Shortest practical cyclone dustbin?

[Todd Franks]

I have a question for all you cyclone owners with short ceilings. Who has the shortest dustbin? What is the minimum practical height below the cone for a dustbin? I have 87.5" available and am going to go with a ClearVue CV1800. That leaves me about 20" below the cone and with a 4" length of flex hose only 16" for the dustbin. Is that too short? I realize it would require more frequent emptying, but it only gets hobbyist usage anyway. For a frame of reference I checked Oneida's website for spec's on their 35 gal drum. The diameter is listed at 22" which would put the height at 20.25" in order to be 35gal. I'll be making a custom bin and was wondering what others have done. I've gotten a couple of ideas from the CV gallery, but wanted to solicit ideas from here also. I can make it rectangular instead of round to gain back a few cubic inches. Any pictures, thoughts, etc would be greatly appreciated.

-Todd

[Randal Stevenson]

I sent off a question about clearvues cyclones, they responded about 3 months later. You can mount the cyclone at an angle to gain more room for the dust bin. They said they waited a while to try it, and said go no more then a 45 degree angle, and they could use a 20 gallon drum.

This would be my only option, since I am stuck with 6' ceilings in my shop (unless I move the shop into the main house).

[John Thompson]

I don't know your personal scenario Todd, but if feasible could you not cut a hole in the ceiling to give you the extra clearance. You can use a shorter bin and you can use 4" flex between (that is a PITA as the flex has to be flexed to allow the hose to clear the rim when emptying) but.. it's not the best solution.

BTW.. if you are in a garage (or whatever) that would allow the hole, it will not affect air intake on the motor mounted on top in most cases. The intake and fins are below the motor and will not cause any problems as I have done it in the past.

Good luck...

Sarge..

[Todd Franks]

Randal, Ed at ClearVue mentioned the angle installation to me also. I didn't really like that option as it takes up more horizontal space.

John, I have a basement shop with a drop ceiling. I could remove the drop ceiling above the motor to gain about 3". I’d have to remove a 2x4 drop in light fixture and replace it with a 2x2 also. I can't go between the joists as there is duct work in the way. I would prefer to keep the drop ceiling intact because I also want to place insulation above the ceiling to deaden sound transmission to the bedroom above. Since you say the less than ideal short flex and short bin will work, I think it is my best option given all my other constraints. Thanks!

-Todd

[Chris Padilla]

Is it possible to mount the motor on the side and attach it to the impeller with a belt/pulley? That would gain you some height but this requires a fair amount of custom fabrication.

Personally, I think you would have no problem with the small bin and it would be the easiest solution for you.

[Jamie Buxton]

Say you were to make a bin which is 16" tall and has a footprint of 2'x4'. The problem is likely to be that the chips form a pile which gets tall enough to close off the entrance to the bin. So you need something which moves the chip pile sideways inside the bin. You could use a paddle or a conveyer belt or a paddle-wheel. It could be hand-cranked, and you wouldn't need to crank it very often. You'd probably want a plastic window into the bin to see whether you need to give it a crank. After you've moved the pile a few times, the whole bin would be full, and it would be time to empty the bin.

This approach is a very small cousin to a feature seen on giant building-sized cyclones. Those cyclones often have a chip auger. It can be a foot or two in diameter, and it moves chips out of the collection bin into a truck or a rail car for transport to disposal.

[John Thompson]

Morning Todd..

I also didn't want to cut a hole as I came up 2" short. Could have.. but explored other options. I just shortened the flex pipe as your going to do to about 6". The flex I used from Penn State has some pretty heavy wire coiled inside for grounding and it was a small struggle to compress it to take the standard size chip bin out.

Hmmmmm..... stare at the problem with a cup of coffee is the way I usually solve shop problems. As I did, I noticed the blast gate on the "fine dust" bin as on all cyclones I have seen. I noticed the Penn State 1 HP I attached to my SCMS and router table in lieu of selling it. The intake has a Y port and one side is plugged.

Solution... I cut a hole and installed a 4" blast gate in the bottom of my large chip bin. Attached a 10' 4" pipe with a blast gate between the port and that pipe. Also added a blast gate just after the inlet for the 4" line leading to the SCMS & router. I just hang it on the ceiling until I need it with the blast gate closed to allow all flow to the SCMS and router T.

But... when it comes time to empty the chip bin, I close the gate to the slider and attach the 10" pipe to that bin. Open the blast gate there and turn on the DC. Sucks the chips over to the PS DC with a disposable plastic bag collector. Two minute operation as opposed to about 30 minutes.

So... I never have to remove that chip bin to empty. Just throwing some fuel for thought at ya. Ya gotta supply your own cup of coffee! ;)

BTW.. pics are on thread.. cyclone owners lend me your insight.... I"m kind of computer challenged and don't know how to link from that thread. Could get the lovely lady to do it.. but that would cost me an expensive dinner out. ha.. ha...

Sarge..

[Randal Stevenson]

Randal, Ed at ClearVue mentioned the angle installation to me also. I didn't really like that option as it takes up more horizontal space.

John, I have a basement shop with a drop ceiling. I could remove the drop ceiling above the motor to gain about 3". I’d have to remove a 2x4 drop in light fixture and replace it with a 2x2 also. I can't go between the joists as there is duct work in the way. I would prefer to keep the drop ceiling intact because I also want to place insulation above the ceiling to deaden sound transmission to the bedroom above. Since you say the less than ideal short flex and short bin will work, I think it is my best option given all my other constraints. Thanks!

-Todd

That was reason for me to avoid it as well. I started looking at the mini cyclone more, in part because of that, and in part due to moving more toward my EZ. (poratbility)
However, from Bill Pentz's site, he gave (don't remember off hand), a magic porportion number. Seems to me, when/if I get more time, I should be able to do the math, and come up with a midsize unit, that meets those criteria AND would fit in my space. Such is the problems with one size fits all woodworking.

[Dave Hale]

Here's John's post w/pics. I've got it bookmarked for a potential future expansion. :)

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost.php?p=692675&postcount=15

Sarge, all you've got to do is find the post, right-click on the post number (top right-hand) and 'copy shortcut'. Come back and paste it in. POC! :)

[Robert Payne]

Why not get the ClearVue CV1400? It is specifically designed for your situation and is only 82 inches high. The drawings on the CV site show a bin height of 24 inches for the CV1400 and the filters are mounted side-by-side.

[Todd Franks]

Why not get the ClearVue CV1400? ...

I considered the CV1400, but I am now really paranoid about dust collection. I bought a 2HP canister DC a few years ago that I now loathe. I don't want to make the same mistake twice so now I want to buy the big one as long as it fits. After talking with Ed he confirmed given my paranoia I'd be happier with the CV1800.


Is it possible to mount the motor on the side and attach it to the impeller with a belt/pulley? That would gain you some height but this requires a fair amount of custom fabrication.

Personally, I think you would have no problem with the small bin and it would be the easiest solution for you.

I didn't think of doing that, but it does sound like a lot of work. Small dust bin seems the way to go.


Say you were to make a bin which is 16" tall and has a footprint of 2'x4'. The problem is likely to be that the chips form a pile which gets tall enough to close off the entrance to the bin. So you need something which moves the chip pile sideways inside the bin. You could use a paddle or a conveyer belt or a paddle-wheel. It could be hand-cranked, and you wouldn't need to crank it very often. You'd probably want a plastic window into the bin to see whether you need to give it a crank. After you've moved the pile a few times, the whole bin would be full, and it would be time to empty the bin.

This approach is a very small cousin to a feature seen on giant building-sized cyclones. Those cyclones often have a chip auger. It can be a foot or two in diameter, and it moves chips out of the collection bin into a truck or a rail car for transport to disposal.

I considered the effect you described but I probably won't go as big as 2'x4'. A bin 2'x'2 by 16" tall is the equivalent of about 40 gal. I like the idea of a paddle but will probably take the easy way first by trying an occasional kick to the side with my foot to shake down the cone.


That was reason for me to avoid it as well. I started looking at the mini cyclone more, in part because of that, and in part due to moving more toward my EZ. (poratbility)
However, from Bill Pentz's site, he gave (don't remember off hand), a magic porportion number. Seems to me, when/if I get more time, I should be able to do the math, and come up with a midsize unit, that meets those criteria AND would fit in my space. Such is the problems with one size fits all woodworking.

I also considered making a midsize cyclone of either 15" and 16" diameter and buying a 16" impeller and housing from Ed. Bill Pentz has an Excel spreadsheet on his site that automatically computes all sheet metal dimensions given a few inputs. One of those is the cyclone diameter. I played around with this for awhile trying to maximize the cyclone diameter given the height I have available. The spreadsheet takes most of the math out of it for you.

Given my historical pace of progress on various projects, I think it is best to buy as much as possible and fabricate as little as possible. You all convinced me that I can make the CV1800 with a short dust bin, so I called Ed today and ordered a LH CV1800. My new fear is now noise, but I'd rather have a noise problem than a dust problem, that's easily fixed with ear plugs. Thanks to all the feedback, I can't wait to get started.

-Todd

[Alan Schaffter]

Put the cyclone outside- in the open if you live in the woods, in a shed if you have neighbors.

[John Thompson]

Here's John's post w/pics. I've got it bookmarked for a potential future expansion. :)

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost.php?p=692675&postcount=15

Sarge, all you've got to do is find the post, right-click on the post number (top right-hand) and 'copy shortcut'. Come back and paste it in. POC! :)

Thanks Dave! I suppose I haven't quite made it to the 21st century century yet as these computers are not my forte for sure. My wife retired early from MIS with the State of Georgia but it cost me "big time" to ask questions.

I do believe she doesn't trust me with electronics and "her" computer.. the other side of the coin is she has full trust when I have a sharp tool in my hand. :D

Again.... thanks mucho as it it simple it appears.. But.. if ya don't know, ya don't know! PM if I can return the favor. Just finished a bed I started 5 weeks ago this afternoon and may post it tomorrow if the toulene in the wax evaporates completely during to-nite.

Regards...

Sarge..