need BLO info

[Jerry Ingraham]

Hi Everyone,

Last night I finish sanded a cherry bench that I constructed for LOML (it is the Nantucket Settle from the NYW). Having built a number of things of cherry and always using just tung oil finish, I thought it time to try something different but still stay with a natural oil base finish. I have seen many mentions here of BLO and thought I'd ask for input. I have done archive searches of the FWW articles and WOOD mag articles since I have a complete collection of both and I'll look at those tonite, but I really have more faith in your opinions and experiences.
Is BLO a product that you purchase ready made or do you blend and prepare your own? Does it contain varnish or do you top coat after application? I have seen recipe's for 1/3, 1/3, 1/3, homemade finishes, is this something I should consider?
The long and short of it is that I wish to take my finishing skills beyond stain and polyurethane or simply wiping on tung oil with no top coat even though both of those have served me well. TIA.

[Steven Wilson]

Boiled Linseed Oil (BLO) is a product you buy. For Cherry I like to mix BLO, Tung Oil (the real stuff - not a so called tung oil finish), and Turpentine in ratio of 1:1:2 up to 1:1:9 depending on how blotchie the cherry wants to be. If you want a Linseed oil product without a bunch of dryers added to it you should look at the Tried and True products.

[Todd Burch]

Jerry, as you probably are already aware, there are two flavors of BLO - raw and boiled. I would recommend using boiled ove raw as raw will stay gummy and tacky longer. I think BLO with paint thinner (1:1) to carry it into the wood a little faster, and have it dry out a little faster too. Multiple coats are fine, but I've gotten away with one coating and also had excellent results. Depends on much of a hurry that I am in.

I always topcoat BLO. Brushed varnish works well, poly works well, but I usually spray lacquer (again, faster application, no brush marks, faster drying).

You can buy BLO just about anywhere. You would have to have a field of flax plants and a good growng season w/harvest to make your own. Now, if you are related to Martha Stewart, perhaps this is right up your alley!!

I know that BLO will darken over time, and I'm not sure if it ever even stops darkening. In 1949, my grandfather finished the woodwork inside his home (he built) with BLO, turpentine and some burnt umber pigment. At last sight, the fir was a gorgeous dark golden brown.

Let us know how you like it - and - take pictures!

[Donnie Raines]

Steve brings up a good point(...for you mentioned you used tung oil on prior projects). Pure tung oil, in some fashion, acts like BLO.....but it takes even longer to dry....2-4 weeks and even longer in some cases. If you have been useing a Tung Oil finish...you are simply useing a thinned out wipeing varnish. And there is nothing wrong with that.

If you wish to use BLO on the cherry(..and nice choice by the way) I would apply a nice thick coat and allow to sit about a half hour. Then wipe off all the excess and allow to dry for at least a week. If you can smell the BLO...its not dry. Once cured you can top coat the cherry with a film finish of your choice. I like two finishes: When spraying I use a semi gloss lacquer and then rub it out with pumice and rotten stone for a really smoooooooth finish...and it does provided more sheen(...may not be for you though). And second I like to use Pratt and Lambert #38 brushing varnish...except I thin it out 25% to make a nice thick wipeing varnish. Pratt and Lambert is very clear....hardly any amber tone to it...and I like that look.You can by this in a satin or semi-gloss sheen.

DonnieR

[Wolf Kiessling]

First thing I want to say, what Todd said is absolutely true, never use raw linseed oil. If you're gonna use linseed oil, use the boiled(BLO).

Now, I will say right now, whenever I use an oil finish on anything, I NEVER topcoat it, except for an occasional use of wax. I should also mention that oil finishes are my favorite. I don't use straight BLO anymore, just don't like it. I started using a home brew of 1/3 BLO, 1/3 mineral spirits and 1/3 wax. That is a good finish, IMHO, but I found that prefer the danish oil, both in natural and colors. The homebrew BLO finish gives a nice satiny finish that I like but it takes quite a while to dry whereas the danish oil (I generally use the Watco or Deft brands) finish dries faster and gives me almost the same look. The added advantage is, if I want the finish to be a little shinier, danish oil will actually give you a little build up with additional coats and you can get a glossier finish if desired. Normally, if I want a really glossy oil finish right from the get go, I use Tru-Oil (gun stock finish).

If you're gonna use just a BLO finish, the definitive way to apply it is:
1. one coat daily (wipe off the next day and reapply) for a week
2. then, once a week for a month
3. then, once a month for a year
4. then, annually

To reference back to the homebrew, some folks use bees wax whereas I use Minwax finishing wax. Also, some add driers to speed up the curing process. Additionally, the proportions can be altered to meet specific needs. It's a good finish and its CHEAP.

[Donnie Raines]

First thing I want to say, what Todd said is absolutely true, never use raw linseed oil. If you're gonna use linseed oil, use the boiled(BLO).

Now, I will say right now, whenever I use an oil finish on anything, I NEVER topcoat it, except for an occasional use of wax. I should also mention that oil finishes are my favorite. I don't use straight BLO anymore, just don't like it. I started using a home brew of 1/3 BLO, 1/3 mineral spirits and 1/3 wax. That is a good finish, IMHO, but I found that prefer the danish oil, both in natural and colors. The homebrew BLO finish gives a nice satiny finish that I like but it takes quite a while to dry whereas the danish oil (I generally use the Watco or Deft brands) finish dries faster and gives me almost the same look. The added advantage is, if I want the finish to be a little shinier, danish oil will actually give you a little build up with additional coats and you can get a glossier finish if desired. Normally, if I want a really glossy oil finish right from the get go, I use Tru-Oil (gun stock finish).

If you're gonna use just a BLO finish, the definitive way to apply it is:
1. one coat daily (wipe off the next day and reapply) for a week
2. then, once a week for a month
3. then, once a month for a year
4. then, annually

To reference back to the homebrew, some folks use bees wax whereas I use Minwax finishing wax. Also, some add driers to speed up the curing process. Additionally, the proportions can be altered to meet specific needs. It's a good finish and its CHEAP.

Wolf,

With regards to the below:
If you're gonna use just a BLO finish, the definitive way to apply it is:
1. one coat daily (wipe off the next day and reapply) for a week
2. then, once a week for a month
3. then, once a month for a year
4. then, annually

I have never seen that application before. I have always read/heard that BLO if applied to quickly over a non-cured coat of BLO will almost never dry. Have you used this application and how long has it taken the subsequent coats on top of non-cured BLO to dry? Thanks in advance.

DonnieR

[Wolf Kiessling]

Wolf,

With regards to the below:
If you're gonna use just a BLO finish, the definitive way to apply it is:
1. one coat daily (wipe off the next day and reapply) for a week
2. then, once a week for a month
3. then, once a month for a year
4. then, annually

I have never seen that application before. I have always read/heard that BLO if applied to quickly over a non-cured coat of BLO will almost never dry. Have you used this application and how long has it taken the subsequent coats on top of non-cured BLO to dry? Thanks in advance.

DonnieR

Donnie, it's been so long since I have used the straight BLO finish that I really can't remember the exact technique I used. I can say, however, that I did not follow the above procedure even though I have always heard that is the procedure you are supposed to follow. I would certainly never do the once a month for a year step although I probably followed through to once a week for a month occsionally.

I don't recall ever having any problems applying a coat daily for a few days. I would apply the BLO, wipe it off after about 10 - 15 minutes, then let it sit overnight. The next day I would wipe it again with the bowl spinning on the lathe (I only did this with bowls, nothing else) and then repeat the procedure. Depending on the time of the year, and also whether I let the bowl dry in the house or in the shop, it seems to me final drying would take anywhere from about four days to a week. The frequency of applications was determined by the looks of the finish which in large part was determined by the type of wood used. It is also very likely that the heat generated by the friction of BLO being applied to the spinning bowl speeded up the drying process.

As mentioned previously, I preferred using the home brew finish of BLO, mineral spirits and wax. There again, I would follow the procedure I described above.

Regarding the non-drying of oil, I wonder if what you heard refers to raw linseed oil. I have never used that stuff but I heard that drying is very problematic.

[Jim Becker]

Wolf, I've seen that regimen for mineral oil, but not BLO. BLO is a drying oil and adding additional coats like that over time isn't really necessary and may actually cause excessive buildup in an uneven way if care is not taken. Mineral oil, on the other hand, never dries and therefore, needs reapplication to maintain it.

My use of BLO is similar to Donnie's...a liberal coat allowed to soak in for a bit, wipe off the excess and let it cure for a bit. Sometimes I go right to wax for something decorative; other times I'll top with shellac (usually garnett for the color) and then either wax or WB lacquer. I don't thin the BLO, but often heat it to about 135 degrees to let it flow better into the wood. I prefer this to thinning.

[Donnie Raines]

Indeed, I am useing Boiled Linseed Oil...not Raw. I guess one thing we are not taking into account is the humidty in our areas. I am in Cincinnati and during the summer time we are in and around 90-100% humidty....that does not help the curing process none.

Even this time of year(heated shop) it takes a good week to fully cure for me. I have tried a varity of brands, all with the same results. Good results...just long curing time.Oh well....thanks for replying back.

DonnieR

[Wolf Kiessling]

Wolf, I've seen that regimen for mineral oil, but not BLO. BLO is a drying oil and adding additional coats like that over time isn't really necessary and may actually cause excessive buildup in an uneven way if care is not taken. Mineral oil, on the other hand, never dries and therefore, needs reapplication to maintain it.

My use of BLO is similar to Donnie's...a liberal coat allowed to soak in for a bit, wipe off the excess and let it cure for a bit. Sometimes I go right to wax for something decorative; other times I'll top with shellac (usually garnett for the color) and then either wax or WB lacquer. I don't thin the BLO, but often heat it to about 135 degrees to let it flow better into the wood. I prefer this to thinning.

You could be right about that, Jim. I may have been spinning my wheels with multiple applications of BLO. I could also have misunderstood that application regimen. Like I said, I am not really all that fond of BLO, was much happier with the home brew mix, but still prefer danish oil. However, I have to say, multiple applications of the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 mix gave a better finish than a single application.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I use BLO primarily to pop the grain or when I want a close to the wood finish which I don't mind having darken over time. My first coat gets cut about 50% with mineral spirits to allow it to sink further into the wood. The second coat goes on full strength with about a half cap full of japan drier added per pint of BLO. This speeds drying quite a bit and usually I get a full cure in a day or two.

When I want a higher gloss I go with Urethane oil from Woodcraft which has quite a bit more build and usually produces a glossy and pore filling finish in 2 or 3 coats. Most often I take down the gloss to satin with 0000 steel wool and paste wax. This stuff takes 3-4 days to cure per coat.

For a non-darkening finish I go with pure tung oil from Woodcraft. The first coat gets treated like BLO and gets cut about 50% with mineral spirits while the next coats get applied full strength. Again I can increase drying speed with a very small amount of japan drier. The las t step is always a rubout with steel wool and wax.

Note that the use of japan drier is finicky. Add only a very small amount. If you add too much you will actually retard the drying. A capful or teaspoon full per pint is about the max you should add. Japan drier is available at any good paint store and has traditionally been used to speed up the drying of oil based paints.

[Jerry Ingraham]

Wolf, I've seen that regimen for mineral oil, but not BLO. BLO is a drying oil and adding additional coats like that over time isn't really necessary and may actually cause excessive buildup in an uneven way if care is not taken. Mineral oil, on the other hand, never dries and therefore, needs reapplication to maintain it.

My use of BLO is similar to Donnie's...a liberal coat allowed to soak in for a bit, wipe off the excess and let it cure for a bit. Sometimes I go right to wax for something decorative; other times I'll top with shellac (usually garnett for the color) and then either wax or WB lacquer. I don't thin the BLO, but often heat it to about 135 degrees to let it flow better into the wood. I prefer this to thinning.

Jim,
I have now put two coats of Danish oil on and am contemplating a couple of coats with an equal part mix of oil/finish/thinner. What I'm unsure of is which finishes can i use? I'd like to use shellac, and if I do, what thinning agent should I use? Or should I just topcoat now with shellac and not bother with the mixed coats?
I apologize if I'm sounding dense as to this issue, but you guys have all apparently had a lot of experience with these procedures and it comes quickly to you. I, on the other hand am afraid to do something that will jeopardize my finish.

Thanks, Jerry

[Dennis Peacock]

Jim,
I have now put two coats of Danish oil on and am contemplating a couple of coats with an equal part mix of oil/finish/thinner. What I'm unsure of is which finishes can i use? I'd like to use shellac, and if I do, what thinning agent should I use?
Thanks, Jerry

Jerry,

Shellac is thinned with Denatured Alcohol and not mineral spirits. You can safely mix LIKE finishes (oils for example) and experiement with that. I'm just not so sure I would mix shellac with a homebrew that contains oils. I could be off here....somebody correct me where I am wrong.

[Jerry Ingraham]

Jerry,

Shellac is thinned with Denatured Alcohol and not mineral spirits. You can safely mix LIKE finishes (oils for example) and experiement with that. I'm just not so sure I would mix shellac with a homebrew that contains oils. I could be off here....somebody correct me where I am wrong.
This is precisely why I'm posting these, ah, naive questions!

So, I wouldn't want to use shellac in a mixture with oil but I would be ok to topcoat my oil finish with it? Thanks for your patience and help.

Jerry

[Larry Harman]

Jerry--you may want to go to a web site managed by a guy named Steve Mickley--here is the site---

http://www.johnjacobmickley.net/Shop%20Pages/Shellac%20Intro.htm

Or , maybe just the main site www.johnjacobmickley.net and follow the links to finishing techniques.
I have followed his advice and am very satisfied. No disrespect intended to anyone, but I think he may be the "authority" on the subject. He is, or was, the site host for "Finishing and Refinishing" on the WOOD MAGAZINE web site which is "www.woodmagazine.com".. Go to the Wood forums and look under "Finishing and refinishing"

He owns a shop in Ohio, has written extensively on the subject, and even tho' he comes across a little heavy-handed at times, I think he knows his business. I found his articles on the difference between Tung Oil and Tung Oil Finish and his preferences for Shellac, and the "how" and "why" to cut your own shellac really enlightening.

Also, a book by Bob (?) Flexner is "Understanding Wood Finishes" is very good.
Hope I didn't violate some protocol by referring outside this site, but his info will most likely be helpful, and that's kind of what we are all trying to do. Larry Harman

[Wolf Kiessling]

This is precisely why I'm posting these, ah, naive questions!

So, I wouldn't want to use shellac in a mixture with oil but I would be ok to topcoat my oil finish with it? Thanks for your patience and help.

Jerry

This is true, you don't want to mix shellac together with oil but it is the one finish (other than wax) that is supposed to be compatible with anything so using it as a top coat over oil is fine.

One other thing I want to point out, regarding your earlier post, you don't want to make any kind of "home brew" using danish oil. Danish oil is not a true oil, it is a proprietary mix using oil, varnish, driers, etc. Basically, when you make a home brew using oil, mineral spirits and wax, you are making something along the lines of danish oil.