Bench Dog Prolift vs Freud Plunge Router

[John Karam]

Good evening/morning

I have been looking into router table set ups and am trying to determine which route to go. Id appreciate your thoughts on this...

One approach is the Bench Dog Prolift (http://www.benchdog.com/prolift.htm), in which I would be using my Porter-Cable 694 or 690 (the Amazon deal) routers. Both are 1 3/4 HP. I would have to buy a $20 adapter to make that work since they are the smaller motors.

The other approach is the FT3000VCE 3-1/4 HP Variable Speed Plunge Router (http://www.freudtools.com/p-261-ft3000vce-3-14-hp-variable-speed-plunge-router.aspx) or possibly another comparable plunge router. Since this has above table bit change and height adjustment, it seems the wiser of choices. I can't think of any concrete advantages of the lift approach other then it could potentially be more stable and therefore produce cleaner cuts (any merit to that thought?).

When considering cost, it seems I'd get more with the Freud approach...

Any opinions on this? Again, I really appreciate your thoughts :)

[Thomas Knighton]

The only thought I have is that the Freud can be had for $130 at Woodcraft currently, which is only a bit higher than the PC 690, but with a lot more horsepower. Granted, I'm wondering how hard to handle that Freud would be hand held though.

Tom

[Paul Greathouse]

This should prove to be an interesting thread if someone who has had experience with both the benchdog and the freud plunge can comment on both options.

Most of us that have the benchdog lift use a PC7518 in it. I have that combination and am very happy with it. The Benchdog lift is very solid and smooth. It also has the ability for intricate depth setting. The PC7518 has been around forever, and it should be as powerful as any other 15amp router available.

If you plan to use larger bits, you can get by with the smaller PC routers but you would be much happier with a 15 amp router. Even with the PC7518, I have to make several passes with a 3" panel raising bit.

I have never used a plunge router in a table but the Freud seems to be a good choice if you go that route. I have two of the Freud 1700's (13amp) that I plan to incorporate into a double router table for matched set bits. I haven't used them much yet but they appear to be of good quality and are smooth running.

Let us know what you end up with and how it works out for you.

[John Karam]

I have only use porter cable routers and I've used the bench dog lift with the 3 1/4 PC in it. Haven't worked any other combination. Worked well and my intentions originally were to upgrade my router when I had the chance. But I figured the Freud route would get me there all the quicker and at less cost.

Thomas, that is the previous Freud model from what I understand. Sadly the newer one is around $290. I would jump on it for $130 and give it a shot.

[David Beeler]

I used the ROUTER RAIZER KIT, RZ100 with the Frued FT2200E on my router table. I got both from Hartville tool, the router is $125 and the RZ100 is 74.96. Free shipping on orders over $75 so you would have to add something over 4 cents to get free shipping on the RZ100 by itself. I haven't used it very much but am pleased with the setup so far. The collet does not get above the table but is close enough that I can reach under to engage the locking device and change bits with the straignt wrench supplied with the router.

[Paul Joynes]

I too have the Bench Dog ProLift married to a PC 7518 and can attest that it is a bullet proof solution. I particularly like the way the PC EVS system is able to adjust its output speed on the fly to ensure that the bit does not slow down during the cut. The 7518 is a production grade machine and worth the money in my opinion (it is the standard on entry level Shopbots).

The ProLift is able to accept HUGE diameter bits. If you will be doing raised panel doors, this will definitely be of interest to you.

Whatever you choose, plan to leave the router in the table and buy a second for handheld use. The lower HP ones excel in this area since they are not so top heavy.

Regards,

Paul Joynes

[scott spencer]

I haven't used the FT3000, but have an FT1700 (http://www.epinions.com/review/Freud_2_1_4_HP_Variable_Speed_Fixed_Base_Router_FT 1700VCEK/content_228357738116) in my table, that replaced an FT2000e. I see no need for a lift with the 1700. I can change height easily from above the table, and fairly easily even from below it. The threads on the adjustment aren't incredibly precise but it's not difficult to dial it in where you want it. Even though the 2000 had more power than the 1700, the additional features offset the power loss for my needs. The FT3000 has alot more power than the PC690, and has a larger throat opening and more above table features than the FT2200 (http://www.epinions.com/review/Freud_3_1_4_HP_Electronic_Variable_Speed_Plunge_Ro uter_FT2000EP/content_144873000580). Assuming it's above table features work as well as the 1700's, I'd definitely go for the 3000.

[Art Mann]

I recommend you go with more horsepower. I had a Hitachi M12V (15 amps) in my router table but replaced it with a Freud FT1700 (11 amps) because of the above table bit change and height adjustment features. Eventually, I went back to the Hitachi because of the higher power. I think 1 3/4 hp is pretty wimpy for a router dedicated to table use.

[John Karam]

Thanks for the thoughts Everyone. I think I am leaning towards the Freud now. As long as I'm not sacrificing quality (A real accuracy nut here) by going that route, I'd be happy. It even sounds a little faster to deal with...I remember on the bench dog having to crank it all the way up to change bits...which I always disliked. With the Freud I could technically just push up the plunge, bypassing the crank (I think).

Just trying to be clear, for those that have the Bench dog/7518 combo. If presented with the FT3000 option before buying the bench dog, would you have considered that route instead? I'm willing to go the bench dog route and upgrade my router in the years to come if that will ultimately get me the better set up.

Thanks again

[Paul Greathouse]

John

Its probably not fair for me to answer to your second paragraph because I have never used a plunge router under the table before but I'll do it anyway. I would still choose the bench dog and 7518. I bought mine a few years back when money was a little harder to come by than it is now. The roughly $600 combo was hard to justify at the time but I could see the quality in both the lift and router. Thats what decided it for me.

I'm real anal about height settings, thats one reason that I like the benchdog so much. I could be wrong, but I just don't see a plunge router giving the same degree of incremental accuracy as easily as the benchdog can. Sure, you do have to crank the benchdog up to change the bit, but mine moves so smoothly that it never has been a hinderance to me.

You have used the Benchdog/7518 combo before so you know what I mean, they are both quality pieces. But depending on your needs right now, you may be better off with the Freud for awhile.

If your like me you will easily find a reason to won two 3 1/4 HP routers. Later on you can get a benchdog and a 7518. This hobby will quickly become an obsession.

Here's the list of routers that I own. I can justify a need for each one of them (In my mind anyway). My wife quit asking why I bought another one she just gives me that "Not Again" look when the UPS truck drives up.
PC 7518 - router table
PC 690 fixed base - dedicated to the PC dovetail jig
PC 690 D-Handle - Most hand held work that doesn't require a plunge
PC690 Plunge - Hand held plunge work
Dewalt 621 plunge - dedicated to the EZ Smart SRK (smoothest plunge router I have ever handled).
Two Freud 1700's - As stated earlier, will be a double router table setup
PC 7310 laminate trimmer - laminate and other small edge bit jobs.
O'Malley 3 1/4HP (Their out of buisiness now, import junk but it gets the job done) - Dedicated to a track system for Dado and sliding dovetail work.

I am presently looking for a good deal on a Dewalt 625 to replace the O'Malley. I'll have to check out the Freud 3 1/4 HP more closely it may be a viable alternative the the Dewalt 625.

You see how it just keeps going and going.

[Brian Hale]

I had a Hitachi and Dewalt plunge in my first 2 router tables and managed fine for several years. Neither had above the table bit changes or a crank up top. I've now got the BenchDog with a Dewalt 618 in (PC 75182 will be under the Christmas tree ;) ) and I couldn't be happier. High quality American Made products tend to be expensive but you'll only cry once.

Question, do you need to mount this to a router plate? I'm wondering about the throat plates. In order to get the bit above the table you'll need a good sized opening won't you?

If you can swing it, go the BenchDog route.

Brian :)

[John Karam]

Well I just returned from the store, went to look at the FT3000 Router. I wanted to love it, but I don't. The big thing for me was the height adjustment. While the two employees I spoke with said I would manage the same accuracy that the bench dog can give, I felt it wouldn't be as smooth. The height adjustment wrench (what they call it) is small and since they didnt have one set into a table i was only able to play with the router on top of the display table. Turning the wrench felt like it would be annoying for major adjustments.

One employee called the Freud plunge router a Volkswagen to the Cadillac (bench dog). Though he did recommend the Freud because of the cost savings and overall quality, it being able to achieve the same goals.

Brian, they recommended placing it with a metal plate to prevent sagging, the Freud one they had was about $90. The plate does allow space to raise up the motor for bit change. By the way, those photos remind me of the good times when I access to a bench dog.

Paul, I know how it goes haha...always want another.

The store I went to is having Freud representatives next weekend so I am going to wait and see if they have the router under a table so I can get a real feel of how it will work. As of now however, I'm likely to go with the benchdog.

Once again, thanks for the opinions :)

[Brian Hale]

Amazon has the ProLift for $320 plus a 20% discount for a total of ~$256 with free shipping.

Not sure how long the discount will last.....

Brian.... who enjoys helping others spend money ;)

[Art Mann]

Regardless of the lift you choose, I recommend that you don't go with the wimpy Porter Cable 690. If the router won't do the job, it really doesn't matter how smoothly you can adjust it. After spending all that money on a super nice lift, it would be a shame to cripple your setup with a weak motor.

[John Karam]

Brian, thanks for the heads up but the only way I see that i could get the 20% is by purchasing "select power tools" Am I missing something? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005RKNW/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

Art, since I have the 690 I'm going to use it until I find a good deal on a 7518 (I know i just missed the amazon deal for about $240).

[John Scherzinger]

Brian, Pease tell us, how did you get that BEAUTIFUL polish on your ProLift???

[Thom Sturgill]

I don't have either router that you mention, but for what it's worth...
I have the PC893 fixed mount router mounted under my table. It has through-the-table adjustment with the adjuster labeled in 1/128th increments. That said, I've found that when raising the bit, the router does not come up straight and I have to apply pressure to one side of the bit. Its just enough of a PITA that I will probably buy a lift, its just not on the top of my wish list yet.

I doubt that ANY built in adjustment is going to be as smooth hanging upside down as is a lift designed for under the table use.

[Brian Hale]

John, sorry about that. Yes, you need to buy a power tool to get the discount and the cheapest one i found is

BK12208 4.8-Volt Ni-Cad Cordless Screwdriver


Unless you need something else.....

Mr. Scherzinger, all i did was wpie the dust off, really! The top plate of the ProLift is ~1/2" thick steel with a nickel plating. Real pretty but it actually looks better in the pictures.... :cool:

Brian :)

[Gary Keedwell]

John, sorry about that. Yes, you need to buy a power tool to get the discount and the cheapest one i found is

BK12208 4.8-Volt Ni-Cad Cordless Screwdriver


Unless you need something else.....

Mr. Scherzinger, all i did was wpie the dust off, really! The top plate of the ProLift is ~1/2" thick steel with a nickel plating. Real pretty but it actually looks better in the pictures.... :cool:

Brian :)
Brian...I have no reason to doubt you but I went to web site and couldn't find the specs for the plate thickness. Is it really a full 1/2" ( .500) thick?
Gary

[Brian Hale]

Actually it's about .471" thick. Looks like it started out as a 1/2" thick plate and was machined top and bottom for flatness and parallelism before plating.

Brian :)

[John Karam]

Thanks Brian for the clarification. Last night I was playing with it and found a $15 etcher that worked http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000302YN
and ordered the bench dog for a grand total of $271.85 w/ free shipping.

I also noticed that you can combine that drill with a blade and get the 20% for the blade promo, along with the 20% off from the power tool deal.

For instance, the Freud dado set for $200 can be ordered for $138 w/free shipping when bought with the drill (or anything else that in that deal).

Now the hunt begins for router :) Since ive got the attention, How much would you pay for a used PC 7519? This is the guy's description of it:

"$225, It is a 7519 - 3 1/4 horse, 15 amp motor. It has a base, but it is a bit tweeked a bit. The base could probably be fixed. It was broken and then re-welded. It does have the 1/2" collets. I do not have the wrenches, I just use a set that came with my other router."


Hope that amazon deal is good news to someone, and thanks for the thoughts on the router:)

[Gary Keedwell]

Actually it's about .471" thick. Looks like it started out as a 1/2" thick plate and was machined top and bottom for flatness and parallelism before plating.

Brian :)
LOL http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/evsac/Video/perfect10.gif Thanks Brian. Verniers never lie.

Gary

[Rob Will]

The only thought I have is that the Freud can be had for $130 at Woodcraft currently, which is only a bit higher than the PC 690, but with a lot more horsepower. Granted, I'm wondering how hard to handle that Freud would be hand held though.

Tom

Good question.
I have one of the new Freud routers. The side handles are very good and makes out-of-table operation no big deal.
Rob

[Paul Greathouse]

John,

Check Ebay, there are deals from time to time on 7518's and 7519's. Remember, if you buy a 7519 you will need a variable speed switch to run larger bits. The 7519 is a single speed router. I have seen 7519 go for under $200 on Ebay.

There is a seller on Ebay who's seller name is "Toolmamma" and their Ebay store is called "Big Leroys tool shack". They have a new 7518 motor auctioning right now. You can also call him. He is one of the few Ebay sellers that puts his phone number in his ads. I bought my Benchdog lift and a few other misc things from him. He is very reputable. He and his wife own and operate a woodworking tool store in Florida. His phone number is 239-565-4604 if you don't want to deal through Ebay. Give him a call, I'm sure he can fix you up with a decent deal at a fair price.

[John Karam]

Thanks Paul, good to know about the 7519 not being variable speed, I was going to offer him a lower price but I'm not interested now.

As for the ebay fellow, I'll look into what he has to offer.

Thanks again!

[Thomas Knighton]

Good question.
I have one of the new Freud routers. The side handles are very good and makes out-of-table operation no big deal.
Rob

Thanks Rob. Is this the FT3000VCE?

Thanks,
Tom

[Tim Marks]

This forum rocks. I was all set to pull the trigger on the cast iron Bench Dog router TS extension wing from Amazon... never noticed the "20% off combo" sale until I read it here... So now I add a $15 engraver to my order and I saved $60 off the router table.

Wow, I buy another engraver, then I can get the bench dog router lift for another $60 off (I think I just heard my credit card scream... or was that my wife...).

Back OT (more or less). I have a PC 890 series that I have used sans router lift below the table. It is kind of a pain in the neck. It has above table adjustments, which is nice... you can unlock it and raise or lower it, and relock it above the table. The problem is that when you relock it, the router height (at least on mine) drops by about 1/16" or so. So it is kind of a trial and error thing to get it the right height. I see a nice router lift in my future.

I was planning on buying the Woodpecker PRL, since I have a nice big woodpecker 53x32 router table with incra LS setup. Recently downsizing shop size has forced me to abandon my dedicated router table. I was going to buy a Woodpecker extension wing for my TS, but the bench dog has always been the "ultimate solution" in the back of my mind... I would just hate to stick a MDF table on my TS. But the Benchdog table would not support my Woodpecker router inserts. So back and forth I go...

Since I have an Incra LS system, I also considered swapping my stock Ridgid fence for the Incra TS fence (oh what a slippery slope I am on) so I could continue using my Incra 25" LS adjuster. Then I realized that to use my wonderfence, I would have to install it and remove it to swap back and forth from TS to router. What a pain. And I am VERY happy with my OEM fence, so it is pretty stupid to swap it out for a TS system that I have never really wanted and I don't really like having the big adjuster sticking off the side of my TS (did I mention the very small garage?). Not to mention that I do have the woodworker MATCHAMKER system for doing dovetails, so the Incra LS system has not been doing me a whole lot of good. Anybody want a Nice Woodpecker table with Incra 25" LS Wonderfence Super system... now it is going to be collecting dust in the corner for another 3 years.

So back OT again... since I have shifted back in favor of the Bench Dog router table, that makes me look at the Bench Dog router lift, which is a beautiful piece of equipment. YMMV, but I don't really think any bare router bolted to the bottom of the table will match the stiffness and accuracy of this router lift. If you don't like the idea of cranking it up for bit changes, then get a little electric screwdriver (as seen above), slot an allen wrench in it, and use that to speed the router lift up and down.