Another PM66 Question

[Heather Thompson]

I picked up a 2005 PM66 last week, no blade insert, rails or fence. I have spent the last week setting up the saw, adjusted miter slot to blade to within .001, installed my Incra TSIII and router table. I bought a Betterly PL-212 for the saw, adjusted it dead flat and clamped down a 2x4 to make the initial cut. I raised the WWII through the ZCI, it screamed though the cut, it actually wore the red anodizing off the left side of the insert and ground away some of the front allen head screw. :eek: Has anyone else had a similar experience, or am I doing something really stupid?

Heather

[Todd Burch]

What's a Betterly? A jig of some sort to ________________?

Todd

[Mike Marcade]

http://www.7corners.com/store/images/by_trucut.jpg

Don't take this the wrong way, but is it possible to put the insert in the wrong way?

[Todd Burch]

A Powermatic 66 will allow you to put the throat plate in backwards - yes.

Todd

[Bob Feeser]

Heather: I have the same saw, just a 2004 instead. Use an Incra TS-III 32 also. (Which I think is possibly more accurate then the new screw thread model, whereas Woodpecker claims the new one is accurate to 2 thou "Per foot"
Onto the insert. Obviously the wrong insert for the saw. If the allen adjuster screws have the heads facing up, it definitely is the wrong insert for the saw. Flipping it over is a possiblity, but that would put the tips on the top. That is my opinion, I am not familiar with the specific insert you have, so additional input is warranted.
The Leecraft is what I have found works best. I bought a cheapy first, and it was bent, when straightened it wound up warped again. No use rewriting the review here again. Amazon featured my review on it. Here is the link http://www.amazon.com/Leecraft-PM-1-Clearance-Insert-Powermatic/dp/B0000223VA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1196741860&sr=8-1
PS: That is not an affiliate link or anything like that, just a link to the page.
One final note is that it is not an insert insert, but rather a one insert for each blade, so I bought 3. The other 2 are still blanks waiting to be used. I use the Forrest WWII, and never seem to change it. I have an old Sears saw I use as a second saw, if I need to dado, and I rarely do that, because I have a piece of junk Craftsman never keeps a setting Radial Arm saw. I lock it in at 90 degrees and leave it there, only raising and lowering, thereby using it as a permanent kerfing station with a cheapy dado stack. Heather, Great choice for the saw
*************I just had another thought. Maybe I jumped the gun with the comment about the wrong insert. You mentioned that you spent a lot of time setting up the saw. I will try to keep this short.
My PM66 came through as most do, and that is with a top plate, the one that is welded onto the base cabinet, set askew to where it should have been placed. It was so far off, that just eyeballing it is enough to see how far off it was. As a matter of fact it was so far off that I had to remove the cast iron top, and ream out the slots so I could get a proper alignment to the mitre slot. Once done it is accurate totally. Not off by even .001. When tilting the blade to use it in the 45 degree angle position, I had to adjust the table top to enable the blade to clear the factory insert. So my final setting had to take both of those positions into account. Without the factory insert, you would have no way of knowing that. If you would like, I could take a measurement from my miter track, and tell you precisely how far the table is away from the blade. Paralellism you can check. Distance from the blade is another thing altogether. If it is off, that would explain the reason why the blade ran to the one side of the insert, running into the allen bolt of the insert. That would mean you have the proper insert, just the cast iron top has to be slid over.

Mike: I Have an inexpensive Dell Server in the house running Windows Server 03 R2. I use it as a domain controller, and a file server for the network. It's on all of the time. Great box, never a lick of a problem.

[Lee Hingle]

Heather,
I also have a Powermatic 66 (2001) with a betterly insert.

There is exactly 5 1/2" of space from the outside of the left miter slot to the blade, This puts the blade 1/8" from the allen screws.

You will have to loosen your table top and nudge it over an 1/8" or 3/16" and then re-set your miter slot to blade setting and then lock everything down.

Good luck, if you need anything else let me know. By the way, you got an awesome deal!

Good luck,
Lee

[Mike Marcade]

Mike: I Have an inexpensive Dell Server in the house running Windows Server 03 R2. I use it as a domain controller, and a file server for the network. It's on all of the time. Great box, never a lick of a problem.

Bob,

Thats good to hear. I do work in Server development. Which server do you have?

[Heather Thompson]

Thank you for all of the replies, I spent so much time to adjust the saw as accurately as possible and never thought that the blade may contact the ZCI. I went out this morning and measured from the left miter slot to blade distance (5 13/32"). :( I also inspected the WWII, four broken teeth, ouch!!!! There is someone on this site that has something to the effect of, "Experience is something that you get seconds after you needed it", how true. Well I will be spending the day taking Humpty Dumpty apart and seeing if I can nudge the top over just a bit, then putting Humpty Dumpty back together again. Guess what, I will never raise the blade through an expensive insert with an expensive blade again, without first making sure that the **** thing will clear safely. The WWII has four broken teeth, this is a costly mistake, both financially and time wise. In the end I will still have a great saw, no one will ever see the bottom of the Betterly. Thanks again for all of the imput, this site is great.

Heather

[Fred Woodward]

Heather, sorry to hear of your misfortune but hopefully I have learned from it. I'm in the process of overhauling a '83 PM66 and will need those measurements when putting my saw back together and aligning it.
Good luck with your saw.

[Bob Feeser]

Bob,

Thats good to hear. I do work in Server development. Which server do you have?

Mike,
It is a Poweredge SC430. A gig of ram, Pentium D dual core, or dual core capable, that was a couple of hundred dollar option, that became a freebie with the coupon out of the paper. It is an entry level machine. I have been building boxes out of components for about a decade. Not that I do it all of the time. I could have built a RAID unit for a competitive price, but I was new to Microsoft Windows Server 03 R2, and I feared having to deal with possible hardware issues while trying to learn the steep curve of how to install it, so I opted for a Dell machine that I knew would be hassle free. Definitely the smart way to go for server functions.
Woodworking: I gutted an old storage room, and made a server/computer room out of it. Built some 2 foot deep shelving, with only 2 layers per wall, so it acts like a mid level platform to access the machines. I used some pine planking that Dad had used in an old storage room, that I tore out to make room for the new expansion of his old woodworking shop in the basement. That is where I learned some woodworking in the first place. Then for the structural framing, I went to Lowes, and picked out some of their prime 2x4's, and smoothed them up, kerfed them out, and built a nice platform to lay the old seasoned pine on. Built to fit.
Bob

[Mike Heidrick]

The WWII has four broken teeth, this is a costly mistake, both financially and time wise. In the end I will still have a great saw, no one will ever see the bottom of the Betterly. Thanks again for all of the imput, this site is great.

Heather


Heather, you need a blade to get you through the holidays? Let me know.
I have one you can borrow until yours get replaced. BTW - I figure you can still buy 10 more WWIIs and still come in at one of the greatest PM66 prices available.

Also, did you see his moulder while you were there?


Let me know.
Mike Heidrick
BTW - I am Just down the street a couple hundred miles from you

[CPeter James]

I have A PM66 that I bought used and I replaced the arbor bearings in it. One thing I found is that you can control the blade location by moving that abor back and forth in the mount on the trunion assembly. there is a set screw that makes contact with a spacer that seperates the two bearings.

The last time I had teeht replaced (on a Ridge Carbide) on a blade, they charged me $5/tooth.

CPeter

[Heather Thompson]

CPeter,

Wish I would have known that yesterday, I ended up grinding out the table mounting holes. After I ground out the holes was able to adjust the blade properly, no deflection measured front to back with a master plate and dial indicator. My WWII is in the mail back to Forrest to be cared for, just don't like to spend money when I have been stupid. Thank you again for your input.

Heather


I have A PM66 that I bought used and I replaced the arbor bearings in it. One thing I found is that you can control the blade location by moving that abor back and forth in the mount on the trunion assembly. there is a set screw that makes contact with a spacer that seperates the two bearings.

The last time I had teeht replaced (on a Ridge Carbide) on a blade, they charged me $5/tooth.

CPeter

[M Toupin]

Heather,
Sorry to hear about your problems. If the saw didn't come with a manual I'd suggest you download it and read though it. Powermatic manuals are fairly in depth and contain a lot of useful setup info that should help you get it right.
http://power.forest.net/wmhtool/PMWood/Manuals/CurrentManuals/M-0460231-66.pdf

After more fiascos than I care to admit rebuilding and reassembling old machines, it's finally sunk in that a hour or so studying the exploded parts diagrams helps to reduce those "oh crap" moments. As much as I hate to admit it, reading the setup stuff helps out too:) Yea, I know, a man that actually reads the directions :D Don't tell anyone, I still got a manly reputation to protect:D

Might I suggest you also make your own ZCI to eliminate problems like you encountered in the future. I personally don't like ZCI of the style you have for exactly the reason you found out. You can quickly and easily make a bunch of ZCI from appropriately sized plywood or like I do, use corian scarps which are free. Use the ZCI you have as a pattern and double stick tape it to the material. Use a pattern bit in your router and you can make a bunch of them in no time. The nice part is there is little or no cost and you'll be more inclined to regularly replace them as they wear.

Mike

[Heather Thompson]

Mike,

I downloaded the manual, read it through, did not see anything about being able to adjust the arbor shaft, wish I would have


Heather,
Sorry to hear about your problems. If the saw didn't come with a manual I'd suggest you download it and read though it. Powermatic manuals are fairly in depth and contain a lot of useful setup info that should help you get it right.
http://power.forest.net/wmhtool/PMWood/Manuals/CurrentManuals/M-0460231-66.pdf

After more fiascos than I care to admit rebuilding and reassembling old machines, it's finally sunk in that a hour or so studying the exploded parts diagrams helps to reduce those "oh crap" moments. As much as I hate to admit it, reading the setup stuff helps out too:) Yea, I know, a man that actually reads the directions :D Don't tell anyone, I still got a manly reputation to protect:D

Might I suggest you also make your own ZCI to eliminate problems like you encountered in the future. I personally don't like ZCI of the style you have for exactly the reason you found out. You can quickly and easily make a bunch of ZCI from appropriately sized plywood or like I do, use corian scarps which are free. Use the ZCI you have as a pattern and double stick tape it to the material. Use a pattern bit in your router and you can make a bunch of them in no time. The nice part is there is little or no cost and you'll be more inclined to regularly replace them as they wear.

Mike

[Bob Feeser]

Heather,
I was interested in hearing about the arbor setting being adjustable. But in addition to that, I have a philosophy that applies here. The saw is engineered on paper to the max. Whether it is assembling a wrecked car, or readjusting a table saw, the best method I have found is to correct the problem where it exists, rather than make a modification outside of the standard someplace else to make up for it.
If the top plate that welds to the cabinet, that has the slots the mounting bolts to the cast iron top slide through is designed to be mounted perfectly centered on the cabinet. On mine it was not only off center, it wasn't even squared to the base. In plain words it was like they threw it on there, and welded away. It was so far off you could see it in a room with the lights off. :rolleyes: So I reamed the slots to get it right. I did have to redo it a little bit when I set up the position so it would bevel to a 45 and not touch the factory insert. So to me, it is better to get the top right if it is off, rather than adjusting the arbor. In all fairness I am totaly unfamiliar with the arbor being adjustable, and therefore am not qualified to know if it would affect the performance of the saw or not. I was told by PM to stay away form the arbor adjustments, although this may not be classified as an adjustment, or maybe it is. :confused:
Just some more food for thought. I think you reaming the slots to get the top on right is the proper move. By the way, you want to protect the reamed metal from rust, with a light coating of grease. You could fresh sand, prime and paint the area as well, but that is rough, and trying to mount the bolts through without breaking the surface on an edge is tough to determine.


Mike,

I downloaded the manual, read it through, did not see anything about being able to adjust the arbor shaft, wish I would have

[Pat Moy]

If you adjust the arbor to reposition the blade, don't forget to check belt alignment between motor pulley and arbor pulley afterwards and adjust if necessary.