Yep, another ROS/vacuum question

[David Miller]

Hi All,

I want to purchase a new ROS and vacuum. I've been reading various posts and am still unsure what combination to purchase. Let me start with my requirements:

1. Dust collection. I've made dust collection a priority in my new shop. I want to minimize my exposure to fine dust.

2. Ease of use. This includes things like low vibration, good control, configurations that aren't annoying to use (tangled hoses, crazy adapters) etc.

3. Cost.

Here is what I've been considering:

1. Festool. I know this 'may' be the easy answer. But is it the only answer? I would purchase the ETS 150/3 and CT 22 combo.

2. Festool sander with Ridgid SNR equipped shop vac. I'd also go with a Cleanstream filter.

3. Bosch (either 3725DEVS or 3727DEVS) sander with Ridgid SNR equipped shop vac and Cleanstream filter.

4. Bosch sander with Festool CT 22.

5. Either sander with a Fein vacuum?

Questions:

Does the CT 22 clean the air any better than a Cleanstream equipped Ridgid vacuum? They are both HEPA rated (0.3 microns). The added features of the Festool are not a top priority (although I am aware of them).

Is the ETS 150/3 more comfortable to use than the Bosch?

How useful is the variable suction on the CT 22?

I welcome any comments/suggestion/questions.

Thanks!
Dave

[Gary Keedwell]

I was in the same situation a year ago. I opted for the Festool 150/3 and C 22 combo. The only probnlem I found was the 150/3 is a finish sander and not very aggresive, even using coarse sandpaper. On more then a few occasions I had to use my Mikita ROS to do the courser sanding, which of course, negates my original intent of dust control. I am now researching, yet again, another Festool to compliment the 150/3.:(

Gary

[Bob Childress]

Well, I am biased since I use the 150/3 and the CT-22. But I got there by trying other sanders/vacs and being unhappy. The sander: low vibration, solid feel, easy to use, and Festo makes superior abrasives (though good ones can be had for other sizes as well).

The vac: the CT22 really shines--
Low noise
Variable suction (important when sanding as too much makes the sander "stick" to the material)
Lock your sander systainer on top and good to go off site.
Power on/off connected to the tool

There are other good sanders, but I prefer the Festo because of the "system design" that works well with my other Festo tools.

Just my 2 cents. :)

[Art Mann]

A recent issue of Wood magazine did a review of random orbital sanders. Bosch, Festool, Ridgid, Craftsman, Dewalt and several others were compared. They liked the Bosch the best. It might be worth it to get the magazine and read the article.

[David Miller]

Wow, that was quick! Thanks for the responses.

Gary, I worry about wedging myself into a similar position. I'd rather purchase one sander that is more universal than investing in several units. On the other hand, maybe I have too narrow a view on sanding. I have different shoes for different activities (but my shoes don't cost several hundred $$$ :) ).

Bob, can you share some of the combinations that you tried in the past?

Art, I've heard that article mentioned elsewhere. I'll have to dig through my pile. Do you know if they rated dust collection?

Also, I wanted to add the Metabo SXE450 to my list. Any comments on this unit?

Thanks,
Dave

[Gary Keedwell]

Wow, that was quick! Thanks for the responses.

Gary, I worry about wedging myself into a similar position. I'd rather purchase one sander that is more universal than investing in several units. On the other hand, maybe I have too narrow a view on sanding. I have different shoes for different activities (but my shoes don't cost several hundred $$$ :) ).

Bob, can you share some of the combinations that you tried in the past?

Art, I've heard that article mentioned elsewhere. I'll have to dig through my pile. Do you know if they rated dust collection?

Also, I wanted to add the Metabo SXE450 to my list. Any comments on this unit?

Thanks,
Dave
Since my purchase if the Festool 150/3 I have read many posts that concur that the 150/3 is usually a complimentary tool used often in harmony with their Rotex sander.
Gary

[Bob Childress]

Bob, can you share some of the combinations that you tried in the past?

Thanks,
Dave

Sure thing. Not too exciting, really. Started with an old B&D but it shook my arm off. A Ryobi 1/4 sheet which spit dust everywhere. Then a PC 1/4 sheet and a PC ROS hooked to a shop vac. Some better, but the vac was too loud for my taste. Then bought the CT-22 and hooked to the PC Sanders. Huge improvement in dust collection! Didn't know what I had been missing!

But when I wanted to refinish a large entertainment center, the PC sander wore me out. It took forever. That's when I took the plunge and bought the Rotex 150. Can't be beat for aggressive stock/finish removal and virtually dust free. I would recommend the Rotex as an all-around sander. In rotary mode it hogs off the material and in ROS mode it gives a nice finish at higher grits. I later got the 150/3 for the shorter throw (3 mm vs 7 mm) which is a better finishing tool. After that, it went downhill fast. Added the DX93 for detail work and corner sanding and then the LS130 for profile sanding.

As you say, it can be difficult to find one sander to do everything. :)

The dust collection combo with Festo is the best I've ever experienced.

[Art Mann]

Art, I've heard that article mentioned elsewhere. I'll have to dig through my pile. Do you know if they rated dust collection?


Hi Dave,

I was looking for the article and discovered that my memory is bad. The article to which I was referring was actually published in Fine Woodworking Magazine, July/August 2006. That article did, in fact, measure the percentage of dust collected by each of the units rated.

[Jamie Buxton]

I'm not familiar with the Rigid shop vac you're considering, but generally shops vacs have two shortcomings compared to the dust extractors like the Festool and the Fein.

1) Shops vacs generally have a large-diameter hose which is more rigid, and it inhibits how you can move the sander around.

2) Shop vacs often lack the tool-triggered feature. For sanding, it is great to be able to turn the sander on and off, and that action turns the vacuum on or off.

If you're only going to use this dust extractor with a sander, you can buy a smaller unit with less dust capacity, and that will save you money over a bigger unit with more dust capacity.

[JayStPeter]

I have the ETS150-5 and a Fein. It works well and I recommend the sander. I wouldn't want a less agressive sander unless I had something like a Rotex that is more aggressive also. I find it good as a finish sander also, but I probably have just gotten used to using finer paper than those that have a -3 when flattening finish. If I had no vac, I'd probably get a CT-22, but I had the Fein before Festool came to the US. I use a Cleanstream with the Fein and also in my old Craftsman beast. They work well, but I think the bag in the Festool would make life a little easier than cleaning out fine sawdust clogged filters. The Fein does keep me from having to wear ear protection when sanding.

Jay

[David Miller]

Thanks for the additional replies.

The Ridgid vac that I'm considering is

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100046028&N=10000003+90106+524502&marketID=106&locStoreNum=4180

It has the noise reduction feature and people have said it is as quiet as the Fein and Festool. I would add the Cleanstream for improved filtration.

Art, thanks for the reference. I don't have Fine Woodworking here but I can stop by the library.

Jamie: the hose issue is not something I was worrying too much about but now I realize I listed it under number 2 on my list. So the better hose on the Festool is a positive. The tool activated feature is definitely nice but I have one of those Craftsman gizmos for switching tools on and off with the sander.

Jay, do you feel you can get a good finish with the 5mm stroke sander? If you had the choice would you rather have a pair of sanders: one less and one more aggressive?

I was looking at the vacuum and router support for the Leigh jigs and it reminded me of using the jig and shop vac a few years ago. One thing that came to mind is the Festool adjustable vacuum. Being able to adjust the suction for each application might be really nice.

Anyone have any opinions on my most important question: will the ambient air around the sander and vacuum be cleaner with the Festool vacuum compared to a shop vac with a Cleanstream filter?

Thanks again,
Dave

[Art Mann]

Dave,

Check your e-mail.

Art

[Joe Mioux]

For cheap,

a PC Quick Sander hooked up to a Shop vac. The only modification is a loop of electrical tape around the port of the PC dust chute. This combination works extremely well. I also have a Makita ROS and I like it better for vibration and smoothness of sanding put its dust chute is too small to accomodate the shop vac.

Also, as i skimmed through the festool gloats, I didn't see anyone mention the Festool Midi vacuum. It is between the ct 22 and the mini.

the difference is a significant price differential. The MIdi is very close to the mini in price, but the midi does not have the filter scraper or the Hepa filter. The midi also has a smaller hopper.

this is according to a salesperson at our local WC store.

joe

ps I really really want one of those Festool vacs!

[David Miller]

Art, I PM'd you. Thanks.

Joe, that's the setup I have now and want to improve the dust removal and filtration. I'd pick the CT 22 because of the HEPA filters. I think I'm starting to want one of those Festool vacs too. :)

-Dave

[michael osadchuk]

.....check this thread on the Canadian Woodworking Magazine forum

http://www.canadianwoodworking.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19215

regarding the Rigid 6" ROS models R2610 and R2611......

and also read the more detailed specifications and user reviews on
www.homedepot.ca (the big box's Canadian website)

the speculation is that the R2610 - now apparently no longer available - was a rebranding by Rigid/HD of the Metabo 450sxe and the R2611 in the China built version of that model

.... my comments the R2611 on the canadianwoodworking forum are under the name "michaely"

[Joe Mioux]

Art, I PM'd you. Thanks.

Joe, that's the setup I have now and want to improve the dust removal and filtration. I'd pick the CT 22 because of the HEPA filters. I think I'm starting to want one of those Festool vacs too. :)

-Dave

I used to think a Hepa filter was a huge deal in my garage/shop, but now I think it is overkill. If you want to improve the air quality, wouldn't an Oneida "mini cyclone" attached to your Shop Vac be just as effective?

AFter all, how many times have we heard that a cyclone is the machine that will save us from breathing in all that harmfull dust.

Joe

[John Hain]

I actually checked with Bill Pentz before buying my gear.

I sucked it up and got the Festool 150/3 and paired it with the Porter Cable 10 gallon vacuum. I waited until the Porter Cable was on sale at Amazon and got it for a bit over $200.

The vac specs are:



Air Volume Cu. Ft./Min.: 114
Vacuum Water Lift/In.: 94Bill Pentz thought the numbers sounded very good and the filtration efficiency provided very nice air quality during sanding.

Although I think you can't substitute for the Festool ROS to get optimal air quality, you CAN substitute the Porter Cable Vac for the Festool and save about $300.

[Prashun Patel]

I second the minicyclone preseparator, but WITH the hepa on the svac. Without the presep, you'll be cleaning the filter more times than you're gonna like if yr sanding a lot.

I hear the Fein is the best shopvac cum dust collector.

[Rick Thom]

I used to think a Hepa filter was a huge deal in my garage/shop, but now I think it is overkill. If you want to improve the air quality, wouldn't an Oneida "mini cyclone" attached to your Shop Vac be just as effective?

AFter all, how many times have we heard that a cyclone is the machine that will save us from breathing in all that harmfull dust.

Joe
I use an Oneida 'dust deputy' in front of my 15 year old C-man variable speed wet/dry shop vac for all my dry shop vac efforts including PC sander, Ridgid oscillating spindle/belt sander, router and general vacuuming. Out of conscience I bought and installed a HEPA filter in the vac last fall. There is virtually nothing that passes the dd; haven't ever had to clean out the vac in over a year because there's no dust in it and the filter looks like new. The HD 5 gal painters pail I use under the dd has been emptied quite a few times and typically contains hard packed dust in the bottom.
I use a 10' 1 1/2" vac hose in front of the dd and 2 1/2" oem hose from the dd to shop vac. This combination seems to work well. The dd doesn't seem to inject any restriction or loss in the system.
No, this isn't an advertisement for Oneida. btw, it also handles dry wall dust as well. Only drawback is that some might say it's a bit pricey at $100-150, but worth it to me.

[Dave Falkenstein]

Hi Dave,

I was looking for the article and discovered that my memory is bad. The article to which I was referring was actually published in Fine Woodworking Magazine, July/August 2006. That article did, in fact, measure the percentage of dust collected by each of the units rated.

There was some discussion of this article when it was published. IMHO, the test was flawed on the results for the Festool sander. The tester did not use Festool sandpaper, which has a hole in the center. That hole aids significantly in dust collection and reduces wear on the paper because of the superior dust collection. I'm sure Bosch makes a fine sander. But, there are way too many folks, including me, that think the Festool sander and vac setup is the best regardless of what that article concluded.

To address the OP's post - given the criteria you listed, I think the Festool sander/vac combo is your answer. If, and that's a big if, you find you "need" a more aggressive sander than the 150/3, the Rotex is likely the answer.

[David Miller]

I have a cyclone for my main dust collection system (no ductwork till the end of the month). My understanding is the cyclone removes the larger particles more efficiently and less so as you go down in size. That's why there is a filter on the outlet.

I have looked at the dust deputy and clearvue CV06 and really like the idea. But I don't think it would take care of the really fine stuff. But for the cost of the CT 22 I could get a mini-cyclone and a new shop vac with some change to spare. Hmmm......

Michael, thanks for the links. I'm checking them out now.

The porter-cable vacuum is now on my radar.

Thanks again everyone,
Dave

[Gary Sostrin]

I have the same ridgid vac as mentioned earlier and it is pretty quiet unlike my former craftsman screamer. I read else where when hooking up a sander you may need to decrease the suction so I bought this at lowes( http//www.shopvac.com/detail.asp?id=432) (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/http//www.shopvac.com/detail.asp?id=432). I will try it this weekened with my old dewalt sander (DW423) which kicks out dust into the air. Any comments about this addition?

Gary

[Jeff Norri]

Sure thing. Not too exciting, really. Started with an old B&D but it shook my arm off. A Ryobi 1/4 sheet which spit dust everywhere. Then a PC 1/4 sheet and a PC ROS hooked to a shop vac. Some better, but the vac was too loud for my taste. Then bought the CT-22 and hooked to the PC Sanders. Huge improvement in dust collection! Didn't know what I had been missing!

But when I wanted to refinish a large entertainment center, the PC sander wore me out. It took forever. That's when I took the plunge and bought the Rotex 150. Can't be beat for aggressive stock/finish removal and virtually dust free. I would recommend the Rotex as an all-around sander. In rotary mode it hogs off the material and in ROS mode it gives a nice finish at higher grits. I later got the 150/3 for the shorter throw (3 mm vs 7 mm) which is a better finishing tool. After that, it went downhill fast. Added the DX93 for detail work and corner sanding and then the LS130 for profile sanding.

As you say, it can be difficult to find one sander to do everything. :)

The dust collection combo with Festo is the best I've ever experienced.


Hmmm I about to go down your road. I have a PC ROS and Shop vac with Heppa Filter. To be honest I can't complain about dust with this set up, but I would like a more aggressive sander. I tried the rotex and really liked it but new it would not be the only sander in my shop as it was not fine enough. Do you find the ETS to leave a finer finish then your ETS?

If I could just get this sanding thing down, my woodworking would be much faster.

[Jeff Norri]

I'm not familiar with the Rigid shop vac you're considering, but generally shops vacs have two shortcomings compared to the dust extractors like the Festool and the Fein.

1) Shops vacs generally have a large-diameter hose which is more rigid, and it inhibits how you can move the sander around.

2) Shop vacs often lack the tool-triggered feature. For sanding, it is great to be able to turn the sander on and off, and that action turns the vacuum on or off.

If you're only going to use this dust extractor with a sander, you can buy a smaller unit with less dust capacity, and that will save you money over a bigger unit with more dust capacity.

If you already have a shop vac you can use a Festool hose with it, great combo. You can get the on off switch set up seperatly. Of course if you buying new, why modifiy everything - just get the vac that has what you want.

[Jim Eller]

I'm another Oneida Dust Deputy fan. http://www.dustdeputy.com/

I did the cyclone only thing and it works great with a small/cheap Lowes Shop-Vac. The dust goes in the plastic bucket and the Shop-Vac keeps suckin' without pluggin' the filter every five minutes.

Jim

[David Miller]

Had to take a break from sanders and vacuums and get some sleep! :)

Based on everyones comments I've refined my ideas for my sander/vacuum setup. I'm still considering the Ridgid vac with and without a mini-cyclone. I've also included the Fein vacuum in my list. I had discounted it because once you added the better filters it wasn't far from the CT-22's price. I figured that if I was going to spend that much I might as well go with the Festool. But I've discovered that with the use of a cheap bolt I can use a Cleanstream filter designed for a Craftsman shop-vac.

The Fein sits in the middle. Great vacuum with good features at a lower price than the Festool. Does it have some sort of vacuum control? I'm interested to hear some comments from Fein users.

Gary, let us know how that air control works.

Also interested in more comments on the dust collection of the Bosch and Metabo sanders. The Metabo has dual modes much like the Rotex but at a much cheaper price point. How about pairing it with a Fein vacuum?

Thanks,
Dave

[Gary Keedwell]

Hmmm I about to go down your road. I have a PC ROS and Shop vac with Heppa Filter. To be honest I can't complain about dust with this set up, but I would like a more aggressive sander. I tried the rotex and really liked it but new it would not be the only sander in my shop as it was not fine enough. Do you find the ETS to leave a finer finish then your ETS?

If I could just get this sanding thing down, my woodworking would be much faster.
I have the 150/3 and really like it but it is a finish sander and is not meant to get you from the rough by itself. I have had to get my Makita ROS out of moth balls because it is alot more aggressive. Only problem with that is I have my dust problem back again. Oh well, I'm only a hobbyist so my problem is small. Glad I don't have to sand every day.:)
Gary

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Some thoughts . . .

The FWW review of sanders gives nod to the Bosch 1295VS. I have 3 of those and they are great. HOWEVER, this is a comparison of 5" sanders. The Festool 150/3 and 150/5 are both 6" sanders and considered quite superior to the 5" Festool. The review did look at dust collection both with unspecified vac and with dust bag attachment.

I use a Festool Midi vac. Right combo of size, performance, features for me. It was combined with my Domino which gives you a decent discount. Buy the vac with a tool for savings. The Midi has great filtration. I changed the bag twice on mine. The inside of the machine is compleatly free of dust to the naked eye. The second time I replaced the bag I pulled the filter out to check it / blow it out. There was nothing there. Really impressed. The Midi also includes the hose garage built in. That is actually a cool feature. I do not use the systainer stacking system on the top, though I did check it out when I got the vac and Domino. I guess it is cool if you want to go that way. I sold my systainers as I just don't like digging tools out of boxes. Stacking the systainers on top of the vac would also inhibit the hose garage. You want to keep the hose put away. You dont want to step on a $80 hose.

The Bosch 1295s work great. Dust collection is wonderful with $4 Bosch adapter. The Festool Midi connection hooks up very well to the adapter with no modification. The 1295 has a fair amount of vibration which is why I started looking at other sanders. Again, for $70 the 1295 is just awesome.

The Festool 150/3 is a great sander. Much lower vibration. As noted it is a 6" sander. Also as noted it is a finishing sander. It is not aggressive. It produces a fine surface. The 150/5 would be slightly more aggressive. I do not own the 150/5. BTW the number after 150 referes to the amount of travel of the pad, thus the aggressiveness of the sander. The dust collection is good on the the 150/3 but, IMHO not amazing. If I never saw any dust that would be amazing. But when you start working on edges, etc you will still see dust. However, collecting that dust would require so much suction from the vac that the sander would stick to flat surfaces. The 150/3 has a nice weight and balance to it. I use Norton 3x sanding supplies which have the Festool hole pattern. It works as well, if not better than the Festool branded papers, IMHO.

The Bosch 3727DEVS is a great 6" sander. I ordred one from Amazon a few weeks ago for around $80. This gave a discount on accessories and there was a buy 4 for the price of 3 thing going on for the Mirka Gold sandpaper, so I loaded up. The same $4 adapter that fits on the 1295 will fit on this thus the vac connection was again secure and almost like it was made for the machine. The 3727 design looks incredibly similar to the 150/3! I guess there is not much room for creativity in a 6" ROS. Anyway, the Bosch does have a handle you can put on the front for a little more control. The Bosch is slightly less comfortable, I would rather use the 150/3 for 8 hours per day. But a few hours per week is likely a toss up. Just to be anal I bought 120/180/220 grits of Norton 3X to match the stuff I was using on the Festool. I put some Sapele through my dual drum sander and worked through the progressions 120/180/220 using the Bosch on one side and the Festool on the other. I could not tell a difference. Neither had any swirl marks or machining marks visible to the naked eye. Both left a soft pleasing surface. I used sapele as it machines well and will show machining marks pretty easily. I had a very small sample of folks (4) look at the board, touch the board, etc. All 4 picked the Bosch finsihed surface. I don't know why and my sample size does suck. As I stated I could not tell a difference. I have noted that the Bosch is slightly harder to control than the Festool. I did have an epiphany the other day that this could be because the Bosch may be creating too much suction and sucking the ROS to the surface. I can hear more air moving through the Bosch than the Festool. The Festool shoots air out of the middle hole which would help the ROS not stick to the material due to suction through the other holes. The Bosch does not have this middle hole and my vac suction is at 100% so that could be the problem. My new heat pump / AC is not installed in my shop yet, so I haven't braved the cold to test this theory.

Pricing . . . . I could buy 3 of the Bosch units for the sale price for 1 Festool. If I had $260 and the option to buy either 3 Bosch sanders or 1 Festool I'd have to get the Bosch sanders so I wouldnt have to change grits! LOL! They are both fine sanders and you can't go wrong with either.

[David Miller]

Jeffrey, thanks for sharing your experience with the Bosch and Festool combinations.

When you say the Festool is more comfortable than the Bosch, are you referring to vibration? Or maybe ergonomics?

Do you think if you turned the vacuum down when using the Bosch that it would perform similarly to the Festool in terms of dust collection and control?

Thanks again,
Dave

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Jeffrey, thanks for sharing your experience with the Bosch and Festool combinations.

When you say the Festool is more comfortable than the Bosch, are you referring to vibration? Or maybe ergonomics?

Do you think if you turned the vacuum down when using the Bosch that it would perform similarly to the Festool in terms of dust collection and control?

Thanks again,
Dave

Both ergonomics and vibration are better on the Festool. It is lighter and smaller than the Bosch, though the Bosch does have the front handle.

I will try to get out to the shop shortly and check my Bosch theory. I think Bosch DC would still be great even reducing the suction.

I'll let you know.

[Rick Thom]

A couple of things I haven't heard much mentioned wrt vacs that would interest me beyond suction, noise level and reliability are wet/dry capability, vacuum/blow option, accessory on/off and variable speed. Periodically i use my vac for other than workshop chores as well.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Jeffrey, thanks for sharing your experience with the Bosch and Festool combinations.

When you say the Festool is more comfortable than the Bosch, are you referring to vibration? Or maybe ergonomics?

Do you think if you turned the vacuum down when using the Bosch that it would perform similarly to the Festool in terms of dust collection and control?

Thanks again,
Dave

Ok, changing my story on above reply. Just spent about 30 minutes with each. I would say the Festool is more ergonomic. It is lighter and a lower profile. The Bosch is heavier and is taller. Where I am changing my story is on vibration. Used both of them at the same time, switching hands. The Bosch has lower vibration. I am suprised by this. Remember this is one of the reasons I moved from the 1295 5" Bosch to the 6" Festool ETS. Both the 6" Festool and 6" Bosch are better than the 1295 5" Bosch.

I figured out that I was putting too much pressure on the Bosch thus causing the jerking. The vac level did not matter, however the since the Bosch is heavier I needed to use lighter pressure on the Bosch. REmember, we need very little pressure on the ROS, only enough to guide the sander. ROS theoretically performs better with no pressure as the ROS can move quicker and more freely.

So, in summary I am going to actually recommend the Bosch given the price difference. I still believe the Festool Midi is a good value for a vac.

Oh, one last note . . . . the Bosch 6" plug is a bit odd. Both of the prongs are the same width, ie one is not larger than the other. All my other stuff, including Bosch 1295 5", Bosch routers, DeWalt routers, Festool plug it, etc all trigger the Festool vac to come on automatically when the tool is turned on. The Bosch will not trigger it to come on. Actually the Bosch will not work at all in the Festool Midi outlet. I assume this is due to the lack of one plug prong being larger than the other.

[Ken Genovese]

Dave,
I have 3 Festool sanders and use the Rotex the most. I did not buy their vac yet. I have been using a Fien and it works well. The problem I have is with the using the small Festool sanders with this vac, too much suction, and it causes the sander to jump a bit. I am looking at getting the Midi. Festool is one tool that I have purchased and not wished I got something else. I've got drawers full of sanders and will give them to my kids and grandkids fro starter tools. You won't reget getting a Festool.
Ken

[David Miller]

Jeffrey, thanks for doing a comparison of the sanders. It really is interesting that the Bosch ended up with less vibration. Maybe because of the greater mass? But the fact that it won't trigger the midi vac is very troubling.

Ken, do you feel the Rotex gives you an adequate finish compared to the other Festool sanders? I think the largest Fein vacuum has a little port on the hose to control the suction.

-Dave

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Jeffrey, thanks for doing a comparison of the sanders. It really is interesting that the Bosch ended up with less vibration. Maybe because of the greater mass? But the fact that it won't trigger the midi vac is very troubling.

Ken, do you feel the Rotex gives you an adequate finish compared to the other Festool sanders? I think the largest Fein vacuum has a little port on the hose to control the suction.

-Dave

I saw a review on Woodcraft where a guy said the Midi would not trigger a Fein Detail Sander. Anyone out there have a Fein Detail Sander that can look at the plug and see if it has two narrow prongs for plugs?

I am not Ken, but I have used the Rotex quite and bit and it gives a great finish in finish mode. I found the 150/3 to be more comfortable to use all day than the Rotex.

[Brad Evans]

One thing I like about my Fein II (and mandatory for me) is the optional HEPA filter. No such option available for the CT Midi unfortunately - with the larger Festool vacs HEPA is standard.

[David Miller]

Brad, I agree, I definitely want a HEPA filter in whatever vac I end up with. I'm going for the best filtration possible. This is also the reason I haven't been considering the Midi or Mini from Festool.

-Dave

[Randal Stevenson]

Based on everyones comments I've refined my ideas for my sander/vacuum setup. I'm still considering the Ridgid vac with and without a mini-cyclone. I've also included the Fein vacuum in my list. I had discounted it because once you added the better filters it wasn't far from the CT-22's price. I figured that if I was going to spend that much I might as well go with the Festool. But I've discovered that with the use of a cheap bolt I can use a Cleanstream filter designed for a Craftsman shop-vac.

Thanks,
Dave

Dave, you don't need that bolt. While you can use it, I found the Cleanstream at Lowe's (cheapest price locally), and tried it and it was a compression fit (didn't need the bolt, which I had bought). Now I need to get a real cyclone, as I am using one of those Woodcraft plastic lids (gift) on a 5 gallon bucket, and the paper bags in my Fein II. I helped clean up a Rondo Sheeter, to replace some bearings (pizza/bakery equipment, LOTS of flour), and VERY LITTLE of the flour made it into the bag, and the filter didn't need cleaning. I was impressed.
Try the filter first, you may not need the bolt!

[Brad Evans]

Dave, I've been using my Fein II for about 7 years now. Really pleased with it - works well and is quiet. I'm going to get another Fein, the smaller Turbo I, for a dedicated station.

BTW, the Fein I & II use the same head - just different capacities.

[Steven Wilson]

I have three Festool sanders (Rotax 150, 150/3, RS400), CT22 vac, and the cleaning kit (D36 Universal). The system works very well from agressive to fine sanding and into the corners, plus cleanup. Combine that with systainers for storing your consumables and you have a compact, transportable, high performance system that can't be beat. Although my prior setup was good (fein vac, PC, Dewalt, and Bosch sanders), the dust collection and ergonomics of the Festool system is superior. So just get the wallet biopsy out of the way and enter sanding nirvana.

[Mark Valsi]

I HAVE DONE IT, NOT TOO HARD, USE THE INCRA miter gague or use the Incra fence system


I wouldn't use walnut if I were making root beer out of Sassafrass <G>

[David Miller]

First, thanks to all of you for sharing your experience and opinions. It has really helped shape my thoughts about a sander/vac combo. I'm still not 100% sure about what I'm going to do but I am leaning towards the Festool setup. The reason being that I know that it works. I don't want to mess with anything, I'd rather purchase something and have it do what I want.

Another reason I'm leaning towards Festool is because of their environmental practices. I'd rather purchase one tool and have it last longer. It results in less waste. I realize there are no guarantees (Festools can die early, others can run forever). I also appreciate their recycling efforts.

Anyway, I hope to make a decision very soon because I have projects that are waiting on a sander. :)

-Dave

[David Miller]

Just wanted to close out this thread by sharing my decision on a sander and vacuum. I decided to go with a Fein Turbo III vac with the Metabo SXE 450 sander. The Fein is proven, quiet, and clean with appropriate filters. The Metabo sander is dual mode and a quality product. I think this is a good combination for the price.

Thanks again for the help,
Dave

[Gary Sostrin]

Sorry I was late with my test on Saturday, I found out that my water heater had a leak on the top and we had a little flooding. Need to replace next monday or tuesday. Next time I will pay attention to my wife when she says she smells something funny in the garage.

The following test is subjective because I had no measuring devices and I only used my eyes and my sense of feel. First I used an 80 grit mirka sandpaper on my Dewalt 423 and sanded a 1-2' 2x4 (scrap). I could tell by sight of the sawdust shooting outside of the edges. Next I hooked up an adjustable air adapter from lowes (see previous reply), and an adapter to fit my ridgid 16 gal vac (again much much quieter than my craftsman). Adjusted the air flow for full open (sliding tab) so there was a 1 1/2" by 1 " on the adapter in the vacuum path at the hose. I turned the vac on and then the sander. I still saw a little bit of sawdust (less than without the vac) come out and by sliding the plastic tab on the adapter to close off the above opening, the dust became absent. After shutting of the sander, I could feel the suction from the sander as I slid the tab further to decrease the vacuum opening. I then used the sander that was off to vacuum the extra dust around the block of scrap wood. Also somewhere I read about not providing to much suction or it could bogged down the sander, so I did not operate the sander with the vac with the tab on the adapter fully shut off. To one of the previous posters, thanks for the comment about the cleanstream, I will go and buy one. Also I bought, a lee valley trashcan lid and have not tried it yet to my ridgid vac for a cheap 2 stage. When I do I will post.

Gary