (for these special purposes) but of course they want to sell them. I appreciate the hands-on report so I can factor that into my thinking ;-)

[Steve LaFara]

Well I guess a router plane would work too. I'm trying to make a dado every so slightly deeper. We're talking about somewhere between .010" and .020" at the same time as keeping it level. I've tried the chisel approach but it's hard to keep the grove perfectly level and I can't get a file in there. The dado is slightly under 1" wide so my little Stanley bull nose plane won't fit. Got any ideas? Yea, it sounds weird but it's for a very precision fit on a small object.

[josh bjork]

for uniform depth, a router plane is really a good way to go. Not very much $ either.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Wooden dado planes are cheap, even new. That said, why not use a chisel like a scraper, on end, wrap the blade at the appropriate point for depth control. Or try a chisel bevel down.

Pam

[Marcus Ward]

edit - sorry, I just read what he was trying to do. I assumed he was trimming tenon shoulders.

Get a router plane, they work astonishingly well.

[Jake Darvall]

I think the main reason for using a shoulder plane over a chisel is it takes at the high spots to keep things straight (spose thats obvious sorry).....its just preferable I'd say to use it when you've got a through rebate to trim ....... quicker and more control,,handles the grain better etc. So generally good before assembly mostly I'd say.

but say if your cleaning up towards a stopped rebate then I'd probably not bother using it. Can't plane right up to the stop cause of the nose. Can do it, then clean up with chisel but I reakon the router plane be the preferable tool....but sometimes even with that it can be hard to get a good finish if the grains unfriendly coming against you as you go towards the stop.....So I often use pams idea there scraping with a sharp chisel two handed so I can make a clean with grain cut...locked arms.....etc.

But this sort of stuff I think one should try and avoid to begin with if possible, because its fiddly. IMO.

Tell you what I reakons one of the tools to get for detailing this sort of thing. A cranked necked chisel. I've got one. And I just love it.

Skewed shoulder planes are nice. Shavings come out really nicely and the plane draws itself into the rebate for more control. But that really means they work only well enough in one direction. Ideally then you want two if your into skewed. Because a single skewed shoulder plane becomes useless on its own if your going against grain. So, a left and right handed woodern pair, tuned on the shelf ready to go be nice.

[Doug Shepard]

I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority (or alone) on this, but I find the normal shoulder planes awkward to use for trimming tenon shoulders. With average sized tenon widths, there's 1/2 to 2/3rds the length of the shoulder plane hanging off the edge of the tenon. Just seems like more chances to get tippy and an uneven surface, and unnecessary weight to handle. The LV bullnose or something of a similar length seems just about right. I usually just trim with a chisel but that's my take on the shoulder plane question.
And I've got to agree on the router plane for dado's. They can be a bit finicky to get the depth set right for a nice consistent shaving but they work great once you get it dialed in.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I've thought about making one, but not sure I would ever know if it was made correctly as I've never used one let alone a good one. I have some nice older Stanley planes that I've gotten to work well, but making one from scratch is an entirerly different story.

Might come out better~!!

It's not rocket science. All you really need are three elements: (1) the angle; (2) a way to hold the blade; and (3) the sole of your desire whether it's flat, angled, or curved.

A a little googling around will help you with those issues.
http://www.crfinefurniture.com/1pages/sitelinks/howplane.html
http://www.djmarks.com/stories/djm/Making_A_Wooden_Hand_Plane_95308.asp
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=3&p=52680&cat=1,46096,46107&ap=1
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=3&p=45260&cat=1,46096,46107&ap=1
http://www.xmission.com/~jry/ww/tools/schueller/schueller-practice-dovetails-v2.html (http://www.xmission.com/%7Ejry/ww/tools/schueller/schueller-practice-dovetails-v2.html)
http://www.xmission.com/~jry/ww/tools/a13/a13.html (http://www.xmission.com/%7Ejry/ww/tools/a13/a13.html)
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=howTo&p=Build/BldHndPln.html
http://www.popularmechanics.com/home_journal/woodworking/1273456.html
http://www.knight-toolworks.com/wooden.htm
http://www.daikudojo.org/Classes/20060401/
http://www.hntgordon.com.au/114shdetail.htm
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/fwnpdf/011001022.pdf
Don't forget Zahid: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=715831

Some folks make wood planes in component pieces & glued up so as to make the blade keep and angle easy to machine on a TS. Others make 'em by drilling and chiseling from solid wood.

You can probably use hard maple and get along just fine. Some folks say it moves too much to use as a plane but, if maple is the wood you have handy ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Some guys like Beech.

Then later if indeed you find that it's not that big a technical challenge (and it isn't) you can make your planes from exotics like ebony and cocobolo.

I am quite certain sure you can buy the blades all hardened and ready to go from the likes of Lee Valley or Veritas.


Think of it making your own plane like chicken soup: "Can't hurt, might help."

[Zahid Naqvi]

Like Cliff recommends, wooden planes are remarkably easy to make using the Krenov method. I got hooked a couple of years ago and have made several since and have gotten hooked to the point that all my planes now are wooden. But the one plane that I just can't see working in wood is the shoulder plane. I have made many shoulder planes out of wood, none perform satisfactorily. The one big problem being lack of support for a low angle (which is mandatory for end grain work). Just the pressure of inserting the wedge will bend the incline (on which the blade rests. Hence the only metallic plane I like to use is the shoulder plane, I have a Clifton 310.

I don't say it can't be done, but a wooden shoulder plane will always have limitations and in my opinion will never work as well as a metallic one. Considering you are just getting into hand planes, I'd say for now get a wooden plane from eBay or, if you are lucky enough, a local flea market and start saving for a metallic shoulder plane. That's what I did and would recommend that to anyone on a budget.

If you need help with finding the right plane on eBay PM me and I will email you some items that I think make good candidates.

[Marcus Ward]

You can't build a low angle shoulder plane out of wood, but a normal angle one works just fine. I have 2, they're pre 1900 and work great. If you ever come up to visit you can test drive them. :)

[Al Willits]

REALLY tight budget?

Drop down a couple of topics to the "Used Planes" posts.

Al

[Pam Niedermayer]

...
I don't say it can't be done, but a wooden shoulder plane will always have limitations and in my opinion will never work as well as a metallic one....

On the premise that it only takes one counter example to disprove a theory, http://www.hntgordon.com.au/un12sh.htm


Pam

[Jim Koepke]

A Stanley 75 or any of its clones doesn't work too well as a plane, period, much less as a shoulder plane. I finally concluded mine is mainly useful for planing paint drips.

The 75 has too high a blade angle for tenons and shoulders. I was patient and got lucky on the Bay and got a Stanley 90 for less than $50 with shipping. Bought an extra blade for less than $20. Should last me and my grand-children's lifetimes.
Even with the bull nose, it works great.


jim

[Zahid Naqvi]

On the premise that it only takes one counter example to disprove a theory, http://www.hntgordon.com.au/un12sh.htm
Pam

I knew someone was going to bring that up :). Gordon's shoulder Plane has that brass U channel for added support (which makes it somewhat like an infill), despite that it is still a high angle. I know Derek has written a review on many Gordon planes, perhaps he can enlighten us on how that compares to a Veritas medium shoulder plane.

[Marcus Ward]

I have the large shoulder plane from Veritas, and I can tell you, nothing compares to it. That I've used, anyhow.

[Zahid Naqvi]

I have a Clifton 310 and I have used a Veritas medium shoulder. I have used several variations of the wooden shoulder/rabbet plane (sandusky, shopmade, ...) there is no comparison. Hence my initial implication that a low angle metal shoulder plane will always outperform a wooden one. Then again I have never used anything in the class of Gordon planes.

[Brian Kent]

I posted earlier not to buy an Anant bull-nose rabbett plane. In all fairness, last night I was working on a project with a lot of shoulder cleanup and the Anant performed perfectly.

That was after a lot of time squaring the body on a combination sander, but it did what it was supposed to do.