Question about LN planes on that auction site

[David Tiell]

Was looking at the auction site this morning, and came across 2 LN planes. One appears to be a scrub, and the other a BU LA smoother (seller claims to have no working knowledge of them other than size and pics). Both came out of a shop fire. The smoother still has both handles, but they need to be replaced from the looks of it, although I can't tell if they were burnt bad enough for any charring on them. The rest of the plane needs cleaning but looks useable. The scrub is missing a rear tote and needs cleaned, but otherwise looks OK.

My question is, could the fire have been hot enough to damage the metal but still left it looking OK? Would these be something to look at buying and refurbishing, or should I avoid them like the plague due to the fire?

And if you're curious, you should be able to find them using a search for LN items there.

Thanks,

DAve

[Wilbur Pan]

Short answer: I'd take a pass.

Longer answer: Many metals can change their properties with exposure to heat. Heat treatment of metals can make them softer or harder, and more or less brittle. This can occur without changing the shape of the metal appreciably, at least as far as the resolution of an eBay photo goes.

I can't speak as to the specifics of what these planes might have gone through in terms of the fire, but it's not worth it. The worst case scenario I can think of is that the fire made the planes more brittle, and you find this out the hard way when you bang the plane into something accidentally, and a crack forms across the bed, when it might not have otherwise.

[Mike Henderson]

Contact LN and ask them what they would expect the results to be if one of their planes went through a shop fire. They're good people and have always been willing to answer questions.

My guess is that it depends upon how hot they got. I doubt if the body is heat treated but the blade certainly is. And the body can warp from heat. Probably not so much that you can't fix it but you'd have to get it cheap to take the chance - IMO.

Mike

[added note] While it appears that the scrub got fairly hot - it lost the tote - a scrub is not a precision plane so if the body warped it doesn't make that much difference. But you'd have to get it cheap. You'll have to replace the tote and the hardware to hold the tote on, and you need to make sure the threads that the tote hardware goes into is still good. You might also have to replace the blade, but the working end appears to have been protected somewhat by the lever cap.
The BU plane probably didn't get as much heat since only the top of the tote and knob appear to be burned.
But both planes are risky buys - you'd have to get them cheap and someone is always willing to pay top dollar for a LN plane.

[Matt Bickford]

Warning: This guy is listing a total of 4 lie nielsen planes. He discloses that the 3 with wooden totes went through the fire. The fourth plane's description, a bronze edge plane with no wood, does not disclose that it went through a fire. I don't think I'm taking too many liberties by suggsting that it did. I would personally not buy from this guy. Maybe I'm wrong...

[David Tiell]

Thanks for confirming my thoughts on these. I do believe I'll stay away. I will watch them just because I'm curious to see what someone is willing to pay for them.

[Brian Hale]

Can you list an auction number? I'm curious....

Brian :)

[David Tiell]

Can you list an auction number? I'm curious....

Brian :)
Brian,
The two I saw were 370002471291 and 370002471296.

[Brian Hale]

Thanks David.

Not sure if i'd bid on them or not. They don't look all that bad but heat can do funny things to machined surfaces and since we don't know how they were stored during the fire the heat could have been very uneven.

Things that make you go Hmmmmm

Brian :)

[Lewis Moon]

Because I'm in the market for a LAS I asked the seller to put a rule on the bottom. The answer was that it had no discernible warps. I also looked up the properties of ductile iron and came away with the impression that in order to be hot enough to heat treat the plane the paint would probably be gone. I also got this off the Lie-Nielsen website:

"I took a machined No. 5 body casting out in the shop and threw it up to the 14-foot ceiling. The casting bounced on the cement floor but was not damaged. I did this many times but only succeeded in dinging it up.

Then I laid it on its side on the floor and went after the unsupported top edge of the side with a 10-pound sledge hammer, putting some effort behind it.

It did bend. A little.

These castings will not break. I guarantee it."

Now, here's my take: I'd probably bid on this plane provided it met the following price
$210 (FTJ Price)
- $10 (shipping +-)
- $25 (new tote and knob)
- $35 (Used price differential)
- $40 (It went through a fire...duh...)
= $100 Total
I think it will sell for more than that.
Just my $.02

[Dave Anderson NH]

A very good friend of mine who used to live on the other side of town had the unfortunate experience of having a house and workshop fire about 2 years ago. His shop was toast along with his equipment though some of the hand tools "sort of" survived. Among them were a dozen L-N planes. As an indication of how Tom runs his business, all of the tools were refurbished to new condition by Lie-Nielsen for no charge. I have to remember to thank Tom personally tomorrow when Mark Stutz and I are up up at the plant in Warren, ME. (double stealth gloat of tools road trip and a Creeker visit) Neener, Neener

[Marcus Ward]

Looks like this guy is selling a TON of planes and he doesn't disclose that they were all in a fire, just on the ones where the seller is going to be able to tell. I smell a rat. I am watching a couple of them to see how they do. I think greed is going to overcome good sense and they will get bid up far in excess of their worth.