EC Design Help, pls.

[Chris Padilla]

Hello Fellow SMCers,

I've posted this rendering of an EC my wife and I have been working on before. My wife likes where it is heading but I am losing touch with the design. I don't feel it flows very well due to the walnut mantle/colums/shelving unit.

Allow me a lengthy explanation of what you are seeing. All materials are maple plywood and maple hardwood unless otherwise noted.

The TV cabinet is on an 18-degree angle referenced perpendicular to the wall. This was done for a couple reasons:

(1) The TV is large and angling it helps it fit better. Thank goodness the TV's footprint is a trapezoid...helps immensely!
(2) The viewing angle is pretty much how we have it right now on its own stand.

Below the TV is where all the electronic goodies will fit. To the right of the TV will be the right channel speaker for the home theater setup. That light tan covering depicts speaker fabric. I plan to redo the box for the center speaker so it matches the cabinet better because I have no where else it can go. I plan for the whole face frame to be easily removable via magnets because the TV/electronics will be on their own mobile platform--see pic. Because the TV is a VERY tight fit, I would have no hope of wiring it up once installed. Further, the TV weighs 214 lbs.!

This mobile tv-stand also brings up a few more issues. It will be darn near snug with the inside of the cabinet to maximize space. This will necessitate the trim around the sliding glass door to be easily removable (sigh!), along with the faceframe. One quandary we have is if we should recarpet (new one coming) into the carcass of the cabinet or if I should stop just short enough that the faceframe would cover. With the tightness of fitting, the transition from the carpeted area to the subfloor (no real bottom piece for the carcass) could be difficult.

The 2 upper bookcases are pretty self-explanatory. About 1/3 of each will be a glass shelf unit with door/glass and a nice cabinet light (hocky puck) in the top. The other 2/3 is adjustable shelving.

The mantle unit is just that. A mantle of walnut with some stepped/tiered columns up to another shelf box. I'm not sure about how this box will be enclosed so it is open for now. All is slated to be done with walnut and walnut plywood.

The drawer cabinet (left of the fireplace) has been one that has gone through much redesign since it has, well, the most stuff on it. The latest design is shaker-like. I was shocked when my wife presented the drawing to me. The 12 drawers on top are faux. What it really is are 2 doors with the faux drawer look to it. The alternating wood will be a nice clean/clear maple and some curly maple. My program didn't have curly maple so I tried to set it off best I could.

The next section has two doors and two file drawers (centered). Again, I have light tan speaker fabric as the right door will contain the left speaker for the home theater. To aid balance, we will mirror that door with the second one. The two drawers in the middle will be nice deep file drawers with a mixture of maple and curly maple for the raised panel.

Finally, near the bottom we have two wide/deep but rather short drawers for my wife's large artist pads and related sundries. Again, these will have a maple frame with raised curly maple panels.

No hardware has been chosen yet.

If you've read this far and digested everything, I really do appreciate it. I am looking for some ideas on any aspect of the EC that you think might work. Tell me what you like...tell me what you don't like. I appreciate small details as well big changes.

Thus far in the project, I've only made the carcass for the TV cabinet so I've a LONG ways to go.

If you look in the OT section under "Fireplace Insert Issue" (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?threadid=5411&mode=linear&perpage=15&pagenumber=2) you can see a few more pics of things that might help you help me.

Thanks for all your help...I really appreciate it.

[Robert Ducharme]

In my untrained, inexperienced point of view, I think it looks unbalanced and a mixmash (is this a word?) of different design styles.

The TV side looks modern, the center gothic? and the left shaker? Round stone around the fireplace somewhat rustic?

The left and right of the fireplace would look cleaner angled the same but does waste some space. Can the TV be over the fireplace? How much latitude do you have in that area?

The little speakers over the TV also look out of place. Sort of like an after thought. Can you bury them someplace in the cabinetry?

The bookcase/display case at the outside edge where the TV is may be hard to get to but it was unclear from the drawing the dimensions. Also what reach is needed to get to the other bookcases?

What is above the fireplace?

I would expect the color of the wood and grain would be beautiful but would the whole unit be too heavy for the room?

[Chris Padilla]

Mishmash is the word you are looking for! Ha! :p If I force enough styles here, do you think it'll work??

I've tried to convince my wife that both sides should be angled but she didn't bite and, yeah, it would waste a lot of space or else I would need like 36" sliders for some of the drawers and long sticks to reach stuff waaaay in the back! :)

The TV weighs 200+ lbs and is a classic CRT. I'm not sure I would want to lift it up there. I have no doubts I could design proper support for it but it really isn't a good size or style to go in such a place. I almost wish it could as it would solve a lot of design issues and improve the balance immensely. The size of the TV nearly forces me to angle it as well. It would need to be angled for the best viewing position anyway so we have worked it into the design.

The center speaker bugs me A LOT. I have got to figure out a cleaner way to install it....

Absolutely correct! The access to the bookshelves and glass section of the upper right cabinets will be tough. I designed a matching angled piece for the upper cabinet but LOML nixed it.

The "picture frame" above the mantle will be, currently, for some piece of artwork. Personally, I'd like to find some really nice figured wood (maple burl would be cool, heavy birdseye or nice spalt) and make a large raised panel or something.

Good question on the heaviness of the piece.

Here is a before shot of pickeled/whitewashed oak cabinets that remained when we bought the house. Does this give some idea of dimension?

Thank you very much for your observations...please keep them coming. I really want this to work.

[Robert Ducharme]

Two thoughts:

How about removing the fireplace and putting the TV there (or at least block it off until you sell the house). When you want a fire, play a DVD of a fire with sound. Less fuss and mess.

Next, place the TV flat in that right wall with a door in front matching the left side appearance. When you want to watch it, have it rotate out from the storage area to the 18 degrees for ease of viewing. This way it is protected and when not being used help balance out the room.

[Chris Padilla]

Thanks, again, Robert. You are stirring the pot as I am getting some ideas about the TV section.

I am envisioning a wedged-shaped section (of a circle) with the rotating point on a pole and the TV sitting there. Then it would rotate out on a couple of wheels supporting the other end. Hmmm....stir, stir, stir....

Most excellent! :D

[Mark Singer]

Chris,
I design many great rooms in homes and encounter the problems and try to find simple solutions. If you think of going to see movie....the screen is the essence if the experience. You don't see amplifiers , speakers etc. .I very often remote the equipment so that the TV is the focal point...it is literely. If the Tv is a Plasma it can be set above the fireplace and it is actually a pretty good view ing position. I will try to submit a couple of examples that may help...

Wide Screen equipment is remoted to other location w/ DVD/Cd storage

[Jim Becker]

Well...you could take that bonus money and put a flat screen over the fireplace to keep the room balanced...

Seriously, from the pictures, the space is pretty narrow which is compounded by both the fireplace and large tube. If you are not married to the FP, the idea to block it off does have merit so you can set up a comfortable and symetrical viewing area.

Sometime in my copious free time...I'll have to show you what my challenge is with our "home theater" area in the great room.

[Chris Padilla]

Folks,

I discussed my concerns with the LOML on the ride home and after dinner and I finally came to a realization of why our current design was bothering me. I kept telling her that it doesn't flow well. Even when we made the mantle section in maple, it still looked disconnected.

The problem is that we have defined 3 sections to the EC. The middle, right, and left sections. One doesn't crossover into the other and somehow, in my eyes, looses cohesion.

Here is what we did to remedy the situation and break-up the 3 sections:

[Chris Padilla]

Basically, I extended the middle upper cabinet to flow right into the two upper bookcases. To not destroy this crossover, it is imperative to put doors (or whatever we decide) such that they do not line up with the two lower cabinets.

Finally, dumping the walnut and going for all maple seems to be the way to go. The LOML needs to work on the door design for the new upper middle cabinet but I think I feel TONS better about the flow of the design.

Still, I would LOVE to somehow incorporate some walnut into the design and I am all ears for suggestions. Every time I mention accents of walnut to my wife, she cringes. It seems she either wants a big section of walnut or nothing at all. I love the contrast between these two hardwoods but I certainly don't want to force it into the design if it simply won't work.

Yes, the TV angled out is still awkward but frankly, I see no way around it. We aren't getting a new TV and it pretty much needs to go where we have it. I think some more work could be done with the "doors" under the TV to allow more blending of cabinets. It is currently "black glass" to allow IR to penetrate to work all the electronic goodies. However, I see that Rockler has remote IR sensors available. This might allow hardwood/panel door fronts akin to the the cabinet on the left and help connect the two.

We also experimented briefly with the wall color in the mantle section. We still don't know exactly what is going there...could darn near be anything from a piece of artwork, a shelf with a vase or flower, or a large panel with some exotic wood (my choice! :D ) or something.

Thank you very much, Mark, for the pics. Everything helps. One never knows when one tiny little aspect of another design might solve and inspire. :)

Jim, I look forward to seeing your design issues. Perhaps we could help one another out. The funny part is, I suggested simply covering up the fireplace (we do live in CA afterall) but she really wanted it to stay so I put a TON of hard work and money into refacing the fireplace and installing an insert. We love the warmth it gives off now so it is there to stay! :)

Please keep the comments flowing.

Thanks! :)

[Dan Mackley]

Chris,

I normally just lurk here, but I had a couple of ideas to ponder...

Perhaps it would be possible to set up the TV side of the fireplace to normally sit straight, i.e. in line with the other side's cabinet, and to have the ability to pivot from a point on the fireplace side, thus swinging the TV/speaker/etc. assembly out when needed. A set of casters on the right side of this assembly, behind a skirt, might do the trick, with the pivot side being a large wooden hinge sort of attachment, maybe a pin inside a wooden shaft. I don't know if you have room for such a swinging assembly. [Edit: Looks like Robert and I are pretty much in agreement. Sorry, Robert, I didn't catch that the first time through this thread!]

Ideally you could also mount doors that match the other side's. Perhaps flipper doors? Of course this would eat into the real estate and increase complexity, but it might be worth it.

My other thought had to do with getting some walnut back in there. How about inlaid "flutes" on the columns above the mantel? Square-ended flutes seem to appeal best to me here. They would provide a nice accent and some perceived depth in that area.

Good luck with the design!

Dan

[Chris Padilla]

Hi Dan,

Welcome to SMC! I appreciate you burning a few brain cells to give me some food for thought.

One thing about the TV. We are a TV-concentric family. The darn thing is nearly *always* on. We're either watching our normal stuff (Seinfeld, Freinds, HGTV, TLC, A&E, Discover, etc.) or have a DVD going (heavy Netflix user). The kid, too, watches kid shows/cartoons on Disney and Noggin. So, in a nutshell, it would be pointless to put the TV behind any sort of door because the darn thing would be open 90% of the time!

I plan to make the black glass doors below the TV into doors that match the left cabinet so that should help gel things.

Nice idea about the fluted columns! That might be the ticket. I'll work on a design and see what the wife thinks. Cool!

More ideas! More ideas! More, more, more....! :D

[Bill Marcheck]

Chris,

Instead of the black glass a frosted blue might look good. Don't
know where to get it but it is a requirement of my upcoming EC.

Also since you watch TV a lot I would think about leaving a place
up top for a pull down video screen. You can get a very nice front
projector for $1000. You still might need a (smaller) TV for daytime viewing though.

Here's a link to a pretty cool wall unit, it might give you some
ideas.

http://www.plamann.com/sys-tmpl/bedroomwallunit/view_all.nhtml



Poke around on Tom's site if you haven't he does some amazing stuff.



Bill

[Chris Padilla]

Bill,

Tom has an amazing site and even more amazing creativity and workmanship. WOW! I am simply floored. Made his own lathe...grinds his own shaper knives...and that laminated cherry curved/twisted panel for the staircase underside is sheer genius. I am at a loss for words!

Thanks so much for the link...sending it over to my wife to look at. I'm in trouble now! :)

:D :D

[Chris Padilla]

Well, the tv stand is about done. I still have a few things to wrap up on it.

(1) Cooling You might have caught a few fans sitting on top of the fireplace. I picked up 4 120 Vac fans and I now need to figure out where and how to place them for maximum effectiveness. In the time I've been using the HT, I've notice that the receiver/amp gets quite warm. So warm that it heats up whatever is above it quite well. I think it will need moved to the upper shelf for sure. Further, I'll need to cut a grid of holes in the cabinet top to exhaust the warm air.

(2) Cable Management All those cables in back bunch up and prevent the stand from going all the way to the wall. I need a way to lift the cables up while pushing the stand into the cabinet. Probably just a piece of string on a hook/pulley will take care of it OR pull all the cable into the stand as I push it back but then I have a mess of wire inside the stand that will need to come out next time I pull the stand out.

[Jim Becker]

Chris, take a look at the way closed equipment racks are ventilated. Your application is pretty much the same. You want cool air to enter near the bottom and leave at the top since hot air rises. A couple fans in both locations should facilitate that nicely. To avoid something visible on the side near the FP, put your intake at the front of the cabinet in the "toe kick" area. Put the outgoing vent in the top of the unit as far towards the rear as you can do without interfering with other shelving/cabinetry that will go over it. You can cut/drill small holes in the top and put some black screen on the inside to keep debris from making it all the way in to the cabinet.

[Scott Coffelt]

OK, I have a couple of comments. How tied are you to the stone work? Does it match the rest of your house? What about changing it out for something like marple, slate something that bordered line on the modern side but was still neutral enough that it could go with other tastes.

Also on the cable front. What about some type of swing arm that either folded like and elbow and when you slide back it has a sring that will pull back together or could be straight but high enought that the cable and any slack would not touch the floor. A buddy of mine designs and installs equipment in hospitals (xray machines, etc) that have to move. He sets up unistrut on the ceiling with bearing guides. The cables are looped and cable tied together. As the machine is moved the guides slide along the strut and the cable flattens out. When returned the wire retracts.

[Chris Padilla]

Chris, take a look at the way closed equipment racks are ventilated. Your application is pretty much the same. You want cool air to enter near the bottom and leave at the top since hot air rises. A couple fans in both locations should facilitate that nicely. To avoid something visible on the side near the FP, put your intake at the front of the cabinet in the "toe kick" area. Put the outgoing vent in the top of the unit as far towards the rear as you can do without interfering with other shelving/cabinetry that will go over it. You can cut/drill small holes in the top and put some black screen on the inside to keep debris from making it all the way in to the cabinet.
Thanks, Jim. I have serveral grids of 1/2" holes drilled into the stand in key spots. Once I shuffle the HT receiver to a better spot for cooling, I will place 1 or 2 fans right behind it mounted right on the stand in back. I then will take the other two and mount them up high and towards the back and cut an appropriate grid in the top of the cabinet. At least my receiver as one switched output on it...that will be perfect for the fans mounted near it. As for the other pair high-up in the cabinet...I guess they should be on whenever the TV is on. I wonder if there are any cheap thermostatically controlled switches I could use for that pair of fans? Perhaps they need to be on when the TV is on, period?

I need to think carefully about the design of the face frame. There will be a decent gap all around the TV due to the fact that the TV's front isn't coplanar (darn it!). You can just see it flares out at the bottom in one of the pics. However, with a pair of fans mounted below the TV right behind the receiver, I should be in fair shape to get cool air drawn from near the floor...the "toe kick" area. There will be a piece of faceframe going along the bottom of the TV and "sealing" to that shelf. Now I just need to be clever about creating a decent air gap of about a 1/8" groove of some kind all along the toe kick area and have it not be too visible for the LOML's approval. :D

[Chris Padilla]

OK, I have a couple of comments. How tied are you to the stone work? Does it match the rest of your house? What about changing it out for something like marple, slate something that bordered line on the modern side but was still neutral enough that it could go with other tastes.

Also on the cable front. What about some type of swing arm that either folded like and elbow and when you slide back it has a sring that will pull back together or could be straight but high enought that the cable and any slack would not touch the floor. A buddy of mine designs and installs equipment in hospitals (xray machines, etc) that have to move. He sets up unistrut on the ceiling with bearing guides. The cables are looped and cable tied together. As the machine is moved the guides slide along the strut and the cable flattens out. When returned the wire retracts.

Scott,

Thanks for your comments. The stone work was something I labored over for many more months than I care to admit. See my post in the OT section titled Fireplace Insert Issues (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?threadid=5411). I am not happy with the way the 3 different colored stones came out but that is staying for a while. So, "yes," the stones are staying...they do match nicely with the maple, I think.

It is amusing to me that you mention marble and modern look for the FP. My wife wanted exactly that. Actually, she was thinking some nice tiles of some kind of stone (probably marble) or even a stucco look. I better not let her see your post! ;)

Your cable managment idea is intruiguing. I know it is difficult to explain in words but I think i have an idea of where you are going. I'll just need to think about it for a bit but thanks for the nudge in the right direction...I think I can make it work! :)

[Todd Burch]

Chris, very clever idea on the roll out TV unit. However, I think I can already see the top shelf sagging.... Whatchya going to do there? ;)

[Chris Padilla]

Damn you, Todd Burch...how the ~HE**~ can you see that??!! I stared at the pics and didn't think it was noticeable!

However, you are correct, the top shelf does sag a bit. I cut a 1" groove on the underside of the top shelf and epoxied in some steel 'c' or 'u' channel bar (3' long, 1/8" thick) to assist with this problem I was pretty sure I'd have. It sags but isn't too bad so I currently have no plans to do anything else with it. I think it'll be okay.

My shelf/vertical spacing is REAL tight on this stand so I can just barely fit everything in there. However, even with all this, I may end up with some electronic boxes mounted in the planned bookshelf above.

The roll-out stand was about all I could do in order to get this massive TV in that space and still be able to wire it up! Sigh...:rolleyes:

[Jim Becker]

Chris, your face frames will help deal with that very slight sag. Also, remember that you have a lot of speaker sitting on there right now that is not "normal" for a home theater speaker positioning standpoint.

[Chris Padilla]

Ah, wait...hold on. I was referring to the shelf the TV is sitting on! (Dammit, Todd Burch, now you made me reveal that that one sags slightly! :mad: :p) The shelf the speakers are sitting on is not their final resting position...just temporary 'cause I ain't got nowhere else to put 'em right now.

The right speaker will go to the right of the TV. I'll need to make a custom box to fit in the awkwardly shaped area.

The center channel wil go...I'm not sure yet. I almost need to leave it on top of the cabinet but I have a feeling I will put it just below the TV on the top shelf.

The left speaker will go on the other side of the fireplace in the drawer cabinet.

For the record, I plan to install a piece of hardwood "ribbing" under the top cabinet shelf to stiffen it up. Further I still need to place a ledger against the back wall for the top to rest on.

I'm also gonna get one of those infrared sensors to feed IR to all the electronics since I plan to cover up most of it.

My faceframe will not lend any support to the cabinet nor will it attach to the rolling TV stand...I think. Dammit, Jim Becker, now you've got me thinking! :)

My plan was to have the faceframe be easily removable (rare earth magnets) but perhaps there are other ways to make it easily removable yet add some support? hmmm.....