The compact shop (long)

[Matt Lentzner]

I am both blessed and cursed in my woodworking hobby.

I live in a suburban housing development with a smallish yard (no outbuildings) and a two car garage. I have negotiated to have half of that garage for my woodworking hobby. I can use the entire garage for working, but when I put everything away it must fit in the single car side. That's the curse.

The blessing is that the weather is exceptionally mild where I live in Silicon Valley. Not too hot and not too cold and not much rain. I can work outside 90% of the time and I often do. I use the driveway and also the side yard on occasion.

I currently own a portable table saw (Bosch 4100 on Gravity Rise Stand), 12" SCMS (also Bosch) on MSUV, EZ Smart Guide for circ saw and router and Smart Table, DeWalt three base combo, and various hand tools. All those tools take up very little space when put away. Currently all my work is with sheet goods so I feel pretty comfortable processing that stuff. The EZ Smart system made a huge difference in my ability to handle full sheets and cut them accurately.

I want to get into working with solid wood, but I have to remain within my space budget. I'm looking for ideas on how to do this.

Here's what I've come up with so far:

- Get a Jointer/Planer combo machine or get an 8 inch jointer and a lunchbox planer. The J/P seems like the best option on the face of things, but we're talking a hefty price tag, a large machine, and also one I can't move out of the garage. A lunchbox on a PSUV can be easily moved around and will store on end, taking up little space when stowed. The 8 inch jointer will still take up some space, but maybe the combination of those two tools will be better than the larger one (certainly cheaper!)

- Don't buy a cabinet saw, get a bandsaw instead. Cabinet saws with side tables and outfeed tables take up a sick amount of space. Bandsaws are nice in that their footprint is much smaller. I won't argue that a table saw is a very useful and versatile tool, but is there a combination of other tools that can cover the breadth of what a cabinet saw can do while taking up less space? Cutting sheet goods is easier for me with the EZ Smart setup. The SCMS is easier to use for crosscuts. Wouldn't these two tools make the side table for a cabinet saw unnecessary? (am I missing something here?). A bandsaw combined with a jointer should make the cabinet saw's job ripping redundant. Milling joinery can be handled by the router on the EZ Smart system. I would still keep the portable saw for repetitive rips and crosscutting smaller pieces.

- My next project is to build a router table. I had the brainwave on building it as a benchtop and mounting it on a Bosch gravity rise stand so I can stow it on end and wheel it to wherever I like. I'm also stuck with a Stanley workmate as a workbench so I was thinking of building something more substantial and mounting *that* on a gravity rise stand as well. I'm a little worried that a heavy topped table like that might be a little tippy when stowed on end.

I think there are a lot of people in the same boat as I so I was hoping to start a discussion going beyond my personal situation. I'm just throwing it out there to get the discussion started.

Best Regards,

Matt

[Bob Aquino]

Matt
I work in a somewhat cramped space as well, so I can sympathize with your plight. You say you want to work "solid wood" but that still is pretty wide open, do you want to make jewelry boxes or dining room sets? The answer would better focus the discussion.

My working has always been focused around the table saw, I've had a unisaw for the last 9 years or so and I wouldnt be without it. If you are really happy with the bosch, then thats fine, I hear some very good things about it. I have a 6 inch joiner and a lunchbox planer, I would eventually like to swap them out for a 12" combo machine. The lunchbox works, but it is what it is and after this much time, I would like a heavier machine that wont snipe so much. I use the benchdog portable router table, I think it works pretty well for what it it. I have an 18" delta bandsaw, an upgrade from a 14. Go big if you can on this unless you will be doing alot of intricate work where a 1/4" blade wont do it. I have a festool saw so I am with you on the guided saw and cutting sheet goods.

What you dont talk about is a bench and dust collection. Neither of which is all that portable. You can start out with a small collector and move it around, its a pain and that kind of pain doesnt lead to a lot of useage. A nice workbench would also be a plus, you can make it mobile, but most people dont. Heavy is better. With a nice bench you could look at getting into some hand tools like planes. Now there is portability for you.

Hope all this helps.

[alex grams]

I am exactly in the same boat as you. I have a 2 car garage, and the stipulation is that i have to be able to park the wifes car in there.

Here are some things I have done:

I have a TS3650 Table saw ( http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/TS3650-Table-Saw/EN/index.htm )
as my main piece of equipment. I have a work bench in the shape of an L, with one side being a bench, and the other large cabinets for storage of my tile saw and miter saw. I constructed the left side (storage) of the L to a height about 2" higher than the table saw. So when the table saw is not in use, i just wheel it under the bench. Sure, it sticks out about 6" more than the bench, but not enough to stop me from accessing any tools i need. This has been a HUGE advantage in space saving when not using the saw. (and you were right, the Table saw is a HUGE space consumer).

Other things I have done:

Router Table: Constructed out of doubled up 2'x4' 3/4" plywood with the top being a finished surface painted to lessen friction (one day it will be laminate). This is nice in that when not in use, i just hang the top on the wall and it is 99.9% out of the way. I also constructed the fence out of some angle iron bolted to a doubled up 1x4 oak. (no detectable bowing on either the table or the fence).

I got rid of the center room shop table and having is permanently placed in the room. When I need a table, i have a 4x4 piece of 3/4" i lay up on two saw horses. (the router table goes on sawhorses also).

Wood storage: hang it on the wall (but just be careful of large sheets to have them properly supported, or else they will bend).

My bandsaw has a very small footprint (G0513X2), but I had to do a lot of space saving to convince my wife to allow me to purchase it!

Good luck. I think with some innovation you can save the space a TS would consume (just make it a mobile saw).

[Jim Becker]

Matt, the best thing you can continue to do is keep mobility in mind. Mobility is not a problem for the larger tools, too, like a J/P. But also do note that virtually all J/P combos require dust collection...you shouldn't really run them without it. A traditional jointer and a lunchbox planer can be used without a DC--although it's not the best idea for health reasons. I have to counter Bob on the idea of DC portablity...all of the single stage DC systems are inherently portable (and that's how they are recommended to be used, too) and you can even get a roll-about cyclone system from Oneida if that's what you want.

But back to moblity...it makes having a "tool coral", as you really will have with your setup, an easy possibilty.

[Don Bullock]

Matt,
You face the same problem that many of us face, especially in a place like California where there are no basements in houses. If you search through the various woodworking forums you'll find many solutions to the problem. They are infinate. There are also many different garage based wood working shops on the Fine Woodworking website. Unfortunately I'm never sure on their website which pages are open to the "non-paying" public. You can try to view Bill Endress's shop at http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/Workshop/WorkshopTour.aspx?id=22880. I think it's the ultimate shop in terms of the portibility that Jim Becker mentioned and Bill is even able to park two cars in his garage.

My situation is similar to yours. I have a customized car that has to be parked in the garage every night (too tempting if left on the driveway). Right now the major tools I have include a SawStop, 14" band saw, 8" jointer, DW 735 planer on a DW planer stand, a SCMS on a stand, a rolling tool chest with a 12" drill press and a bench top mortiser plus a portable 1hp Jet DC. In addition to those I have a small router table and all the "necessary" portable tools. For assembly/and flat surface workspace I have a solid ash dining table that I made many years ago and, like you, my "workbench" is a Workmate. Of course on top of all that there's quite a bit of wood being stored in the garage, a large roll-around Craftsman tool chest, storage cabinets and a corner for storing the dog food for our seven basset hounds. As you can see, a lot of tools, etc. can be stored in a small space with some planning and mobility. Fortunately my wife and I are planning on moving in the next few years and a "shop" for me will be a big priority. For now, I am able to work in my shop quite easily with access to all the tools without moving them unless I'm working with very wide or long wood.

[RickT Harding]

Talk about living in my world. I've been fighting this as well and while I don't have all the tools I hope to have (missing DP and BS right now)

I've got an ok start. So here's how I'm solving various problem:
Lumber storage...go up and up. I've gotten the really heave duty borg shelf racks (12-18") and mounted them up high along the walls on all three sides. All the way around. Here's one I setup.
http://www.mihardings.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=13937&g2_serialNumber=2

I've also gotten those hangers that are T-shaped that are meant for running boards between and used those for additional lumber storage in the middle of the garage from the joists. I tend to keep those loads light (so 2x4 and short lengths usually) since I've not checked what the joists can hold. :o

They're like these, only they have hanging space on both sides, so mirror this:
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=267966-46880-HH2N1-12RO&lpage=none

As for the rest, my plan is to run a counter along one wall and make everything mobile carts from there. My jointer is going to fit under one length, and I hope to put together a router table and another cart that are sized to be outfeed tables on my TS. That way they get out of the way under the counter when I don't need them.

I've been using sketchup to try to plan some things out:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2301/2058241786_bca06b8c75_b.jpg

The bench behind the TS right now is just a solid core door on saw horses.

The other thing is just to use up space when you find it. Under my TS wing was space so I built a rolling cart to go under there. That way I can pull it out when I boot the wife's car out and can use it as a surface to work on, but then hide it away when going into compact mode.
http://uploads.mitechie.com/images/wood/ts_roll_around_015_small.jpg

Anyway, hope this gives you some ideas and as someone going through the same thing I hope to see some other nice ideas come out of this discussion

edit:
Another pic that shows some of the T-shaped lumber storage with me putting up some more on the upper wall rack space as well:
http://uploads.mitechie.com/images/garage_work.jpg

[David Giles]

The obvious solution is more workspace, so push the limits on this idea first. Can you add a door to the back/side of the garage that goes onto a deck or concrete pad? How about moving the EZ Smart cutting table outside under an awning permanently? Build it out of weather resistant MDO? Buy the wife a smaller car and take over more of her side? Get divorced and take over all of it? (just kidding).

Creatively use that space between the cars and between the car and the wall. 8" between the garage door support and wall will accomodate full sheets of plywood and lots of hardwood stored on end. Tool storage fits well. 12-18" allows metal shelving units or the J/P combo. Sooner or later, you will want a drill press. Put it on the other side of the garage or, in your climate, outside under cover.

The jointer planer combo would fit your objectives. It's not really portable, so you might as well get a 12". But the combos are reasonably short and can be placed against a wall. Ideally, you want to joint a 6-8ft board. But if you rough cut to length first, few boards are over 4ft.

Workmates are wonderful tools. As a quick and dirty assembly table, a 3x5 piece of melamine bolted to a 2x4 and clamped to the workmate is quite stable. Don't stand on edge and knock off the workmate folding legs. I'd be tempted to make the fliptop rolling cart (shown in the EZ forum section) of MDO and store it outside.

Sounds like you've got a good handle on what you want to do. You are getting the most out of each tool instead of buying a separate tool for each job.

[Wilbur Pan]

Hi Matt,

My workshop is in my basement in a space that's 20' x 11'. I thought about many of the same issues as you have. Here's a quick list of what I have in my shop:


10" jointer/planer combo machine. Rikon used to sell one of these. I can say that a combo jointer/planer saves a lot of space compared to separate units, and you will love having the ability to use a jointer on wide boards.

Bandsaw. I use this instead of a table saw. A 3/4" 10 tpi blade can give you surprisingly smooth cuts on plywood. For solid wood, I'll be using the jointer or more often hand planes to smooth the cut anyway, even if I was using a table saw. Plus you have your EZ Smart to fall back on.

Floor standing drill press.

10" x 36" lathe.

1 1/2 HP single stage dust collector.

Workbench to hold sharpening equipment.

6' "real" workbench (currently still being built, but I have a dedicated spot for it).

The jointer/planer and dust collector are on mobile bases, and I'm thinking about putting the bandsaw on one, but I haven't really had a need to move the bandsaw around. In your case, since the only jointer/planer combo units that are readily available are the new 12" models that are much bigger than mine, I would consider making the jointer/planer stationary and the bandsaw mobile.

I don't have a table saw, and so far I haven't run into the project where I would really need one. Ditto for the SCMS. The router table I'm undecided on, but I think I could put in a router table if I need to.

I also use hand tools whenever possible. This saves a lot of space.

Bottom line, I've been able to work comfortably in my workshop in my limited space with this set of equipment, and I don't have the luxury of going outside. But I would support a decision to get a jointer/planer combo and to use a bandsaw instead of a tablesaw.

[Ed Brady]

I am also setting up in a small space in our basement. We moved to Colorado from California where I was able to move tools outside most of the time. I bought FWW's Small Woodworking Shops at my local Woodcraft store. I picked up some good ideas and there is one section called "Smart Shop in a One-Car Garage" that I thought was quite helpful. Have fun

[Randal Stevenson]

Your going to have to decide for yourself, how you work (comfort) and needs.

You have a table saw, which you can use for larger/thicker boards. You can get some board straighteners for it, to edge joint. You can use your router to edge joint. You can use your EZ smart to edge joint. You could buy a portable planer and use it with the SRK to edge joint.

With a portable planer, and some sleds, you can flatten both faces and also edge joint. Do you really NEED more then a 13" model? Are your boards wider then that? Do you have the storage room for that wide of lumber?

I agree a bandsaw would be better, since you have a table saw, but only you know your needs. I would still put the bandsaw on a portable base, in case you ever need to do a large item, that you could wheel it around.

I am not comfortable yet, with large bits and the SRK. I haven't tried it, so I can't say how it will work. This is why I still have/use a router table (comfort includes feeling safe doing something). But I use a cheaper miter saw then you, and have a older, decent radial arm saw. I think both of those will be replaced with a smaller rail, and Dino's miter gauge for crosscutting (still in the works).

As you can see here, I use the EZ for more of everything. I have a basement shop (though probably smaller then your garage), but the EZ allows me to combine the resourcefulness of the old timers ways (neanders, check out that section for ideas), with the speed and convenience of power tools. Home use power tools, are not that old, and we forget that when we look to build things.

[Mike Henderson]

I have the same California limitations as you - but in southern California. My shop is 10' by 11' - about 110 square feet. I don't have a jointer so I flatten boards by hand. I have a planer (DeWalt 735) so I can thickness things fine. My table saw is oriented against the garage door so I have to open the door to use it. I built an outfeed table that folds down - I have to lower it to close the garage door. I also use the outfeed table as a work space. I built my router table into the wing of the table saw. I also have a drill press, bandsaw, lathe and miter saw in the shop. I have an air compressor outside the shop, in the garage, and piped air into my shop.

I closed in my shop (built walls) so that the dust wouldn't get all over the rest of the garage. The one major thing I'm missing is dust collection but there's simply no room for it. My dust collection is the open garage door.

You can do a lot in a small space. Don't let space limitations keep you from creating furniture.

Mike

[Jerry Olexa]

There's much to discuss but just my topline thoughts. Not everyone will agree with me.
1. TS in my opinion is the central tool to building furniture. It provide accuracy, ease of ripping etc. I could not build without it. A bandsaw is better for circular shapes, resawing etc.
2, Think MOBILITY. All my tools in both basement and garage shops are on rollers. It allows you to move and compress your tools when not in use.
3. If you are just starting, a planer and jointer are not essential IMHO.My first few years, I would pay the mill an extra 20./BF to joint 2 sides of the stock. Then I would do rest on my TS etc..Then I added a planer and later, i bought a jointer as my experience increased.
Just one man's thoughts...

[Art Mann]

Sounds like a great plan to me. The Bosch tablesaw is a very credible precision tool from all I have read and will do a good job for you. Just hang on to it. I am sure Wilbur will disagree, but I have both a bandsaw and a tablesaw and I don't believe you will be satisfied with either one as a permanent substitute for the other. I predict you will find that the bandsaw is not a good tool for ripping long lumber. The table is too small and too high, and you can't get a bandsaw blade that will rip near as cleanly and smoothly as a glue line rip blade. I normally don't use any tool at all to smooth the edge after cutting and before glue-up. I'm not trying to discourage the bandsaw purchase. I am mighty glad I have one. I just think the tablesaw you already own will do a better job for most rip applications if that is what you are buying it for. (JMNSHO)

[Bob Potter]

Hi. Matt
As most of the people who answered you I too am limited on space. My work shop is a 16' x 24' garage. I have a router table, table saw, planner, two band saws, jointer,miter saw station, radial arm saw, drum sander, drill press and dust collector plus a spindle sander and belt disc sander.
The car goes in the garage every night.
All machines are on mobile bases and stay mostly around the outside walls except for the table saw which when not in use goes under the miter saw bench at the end of the garage. The table saw has a extension table to the right and a 52" rip capacity . There is also an extension in back that folds down.
My wife is amazed when I get another tool and still find room for it. All though I'm about at my limit. If you work at it you can do wonders in a small shop.

Hope this helps, Bob

[Wilbur Pan]

Sounds like a great plan to me. The Bosch tablesaw is a very credible precision tool from all I have read and will do a good job for you. Just hang on to it. I am sure Wilbur will disagree, but I have both a bandsaw and a tablesaw and I don't believe you will be satisfied with either one as a permanent substitute for the other.

No real disagreement -- I can do rips just fine on a bandsaw, even on long boards. On the other hand, I can't drill straight to save my life without resorting to a drill press.

If you go straight from a machine cut to glue up, then, yes, there will be a difference between a table saw and bandsaw. The main thing for me is that regardless of what power tool I use for a cut, I'm going to wind up cleanng the cut with a hand plane anyway, so to some extent it doesn't really matter what I cut it with.

[Jeff Sudmeier]

I have a Delta cabinet saw with a 52" rip, Delta DJ20 jointer, HF DC, 5 foot by 2 foot lathe table, 6 foot by 2 foot rolling miter cabinet, 5 foot by 2 foot work bench, planer, router, grinder and scroll saw in one bay of a 2 car garage.

The table saw is mobile and the other tools are light enough to carry around... Don't discount larger tools, I just have to move them around to work, a pain sure but the only way I can do it :)

[Brian Penning]

I can only show you what I have. Photo is of my 11 X 20 shop. Not very big but it's mine. The jointer is there behind the Ridgid planer on the right. I find it best this way cause the DC hose is always on the right side for the main 3 dust emitters. Everything is on mobile bases and one of these days I even intend on putting the bench on one.
Great thing is the folding TS outfeed table (a la Jim Becker). I probably would have more floor space if I put the bench along the back wall but it's nice being able to have access from 3 sides on projects.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f193/Bri68/Miscilaneous/IMG_2607.jpg?t=1196890113

[Paul Johnstone]

If your portable table saw is good enough for ripping hardwood accurately, and you like using a circular saw for sheet goods, I think a bandsaw instead of a cabinet saw is fine. You can rip hardwood on a bandsaw, but keep in mind this is more of a "skill" and an "art" vs doing it on a tablesaw (no learning curve). But it is a skill you will pick up over time. The warning is that you shouldn't expect to be an expert at it on day 1.

I would get an 8" jointer and seperate planer over a combo unit. Heck, if I had the money for a combo unit, I'd get a floor planer too. They don't take up that much space. I have the 13" Jet planer/molder and love it. There are advantages to having a floor planer vs a lunchbox. They are more stable, easier to avoid snipe on, and allow you to take deeper cuts.
But if all you can swing is a lunchbox planer, definitely go for it.

If I was constrainted to 1/2 the garage for storage and could use the other 1/2 temporarily while working, I'd get a full size table saw.
My guess is that the bench top saw can't run a dado blade and is not as accurate as a contractor's saw (or hybrid or cabinent saw). Even if you only got a 30" rip fence, I think you'd like it better than a benchtop. But you can get by with a benchtop, I did for about 4 years.

[Tim Marks]

I feel your pain. I just moved from a house where my basement shop was 30x30 to a 10x20 garage (without 220V!). It was difficult to stuff everything in to a cramped (to me!) space and still make the tools useable.

Grizzly has a CAD-like tool on their website that allows you to play with the arrangement of tools in your shop to help you envision where each can go. It has most standard sized machinery. Click on the "Build your dream shop" link on the left side of their main page to get to this screen, and hit the LAUNCH button:

http://www.grizzly.com/workshopplanner.aspx

Plus, the real beauty is you can see if you can fit in ONE more tool. This small shop space has put a big crimp in my tool-collecting hobby... the arrangement below lets me add a lathe and a mill...

http://quietboating.com/images/shop.JPG

[John Newell]

I live in the chilly northeast and though I have a basement, for a couple of reasons most work either must or is preferred to be done outside. Our basement is set up so that the amount of space available for the workshop is not great and doesn't allow for working with long lumber or sheetgoods. Even if it did, without really effective dust control (currently only a shopvac), I'd rather not be making a lot of dust in the basement.

My solution is to have equipment that will go up the basement stairs and can be set up outside. Not ideal, I know, but life is a balancing act and this is working OK for me. I recently replaced a DW744 portable saw with a Bosch 4100 (a huge improvement from many perspectives). I have a Dewalt chop saw stand that I bought a few years ago and I have bases for a DW734 planer and a chop saw. I have a PC router mounted under a Rockler compact table that can also go outside and sit on a Stanley folding table/sawhorse. The drill press, disk/belt sander and DeWalt scroll saw live in the basement full time.

Overall, it works for me...but having the basement has really made me cautious about tool choices. For example, I would have preferred to buy a DW735 planer, but the extra 15 pounds and the less back-friendly physical shape tipped me toward something with a more typical lunchbox shape. The DW744 saw was initially targeted for replacement because I couldn't safely carry it up the basement stairs any more - a problem the Bosch solved wonderfully, and fixed many other complaints or drawbacks with the DW744 to boot.

Best luck with your shop!

[Tim Marks]

I started in a walk DOWN basement as well... which meant I bought a 6" jointer (PM54A) instead of a nice grizzly 8", a DW735 instead of a 15" planer, etc. Still, the movers were not happy hauling that stuff back upstairs, even though I lightened them all by pulling off heavy cast iron tables and motors.

But I couldn't imagine hauling tools UPSTAIRS every time I wanted to work. That would mean that I would never work.

Buy a cheap HF dust collector and wynn filter, and your dust problem will be completely under control. I never had to worry about dust tracked into the house.

[Larry Rasmussen]

It seems that way some days here at the forum anyway. I am in same situation, I can use the double garage but get my wife parked back on her side (most days) at day's end. I have the Bosch 4000 having sold a larger Griz Contractor's saw to make more room. I also have the Festool circular saw with guides, up to 8 feet. I actually sold the folding base that came with the Bosch after a year or so and put it on a rolling cabinet with a side table expanded to accomodate an Accusquare fence and outfeed table. I just wasn't needing to fold the saw all the way down in to tip up mode to put it away and appreciate the expanded storage.

I decided to post because you have a similar size space and junior table saw and dedicated circular saw guiding system like I do and I was out in the garage today scratching my head about how to organize it all so I'm not dragging the dust collection hose from one machine to the other. I built a router table this year, my third. It is built around a Jessem fence system which I really like and recommend. I was thinking today though I should have built it in to the base I made for the Bosch 4000.

I purchased a 15" floor standing planer from Griz this year and put a shelix cutter head on it. Great decision. Funny thing is that the integrated three wheel base on it makes it easier to move about than the saw. I enjoy work most when I can access the tools I need without fuss. I had a Makita 12" bench top planer before the Griz which I pulled out when I needed it. I could probably have it set up with dust hose attached in 3-4 minutes. For me that time is unbearable for whatever reason. You'll know if you have that type of personality.

I read the article in Fine Woodworking (?) last year that spotlighted some of the combo tools and as easy and fast as the switchovers sounded I'm sure combo tools are not for me when the individual tools are so portable. I'm not getting a jointer regardless. There was a better than average thread here just a week or two ago that started with a question posed about whether a planer or jointer is best to start with or could you just get by with one. Collectively the posts contained a great summary of the work arounds to do a jointer's job if you don't have one in the shop.

Anyway just a few late night ramblings from someone who will be back out there tomorrow re shuffling the saw, planer and router table until I find a set up that I like enough to make semi permanent and run some ductwork to.

Best regards,
Larry R
Seattle

[Jerome Hanby]

You could haunt craig's list for a few days and find a good second hand Shopsmith and a few add-ons and fill in a lot of tool gaps with very little foot print. I'm not crazy about the Shopsmith as a table saw, but it does come in handy for those times when I would otherwise need to keep swapping blades back and forth. I spent about $1000 total (including gas to drive to Nashville and Atlanta from Birmingham) an had the Shopsmith 510, 4" jointer add-on, and 11" bandsaw add-on. This gives me a bandsaw, drill press, jointer, disc sander, and lathe in about a 6' x 2' area (plus some storage space for the accessories). Add a "lunch box" thickness planer along with your existing table saw and I think you have a a lot of capability for not a lot of floor space.