Stanley 60 1/2 - is this a common fault or should I bin it?

[Simon Varley]

I have no experience with planes and I have just bought through ebay a Stanley 60 1/2. Beforehand I spent some time on the web reading how it is necessary to take the time to set them up to work properly and I was very prepared to do this and learn on the way. However, I am slightly shocked and disappointed to find that the bed for the blade has been machined out of true, so the mouth of the plane does not run squarely at ninety degrees across the sole (which seems to me a pretty dreadful fault for a plane to have!). This means that the blade protrudes further at one corner than the other, although, if I skew the blade right over to one side I can just get it to protrude evenly, but then the edge of the blade does not meet squarely with the face of the adjustable mouth, which is perfectly square with the sole.

I am wondering if this is a common fault or whether I have something which is never going to function as it should do, and what the best solution might be. I have thought about fileing off the face of the adjustable mouth to the same angle as the blade makes (which seems to be the same as the edge of the mouth which is not square) which would at least make them parallel and therefore give some point to having an adjustable mouth, but having no experience this may not be necessary or may well me the wrong thing to do - or perhaps it would be better to try and skew the blade in my Eclipse honing guide, but this seems to me a bit tricky and difficult to repeat accurately. Apart from this fault it is in really perfect condition and so I would be very grateful for any comments or suggestions you may have.

Simon

[Zahid Naqvi]

Considering you are new at this, I'd saw the safest approach for your long term mental health and continued interest in hand tools is to just dump the plane and call it a lesson learned. I am sure the problem can be fixed to an extent that it can be made workable, but you can spend the same amount of time and effort on another 60-1/2 (which is a wonderful plane BTW) and get a really sweet tool.

This is an unavoidable side effect of dealing on-line, some times you do get burned. If the defect was not disclosed ask the seller if he/she would refund your money. Most seller are willing to work with you, if not you can file a complaint and move on with your life. Also keep in mind the option of buying tools from someone like Clint Jones(member here at SMC) or Walt (brasscityrecords.com), who will charge you just a little bit more, but provide you with a good tool and offer a full refund if you don't like it. Depending on where you live you might have good luck scanning the local flea markets and estate sales.

[Lewis Moon]

I had a blue 9 1/2 that I had to bin because I never could get the sole trued up. The sucker was literally almost taco shaped...from the factory! I also have a pristine post Sweetheart/pre-war 4 1/2 that had the same problem as yours. It happens. I trued up the sole as much as I could w/o the throat going trapazoidal and it works fine.
From what the old machinest down the block says, cast iron tends to warp and move a bunch if it's popped from the mold too soon. That said, as I posted elsewhere, I believe that the sweetheart and earlier planes have truer soles.

[Clint Jones]

Simon, Blue stanley block planes are still quality planes (unlike the bench planes. If I am understanding the situartion correctly, it sounds like there was a chip in the throat at one time and someone filed it out making the mouth uneven.

[Lewis Moon]

Simon, Blue stanley block planes are still quality planes (unlike the bench planes. If I am understanding the situartion correctly, it sounds like there was a chip in the throat at one time and someone filed it out making the mouth uneven.

I think he means that the sole was machined out of true with the bed of the blade. I've seen a few planes with this problem that have never had the sole monkeyed with (both those in my previous post). Quite often I'll see a plane that if you look at the edge of the toe from the front, one side is significantly thicker than the other and sometimes the opposite side on the heel. The entire casting got twisted in the manufacturing process and Stanly just went ahead and machined a flat sole on it anyway. Most of the time this is of little or no consequence but sometimes it's pretty bad.

[Wilbur Pan]

Your plane sounds like it's not in great shape for "fine" woodworking. But I would keep it anyway, and look for a 60 1/2 in better condition. If this is your first hand plane experience, it is well worth spending the extra cash to either get a plane you are sure will be in good condition, or even better, take a class on sharpening and using a plane.

As for your current plane, you'll always need a beater plane for rough jobs that you don't want to use your good plane for. That's how I wound up with 2 60 1/2 planes in my shop.

And after fiddling with it for a while, you may just find that combination of adjusting the blade and the mouth opening to make it a more useful tool than you might think. If I understand your situation correctly, if you can set the blade and adjustable mouth so that the blade protrudes evenly and is parallel to the adjustable mouth, you'll be in pretty good shape, even if the mouth as a whole isn't square to the body of the plane. Reshaping the blade so that the cutting edge is skewed to adjust for the out of squareness is also an easy thing to try. After all, that's pretty close to how a skew block plane is set up.

But get a plane in better shape first.

[harry strasil]

cast iron is seasoned, so that all the warping and twisting due to stresses is overwith before it is machined. Rolls Royce used to bury their engine blocks for up to 7 years before they were removed and machined.

[Simon Varley]

Thanks for all the replies!

The sole is quite flat and square with the sides and I believe it would clean up with very little work, I don't think it has ever been touched. Apart from not being square with the sole, the mouth is perfect and I am sure has not been monkeyed with. As far as I can see the problem occured when it was machined, which is why the mouth is not running at 90 degrees across the sole.

Wilbur suggests that if I can get the adjustable mouth parallel with the blade I'll be in good shape, I can only do this if I file the face of the adjustable mouth to be parallel with the blade. The blade has to be pushed right over to one side to protrude evenly so it will always make the same angle, so fileing the adjustable mouth to the same angle should work.

[David Tiell]

Thanks for all the replies!

The sole is quite flat and square with the sides and I believe it would clean up with very little work, I don't think it has ever been touched. Apart from not being square with the sole, the mouth is perfect and I am sure has not been monkeyed with. As far as I can see the problem occured when it was machined, which is why the mouth is not running at 90 degrees across the sole.

Wilbur suggests that if I can get the adjustable mouth parallel with the blade I'll be in good shape, I can only do this if I file the face of the adjustable mouth to be parallel with the blade. The blade has to be pushed right over to one side to protrude evenly so it will always make the same angle, so fileing the adjustable mouth to the same angle should work.
Wilbur also mentioned shaping the blade to match the opening, meaning put a little bit of a skew on it. I think I would try this first before taking a file to the mouth. Having a little bit of skew to the blade can be a good thing. That's why a lot of people skew the plane a bit when planing with the grain. You get a little bit better slicing cut of the wood fibers.

[Jim Dunn]

Harry, are tool manufacturers stress relieving their basic parts before machining? Seems like the auto industry is having a heck of a time with brake drums and such warping Or is it just them?

[josh bjork]

Simon, hold the filing for a minute. I have a 9 1/2 with the same deal. The situation is that the frog is not parallel with the sole. I studied mine forever and that is what I came up with. The casting is a little thicker on one side and it sets that side of the blade up a little higher than the other, hence the skew.

[Brian Kent]

Or you just have a rare gently skewed block plane.;)

Could be worth a fortune!

[Corvin Alstot]

The situation is that the frog is not parallel with the sole. I studied mine forever and that is what I came up with. The casting is a little thicker on one side and it sets that side of the blade up a little higher than the other, hence the skew.
Or the blade has a skew at the sharpened end and is not square. I have seen this a few times.

[josh bjork]

Or the blade has a skew at the sharpened end and is not square. I have seen this a few times.

how true. I suppose you could square or skew the blade to make it look square too.