Festool Kapex on the Way to US Market

[Don Bullock]

Festool will be entering the US market with a sliding compound miter saw, the Kapex, according to Lucas Peters at Wood magazine. Was anyone here at the introduction today? I know that some here have been waiting for one.:D

[Brice Burrell]

The Kapex won't be coming to the US until late spring or maybe summer, this is from Christian Oltzscher, head of Festool USA. Search the FOG site for Christian's post.

[Gary Keedwell]

This is like Deja Vu all over again (domino):(:( : > )

Gary

[Mike Spanbauer]

A co-worker owns one (he's in France) and swears by it... it IS a wicked impressive unit by all accounts.

However, the price tag for IT will make you croak. I would guess with the weak US dollar, the current sales price of that unit in EU and other factors...

Well, the domino was 4x the common bisquit units price before (PC) and... that's about what this will run I'm guessing.

4x450... yowzer!

mike

[Gary Keedwell]

So ...maybe in the $1,400-$2000 range? :eek: Rumor has it that "Kapex" is Greek for spending my children's inheritence. :>)
Gary

[Bob Marino]

So ...maybe in the $1,400-$2000 range? :eek:
Gary
No Gary,

Not nearly that price.

Bob

[Gary Keedwell]

No Gary,

Not nearly that price.

Bob
Yea Bob. I was being a little facetious. About how much do you think it will cost. I Figured I might as well ask because you know someone will.;)
Gary

[Bob Marino]

Yea Bob. I was being a little facetious. About how much do you think it will cost. I Figured I might as well ask because you know someone will.;)
Gary

Just don't know at this point in time - no one really does.

Bob

[Paul Girouard]

Just don't know at this point in time - no one really does.

Bob

Humm so lets see Gary could be right in the ball park , if no one really knows :rolleyes:

So Bob big ball park , how much? More than Gary's guess?

[Bob Marino]

Humm so lets see Gary could be right in the ball park , if no one really knows :rolleyes:

So Bob big ball park , how much? More than Gary's guess?

Paul,

The ball park is big, and I repeat, no one really knows for sure, but my guess is it will be somewhere between $1000 and $1200.00
Bob

[Brad Bartley]

Looks like about $1500 (£1=$2)

http://www.fixy.co.uk/products/item641.cfm

Kapex KS 120 EB Sliding compound mitre saw
http://www.fixy.co.uk/products/images/item641.jpg
Our Price (inc VAT) £786.08
Our Price (ex VAT) £669.00


Choose Voltage:
240v 110v

Finally a sliding compound mitre saw that merits the Festool brand name.
Applications
Trimming skirting boards and cornices up to 120mm in height
cutting boards and panels up to 305x88mm
Trimming crown mouldings up to 168mm in their 'original wall position'
Trimming square timber and beams up to 88mm thick
Trimming non-ferrous metal and plastics (with correct blade)
Cutting along the bisector without making calculations Features

Twin-column guide for accurate cuts
FastFix blade changing
Precision angle transfer via bevel and dual-line laser
Compact, lightweight design for convenient transportation Technical data

Power consumption - 1600w
Idling speed - 1400-3400rpm
Saw blade dia. - 260mm
Cutting depth at 90/90deg - 305x88mm
Cutting depth at 45/90deg - 215x88mm
Cutting depth at 45/45deg (left) - 215x55mm
Cutting depth at 45/45deg (right) - 215x35mm
Special cutting depth at 45/90deg (right) - 20x120mm
Crown moulding diagonal cut - 168mm
Inclination angle - 47/47deg
Mitre angle - 50/60deg
Dimensions (WxDxH) - 713x500x470mm
Dust extraction connection dia. - 27/36mm
Weight - 21.5kg
Scope of delivery
Operation tool, HW universal saw blade Z60, bevel, workpiece clamp.
(part No.s 240v - 561285, 110v - 561286)

[Dave Novak]

It almost doesn't matter to me what it costs. If I can cut reliable angles and have reasonable dust collection, I'll buy it at almost any price. I don't know of an alternative that is any more accurate than a framer would require.

[John Russell]

It almost doesn't matter to me what it costs. If I can cut reliable angles and have reasonable dust collection, I'll buy it at almost any price. I don't know of an alternative that is any more accurate than a framer would require.

Ditto or 10x ditto ... if there is improved dust collection and functionality over my current miter saw, then I can wait another year for a new computer and invest in Kapex ...

[Gary Keedwell]

It almost doesn't matter to me what it costs. If I can cut reliable angles and have reasonable dust collection, I'll buy it at almost any price. I don't know of an alternative that is any more accurate than a framer would require.
SHSSSHHHHHH Be quiet please...If Festool hears talk like that...they'll raise the prices:eek::D
Gary

[Jim Kountz]

I'll be keeping my eye on this one when it gets here, Im not at all a Festool fan but if it has dust collection that actually works, I could become one........Maybe. I hope that price is conservatively high and it comes in a little lower here in the states when it does get here.

[David Weaver]

If you can show someone that it can be reliably adjusted and stay adjusted to cut 45 degree miters to the point where you can build a large frame with miter joints (say, where the thickness of the material is about 2x6) without having to do anything to fine tune the miters and still have them meet without any gap at all over their entire lengths - that's what will get me interested.

I haven't yet seen a CMS that seems like it was purpose built for that kind of accuracy, and I have a hitachi CMS where the detents aren't really anywhere close to what they're supposed to be. Supposing the Kapex could do that kind of work, the hitachi would be on craigslist, even for $1200.

To me, one of the least exciting things in the shop is tuning miter joints when you're stick building. A saw that could get length and angle dead on is worth a lot in my book in terms of making WWing more enjoyable.

It may be $1500 in england, but people in the UK usually pay more for stuff than we do, even considering exchange. I would think Bob's estimates are probably good given that it's $1500 in the UK after conversion.

[Henk Marais]

I think Festool has long ago already realised we will pay anything for their products. I Own a Kapex for about six months now ((I have a exstensive range of festools - Domino, Rotex Sander, Plungesaw, etc (Gloat:D)) and will not change it for anything. I also own a couple of Makita CM saws that compares well but the Kapex does have the edge.

If you convert our Curency (ZAR) to dollars I paid $2100 for my Capex at R6.70 to the $. (Today's exchange) In Comparrison I paid $1050 for my domino. I do not know what you pay for the domino in the US but maybe this could serve as a guide

[Jim Becker]

I kinda have to echo what David just said...CMS/SCMS don't generally excite me because I've never seen one precise enough to do work better than "close". My CMS is generally only used for rough cutting at this point...I don't trust it and it has a mind of its own when it comes to staying in alignment, etc. For precise miters, I started using sleds on the TS a long time ago. But if the Kapex turned out to be as good as the rest of the Festool products I own, I could envision putting one in my shop at some point. Time will tell.

[Greg Cole]

If nothing else, the more times we say KAPEX.... we all get Per to put a dollar in his jar for buying one! ;)
Seriously though, I am with Jim here. My CMS isn't used for deadly accurate cuts, more for stock break down, cutting PT decking etc etc etc.
I haven't slipped on the festool slope & doubt this would be the "one" to push me over the edge.

Greg

[Randy Klein]

For anyone interested, there is a whole slew of videos on the Kapex here (http://www.idealtools.com.au/category55_1.htm).

[mike holden]

You know, no one has commented on the most interesting item in this entire chain of posts - That Festool is discounted in Europe!!
Why isn't there market forces setting the price here?
Quite interesting,
Mike

[David Weaver]

I'm not sure I fully understand the post, I think i do, but I may give a response different than what you expect.

When you sell festool, you charge what festool says you'll charge. If you don't, they will come and take your tools from you.

According to the guy at Rocker in Pittsburgh, when Woodcrafters was going out of business in Wexford, PA, they discounted some of their festool tools to get them out the door. Festool helped them get the tools out the door by showing up and taking all of their Festool tools back for not following their sales agreement.

If there is anything wrong factually with the above, I would like to know from someone who can confirm it.

Also, what does "discounted" mean? It seems like a lot of our european friends pay more for their festool tools than we do here, after taking conversion into account. Whether that's due to taxes and duties and not due to festools pricing, I don't know, but it doesn't seem to be the case that many overseas people are getting the tools effectively cheaper than we're paying for set prices for festools.

I rarely say this, but I personally would rather see festool get to see their prices if it means they won't be pressured to cut corners.

There are some tools where some would contend the extra accuracy isn't needed, but I have not yet seen a CMS that can do fine furniture work, and it would be nice if there was one, because it seems to me, at least, that it's easier to strap something on a CMS and tighten it down and cut it than it is to put a long piece on a traditional cabinet saw and push the whole thing on a sled or TS gauge of some sort.

[Henk Marais]

[When you sell festool, you charge what festool says you'll charge. If you don't, they will come and take your tools from you.

.[/quote]

Like I said before I own various festools but I also heard the following:

We use to see a lot of Specials where if you bought a saw you got the rail for free or if you buy the dust collector you would get the cleaning set, etc. This often enticed me into buying a tool that I would not nesaceraly have bought then. My local dealer however told me they now received a memo from Festool HQ informing them they are under no circomstance not allowed to do this anymore.

[Dixon Peer]

To this builder/cabinetmaker, the big thing about this saw is its supposed dust collection capability. We've been doing really good trim work for years with other brands of sliding compound miter saws (the big DeWalts), but the sawdust goes all over the place. It doesn't really matter because we're working in new houses, but it would be nice for the workers to have less dust floating around in the air they breath.

Price, however, is a factor in any decision if you're a business person.

[Chris Padilla]

I thought I'd have some fun and translate the metric for everyone:


Choose Voltage:
240v 110v

Finally a sliding compound mitre saw that merits the Festool brand name.
Applications
Trimming skirting boards and cornices up to 4.7" in height
cutting boards and panels up to 12" x 3.5"
Trimming crown mouldings up to 6.6" in their 'original wall position'
Trimming square timber and beams up to 3.5" thick
Trimming non-ferrous metal and plastics (with correct blade)
Cutting along the bisector without making calculations Features

Twin-column guide for accurate cuts
FastFix blade changing
Precision angle transfer via bevel and dual-line laser
Compact, lightweight design for convenient transportation Technical data

Power consumption - 1600w
Idling speed - 1400-3400rpm
Saw blade dia. - 10.2"
Cutting depth at 90/90deg - 12" x 3.5"
Cutting depth at 45/90deg - 8.5" x 3.5"
Cutting depth at 45/45deg (left) - 8.5" x 2.2"
Cutting depth at 45/45deg (right) - 8.5" x 1.4"
Special cutting depth at 45/90deg (right) - 0.8" x 4.7"
Crown moulding diagonal cut - 6.6"
Inclination angle - 47/47deg
Mitre angle - 50/60deg
Dimensions (WxDxH) - 28.1" x 19.7" x 18.5"
Dust extraction connection dia. - 1.1"/1.4"
Weight - 47.4 lb
Scope of delivery
Operation tool, HW universal saw blade Z60, bevel, workpiece clamp.
(part No.s 240v - 561285, 110v - 561286)

Overall, it is a Festool...need we say more except D*R*O*O*L !!!

[David Weaver]

The nice thing for a pro versus those of us who are hobbyists is that you can write off whatever you buy. That by no means makes it free, but it does allow you to adjust what that price means to you in terms of discretionary income.

I think that has a fairly large implicit effect on the price of high-end tools, when a significant part of the market is assumed to be able to write off the price.

[Chris Padilla]

David, interesting point. I wonder how many pros buy Festool vs. non-pros...or as you put it: "legally able to write it off" vs. "not legally able to write it off" :) I am a hobbyist pure and through and I still have a garage full of green 'n black...and I can't stop adding to the collection...HELP!!!!

[Gary Keedwell]

The nice thing for a pro versus those of us who are hobbyists is that you can write off whatever you buy. That by no means makes it free, but it does allow you to adjust what that price means to you in terms of discretionary income.

I think that has a fairly large implicit effect on the price of high-end tools, when a significant part of the market is assumed to be able to write off the price.
For a Pro..dust control and alleged accuracy plus the benefit of initial expense of tool being absorbed...could justify purchase. As a hobbyist, most of my fussy components for furniture are done on the table saw. It would be fun to have a new tool but I'm saving my money for dust control.
Gary

[Matthew Voss]

...I don't know of an alternative that is any more accurate than a framer would require.


http://www.hoffmann-usa.com/htm/miter_saws/Omga_T-53-350.htm

http://www.omgainc.com/product_cat.php?cid=2

[Brian Weick]

I don't want to start wwIII here but you have to take in consideration the tool itself~ Materials used in the construction, the design and most of all- the warranty. there are a lot of Miter saws out there that are substandard ~if you put a good,well engineered blade in- it will improve the saws performance dramatically. as far as mitering- that falls on the engineering of the saw- I am not knocking festool- my point is that it is a lot of money to spend on a miter saw- I would love to see this come up in Consumer reports or a woodworkers report as a side by side review- it's not even listed yet in consumer reports- The Ridged dual compound miter saw got rave reviews - and look at the warranty- and thats why it's sitting in my shop write now and has been for the last 2 years with absolutely no problems at all- honestly. with the exception of the 70lb weight factor- it's on a MSUV stand and that is exceptional. I'm not trying to convince anyone to purchase any saw - I am just giving you my honest opinion- thats all.
http://www.consumersearch.com/www/house_and_home/miter-saws/reviews.html

there are drawbacks to every miter saw- nothing is perfect- lets be real about this- hence that price tag, My concern when I purchased my miter saw was Price/accuracy/reliability and what the manufacturer gave for a warranty-in that order. my miter saw has never let me down- it's done everything I have asked of it and more-and very accurate. I used to have the dewalt 12" dual compound sliding miter saw- It was a good saw up until the time the motor went on it after 14 months of use- warranty- gone. if you take comparisons of all the miter saws on a side by side there are +/- to all of them - just because a tool has 3xs the price of all the others out there does not always mean that it is better. I know that it is a matter of personal preference ,and to each his or her own- and in my opinion- there is no way you will get me to pay that kind of money for that saw-never~ if their so confident that is the best saw on the market than why don't they give you a lifetime warranty, which they should for that price ?- that speaks volumes in my mind. Festool offers 1-2 year warranty- Bugs and problems already exists- something to think about before you shell out that kind of money woodworkers?

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=57822

My 2-cents:)
Brian

[David Weaver]

Nice. A CMS that weighs 270 pounds!

[Matthew Voss]

The biggest improvement over other SCMS (that I can see) is that the head assembly rides along fixed rails - should eliminate any play that occurs on saws with sliding rails.

Oh, and no clearance necessary behind the saw. Push it right up against the wall...

Oh, and the weight...

[Rick Christopherson]

Oh, and the weight...The weight and balance are incredible. I was dreading the "trip" down the 14 steps in the narrow stairway going into my shop with such a large saw. It was actually a piece of cake because the saw is so light and more importantly, perfectly balanced at the handles. The saw was designed from the beginning to be portable, so it collapses and carries very efficiently.

http://www.waterfront-woods.com/festool/graphics/KP-07-lo.jpg

[Chris Smith]

Here is a picture if any one is interested. Looks like the MAP is Europe is $770 euros..so U.S. price would be about $1200ish.

http://www.fixy.co.uk/products/images/ithu641.jpg

[Matt Lentzner]

And costs $3K.

Kapex is such a bargain!

[Tim Marks]

http://quietboating.com/images/omga_t_50_350_large.gif
Ouch and wow, now there is a saw that would actually make me drool. The "cabinet saw" version of the CMS. 269# with cast iron base and 3hp induction motor (only $3k).

They also make a "budget" model out of aluminum which still has an induction motor and weighs a feather-light 144# (vs. 269# for the cast iron version) for a cheap $1300. If I was going to shell out "festool kind of money" for a CMS, there is no way it would be for kapex.

[Gary Keedwell]

And costs $3K.

Kapex is such a bargain!
Naw...Estimates are around $1200-1500. For $3K you can order two and get a couple of spare blades.
Another thing that hasn't been addressed is the accessories. You don't just buy a Festool without the accessories!!!:eek::D
Gary

[mike holden]

Isn't this price fixing a restraint of trade?
The dealer buys at an agreed upon price from the distributor and should then be free to resell at whatever price he chooses?
Isnt that capitalism?
I wonder about the legality of this.

As an aside, the price in europe is immaterial, it is the ability to sell below a standard price that I find interesting.

Mike

[Gary Keedwell]

Isn't this price fixing a restraint of trade?
The dealer buys at an agreed upon price from the distributor and should then be free to resell at whatever price he chooses?
Isnt that capitalism?
I wonder about the legality of this.

As an aside, the price in europe is immaterial, it is the ability to sell below a standard price that I find interesting.

Mike
I know what you mean Mike. I wish I had a dollar for every time we talked about this. If I'm not wrong, didn't Saturn (the car) start their dealerships by selling their cars at the same price everywhere? Do they still do that?
Gary

[Bob Childress]

Isn't this price fixing a restraint of trade?
The dealer buys at an agreed upon price from the distributor and should then be free to resell at whatever price he chooses?
Isnt that capitalism?
I wonder about the legality of this.

A recent Supreme Court case (not Festo-related) held that retail price setting at the dealer level is legal if it does not impinge on competition. The Kapex at that price will not affect DeWalt or anybody else. The court also held that the manufacturer had the right, in these circumstances, to make their dealers toe the line or face losing their franchise.

[BTW, price fixing originally meant multiple manufacturers getting together to fix prices across brands. THAT is restraint of trade and THAT is illegal.]

[Bob Childress]

I know what you mean Mike. I wish I had a dollar for every time we talked about this. If I'm not wrong, didn't Saturn (the car) start their dealerships by selling their cars at the same price everywhere? Do they still do that?
Gary

Yes, they do. And we are on our third one as a result. :)

[Brian Jarnell]

A recent Supreme Court case (not Festo-related) held that retail price setting at the dealer level is legal if it does not impinge on competition. The Kapex at that price will not affect DeWalt or anybody else. The court also held that the manufacturer had the right, in these circumstances, to make their dealers toe the line or face losing their franchise.

[BTW, price fixing originally meant multiple manufacturers getting together to fix prices across brands. THAT is restraint of trade and THAT is illegal.]
Nicely put.

[Terry Fogarty]

This is like Deja Vu all over again (domino):(:( : > )

Gary

Funny, deja view all over again. Why arnt i surprised:)


Rumor has it that "Kapex" is Greek for spending my children's inheritence. :>)
Gary

And credit to PatR for that wonderfull analogy;)

[Rob McGilp]

Given the world demand for the Kapex(of which I have one), its probably good news to all on the waiting list that there are still those out there who complain about the price and will never know the pleasure and precision involved in owning one. Everyone wins!

[Gary Keedwell]

Funny, deja view all over again. Why arnt i surprised:)



And credit to PatR for that wonderfull analogy;)
Mr, Fogarty,,,,where you been all these months? What brings you back? :eek::D Oh, there must be a new Festool product on the horizon again:D

[Chris Zenda]

I'm not too impressed with festool tools in general.

[Gary Keedwell]

I'm not too impressed with festool tools in general.
I have a couple of Festools. They definetly aren't for everyone. They could be considered pricey for the average hobbyist and weekend warrior. Alot of Pro's like them for their dust control and perceived durability.
Gary

[Bob Childress]

I'm not too impressed with festool tools in general.

Nice try. The fish aren't biting today.

:rolleyes::cool::D

[John Emmerson]

I have the Kapex - it is certainly well engineered and accurate. The ability to adjust the vertical mitre angle from the front is very neat. However, the Kapex is not perfect. The plastic table insert distorted and prevented the work piece from sitting flat on the table. This appeared to be due to the change in workshop temperature, so I had to remove it and file the fixing slots, something I do not expect to do on the most expensive mitre saw in the world!

Nevertheless, for me, the most important feature is its dust collection. It is excellent, and, in spite of my grumble with the table insert material, would recommend it on that point alone.
John

[fRED mCnEILL]

I'm certainly not in the market for a Kapex, although I would like a Domino but it appears to me that a lot of people like the Festool stuff because of the dust collecting abilty. I only work in my shop so dust collection isn't a concern but I certainly understand how someone doing reno work would place that feature quite high. I'm sure cleanup can take a considerable amount of time.

[Per Swenson]

A few things.....

No, I am not trolling for bait.

Disclaimer and warning...Ya'll know I am a huge Festool Fan.

For those who say you can't cut perfect miters with a miter saw,

either you don't have one of the big three( Soon 4), you do and

don't use it enough, or all your woodworking is done on a computer.

Remember, its WORK. You know, actual doing.

I have three compound saws, they all work.

I will have 4. A Kapex. As soon as it hits these shores.

Because no matter the cost, the ability to go in your home,

and finish your crown molding job a week before Christmas, with

a foot of ice and snow in the driveway and work DUSTLESS.

Is Priceless.

Per

[Will Blick]

Crown molding tool in the video at...

http://www.idealtools.com.au/webcontent107.htm

Question: is this Crown molding transfer tool, (not sure its name) uniquely designed to work with the Kapex, or is this a tool that can work with any CMS? I have not done much crown in the past 15 years, but if the Kapex simplifies it this much, I may reconsider :-) TYIA

[Brian Weick]

i like the 2 sided angle index. Just something I though i would mention here~ the dbl angle index is a great tool ~ that's fine- but lets not forget the full scope of inside cuts involved in cutting and installing crown molding , in the video -that tool finds the angle on both sides - at that point >< however ~this is not taking into account the entire length of that angle ~and the other consideration is the ceiling angles left and right which were not calculated into that cut-, if not considered ~ that's providing the ceiling is a true 90 degree angle to the wall - which as we all know- "has anyone ever had a perfect 3 sided junction" ` it's like winning the lottery on that type of installation-LOL - the other thing that hit me after watching that is something is missing from the video is you see the cut on the niche piece into the main wall - but where is the perpendicular joining piece from the wall ? I thought that was odd? Where's the proof ? wouldn't you agree?
In my opinion,and based on what works best from actually installing this molding, the proper and most professional way of doing an inside corner with a great looking seam in a home,or building, or i should say , unnoticeable seam ,is to cope the union point on 1 of the trim pieces. furniture and cabinetry construction is more precise in the angles of construction and that 2 sided angle index locater could be used for that -, I would use it- for sure, but using this tool for crown molding for for trimming in a home/building- if your lucky - great, if not -which is ussually the case, time to do it the write way. It is not because of the saw, just the method used for the installation. If you ask any high -end craftsman and see there workmanship with trimming a home with cove molding- most of them, if not all will agree that coping trim with crown molding is the best way of forming a clean seam at inside junctions without any gaps. Just my opinion.:)
Brian

[Terry Fogarty]

Nice try. The fish aren't biting today.

:rolleyes::cool::D

But one Flathead took the bait:)

[Rick Christopherson]

Crown molding tool in the video at...

http://www.idealtools.com.au/webcontent107.htm

Question: is this Crown molding transfer tool, (not sure its name) uniquely designed to work with the Kapex, or is this a tool that can work with any CMS? I have not done much crown in the past 15 years, but if the Kapex simplifies it this much, I may reconsider :-) TYIA
Yes, it will work with any saw and any type of miter cut. It simply bisects the angle of the walls (or whatever corner) and all you have to do is line up the laser with the line on the center of the jig. The nice thing is that it stores directly in the saw base so you always know where it is (my shop is a mess and I can never find anything).

[Rob Blaustein]

Because no matter the cost, the ability to go in your home,

and finish your crown molding job a week before Christmas, with

a foot of ice and snow in the driveway and work DUSTLESS.

Is Priceless.

Per

So we'll only have to worry about the snow and mud tracked into the house from those workboots...:D:D

[Dave MacArthur]

Capitalism:
1. Invent a better mousetrap. Or a tool that is sufficiently superior folks will pay for it.
2. Coordinate with folks to sell YOUR TOOL.
3. Have the cojones, branding, and power to go into the deal and EMERGE as the winner--agreements in place to PRESERVE your hard-won brand
4. OFFER your tool to FREE and UNCOERCED buyers for the maximum amount the market will bear.
5. Make a good profit off your hard work, committment to excellence and quality, and do so without letting some uber marketing congolomerate degrade brand while THEY make money by boosting their brand at your brand's expense.

Capitalism.
I would say Festool is a fantastic example of capitalism. While I don't own any of it, I applaud their existence. ;)

Erm... and just to keep this on topic, I am surprised that I haven't seen any comments from folks on the dust collection of this saw? That is an area where CMS and SCMS are known to be terrible, AND Festool's area of superiority! I read the whole thread hoping to see some comments on how this saw does vs. say my DW 715?

[Brian Weick]

this- I really want to give it a try - all this talk about this CMS - is it really all it's cracked up to be? you have to admit- that is an outrageous price for a CMS - I believe in buying good tools-honestly, but there must be something about this CMS that is drawing all the attention. I have asked my associates in the business ,as I am as well, and you would be surprised to find out what they use ,as well as myself. I won't repeat what some of them have said about the price on this~as was my thought originally, but then again they didn't even try it as i have not as well. There was 1 guy that uses it and says he will never have to buy another CMS and didn't look back after he purchased it. I am sure it is well engineered - I own German made car ,and there is a difference in the engineering, but when it comes to my tools ~ I am not to sure what to think and I barked on this thread about the price and maybe that was the wrong thing to do~ I have no experience with this CMS and I was just commenting about the price- so my apologies about my uneducated comments- now where can I give this a try? :confused:
Brian

[Gary Keedwell]

Hi Bri....You bored today?....digging up old threads:rolleyes::D
Gary

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/BobbyG53/NewEnglandPatriots1.gif Go Pats

[Brian Weick]

A conversation came about with one of my associates about Festool's CMS and I felt bad cause of my complaining way back on this thread about the price~ I really should not have commented the way I did- I had no experience with this CMS and if it's all it's cracked up to be- I wouldn't mind getting one. Just trying to set the record-
I'll be watching your Pats tonight and I hope they win Gar! Go Pats!:D
Brian

[Per Swenson]

Brian,

I haven't tried or seen one.

But judging from the talk on the festool owners group,

it works as advertised.

I have three rigs like the picture below.

Why three? Two jobs at once and a spare.

If I have to travel its a half days work for setup.

That is fine if I am staying, say, for a month or better.

One day, two day? I have to charge that setup and transpo time.

That doesn't allow me to charge competitively.

I charge a little less. potentially make a lot more.

If I can show up in the small fuel efficient SUV, and whip a saw out of a systainer. Wham bam thank you mam.

This is all about time, setup and clean up.

I make the saw accurate, anysaw, not the manufacturer.

Though they help a lot.

Per

[William Nimmo]

I can't wait to try it out and see if it is up to all the other festools I own.
And oh, by the way
GO GIANTS!
I hope they decide to play tonight and not let the pats off easy. Even though I doubt that it matters.

[Paul Greathouse]

I like Per's "I make the saw accurate" comment. Too many people are looking for the magic bullet. Even if you have the best saw made (which ever that may be in your opinion) the human factor can always kick in. The board has to be straight, square to the fence and laying flat for the cut to be perfect.

I'm not pushing any brand. I use Dewalt because I make cuts with it that are as perfect as can be detected on any square or angle gauge that I own. As with other comparable saws the dust collection is only marginal. Thats not as big a concern for me as it is for some. I don't do trim work for pay as I did at one time but I can see how better dust collection could be very beneficial if thats the way you make your living.

Some of you might want to check out Gary Katz website, he did a review on the Kapex that seems to be fair (he didn't bail off into a blinding RAHRAH session like some reviews do). Overall it appears he likes the saw but did point out some shortcommings that may be of interest. A couple things, if I recall correctly, was limitation of cut capacities in some situations and he also spoke of having to remove part of the dust control setup to cut taller baseboard upright. Read the review, draw your own conclusions. shttp://www.garymkatz.com/ToolReviews/Kapex.htm

[Bill Wyko]

It'll be added to my festool ensamble. The main reason is that it slides on rails in front of the saw instead of the back. I have the DW 12"CSMS and it takes up a bench that's 3 +feet deep. My shop is only 240 sq ft so realestate is at a premium. That's my excuse and I'm stickin to it.:D

[Frank Caponi]

Here is a photo of the new Festool Kapex

http://www.kapex.co.uk/

[Gary Keedwell]

I can't wait to try it out and see if it is up to all the other festools I own.
And oh, by the way
GO GIANTS!
I hope they decide to play tonight and not let the pats off easy. Even though I doubt that it matters.
I hope they play their so-called best players so we can beat them fair and square and then I don't have to listen to the crybabies say that we didn't "earn" the win.;)
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/BobbyG53/NewEnglandPatriots1.gif Go Pats

[Brian Weick]

that's the one aspect of the saw I really like- very compact- I really want to try it , or at least get to imagine using it ,but I am going to have to find a local dealer here in western NY.
Brian

[Brian Weick]

Brian,

I haven't tried or seen one.

But judging from the talk on the festool owners group,

it works as advertised.

I have three rigs like the picture below.

Why three? Two jobs at once and a spare.

If I have to travel its a half days work for setup.

That is fine if I am staying, say, for a month or better.

One day, two day? I have to charge that setup and transpo time.

That doesn't allow me to charge competitively.

I charge a little less. potentially make a lot more.

If I can show up in the small fuel efficient SUV, and whip a saw out of a systainer. Wham bam thank you mam.

This is all about time, setup and clean up.

I make the saw accurate, anysaw, not the manufacturer.

Though they help a lot.

Per

Per,
That's a Sweet saw you have there, a great set up as well, as soon as I can figure out where to check this Festool CMS out - I'm off!
Brian

[frank shic]

per, i'm thinking about getting a sawhelper like the one you've got in the picture so i was wondering which version you got (88 or 85) and when the best time to buy one of them would be? i've heard that they are discounted slightly at the JLC shows.

[Per Swenson]

Hi Frank,

That would be called a 85s today.

A 84" and a 50"

Best thing to do is give them a call and see what they have left over.

I love it...BUT!

I have some issues.

For that kinda money, the paint on the steel should have been a lot better.

Powder coat or POR15. All of the assembly bolts should be stainless.

I switched everyone of them.

Mine is 5 years(?) old, Hopefully they have improved some.

I whine and moan about these things because these saws spend a lot

of time out side. For some one who is just going to use it in a shop,

No weather problems obviously, but then you wouldn't need its full potential.

Besides those lil complaints...best thing in its class.

Per

[Roy Wall]

Hi Frank,

That would be called a 85s today.

A 84" and a 50"

Best thing to do is give them a call and see what they have left over.

I love it...BUT!

I have some issues.

For that kinda money, the paint on the steel should have been a lot better.

Powder coat or POR15. All of the assembly bolts should be stainless.

I switched everyone of them.

Mine is 5 years(?) old, Hopefully they have improved some.

I whine and moan about these things because these saws spend a lot

of time out side. For some one who is just going to use it in a shop,

No weather problems obviously, but then you wouldn't need its full potential.

Besides those lil complaints...best thing in its class.

Per

Good fixes Per - I like your style!

"If you want something done right - do it yourself" .....is a great decree.

Hope you have a super 2008!!!

[Brice Burrell]

Some info for you guys thinking about getting the Sawhelper miter saw stand (the one Per has pictured). A year or two ago the company sold, its new owner made some small improvements, one of them being a better paint job. It is my understanding that they are working on making the sawhelp fit the Kapex.

I did a short review on the Sawhelper on my (non-commercial) web site. http://www.burrellcustomcarpentry.com/subpage22.html

[Chris Zenda]

$1000.00-$1200.00 for a cast Aluminum saw :eek: I dont get this festool stuff at all.

[Gary Keedwell]

$1000.00-$1200.00 for a cast Aluminum saw :eek: I dont get this festool stuff at all.
Yea, and you might be low-balling it , too. I heard it could go as high as $1400. That being said, Festool does make some well engineered tools.

Gary

[frank shic]

per and brice, thanks for the opinions. great video on the setup as well!

[tim rowledge]

for a cast Aluminum saw :eek:

What's the issue with cast aluminium? I don't think anyone would like it to be made of machined billet steel, now would they? I daresay I could improve the design with some Carbon Fibre but then the price would go even higher.

[Brice Burrell]

What's the issue with cast aluminium? I don't think anyone would like it to be made of machined billet steel, now would they? I daresay I could improve the design with some Carbon Fibre but then the price would go even higher.

I believe the Kapex's base is magnesium alloy not aluminum. I also think Gary is right, $1400-$1500 is more likely by the time is saw gets here, I'd guess 6 months maybe longer. Can't wait for the carbon fiber models, hold onto your wallets!

[Gary Keedwell]

Back in the early 90's I bought my 8 1/4" Craftsmen SCMS (moans) and that sucker is cast iron and it got raked over the coals in the ratings because they said it was too heavy. They said it would be a hindrance to carry around so the next year Craftsmen changed it to aluminum.
Gary

[Chris Zenda]

Back in the early 90's I bought my 8 1/4" Craftsmen SCMS (moans) and that sucker is cast iron and it got raked over the coals in the ratings because they said it was too heavy. They said it would be a hindrance to carry around so the next year Craftsmen changed it to aluminum.
Gary

Gary,

I still have that exact saw, its the best SCMS I've ever owned.

[Gary Keedwell]

Gary,

I still have that exact saw, its the best SCMS I've ever owned.
Chris...do you have the cast iron or the aluminum? They only made the CI for 1 or 2 years, I think.
Gary

[Tony Franzen]

Hi first post on SC. The prices in sweden are like this:1397$ just the saw http://www.festool.se/mediandoweb/index.cfm?sLanguage=Swedish&ID_O_TREE_GROUP=5170&ID_O_PRODUCT=211240&BLATT=1&PARENT=1763 and then a set is avalible with a MFT and legs and some other things is at:2251$ http://www.festool.se/mediandoweb/index.cfm?sLanguage=Swedish&ID_O_TREE_GROUP=5170&ID_O_PRODUCT=281149&BLATT=1&PARENT=1763

I think its to hard to pres the saw down i guess that the springs or what it uses to keep it up is to hard/many i can only imagine what my arm would feel like after half an our of use.

Sorry for my bad english. Have a god one....

[Chris Zenda]

Chris...do you have the cast iron or the aluminum? They only made the CI for 1 or 2 years, I think.
Gary


Gary, The saw is 100% cast iron and has a 94 date code. I personally dont like or would ever buy a cast aluminum CMS.

[Rick Christopherson]

I think its to hard to pres the saw down i guess that the springs or what it uses to keep it up is to hard/many i can only imagine what my arm would feel like after half an our of use.

Sorry for my bad english. Have a god one....Hi Tony, and welcome to the creek. At first I was going to suggest that you take your saw in for service, but after re-reading your posting, I am not sure that you own one, or were just window-shopping. In any event, lowering the saw head is not difficult, and my 8-year old son has been using mine without a problem. If a saw head is difficult to lower, then it should be returned for service.

[Tony Franzen]

Hi. Nope dont got it i have had a coupel of shot outs and its much harder to get it down then say the makita, that has a whole other feel to it. But im willing to try it one more time but if i will start to like it i have to bring the big wallet with me...:)

[Chris Zenda]

What's the issue with cast aluminium? I don't think anyone would like it to be made of machined billet steel, now would they? I daresay I could improve the design with some Carbon Fibre but then the price would go even higher.

A weighty saw will perform better than a light saw, Steel base saws aren't machined from a steel block they are cast.

[tim rowledge]

A weighty saw will perform better than a light saw, Steel base saws aren't machined from a steel block they are cast.

Cast steel (not a common material in general; it's surprisingly tricky to manufacture) is obviously going to be about the same density and machined or indeed forged. It certainly has its place in the pantheon of materials. However, I guarantee I could design a SCMS or table saw using ally, carbon, aerogel etc that would be mind-bogglingly lighter than a typical cast iron machine and yet stiffer, more vibration resistant and stronger. It's not just the material (good though cast iron is for vibration dampening) it's also the structural design and details of manufacture that affect the end result.

Heavy for heaviness' sake is not a good answer.

[michael flay]

Was watching this old house the other day and noticed that tom silva had a kapex on the job site.