Recommendation on Chisels

[Keith Starosta]

I'm hoping to purchase a good set of bench chisels. I really can't spend a ton of money on these, but I really don't want anything "cheap", that won't hold an edge. Can any of you Neanders make a recommendation on brand and the best place to buy them? Thanks!!

Keith

[Mark Singer]

Keith,
Lee Valley has the Hirsch at a good price...fine German steel same as Two Cherries.
Ashley Iles are good too...The Best Things has them

[Ed Falis]

Keith,
Lee Valley has the Hirsch at a good price...fine German steel same as Two Cherries.
Ashley Iles are good too...The Best Things has them

Keith,

I got the Hirch's for Christmas. Very nice, reasonable price. They work great!

- Ed

[Marc Hills]

Hi Keith

I agree with Mark and Ed; the Hirsch chisels have an excellent reputation and are more affordable than Two Cherries.

Everything is relative I guess, so if the Hirsch chisels are still too rich for your blood, then I've heard good things about the Marples Blue Chip chisels. Woodworkersupply has them for $32.95 for the 4 piece set, $59.95 for a boxed 6 piece set, and $72.90 for the eight piece set.

If you accept what the Lee Valley catalog copy says about their house brand bench chisels, they are an even better value than the Marples. In the case of both the LV and the Marples however, you forgo the traditional wood handle.

[Terry Beadle]

Whoa! Hirsh are great but I think you asked for cheap but good.

I bought some Cheozovokian (sp?) $5 chisels that have a bit of extra cromimum in the steel. They are slightly thinner than most bench chisels but really do a good job AND keep an edge. They have a set of 5 at Highland Hardware for under $30 but try a 12mm one for $5 before you jump in the Hirsh thing. By the way I do have some Hirsh and they are really the best chishel (except for those Japanease ones for $265 each ) but Highland charges about $25 a pop for them.

If you want a bit more steel in terms of thicknes, the Marples chisel set is a very good buy and very good steel from Sheffield England.

Regards,

Terry

[Ed Falis]

Whoa! Hirsh are great but I think you asked for cheap but good.


Yabbut ...

Lee Valley sells a half-dozen Hirsch firmers for something under $90, if I remember right. That's really not that outrageous - certainly nothing like the $25 a chisel you're talking about.

- Ed

[Richard Gillespie]

I have several sets of the blue Marples. Two of the four chisel sets cost $19.99 ea. at Lowe's. One of those sets has metal strike plates on the ends which come in handy when doing hand cut dovetails. I've got the 6 bit set in a wooden box I bought several years ago and they go to job sites with me.

I have other antique chisels and I feel that the Marples compare well with those. I've never owned any of the "better" chisels so I can't compare edge retention to them. I'm happy with the Marples and on my tool budget that's a good thing.

[Lloyd Robins]

Just to throw in a couple of other ideas. According to Popular Woodworking the $30.00 set from Woodworker's Supply has excellent steel. The handles need to be worked on though. A less expensive Japanese chisel is the Iyoroi chisel which is considered passable. Iyoroi run about $160 for a set of 6 at toolsforworkingwood.com.

[Marc Hills]

According to Popular Woodworking the $30.00 set from Woodworker's Supply has excellent steel.

Hi Lloyd:

I got wind of that recommendation a couple of months ago, but by then WWS was clearancing out the remainder of their stock. As of yesterday, I think they only had three individual sizes left: 6, 12 and 22mm. Which isn't to say that they aren't still good chisels. But if you care about having a matched set then well ... back to other alternatives.

And perhaps we should seek clarification here from Keith on what he has for a price range. $160 for a set of six Iyoroi chisels to me qualifies as "a ton of money", to use Keith's phrase.

[Lloyd Robins]

Hi Lloyd:

I got wind of that recommendation a couple of months ago, but by then WWS was clearancing out the remainder of their stock. As of yesterday, I think they only had three individual sizes left: 6, 12 and 22mm. Which isn't to say that they aren't still good chisels. But if you care about having a matched set then well ... back to other alternatives.

And perhaps we should seek clarification here from Keith on what he has for a price range. $160 for a set of six Iyoroi chisels to me qualifies as "a ton of money", to use Keith's phrase.


Marc, I agree about the cost of Japanese chisels, but the Iyoroi are a lower cost Japanese chisel. I guess that lower cost is subjective. I do however really, really like my Japanese chisels. (Not Iyoroi) Sorry about the WWS chisels.

[Donnie Raines]

I am a big fa of Pfeil chisels, along with some of the Japansese products. A set of 6 Pfeil's will set you back around 120 bucks(..if I recall correctly). They are Swiss made. The Japansese chisels are in and around 25-40 bucks each and they do hold an edge longer then some of the others I have seen(..two cherries, Pfeil, marples etc..)

DonnieR

[James Carmichael]

Hi Lloyd:

I got wind of that recommendation a couple of months ago, but by then WWS was clearancing out the remainder of their stock. As of yesterday, I think they only had three individual sizes left: 6, 12 and 22mm. Which isn't to say that they aren't still good chisels. But if you care about having a matched set then well ... back to other alternatives.

And perhaps we should seek clarification here from Keith on what he has for a price range. $160 for a set of six Iyoroi chisels to me qualifies as "a ton of money", to use Keith's phrase.

Lloyd,

I've been looking at the Marples blue-chip chisels lateley, too. Amazon has the 4-piece set for $25, M444. Also looking hard at the Freud marking gauge out there.

Are the Marples "split-proof" chisels worth the premium over the blue-chip?

James

[Tom Scott]

Here is my $0.02 worth...

I used Marples chisels for more than 10 years before I got a set of 2-Cherries. My Marples (which now never see the light of day) were a special edition "Gold Chip" which were esentially the same chisel as their Blue Chip, but with a rosewood handle. These are not bad chisels. The steel is softer and do not hold an edge as well as the more expensive models, but they are not that bad. Look on the bright side, you will get lots of practice at sharpening. Blue Chips are also the chisels that were used when I attended a week-long hand tool course at Homestead Heritage a few years ago. Overall, I think they are a decent starter set, especially for someone who is not so hand-tool inclined and will only use on an occasional basis. In regard to the splitproof set, I can't see where these have much of an advantage assuming the only difference is the handle. The regular Blue Chip handles are practically indestructible. Looking at the picture on Amazon, though, these look like a firmer chisel with square sides eventhough the desciption calls them a bevel chisel.

On the other hand, if a person has more of a leaning to hand tools and knows that is the direction they want to go, then I might suggest an alternate approach - acquire a few higher quality chisels as you can afford them. For instance, maybe pick up a nice 1/4" and 1/2" of the chosen brand now, and fill in with other sizes as the funds are available.

Good luck, and enjoy whatever you get.

Tom

[Michael Perata]

but I really don't want anything "cheap", that won't hold an edge. Keith

I was over at the Japanwoodworker this afternoon and saw a "not cheap" set of 10 Japanese chisels for $2,300 (box included). ;)

I started to collect moderately priced Japanese chisels a year ago. While they take a great edge, they chip very easily. In fact, I bought a 3/4" chisel that chipped the first time I put a blow to it.

I have changed to the Sorby Gilt Edge chisels ((5) 1/4 - 1" for $125) and I am very pleased with them. Easy to get a hair cutting edge (Norton 8000 waterstone in about 15 minutes) and they stand up to use very well.

I particularly like their mortise chisels.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Good Japanese chisels are typically hardened too much, intentionally, so when you first get them it's a good idea to temper the temper, let them sit on a hot tin roof for a couple of days.

Pam

[Roger Bell]

Good Japanese chisels are typically hardened too much, intentionally, so when you first get them it's a good idea to temper the temper, let them sit on a hot tin roof for a couple of days.

Pam

Pam, would you elaborate a bit...

What is the reason for the chisel being overhardened intentionally rather than tempered "just right". Would you also speak more about "tempering the temper".... Thanks.

[John Meikrantz]

Does anyone use the Lee Valley house brand chisels? I'm curious to see how they perform. I've been looking at mid/low price range chisels, to find a good price/performace ratio. May eventually break down and but Hirsch or Two Cherries, but I'd still like to hear some feedback on some other brands.

Specifically, any comments on Lee Valley house brand, Garrett Wade house brand, Narex, which seem to be a Garrett Wade OEM version, or Diefenbacher?

John

[Mark Singer]

Meikj,
The Lee Valley are a Japenese brand re labled...I have a couple and keep them in my toolbox for rough jobsite work...the handles are plastic and feel terrible...the Diefen bacher are made by Buck I think. The feel of the handle is important...I think the best advice is to buy a few good ones and then get more as you can afford it...cheap ones are like throwing your money out ...Ashley Iles, Two Cherries or Hirsch are nice

[James Carmichael]

I'm hoping to purchase a good set of bench chisels. I really can't spend a ton of money on these, but I really don't want anything "cheap", that won't hold an edge. Can any of you Neanders make a recommendation on brand and the best place to buy them? Thanks!!

Keith


Keith,

Richard was correct, the 4-piece Marples blue-chip set is 19.94 at Lowes. I "happened" to visit Lowes Sat and somehow a set ended up in my basket. I suspect this is a closeout price, as the model # is M444, which is not current, and the package still says "Record" and not Irwin, plus these were the only Marples chisels they had.

Home Depot sells current line of Marples blue-chip under the Irwin name for around $30 for the 4-piece, but might be persuaded to match the Lowes price (you can find it on Lowes website.) They also sell the individual chisels for around $10-$12 if you need different sizes. The HD version looked like it might have the steel striker, too.

Ah, I'm gaining speed down the slipperly slope, our mailroom just handed me a weighty package containing a rusty Stanley 5c I bought off of Ebay....

[Fred Krow]

Pam, would you elaborate a bit...

What is the reason for the chisel being overhardened intentionally rather than tempered "just right". Would you also speak more about "tempering the temper".... Thanks.

I am not Pam however, here is my opinion on the hardness of the Japanese chisels. The woodworkers in Japan use soft wood almost exclusively,,,,the very hard brittle steel is fine for their purposes. When we use them on harder woods, typical maple etc. they are too brittle in many cases. The only answer is to change the bevel angle or use a relatively large "secondary bevel" to reinforce the edge for more strength.

The concept of lowering the hardness with increased temperature is fine however, the steel will require about 350 degrees F for the temper to be affected. We also hear about pounding the new chisel into wood several time,,,,this actually work hardens steel and will make the edge more brittle. Raise the temperature with the pounding into wood,,,,well the temperature would not reach even close to temper requirements.

I do not know of anyone who has cryo tempered the Japanese blades with -300F type process,,,,this may be very beneficial to the blades for toughness?

I do have about 12-15 laminated Japanese chisels and like them very much for softer woods. They are used mainly for paring by hand,,,no mallets used,,,,the edges are easy to sharpen and with care will last a very long time.

Regards,
Fred Krow

[David Rose]

I'm really not a neader, but I do love and appreciate hand tools. I have a couple of decent planes, some scrapers, and a set of Marples Blue-Chip chisels. I do most shaping with power but constantly grab a plane or chisel for some little truing or refining.

I think there must be better chisels than the Marples. I have a set of 60 plus year old Lutz File and Tool Co chisels and a couple of old Stanleys that I have used in our gun shop for 30 years and they never roll the edge. I guess that is what you would call what I find on my Marples all the time. I wish I could take a better close up pic, but... I've never had them chip and I have never pounded them or pried with them (not even paint can lids :rolleyes:). But the edge of the Marples cut very little before the extreme edge forms a wavy surface with metal flowing up and down. I sharpen them scarey sharp with a 25 degree main bevel and about 2 more degrees of micro bevel. I tried 30 degrees last time on the 1" with a micro bevel. I really can't tell it helped. The edge rolled (still questioning the term) right away. Oh, yes, and I am not leaving any burr in case someone might think that is what is rolling.

If some folks have used the Marples and recommend another over them, I would listen. I prefer to buy any tool once and wear it out rather than "upgrade".

David

[Pam Niedermayer]

Pam, would you elaborate a bit...

What is the reason for the chisel being overhardened intentionally rather than tempered "just right". Would you also speak more about "tempering the temper".... Thanks.

I'm no blacksmith, but here's my best guess added to Fred's hypothesis. I think the smiths who do over harden a bit do it so the hardening will be just right after a few work-sharpening cycles, during which the chisels do gain heat, even is just a bit. I wouldn't think all Japanese chisels are treated this way, which may account for Fred's and my different experiences. I have no problems with using them in hard woods as well as in soft, but don't really have any chipping problems with western chisels either. I almost never sharpen a secondary bevel, never sharpen a back bevel, on either chisels or plane irons.

Pam