Raised Panel bit sets

[Mark Hultzapple]

Hi All,
I'm thinking of purchasing a router bit set for raised panels. I don't plan of doing production work so frequency of use will be minimal. I'm leaning towards the Freud brand. I have a Bosch 2 1/4 HP w/ 1/2 in. collet. My question is what all should I consider before purchasing? A few questions I currently have are...which is better, the vert. or horiz panel bit? Is my router hefty enough to run either? Is there any concerns or quality of cut issues running panels vertically using the vertical panel bit? Also is there an edge bit for tapering door edges? Thanks for any input or suggestions you may have.

[Charles McCracken]

Mark,

Horizontal RP bits are more versatile because they can make arched panels and are easier to use for large panels (assuming your router table is large enough to support it properly). The vertical bits do require less power to operate but you will need a tall, strong fence to support the panels. The user's manual for the router will tell you if you can run the large diameter bits. The Freud FT1700VCE 2-1/4HP router will run 3-1/2" bits but requires at least 3 passes. Is this what you have in mind for door edges?:

http://www.freudtools.com/images/PRODUCT/large/210.jpg

[David Weaver]

Charles - do you have any opinion on what it does to bit life to cut panels where several passes are required? I've seen a lot of opinions about it being harder or easier on a bit, where the proponents are obviously those who use each method - maybe hoping that their method is really the one that makes the bit last the longest.

I guess the three techniques that I've seen as the most popular are:
1) hogging it all off in one pass
2) hogging off 95% in one pass and making a second light "finishing" path
3) Making numerous light passes until you get to the cutting depth you want

It seems to me that a bit would last longest for 1 or 2 - likely 1 as the first pass would impart the same wear on #1 or #2. I'd be curious regarding the wear on #2 vs #3. I don't actually know anyone who does #1 as a hobbyist for fear of tearout, etc.

[Jim Becker]

David, even with my PC7518, I make at least three or four passes to do panels.

Mark, I really like the Freud 2+2 design horizontal cutters...clean and efficient. With your mid-size router, you'll absolutely need to make multiple passes with the last one shaving just a hair off as the final finishing cut. As I mentioned to David, I do that even with the heavier router for best results.

[Charles McCracken]

David,

No question that (assuming the same bit speed and feed rate) each pass wears the carbide the same amount so the part of the bit that is used most will dull first. The one pass method is the best in theory but you should never exceed the safe abilities of the router, set up or user. If you have a router and table set up that will handle cutting in one pass (the Freud FT2000E, FT2200E and FT3000VCE can all do this), have all of the necessary guards and fixtures, are comfortable with the operation and maintain proper bit speed and feed rate you will achieve the longest bit life. If you do all of the above but feed too slowly you may get better life with two or more passes. The one hogging cut and one clean up cut would be the same amount of wear as two passes that each remove half. Pat Warner has an interesting suggestion that you should use older bits for the first pass(es) and a new (or really sharp) bit for the last pass (at least I think that is the way he worded it).

[frank shic]

one pass on a router?!? i love it! i'll try that next time, charles. thanks for the advice. BTW last week was the first experience i had with the 2+2 cutter and i must tell you that i was extremely impressed that i was getting fluffy shavings like you would with a hand plane instead of just dust.

[Anthony Anderson]

I have several of the Freud Horizontal RP bits, as well as one of their Vertical RP bits (actually this was my first RP bit). The Horizontal 2+2 RP bits cut very smooth and no cleanup required when they are sharp. I used the vertical RP bit on one project and I did not like using it. You have to take MANY passes and it scarily feels that the bit is going to pull the piece, and your hand, into the bit. I swore that I will never use that bit again. If you choose the vertical bit, make sure, as Charles suggested, to have a very tall, solid fence, and make sure that you buy a stackable featherboard to keep constant vertical pressure on panel as it passes through the cutter and to keep your hands away from the bit. Good Luck. Bill

[Thom Sturgill]

I can speak only from what I've seen and not what I've done (yet!).

I think you also want to consider removing as much waste as possible at the TS before going to the router. I know I've seen Norm do this both for the router and the lathe and it makes sense that it might save one of those router passes if you can do it safely.

[frank shic]

make sure you have either a tall accessory fence mounted to your tablesaw fence or build a raised panel jig to steady to panel. i tried freehanding with a dewalt 735 portable table saw prior to raising the panel on the router table and had disastrous results on two panels forcing me to recut and reglue them them.

[Greg Pavlov]

Sorry, but this question came up yesterday (for me), and I was going to ask it on SC: is there any quality difference betw Freud and Freud Avanti bits?

[David Weaver]

David,

No question that (assuming the same bit speed and feed rate) each pass wears the carbide the same amount so the part of the bit that is used most will dull first. The one pass method is the best in theory but you should never exceed the safe abilities of the router, set up or user. If you have a router and table set up that will handle cutting in one pass (the Freud FT2000E, FT2200E and FT3000VCE can all do this), have all of the necessary guards and fixtures, are comfortable with the operation and maintain proper bit speed and feed rate you will achieve the longest bit life. If you do all of the above but feed too slowly you may get better life with two or more passes. The one hogging cut and one clean up cut would be the same amount of wear as two passes that each remove half. Pat Warner has an interesting suggestion that you should use older bits for the first pass(es) and a new (or really sharp) bit for the last pass (at least I think that is the way he worded it).

Charles - thanks for the quick response. I've never attempted the hogging cut because of the feed rate issue. For a low-level hobbyist like me, it's easier to make multiple light passes (with a PC7518), especially given the rpm limitations of the horizontal panel raisers. I might be tempted to do it in one shot with a vertical panel raiser, but I'd feel somewhat less comfortable about feeding it just because I'm not used to it.

I haven't raised any panels yet, but I did have a design element in my last piece that required a 2-inch diameter cove bit. Even at that, I sort of did what Pat says to do by cutting a triangle of waste off on a table saw. Even after that, I must've made 6 passes with the router, but I didn't push the router, so I'm not sure what it's capable of.

[David Weaver]

David, even with my PC7518, I make at least three or four passes to do panels.

Mark, I really like the Freud 2+2 design horizontal cutters...clean and efficient. With your mid-size router, you'll absolutely need to make multiple passes with the last one shaving just a hair off as the final finishing cut. As I mentioned to David, I do that even with the heavier router for best results.

Jim - that's the same table router I have (and half the world seems to, too). I should revise my post below - I have actually never turned on my router since getting it mounted in the table. I used a buddy's 7518 to do a cut with a 2-inch diameter cove (or maybe I should call it core box) bit. I was happy with the results, but I think if I was going to attempt to redo molding or cabinetry in my house at any significant level, I would probably buy a used shaper and then sell it when I was done with it.

[Mark Hultzapple]

I want to thank everyone for their advice and opinions on raised panel sets. Charles brought up a good point I hadn't thought about and that's the ability to do Arch panels. I know I want to do that in the future so I'm gonna go with the horizontal set and make the extra passes. Thanks again!