Built-In Finally done - w/PICS

[Todd Burch]

Well, here it is. Walnut. It's beautufil wood. This is my first project with walnut of this quantity. This is 100" tall and 10'6" wide, 26" deep. Hardware is from Horton Brasses.

Some people thought I was crazy for taking out the fireplace to install this built-in, but I think the built-in adds quite a bit more to the room than what the fireplace did.

Full pictures and details can be read at my web site here:

http://www.burchwoodusa.com/miscpix/Remodel/walnut_bi.html

Thanks for looking. Todd.

[Dick Parr]

Todd,

That is absolutely beautiful, and your right, Walnut is a great wood to work with. Nice job!

[Glenn Clabo]

Really NICE!

[Ken Salisbury]

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ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL --- GREAT WORK !!!!!

[chris toomey]

beautiful work todd. walnut is my wood of choice. but i think you must have made an error of your site. you said it cost $32,000? walnut is pricey but.....not that pricey

[Jim Rahbe]

Todd,

Great process pictures on your web site. Outstanding job. I noticed it says the "cost" was $32,000... Is this right, or did you mean $3,200?

[Todd Burch]

For me to come to your house and do everything that I did on this built in, yes, I would charge $32K. What would you all charge?

Todd.

[Ed Bartchy]

WOW!!! Great job. Removing that fireplace was a good idea. Your walnut entertainment center/bookcase certainly is a much better focal point for the room. Also, nice progress pictures.

Ed Bartchy

[Jim Izat]

Hey Todd,

I am really intrigued by your $32,000 figure. That's the equivalent of charging about $10,000 to put in a somewhat more standard sized 3 foot wide by 8 foot tall built in. I'm interested in how you costed out the job to arrive at that figure.

Jim Izat

[Phil Phelps]

Truely beautiful. As I usually say about myself, I need to get out more often. The only thing I can say abuout the price is. "buddy, it you can cash the check, more power to ya' ". :eek:

[Mike Gutschmann]

Very nice wish I had your talant .

Mike G

[Todd Burch]

Jim, I didn't just "put in a built-in". The built-in was a piece of the total package. You, and I, and everyone else on this forum, would never pay that much, because we can do it ourselves. Did it cost me $32K to do it? Absolutley not.

On the other hand, I don't claim to be the low-cost provider.

How much for floor repair - to match it perfectly? How much for an electrician to move wires? How much for phone company to move wires? How much for network company to move wires? To move cable TV lines? How much for insulation guy? sheetrock guy? How much for a designer to design this unit? And a framer to remove a load bearing wall? And a painter? Texturer? And so on and on and on, to YOUR specific level of detail - to get it perfect? Go to a cabinet shop and cost out custom drawers - just the boxes, with perfect fitting box joints. Multiple that by 6. Consider every aspect - done meticulously, performed by a craftsman. How many shops do you know that will match wood grain? I know a guy that charges $400 PER DOOR to make a cabinet - and that's just the price of each door - not the cabinet!!

As an analogy - would you pay $5000 for a watch to wear on your wrist? Me neither, but a lot of people do.

No apologies here. Todd.

[Ron McNeil]

Very nice work Todd it's beautiful.

[Ted Shrader]

Todd -

You out did yourself with this one, buddy!

Ted

[John Sanford]

Todd,

I think the question regarding the cost isn't one of "how much would it have cost to have somebody else come in and do it." Rather, what was YOUR cost in time, materials, and of course, the intangibles of aggravation, household mess, etc. It might be useful when impressing the in-laws or justifying it to SWMBO to us the "pro cost calculation", but that's not what folks here are considering.

Now, this is a somewhat more involved undertaking than most built-ins. I'll be doing one at a friends some time soon, but its an existing niche in a carpeted room, i.e. the entire demolition/relocation aspect of your project doesn't apply. So, a useful breakdown for US (not for SWMBO) would differentiate between the cost for just the built-in, and the cost to make a place for it and blending.

Nobody is seeking to minimize what you've done, just trying to make sense of it. $32K for a walnut built in does seem extreme, but that's because when most of us envision the cost, we're simply envisioning the labor and materials for the built-in itself.

I guess an analogy would be somebody talking about how their new bathtub cost $12,000. Someone else, with virtually the same bathtub for a mere $2k might be wondering, without knowing that the first guy had to rebuild the entire bathroom to boot.

Beautiful work.

[Phil Phelps]

Originally posted by Todd Burch
Jim, I didn't just "put in a built-in". The built-in was a piece of the total package. You, and I, and everyone else on this forum, would never pay that

No apologies here. Todd.

Let me add to that." And, there shouldn't be any apologies." In Dallas, we have an area called the Park Cities. Highland Park and University Park. The ultra rich live there. The Hunts', Perots', owners of sports franchises, I mean the mega rich. They are the people who appreciate fine craftsmanship and love to pay for it. That unit may be underpriced in that area. Carry on, Todd. ;)

[Ben Mathews]

Uh oh. You got me looking at my fireplace that I have used 4 times in 2 years. Very nice!

Ben

[Jim Rahbe]

Todd,

I went back and re-read your web site... I think my initial question was based on what I thought you said was your "cost" of $32,000. I see now your were saying that for you to go do this for someone else, the "price" would be $32,000. Makes more sense to me now...

Thanks,

[John Miliunas]

Whew! Looks like a project and a half! Really nice attention to detail and, of course, Walnut speaks for itself. A very rich look. Especially like the "little" considerations, such as the removable access panels and slanted shelves for equipment. (We still have a DVD player located too high on a horizontal plane and have to "guess" at where to put the disc in and out!) Nice job and I'm sure you're reaping the rewards!:cool:

[Bob Lasley]

Super job Todd! That is absolutely stunning. You should be very proud.

Bob

[PeterTorresani]

I'd have to charge $32,000. $20,000 for the work and the other $12,000 to cover the cost of my divorce :)

The real answer to the question is how much is someone willing to pay. If you found a guy that was willing to give you $50k to do the job, then there would be nothing wrong with charging that. Of course in a free market the two sides usually meet at a fair price.

But since you asked the question. My estimate without knowing all of the detail is that the cabinet is worth $12k-$15k. This leaves about $15k-$20k left for the demo and rebuild of the wall. At $100/hour that's 150-200 hours for that part of the job.

Looking at the numbers, I would say $32k is a bit too high. My sense of the value is around $20k-$25k. But as I said, if you can get more, no apologies are necessary.

Now this may be a secret, but just between you, me and the thousand other readers, do you know time and material on the project.


I should add, the workmanship is beautiful.

[Howard Barlow]

Maybe I have a warped sense of value, but as a business owner, photographer, my prices are not related to what it costs me to produce. My price is based on what I can do and what people will pay for it.

Does it cost me several $K to provide a wedding album? No, you would be surprised how low my "costs" are. But people will pay it so I take it. It's called "what the market will bear", or "perceived value".

Good for you, Todd.

[Todd Burch]

For the built-in itself, no, I don't know exactly on materials or time:

I know there is at least $1,800 (my cost) of walnut & walnut ply in the thing.

Hardware was Horton Brasses, and that ain't cheap, so for 10 knobs and 4 pair hinges, probably over $100 there, easy. (I went there in person here a while back, and spent over $300, but got a lunch bag full of things with these at the same time.

$18/pair for the drawer slides, X 6.

2+ sheets baltic birch for drawer boxes.

Probably 4 or 5 sheets MDF, in all. (I used a lot of what I already had in cut offs and left overs.)

As far as time goes, probably 7-9 weeks for the built-in, over a few months. I do know my time for the demo through "paint ready" sheetrock took place over 2 weeks.

And friends, sorry if I "sounded" perturbed on the pricing component. I've done SO many jobs and not made a decent profit, that this was probably a backlash to that. I think Peter was closer to what an actual cost would be - my first thought was to price it at $26K. I've since removed the pricing info, as most (but not all) of my site does not include pricing anyway. As one of my friends suggested, "reel 'em in, then sock it to 'em".

By the way, anyone ever priced a Maloof Rocking chair? :-)

Todd.

[Jim Izat]

Gee,

I really didn't mean to stir the pot quite so much with my question. I just wondered what the breakdown on such a job might be.

Please don't get me wrong, it's a thing of beauty, and worth twice as much for the right client. But like I said, I'm looking to learn as much as I can about that particular aspect of the custom market. I have absolutely no experience in how one would begin to put a price on such a project. I was just looking for an insight into your costing out process that led you to that figure. That's all. If I've offended you I hope you'll accept my apology.

Jim Izat

[Todd Burch]

No offense taken. See my prior post. Todd.

[Tim Spickler]

Beautiful work!!!!!

[Bart Goldberg]

Todd - what a fantastic job!!! I agree that the built in is much nicer than the fireplace insert that was there. I'm just begining a "built"in job my slef - althouh not inset, it will be flush to two adjoining walls of my family room. One question I have is how you you make that large profile crown molding? I could you some of your know how.


Thanks
Bart

[Todd Burch]

No problem Bart. I'd be happy to share.

First, here's a picture of a section of the crown. No, this is not out of walnut, but birch and maple for ANOTHER builtin I did earlier this year while I was in the middle of building this walnut built-in. See the birch built-in here: http://www.burchwoodusa.com/miscpix/Remodel/guinn_builtin.html.

<img src="http://www.burchwoodusa.com/miscpix/Remodel/guinn_crown.jpg">

The assembly is made up of 5 pieces. First, there is a profile that my lumber dealer calls PM5, for panel mold #5. Not sure if that's common nomenclature around the country or not, or if it's just their name. That's the bottom "show piece", kind of an ogee profile, an astragal at the bottom, and a fillet at the top and bottom. The next show piece up is 4¼" crown - a fairly common profile. On top of that, and capping the whole thing off is a piece I milled, ¾" thick, with a ¾" roundover on the front lower edge, and then a 3/16" roundover again on the top corner (milled in that order). The ends of the cap are mitered and returned (like a picture frame) so that no end grain shows.

The other two pieces involved are a 9/16" strip that sits just above the PM5, and gives a surface for the tall crown to sit on. Where the crown and PM5 meet, the crown actually sits just on top of the PM5. Lastly, there is the backer piece, which would typically be your actual face frame assembly. In this mock-up, I need a section 3/8" wide to fill in a gap between the crown and the wall, as the wall was crooked and "fell away" - in other words - too big a gap for caulk.

If you want any more details, let me know. Todd.

[Dave Tinley]

I see you have learned something from hanging around the POND. lol-
Really nice work !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dan Bussiere]

Todd,
I'm not into woodworking for the cost or profit, so I just want to say you did a great job on the project and I hope you get a million for it. Of course if you do please share it with me!

Suitably Jealous!
Dan

[Mark Mazzo]

Todd,

Great craftmanship and a beautiful piece of work. You should be proud, and you're right, it does much more for the room than the fireplace did ;)

-- Mark