raised panel finishing question?

[keith ouellette]

I am making my first raised panel door. I want to stain the panel before I put it in the frame but should the clear coat go on the panel before I put it in the frame or should I put it together first and then spray the clear coat?

[Bob Feeser]

I'm going to break out the popcorn and keep an eye on this thread. Thinking about the problem. For the raised panel to fit snugly into the frame, any thickness on the finish is going to create problems. If you finish the center panel to completion, you have the problem of not being able to mask the center panel off, while you finish the frame, at least without getting an edge.
If you stain, then you have to do that step first on the panel before assembly. I use clear fnishes or paint for panels thus far, and not had to stain them. So although I put a clear protectorant on the panel before assembling, to counter any shrinkage problems showing an edge, I more or less assemble it, and refinish afterwards, and don't worry about it. If you are oil finishing something, that just about solves all of the problems of film thickness, thereby creating an edge on a shrinking center panel.

Your question is a good one. I definitely will break out the popcorn, and see that the pros at SMC have to say about their approach. As far as your question, I would stain the center panel and put a single thin coat of finish on it if you are using a urethane. Let it dry real well, like overnight. Then do your assembly. After gluing up and sanding the frame seams, go ahead and stain the frame, trying to keep the stain off of the center panel, but keep some paper towels handy, if some gets on the center panel, the urethane should create a protective shield, so you can wipe it off, without any penetration. Then once the staining is finished. The next day, I would lightly go over the center panel with an ultra fine scotch brite pad, and not touch the outside frame, then spray a couple of top coats on the whole thing. If you are going to a nicer finish, then an overnight cure, and lite sand with steel wool, or scotch brite, then a spray coat, or two to top it off, after degreasing, and tack rag to get every bit of dust off.

Others may just assemble, sand, break out the stain, and make sure you get it wet on the outside where the panel meets the frame, with the intention of getting some to run past the seam, permeating the wood sufficiently, so that if there is any shrinkage, the stain will still cover, then top coat as usual. Sure saves a lot of time. I have a tendency to do stuff the long way.

[John Viercinski]

I'll be watching this one as well as I've haven't done this yet. I'm concerned about a flat panel insert with a painted finish. Do you assemble and then spray the whole door? What about the edge where the panel meets the rails and stiles? Will paint build up and then crack during changing seasons/temps? Should I spray one coat on the panel and then assemble and finish?

Enquiring minds want to know...

[Greg Heppeard]

There are several ways to do this correctly. You can assemble and sand the door then stain and finish (most professional shops do it this way), you can stain just the outer edge of the panel then assemble, etc. You can stain the whole panel before assembly. I've done all 3 and have settled on the first in my shop.

I've never seen anyone put the final finish on the panel before the door is assembled.

[Phil Phelps]

If you are going to stain the cabinets, some stain the panel first and then assemble. Reason being, they want to be sure a raw edge won't show up later. I think when you stain the door after assembly, the stain will seep beyond the edge of the style and rail. At least that's the way I've done it, successfully, for many years. If you're painting the panel door, you should glue up the whole door, caulk the edge of the panel and wipe clean. Painting a panel door takes more time than building the @!%# thing.

[James Biddle]

Depends on the shaper (or router) cutters used on the rails and stiles. Some of them break the edge of the wood where the panel enters the slot. These wick the stain/finish into the recesses of the panel. Using these cutters allow you to stain/finish after assembly. I think most production doors use these type of cutters to avoid the additional step of staining the panel before assembly.

Other cutters leave that edge sharp and applying stain to the panel is recommended before assembly.

I usually don't apply any final coat to the panel before assembly regardless of the cutters because of my fear of making the panel too thick and because I think there's too many chances to mess up the finish during assembly and sanding of the frame.

[Bob Oehler]

When I make a raised pannel I stain the entire panel and finish before hand. Most of the finishes that I do are natural oils BLO, Thinned toung oil finishes (in know they are wiping varnishes) and the like. These finishes do not bulid up a large amount and then when I am finished I wax the enitre assembly if I am using oils. I would guess that a built up finish would pose it's own problems with assembly and fits of the pannels and would need to be taken into consideration.

Hope this helps
Bob O.

[frank shic]

use a blow gun on your air compressor to blow the stain into the crevice between the raised panel door and the stiles/rails.

[keith ouellette]

[QUOTE=James Biddle;

I usually don't apply any final coat to the panel before assembly regardless of the cutters because of my fear of making the panel too thick and because I think there's too many chances to mess up the finish during assembly and sanding of the frame.[/QUOTE]

If the panel is stained first and then is assembled in the frame and sprayed with a clear coat... if the panel slips does the edge of the clear coat show or does some end up under the frame?

[Lee Schierer]

I've made a number of raised panels and generally if the wood is stained or painted, I apply the finish to the sloped areas of the panel and the back side of those same areas prior to assembly. This gets the "color" on the areas that don't show now, but will show when the panel shrinks in mid winter from the dry air in the house. I've also applied finish to the inside edges of the rails and stiles prior to assembly for the same reason. I've seen ridges left by the finish when some panels have shrunk, so I would not be adverse to finishing the panel complete prior to assembly to eliminate this problem. If you completely finish the raised panel before assembly you would need to be careful applying the finish and stain to the inside edges of the rails and stiles that are adjacent to the raised panel surfaces.

[Ed Peters]

must be tempered with regard to the time of year. When it is cold with low humidity and the wood is at 8% or less relative moisture content, assemble complete then sand stain and seal. The panel is already in it's narrowest configuration. When the temperature rises and the humidity returns, stain the first ½" or so around the perimeter of the panel. Then assemble, sand stain and seal.

Ed

[Bob Feeser]

This is an interesting post, and the input is great. When I mentioned that if staining is going to be done, then prestain the whole panel, then put a single, or let's say a very thin coat of finish on it, especially something like a urethane, if that is what you are finishing it with, as opposed to a lacquer which has a sensitivity to solvents, (something to consider when staining the rails and stiles, right up to the panel, thereby getting some on the panel. Lacquer could melt, making a mess, urethane cured well enough, would be less apt to do that) then do your assembly work. Note: presand the edges of the stiles and rails, all the way to final fine grit before assembly, thereby eliminating the need to sand up to the edge of the panel, so you don't take a chance on breaking through the stain.

My concern of partial staning just along the edge before assembling, then staining the whole piece is that the edge could get a double staining on the first application along the edge, and only a single in the middle. I guess you could try to sand off the stained area that is exposed, but I think you would need to take off too much material, to get an unstained surface.
So I suggested, the staining of the panel first, thin coat of impervious urethane, if that is what you are using, then assemble, with fine sanded stiles and rails, then all you need to do is sand the glue seams. (Don't ask me about the glue seam in the very corner:eek:) Stain the outside rails and stiles, wiping off any stain that got on the urethaned surface.

After the staining dries, as in next day, urethane the entire piece. So the center panel would have just a thin coat of urethane, more than the rails and stiles, which shouldn't have much of an effect, and if any at all, it may add a pleasing gentle hint of a deeper panel area.

To tell you the truth, I just assemble, before doing any refinishing, other than edge sanding the stiles and rails toward the center, and don't usually stain my projects, I like to select the color of the wood that I like instead, and then go ahead and do my "clear" finishing, and don't worry about the edge possibly showing in the future. I purposely wet the edge real well to make it creep. If worse came to worse and a little edge showed due to shrinkage, since you are dealing with a clear finish, you could add some oil to the seam, and probably get a match.
Does it sound like I am rambling, you bethca! :)

[keith ouellette]

thank you for all the input. I like Bob's idea of the thin coat of clear finish on the panel. It will solve the problem of possibly seeing a ridge and if I keep it thin it won't effect the fit. This is what I consider my first important project since its the first one going in my house. ope to show some pics if I can finish the project correctly and figure out how to post pictures.

[Jim Becker]

So many choices... ;) I've done both pre- and post-finishing. Prefer the latter at this point.

One thing, however, pre-sand the panel as well as the inside edges of the rails and stile prior to assembly. Trying to get into those small places after it's together often leads to unfortunately scratching, etc. Pre-sanding eliminates that risk.

[fRED mCnEILL]

I just came in from the shop having assembled a couple of raised panels doors. If staining,my process is to sand and stain the panels and the inside of the rails and stiles.
I then glue up the door. Then I sand and stain the rails and stiles taking care NOT to sand the raised portion of the panel.. If adding a clear topcoat I then spray with 2 coats of laquer. Seems to work fine.

Fred Mc.